A less common but very effective way of gauging a region and its business schools suitability for your MBA plans is to understand how the Career Services departments there work, what is each schools department better at, whether the support they provide is what you will need and what type of jobs do they have a lead in over their competitor schools.
In the first of a three-part interview series with Career Services directors of three major Spanish b-schools, PaGaLGuY speaks to Rosie Innes, Associate Director of MBA Career Services at the Barcelona-based IESE Business School.
Ranked seventh in the Financial Times 2013 Global MBA Rankings and nineth in The Economist 2012 world MBA rankings, IESE is spread over two campuses within stones throw of each other in Barcelonas elite residential area of Pedralbes. From the top terrace of the newer campus building, you can get a breathtaking view of the entire Barcelona city angled wide until the Mediterranean Sea. In an MBA class size of 280, IESE boasts of an 80% international class with an average age of 28 years and drawn from more than 56 nationalities.
The EuroZone crisis has shunk the local job market and as a result, all Spanish schools are having to build corporate networks in newer continents such as Asia and Africa where their increasingly international classes can find jobs. My conversation with Rosie Innes is in this context.
Could you describe your and the Career Services departments role at IESE?
My main functions are, on the one hand, career management. This means designing a curriculum of activities such as different workshops to address each stage of a students career management. When people join this programme, it’s more about self-assessment and about focus. It’s about exploring the different options that they have in the market and preparing their brand, their CV, cover letter, pitch, interviews, etc. Then of course, at a later stage it would be more of strategies on how to approach the market and at a very later stage, how to negotiate your salary and what you need to do in the first 90 days to be successful at work.
What we do is set up a series of activities throughout the MBA programme to address each of these stages. Some of the activities are fixed from year to year. So we’ve negotiated specific days for doing those in the programme. For example, yesterday we had the second workshop for the first year batch which was more about the basic structure of what, where and how. The workshop focussed more on the ‘where’, that is after your self-assessment is done, where do you want to apply your skills, strengths and values and how do you get it. It’s a lot about job search strategy.
We also have an online platform so that if the students happen to be on holiday or they are in some other country to study an elective, they can also access this information so that they don’t necessarily need an actual meeting with our department to get this advice. This platform is accessible from the moment they join the programme to when they leave. And it is an e-learning platform, so it combines advice and it also has a lot of exercises they can do to prepare their interviews or to understand what their values are or even to negotiate their salary. So that would be the second pillar of what we do at career management.
The third is one-on-one career counselling. It’s completely unlimited; if somebody wants to meet us 30 times, we can do that. We divide career counselling into two areas – if somebody really doesn’t really know what they want to do, we have two people in the department specifically for that. We give them exercises, to help them focus and once they are focussed, we would counsel them with more industry advice and careers in a specific sector. In terms of career management, those are the three pillars – workshop, the platform and the career counselling.
My other role is to be in charge of a sector. What I do is spend my time developing relations with different organisations working with the development sector to understand their recruitment needs and then connect them to the students that are interested in the sector. For example, Financial Times is launching a challenge together with the Global Fund for Children. So I’m getting in touch with them to see how we can promote this challenge to our students. If I see interesting job postings, I approach the companies. Or we have a list of impact investment funds and I have to contact them to know whether they have any needs and whether we can advertise those to our students. There’s a whole logistical side to it as well which is the job posting, companies coming on campus, etc. But a lot of it is basically developing relationships to really understand what companies need, to better advise students and then connect them with specific job opportunities.
Could you describe how a typical job search goes for a student in the IESE MBA programme? When does it start, when does the Career Services department kick in? Which are the different types of job seekers?
We have a very tailored approach because you can imagine that some people come in with a very focussed idea of what they want to do. For those type of people, it’s much more proactive in terms of connecting them with specific opportunities. Often people have an initial idea of what they want to do. Then they join the programme and quickly get confused because too many opportunities open up suddenly. Normally, they start (with Career Services) in September and have a very basic career workshop. Very quickly in October, we have our first career forum. There, we have over 45 companies coming on campus which gives you a very wide range. You thought that you wanted investment banking but suddenly, a seed company, GE or a pharma company is on campus. We ask students to go to at least three presentations a day to force them into opening up their options. So there is a first stage where the world opens up and then you decide that of all these opportunities, what are the ones that fit me rather than going for everything. In November, the dust starts to settle and people start clarifying themselves again. Companies have a very structured MBA recruitment and have a specific timeline for doing it. Usually the recruitment season for first year batch kicks off in November which is mainly investment banking and consulting. The first round of interviews is in January.
For fulltime MBA, the career forums are recruitment events. For the first year students, it’s more of ‘let’s see what’s out in the market’ and the recruitment kicks in afterwards. It’s more of going to presentations, understanding what they’re looking for, what kind of opportunities are on offer and the career paths they have. For them, it’s an exercise in exploration and opening of minds. For second year students, it’s pure recruitment. Usually, companies put up job postings beforehand. The hortlists are made and the actual career forum interviews take place. We had more than 600 interviews in October over three days. We’ve got one this February 5 and 6 where we’ll organise more interviews.
How much of the recruitment happens through campus and how much through a students own networks?
Generally speaking, the number of students that get placed through our department is over 70%. Last year it was 70 and it can go up to 85% depending on the market. Career Services like to address the structured part of the market.
Two things are happening. MBAs are becoming much more diverse in terms of what they want from their careers and a lot of the things they want don’t have a structured MBA recruitment strategy. So, the students will have to network for that opportunity because these companies are going to come on campus. Private equity is a classic example. They won’t be coming to recruit on a massive scale the way investment banks do. So, there are sectors where students have to network their way in. FMCG is another example. FMCG companies are getting talent at the undergraduate stage and from their competition. Although some people in FMCG might have an MBA, their numbers are small in comparison to the size of the market. If you want to get into FMCG, you cannot wait for them to come on campus because that’s not how they recruit. So 30% is a combination of people who know that what they want is not what we can do for them. And then for students who don’t get in through the campus recruitment, they have to find other means to get in.
Does Career Services also participate in the admissions process at IESE?
We do, but not a 100% because we don’t have the time. We do a lot of interviews for them and then if they have a doubt in terms of career goals, they’ll send an application to us. Because we do have a responsibility to our students as they make huge investments (to study with us). So you want to make sure that the people you’re admitting have a chance of an exit from the MBA.
Do you look at the stated goals in the application essays and provide your assessment to the admissions team about how practical that goal would be?
Yes, we tend to do that during the admissions interview. We tend to be pretty realistic in what the students can fulfil so that they come with their eyes open in terms of how probable their plans would be. For example, getting into management consulting is highly competitive in all business schools and very difficult. If you come in here convinced that you’ll get into McKinsey, but it’s our role to say: have a Plan B because it might not happen. If you’re so great, it can. But maybe not too. So we’re happy to admit you but we can’t guarantee that you’ll get into McKinsey. We also do open days where we have presentations. People ask questions and we’re very realistic in what really can happen for them.
If you find an unrealistic expectation in an application, would that lead to an admission rejection?
It wouldn’t lead to a straight rejection. There are various factors for admitting a candidate. For us, the personal qualities are absolutely essential. We interview by specific competencies and to see whether the person really has the competencies that he needs for the MBA. But we don’t interview 100% of the candidates who apply to us, unlike many other schools.
How has the role of Career Services changed in the last five years in light of the financial crises in various regions of the world?
The essential role hasn’t changed that much. We first changed our strategy post the dotcom bubble burst (in 2002). We changed the structure of the department from being geographically-focussed to being sector-specific-focussed. From then on, the structure and philosophy of the department hasn’t changed much. At that time, we decided that the world had become a different place and the concept of a ‘job for life’ was gone. Our mission was to provide people with lifelong career skills because people may change jobs upto 14 times in their life. If you’re only placing people, you’re not preparing them for potential redundancy which may happen due to another financial crisis.
This workshop was very much about that. When you graduate, you won’t have any career services department helping you find a job. We’ve stepped up on two things. One is that as a department, we have to do a lot of business development to provide the same number of opportunities to students. Business development is a top priority for us. On the other hand, the career management side has become much more important. Before, the market absorbed people naturally. If you weren’t that good at the job search, even then eventually the market would absorb you. That doesn’t happen now. We transmit the message that you cannot go to an interview unprepared. You’re burning an opportunity. What do you need to do to prepare so that you put yourself in the best possible light to make sure that you’re selected? Those are the two things that we are doing. Earlier, you sent a standard cover letter and because you were an IESE MBA, it was enough. Now you have to go that extra mile.
Have you had to increase your teams presence in newer geographies to network with new employers because jobs in your traditional strongholds and in Europe have reduced?
Yes and no. In Latin America, it’s a no. We’re the Harvard of the Spanish-speaking world and our brand presence is really strong with a lot of sister schools. We’ve always had a person who travels to Latin America and develops business there. For Asia, yes, as it’s a relatively new market. We’ve got somebody in India and Singapore who does business development for us apart from us travelling there if it’s relevant to our sector.
We have to do a lot more there because to be honest, IESE is not that well known there. We are making sure to visit companies so they know who we are and what is special about an IESE MBA.
How has the composition of the IESE MBAs geographical job destinations changed since the 2008 financial crisis?
Before, most Latin Americans wanted to spend some time in Europe before going back. Clearly, at the moment it’s not too much of an option for them. At the same time, there are some fantastic opportunities in Latin America. If you kick off your career in a growing market, you’re going to grow with the market. Your level of progression is going to be faster so it makes much more sense that a 100% of Latin Americans are going back to their home region. Not only that, because these markets are growing so quickly, there’s such a lack of talent that companies are desperate for people from abroad. For the first time in the last couple of years, we have people who are not Latin Americans who are going to Latin America. For the moment, language is still important so the Portuguese are going to Brazil; the Spaniards are going to Mexico, Chile, Peru, etc. That’s something which is new and interesting. You can see this at the career forum. We have a Mexican bank coming in February; in September we had a Brazilian cement company and a Chilean insurance company. These companies are stepping up their MBA recruitment because there is such a lack of talent there. Not enough Chileans might be going to business schools so they need more people because it’s a growing market.
How’s Asia working out?
Asia’s still a challenge for us. It’s not happening the same way. We are placing people in Asia but it’s still a challenge because of the business development side. It still needs to kick off.
What about international students who are not from Latin America, such as Asians? Are they still expecting to work in Europe?
Yes they are. It’s on two counts. One, they feel that the best practises are still in Europe so you can learn and develop here. Second is the salary issue. Most people come here on loans so they need to have a salary to pay their loan and also earn. The rate is 50%. Half the people get placed in Europe and the other half go back. But then, a lot of Asians who come to IESE are from family businesses. So they come in for an MBA to acquire skills with an idea of going back to the family business. Philipinos, Indians as well. Amazon is a huge recruiter for Europe; most of it is in technology. Germany has a highly skilled intake and Switzerland, Luxembourg are easier to get work permits in as compared to the US.
Do you get a sense that students have reconciled to the changing economic environment? Do they have realistic expectations or do you have to set some expectations right?
As a department, we are the messengers of reality which is not always the most popular thing. My basic message is: if you prepare, you’ll get it. One is to identify where your competitive advantage is. As an Indian student going for a same opportunity as a Spaniard for a job in Spain, you’re not going to have a hope in hell. If you were going for a Spanish company that was looking to develop business in India, you would have a huge competitive advantage because you know the language, you know how things work and you can offer something which a Spaniard would take 25 years to understand if he were to live there and understand the culture, etc. It’s basically being clever about the niche opportunities. Where can you as a candidate have something that a standard candidate won’t have. This is our basic message.
If you go in for a programme where a thousand Europeans are applying and you require an Europen Union work permit, it’s going to be very difficult. What is it about you to make them forget about the other thousand Europeans and go for you? As I say, if there are opportunities where you have a particular advantage, you should go for them.
How do you see this advice changing once the economy improves? Will IESE come back to the original situation where most of the jobs will be in Europe? Would you continue to do business development in India, Singapore, etc for job opportunities there?
Absolutely, because our strategy as a school is to be global. When I started here in 1998, because I was in Executive Education before I joined Career Services, the school was pretty much focussed on Europe. We had our sister schools in Latin America. But IESE has a very clear global proposition now. You can see it by the partnerships we have in China. We have partnerships in Amsterdam, Africa and that will stay for sure.
The other thing is that we will not go back to the traditional MBA recruitment. That will be driven by student desires and not by us or the market. People’s desires are changing. The number of people wanting to do investment banking has gone down. People’s career choices and paths post-MBA are changing. As a department, that presents a challenge in the sense that the new companies are not traditional MBA hirers. The only thing you can do is prepare your students well for the market.
Has the amount of time that students spend during their course in looking for a job increased? Has it eaten into the academic coursework time?
There’s always a healthy tension between the academic requirement of the programme and the career. We do emphasise on the career but for us, the major thing people are paying for is the academic excellence. There is a high emphasis on academics which doesn’t always leave an awful lot of time for the job side. The second year is much better. For the last two years, we had negotiated with the MBA programme managers and gotten Fridays off which never happened before. They had classes every single day but now, Friday is the day they can utilise to address career management issues. The first year is highly intensive. It is difficult but we have two career workshops and a mock interview event as part of the programme. It’s a full day that is dedicated to the event. At the moment, we are negotiating what we will have next year because we would like more time and more things integrated into the career programme so that people don’t leave it as a sideline. Things are actually integrated to force people to address various career issues by certain times. But it’s always a challenge because in the end, students are also judged on their elective hours and they want to make sure that they cover every aspect of general management. It’s a difficult thing to negotiate.
What’s the most misunderstood belief about the job of the Career Services department that students hold?
All Career Services departments have a challenge in the sense that it’s a bit of a thankless job. If people get a job, it’s thanks to them and if they don’t, it’s our fault. That’s the way it is. I think the most misunderstood thing is, understanding that we actually address a very specific part of the market and in that we are very good. In comparison to our competition, we do it very well. But that doesn’t cover the whole world. If people understand what we can do for them, they can use us for that but that doesn’t mean they can’t do everything else. For example, if you do want a job in private equity, sitting and waiting for Career Services to do something about it is not understanding reality. Because PE firms don’t recruit like that. They’re very small organisations with very little rotation and people get jobs through networking. This is what people need to understand.
If you want a job in the film industry, you won’t have film production companies coming on campus. Maybe only at UCLA (California, USA) because they’re right next door but they don’t take MBAs. Or advertising agencies. They don’t come on campus either. Students need to understand what we can do them and what we can’t.
Do you have a competitive strategy against the other top b-schools in Spain when it comes to getting job opportunities for your students?
I don’t think so. The neighbouring
Dos IESE provide career support after graduation?
We support recent graduates until a year after graduation. People who graduated in May, we support them until they find a job. After that, they go to the alumni services department who have job boards. It’s much more generalistic, not sector specific. Integrated career services are offered more when you’re a student. When you graduate, you have access to job boards. If you want, as an alumnus you can for ask an appointment with professors who act as professional coaches.