[holika_thats me]

Originally Posted by Apurv

What amazing_maverick writes is mostly true. Let me add my perspective of the same points he puts forward.

1. The quality drop after roughly the Top-10 b-schools is HUGE. The really rockstar faculty teaches in maybe the Top odd 10, after which the quality reduces considerably. More than that, the quality of students too takes a major beating. The b-schools itself restrict any growth of students because of their single-minded focus of creating 'employable' students at the cost of many other important aspects of maturity. Not only are the curruculums completely designed on industry feedback, other things like the leeway allowed to students on the campus too get influenced by some random thing some company will fill in the placements feedback form. As a result some b-schools have extremely random and shady rules like not allowing mobile phones on campus, restrictions on sleep hours, food, etc etc for people with average age of 23 years. The environment is pretty much regressive in b-schools. Very few people come out 'enriched' - though all of them have a higher paying job. Voila.

2. This is true for any institution of society, not just colleges.: Most people at large are sheep. They will suck up to every avenue that promises them short term gratification. Whether it is for grades, appraisals at the workplace, relationshps, etc etc. Mediocrity is the way of life for a lot of things out there. Even in the US b-schools, the standards drop steeply after the top 5 or 6 b-schools. Of course, even after the drop in standards their top 20 or 30 b-schools manage to be better than ours.

3. B-schools in general are not for idealistic people. There are very few b-schools in the country where the environment and administration lets you be. With the exception of the older IIMs and a handful others, there is heavy peer pressure on 'fitting in' and generally tending to the average mediocrity index of the class. People on the outliers are ostracized through many methods.

If your tolerance level of these things is not high, don't join a b-school - you will either end up being greatly disappointed - or discard your ideals for new ones. People try to justify it by calling themselves all sorts of corporate adjectives like 'dynamic' - which is just a euphemism for being malleable as well as ductile as people.

4. Even though I have written about all these negative things of b-schools, you ought to realise that you don't really have a choice if all you're looking for is a cheap MBA degree. If you really want a GREAT education, take greater risks and apply to the really good schools in Europe or US. You always have a choice.

But if all you want is Rs 11 lakh CTC at the cost of Rs 7 lakh in fee and 2 years of your life, don't expect Ivy League standards or anything near it.

5. Online forums are often haunted by b-school PR teams who only tell you what they want you to hear but only to an extent. You can get past it by (1) asking the right questions and (2) using Forums in the right manner. Don't just use Forums merely like a Question and Answer platform. Make friends on the forums in b-schools and gain perspectives by closer engagement with people. On Pagalguy, you still have people from the IIMs logging in regularly, though they might not be posting as much. Catch hold of these guys and ask for their perspectives. People around here go out of their way to help. Also like amazing_maverick said, consult b-school alumni. Once people pass out of a b-school, their passion levels for the alma mater generally come down and they are able to provide a more objective opinion than currently studying students.

Cheers and all the best!

Heyyy..... As a person who's paid in her first installment in a not-so-good B-School...let me tell you,these posts have been terrifying!!!! But I have one thing to ask.... the above quote talks about quality drop after the first 10 colleges and those looking for a cheap MBA and stuff....but what if you don't have a choice???
To cite my example, I come from an arts background and now i want to go on to HR hopefully...but since I don't have any qualifications presently ,i can't get employment right now in the field. So work experience followed by a uk/US education without work ex is not really feasible. So , we come down to Indian B-Schools.... what if you don't do that well in their entrances? or worst, as is my case, you don't make it through the GD/PI? Is it a wrong decision to go for the college you get through or is it advisable to go through the cat/xat routine again instead of "settling" for a college?
I look forward to your advise!

[amazing_maverik]

Hi,
Its not advisable to join just any B-School for the sake of joining.Believe me in my B-School which is supposed to be in the Top 15,people have gone for their internships without any stipend & that too in non-descript companies.You can write a mail to AICTE.Believe me, a few mails like that may just make the difference.I'm in favour of doing courses in Government Institutions(May not be the case in Undergrad colleges but here sadly true )

Originally Posted by holika_thats me

Heyyy..... As a person who's paid in her first installment in a not-so-good B-School...let me tell you,these posts have been terrifying!!!! But I have one thing to ask.... the above quote talks about quality drop after the first 10 colleges and those looking for a cheap MBA and stuff....but what if you don't have a choice???
To cite my example, I come from an arts background and now i want to go on to HR hopefully...but since I don't have any qualifications presently ,i can't get employment right now in the field. So work experience followed by a uk/US education without work ex is not really feasible. So , we come down to Indian B-Schools.... what if you don't do that well in their entrances? or worst, as is my case, you don't make it through the GD/PI? Is it a wrong decision to go for the college you get through or is it advisable to go through the cat/xat routine again instead of "settling" for a college?
I look forward to your advise!

[CodeGuy]

What i dont understand (rather cant digest) is that why do IIT engineers for for a Management degree i mean come on they have done thier engeering from a top engeering college in india they have got the imparted the skills for 4 years and at the end they just change thier stream totally. Whats the point in wasting the seat at IIT when u are not even interested to pursue an engeering carrer. Also why is CAT is much bending so much towards math.

No offense to anyone but atleast the skills imparted should be used at the right place.

[holika_thats me]

How are governement institutions more preferable in terms of better internships and placements?Also, the internship scenario you are talking about is true for even the best of MBA schools due to recession ,right? or is that the scene every year?

Also, How important is the tag of a top-15 b-school ? Its significant at the level of your first job and prob first year of work, but after that it's about how good you are at your work right? Or even then, is preference given to people who come from bigger,better institutions?

And i guess the reason engineering people opt for MBA is a case of getting sick of Engineering and realising that it's not something they want to do...Believe me, I understand that feeling although iam from an arts background, and not Engg !!

[maxell]

Originally Posted by holika_thats me

Is it a wrong decision to go for the college you get through or is it advisable to go through the cat/xat routine again instead of "settling" for a college?
I look forward to your advise!

Even though what maverick and apurv write is true, we have to think rationally about the fact that how many students do the top 10 Bschools admit? An approximate figure would be 2000(for the IIMs) + 300(XLRI - not sure about XL) + 75(FMS) + 200(IIFT) +... = roughly around 4000-5000 maximum.

Now the question arises, do we have only these many people aspiring to pursue the course?

Clearly, there is a HUGE difference between the burgeoning demand and the miniscule supply of decent education. Thus, all of the people who fall out of this 4-5k bracket have to be very clear about why they want to jump in.

This, in no way makes the other colleges absolutely forbidden territory. Here, judicious choice of a Bschool weighing all your options is necessary. For example, if u are a grad with commerce/arts zero workex, any decent Bschool ought to do you good if you dont have a job in hand. If you are a fresher with an engg background, you might want to evaluate your decision a bit more carefully, as you are changing lines - from a purely technical stream of work, you are jumping into something else. For commerce/arts people there is some semblance of continuity - they olready have studied stuff and will get the same kind of jobs or growth when they start working(even quite a number of subjects in MBA are already known to them).

However, as a person with workex, I think your choices tend to become more concentrated... because you have a decent option of NOT pursuing an MBA too. Then you might want to wait another year. But again, its not going to get any easier. Its only going to get tougher, year by year, for those top 10 B schools.

IMHO, the insights by mave and Apurv are meant to enlighten us, so that we really know that life is not going to be a piece of cake. But this doesnt mean that we will surely end up as dejected/frustrated individuals.

All of us are fighters, aren't we ?

[jayaram85]

Looks like every ones having more or less same opinion about B schools and engineers etc. Well let me tell you something. Being an engineer from one of the top colleges( NIT WARANGAL it is usually in the 8-12 ranks in the country) i would say one thing. No engineer gets hands on experience on technical jobs but for some few lab sessions were students give money to the attender and get the job done. Believe me its the case. 95% of the class studies just 2-3 days before the exam and those who study regularly( i was until i got placed in final yr ) are labeled as frustoos, dumb people who cant assimilate things in 2-3 days. I believe that unless you study regularly u cant understand real engineering may be u can manage 70% marks but such a person fumbles in a real tech interview cos his fundas are not there. This happens in all engg colls especially the IITs which are supposed to provide the best engineers in the country.

Now these top engineers having cracked an exam like IITJEE, AIEEE or state level entrance exams dont find it difficult to get thru the quant and DI of CAT. Moreover they prepare for GRE which makes them good enough for English. So all these so called enginners vent out thier EGO on a monster called CAT. Those who dont make the cut during final yr at coll take up their jobs ( like mee) slog for another 1-2 attempts and finally make it thru. The 2nd case is better because they actually know wats happening in a corporate scenario were as a fresher is purely blank on such aspects. They do an MBA just for the sake of it. The whole problem lies in the way our education system is composed of. I would say that 90% of the people writing CAT just do it for the sake of EGO satisfaction ( including me) NOTHING ELSE MATTERS

[meshed]

Originally Posted by ameya_ahr

Okay before i begin .. i must tell you that i really do not have time to be typing all this ,. but am doing this only to make sure that no aspirant gets misguided .. and since link to this thread was sent to me by one of my closest friends .. who is also an aspirant .. i felt even a greater

need to reply ..
First my intro .. I am in IMT Ghaziabad .. Finance (It really was the hottest choice when we

started our MBA journey..but I did have my own reasons for taking it up.. anyway) ..( Batch

of 2010 ) .. and i am not in our Media committee .. i am in International Relations .. (And

boy do we rock ! -- sorry for surrogate marketing . .lol ) ..
anyway ..
so first of all "the truth" ...
What the 1st guy (i think mavrick . .) said is absolutely true .. the life in a b-school is tough

.. in fact CAT and GD PI is the easiest thing of the whole story ... it really is not for those

weak at heart .. Now talking about the truth .. i have been through almost everything .. and

maybe more of what maverick talked about .. failing in relationships.. getting annoyed by

the buttering .. crying in loneliness when u're surrounded by 100s of people .. feeling that

this whole MBA thing is a big hoax and nothing else .. all of this .. and most importantly .. i

have been disturbed by the mere amount of alcohol and smoke that Bschoolers find around

them .. (this is true for all Bschools) and being a teetotaller is a little hard (I havent given

up.. still a teetotaller.. lol ) .. anyway ..
but the good point is . . once you are engulfed into this whole experience .. you realize that

everyone .. YES .. everyone goes through these feelings .. and there is some sort of

disturbance in someone's life .. no matter how great it looks from outside .. and this is

where you start to learn to deal with all the problems .. you start to realize that corporate

life is going to be even more demanding .. even more hard to believe .. and even less value

adding than you think it will be ..
and this is when u need to step up and decide for urself .. what are you going to do with

your life ? and the moment you see that phase coming to you in a bschool you will have

accomplished what you started out for.. many people go out of bschool without having

experienced this .. and they surely keep failing till they do . and this is irrespective of the

bscool u r coming from..
maybe all this was a little too hard to comprehend ..
let me put it in simpler words..
life for me, in my 2nd term was really hard .. all these aforementioned feelings started to

haunt me day after day .. till i cracked ! one day my roomie entered the room only to see

half of the room on the floor and half the stuff broken .. that was me .. in utter frustration !

but then came the third term, where my life changed in a big way.. now i am in control of

how i spend 19 hours of my day (6 hours of classes in college) .. and now i really feel that i

am "IN CONTROL" of not only my present .. but also my future.. i could not have done this

withoutt IMT .. and without my peers.. (a lot of whom,initially, i hated from bottom of my

heart) .. i already know what i want from my life, how i am going to achieve it .. and all the

things feel like falling in place .. day after day .. week after week .. life has surely become

harder .. i only get to sleep for 4-5 hours a day at the most .. and still the work does not

seem to end .. and am sure all tthis will pay off one day .. in fact .. as i type this my nose is

running .. i have fever .. out of over exertion .. but what the hell .. i aint stoppping for

anything or anybody ..
I only hope that I keep going on .. and that my peers in my college start feeling the same

way . the peer learning would reach new heights ! and trust me, going by what our faculty

says, finance (they say) is the best class in the batch .. and yes.. i have surely seen the

toughest of competitors in my class.. and yes, surely. . many have lost track .. just like

maverik has .. just like I had (in the past) .. but the day this will change for them would be the one they'll remember for the rest of their lives..

All the best .. I hope u tried to understand what i have written .. although i know a bit of it was out there .. and abstarct but it was about feelings .. so it had to be that way ..
Got a lot of work .. may not even return to this thread now ..
So cheers. and all the best .. Maverick .. buddy i hope you find direction in this maddening world of a bschool soon .. i can feel you.. all the best ..

Interesting write-up.

But you make it look like you were transformed overnight - from a miserable wreck - into a trouncing champion! I really do not believe such makeovers can happen instantaneously - so if you could please explain what made you like the bad bad world outside all of a sudden - I would be grateful.

[ameya_ahr]

Originally Posted by meshed

Interesting write-up.

But you make it look like you were transformed overnight - from a miserable wreck - into a trouncing champion! I really do not believe such makeovers can happen instantaneously - so if you could please explain what made you like the bad bad world outside all of a sudden - I would be grateful.

@maverick:
I have been charged by you for surrogate mktg. Except for mktg International relations of IMT (which i accepted followed by a ) , i havent marketed anything.. Have been a responsible Puy till date...(numbers speak for themselves)... only making sure people are not misguided by any toms and harrys around. (P.S. This is not a reference to you. I do believe that you are a strong character, only pretty dissatisfied).

@all

Anyway, so I'll not bring in my college anywhere. Lets just assume that I am in a "B" Grade college.. as maverick likes to call it .. I say, why even "B" .. lets say an "F" grade college. Alright ? Now hoping that I have satisfied Mav's ego, i'll come to the point and answer the very justifiable question asked by Meshed.

The change ..

The change in me was surely not an overnight change. I must admit here that some catalysts for the change are things which are really personal. Was seeing someone who wasn't from India & for that matter, had left the country. It was hard to keep going on sitting here 7000 kms away, and spending nights on skype with the pressure of CFA mounting by the day, was just not an option. The time that I decided that I had to get out of it, was really important to me. I objectively thought what I wanted to do and where I was. I connected well with some of my classmates and discussed my situation with them. & They helped me big time!! I must make a mention here of one of my classmates, who's a CA ... a very successful person in his own right.. left KPMG (now u know how successful...) .. has worked for hedge funds for 2 years.. etc etc. We all naturally respect him a lot.. and he surely helped me come back on track . . helped me garner the competitive spirit that he had seen in me when i joined the college and which had apparently gone out the window in a few months after that. I stopped networking with "junta" and made sure that I was always around with the people i really respected and cared for. And also realized that it was important to have 3 good friends than "networking" with 300 others .. (not to say that it's not important..but u need to strike a balance which was missing in my life) ..
A simple & passing advice from a senior also helped me realize that it was important to listen to what the teachers said in class. Although i have always been the bloke sittin on the last bench dozing off all my life (including training in IBM) i thought, if i am trying out new things, then i might as well, listen to the "crap" the profs churned out. Boy! and was i wrong.. Come to think of it, if u "actually" listen to what he's saying, it's not "crap" ! it does make sense !! and makes more sense if you listen to 3-4 consecutive classes, without bunking/dozing off in any of them.. a class in as clichéd (personal opinion) a subject like HR mgmt, was so damn interesting !! Industry relations, a topic cant get simpler than this . . however, u can understand the nuances, only when you listen to the prof (unless u love reading course books. .which i frankly would rather avoid in favour of listening to profs) ...
Also, what helped was to bring in some discipline in my rogue lifestyle .. and one pretty irrelevant thing, also helped me .. that was in.com .. having access to CNBC all the time .. it was a gift !! {P.S. Yeah!! .. maverick . i am marketing TV 18 now . . } {wait, am i doing my internship in Network 18 ?? }

Anyway, I really am keeping busy these days .. in my "B Grade" Bschool ..(man, at least call it "A-" if not "A" or "A+" !! lol .. ) just came here to reply cuz one of my friends actually called me up to send in a reply .. Am unsubscribing from this thread. Hope i have been of some help to at least some of you .. look at things positively. You get respect if you do well in what you do.. and that helps a lot! .. you dont need to be in the "most powerful committee" of any college (if there's any such thing, per se) ..
:no offense intended anywhere:
:Would love to read mav's reply sometime later: he clearly is an ivy league guy !! Aren't you mav ?
:Peace:

[hiteshchadha]

Hi Guys,

I really like the dicussion going here. I think a lot of honest confessions being made. I am also presently in the same environment and dealing with similar situations. I would like to present my take on this 2 years of Bschool journey.

I had a work ex of 4+ years before I started my MBA. Let me tell you guys it is a completely different thing. For me it took 2 full trimesters to get to the groove of serious studies. I presently consider myself quite "settled" in the environment. Few observations-

1. Yes inspite of having 200 people around you this place can be lonely. So you should be able to decide with whom you want to "invest" your time.
2. For me it was a cultural shock when I landed up here. When you are working then people around are bounded by the company rules in terms of behaviour. So they have the boundaries defined. However when you come to a Bschool all sorts of people behave in all sorts of irrational ways.

So it is important to set the boundaries with these people. You cannot let them get to your nerves.

3. While working I had learned that how effective and popular you are depends on how you are performing in your job. The rule doesn't changes over here. No matter whatever you do, no matter how many extra curricular activities you participate in, you can gain respect in your peer group only if you are performing in your studies. So grades are important. However you need to decide either you want o be among the top or get a very good grade with participation in other activities.

4. Here every Tom D_ _ _ and Harry claims to be a bond in something or the other. People are crazy to gain recognition in anyway or the other. However the downside of that is that if you fall then everyone will know abt it very quickly. So try to keep a low profile with focus on quality of work you are doing which will be a value add to you in future.

5. Talking about relationships guys please don't be fooled by the opposite sex. They are also smart people. You will never know when you are being used liked a tissue and thrown away. So "choose" your opposite sex friends and maintain a healthy relationship. I beleive that only less than 1% of he relationships started in a Bschool goes life long way. So just remember you are here to get your MBA, get a job and get out of here. Please do not indulge in bride searching here.

6. Lastly things can become so depressing that you start hating this place very badly. So recreation is very important aspect. Indulge in whatever you like to do best. Be it gamming, movies or anything else. That will keep your enthusiasm going.

This is what I do. Always at the beggining of a trimester I starts a reverse countdown of the days. This will help you focus better on things because you know that after X number of days you will get a break from this place.

Cheers
Hitesh

[apatchofsnow]

A lot has to do with our own expectations.

We need to be clear about our goals and we need an idea of what we as individuals want to be 5,10 years down the line. Whether or not a particular B School fits in depends on those plans. If I want to become a consultant or an I Banker, I have absolutely no chance if I goto a school outside the top 10.

Also the opportunities that one gets at a top B school is much higher.
A lot has already been said about the quality of faculty. Even within the IIMs, some IIMs are finding it difficult to retain and recruit good faculty.A lot of competitions/contests/events conducted by companies are open only to students of top B schools.

Having said that, I strongly believe what we do at a B School is as important in fact more important than what the B school does to us. Getting into a B School is only the beginning of a long journey.Its at best a pit stop. Problems arise when people dont realize that and harbor multi million dollar dreams without being rooted to reality.