IIM Final Placement Figures : To Reveal Or Not To Reveal Is The Question

[convolutedsignal]

So the point remains, some IIMs have understood that learning is more important than the extra dollar which is anyway spent in paying the fees of cardio surgeons.

LOL. "Learning" is more important than placements in IIML. :O ? Dude, Come on!! And what does an extra dollar earned by an IIM grad have ANYTHING to do with a cardio-surgeon.! Very very uncharacteristic post. Also we may have the red flags here, but doesn’t your diro wave the saffron flag!

Another member joins the Rejected-by-B-hence-took-up-C-now-hate-B club! Your comments were as expected

You can do better than that freak! For starters why don’t you go to your admissions office and find out how many people who had a choice between B&C chose B. Also while you are at it, try to understand how many in your ‘lone B call’ batch actually had IIMC calls.. The numbers speak for themselves don’t they. I of course cannot post them in a public forum, but will be more than glad to share it with you privately.
And yes, if I had a choice to join B, I would have and it was definitely not because B was a ‘better’ school. :P

To me it boils down to this – Last year everyone here knows that IIMB’s Gaurav Agarwal had the highest salary of $193k from Barclays , London for the role of associate.

Everyone here again would have heard of the $250k offer 2 IIMCians bagged this year.
Now can anyone here name the bank, students or role? So is there a security problem-NO. Is there a confidentiality breach-NO.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that IIMB had its fingers rather badly burnt by the Gaurav Agarwal episode where even personal emails were leaked to the press last year and led to the resignation (for personal reasons of course) of the placement head. Now as in every good Indian governmental organization the tendency is to the other extreme - Non disclosure!! IIMB has always been extremely media friendly and to see the lecture on confidentiality breach and security seems funny now. In fact every report about non disclosure of IIMB salaries carries the 193k and 30 lakh Indian offer as a footnote.

Non disclosure of placement salaries is a nice strategic move to ‘differentiate’ oneself from the competitors but it fails miserably as a moral science/ethical treatise. Even the IIM aspirants above can see through it.

[DesiGuru]

Firstly... Whatever be the truth... the moral of the story is if you are unwilling to reveal your average salary then everyone is free to assume that your placement got screwed...

So maybe the placements at the IIMs are not going as well as before and they need to cover up... And suddenly B and L decide to go SILENT ! You can never say can you

And Yes! IIMC has decided that it will infact release the numbers... Lets see if they do... If they dont then well even IIMC is chicken along with B and L. I will say it right here If IIMK released their numbers its because their numbers look good at above 12 Lakh average... Why wouldnt they not want to reveal the Doctor's name who got special treatment from Mckinsey... They went right ahead. Atleast I am going to assume that both B and L average salary is less than IIMK unless they release it...

Ofcourse everyone is free to make their opinions and even if you think its lesser its for u decide whether it matters at all or not... But the freedom to avail that data is the right of any aspirant and denying that is just using the monopoly power given to you by the government... And I dont know what this "not releasing data" is really because economic times had B's highest salary at $220K... A at something similar and C at $250K. So I guess its ok to release some good news but hide the bad news at the average salary levels... As i said earlier, the lack of data almost always means the hiding of bad news... Atleast I think so

K

[shyamslash]

it seems like a great initiative by b and l in theory, but dont think it will serve much purpose if all the other iims follow through. The fact is when every single college advertises its numbers... and lets face it that placement numbers play a huge role in choice of insti, and also the headlines in newspapers with salary figures being the best free publicity iims get... colleges will succumb formally or thru informal leaks... and so if its gonna get leaked out, so why not formally announce it...it could be good in theory because like orca said the tier n+1 coll fudge nos. to get to tier n who further have to be inventive to maintain parity. So in theory if all colleges follow this, there might be something in it, but dont see that happening in a TOI driven, money loving India( that we are all happily part of)

[j0]

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

All foreign Bschools do release their Average, Median and even highest salary thru the campus placement route... Maybe it doesnt become news their like here but if you want to know you will come to know what it is through their brochures etc... Other off the table salaries are not disclosed if specially requested by students... If our IIMs think they are some kinda special system of Bschools that they dont need to be transparent you can only blame... well... maybe the Nehru-Gandhi parivar and this stupid idea of IIT/IIMs all over the planet

K

Well I don't have much to contribute here, but let me just express my unbounded joy at the fact that the National Waste Theory still lives on in the oldest national waste site of them all.

As far as disclosure of salaries goes, if there was a credible mechanism where inquisitive little souls could easily get clear details about the take home, variable, CTC, perks etc about different profiles offered by the companies, then we could start harping on the transparency factor of releasing student salaries.

I know that IIFT being sarkari has some stringent red tape that isn't supportive of financial re-engineering, so the 50% variable that makes a 10L salary into 20L and that 6 lakh Honda City thrown in to sweeten the deal, don't finally figure in the figures put out. I'm sure there will be other schools quite willing to look the other way while including them.

And to be quite frank, your highest salaries really don't give you an idea of how good a school is. I can speak for IIFT, and if more people took up offers in a certain domain and not the other, the avg salaries quoted would've been far higher. Then there were people who were profile focussed, and didn't mind getting a smaller paypack to get into a line of work that they actually sought. So you cannot comment on quality of placements by looking at one monolith of a figure. It does finally depend upon what the batch wants, that is ofcourse true for those institutes where such luxury of choice is applicable.

All said and done, the quoting of salaries as it is done now is very misleading. But the motivations behind not quoting them don't seem any more honest.

Btw, wasn't this an IIM L placements thread?

[DesiGuru]

Originally Posted by j0

Well I don't have much to contribute here, but let me just express my unbounded joy at the fact that the National Waste Theory still lives on in the oldest national waste site of them all.

As far as disclosure of salaries goes, if there was a credible mechanism where inquisitive little souls could easily get clear details about the take home, variable, CTC, perks etc about different profiles offered by the companies, then we could start harping on the transparency factor of releasing student salaries.

I know that IIFT being sarkari has some stringent red tape that isn't supportive of financial re-engineering, so the 50% variable that makes a 10L salary into 20L and that 6 lakh Honda City thrown in to sweeten the deal, don't finally figure in the figures put out. I'm sure there will be other schools quite willing to look the other way while including them.

And to be quite frank, your highest salaries really don't give you an idea of how good a school is. I can speak for IIFT, and if more people took up offers in a certain domain and not the other, the avg salaries quoted would've been far higher. Then there were people who were profile focussed, and didn't mind getting a smaller paypack to get into a line of work that they actually sought. So you cannot comment on quality of placements by looking at one monolith of a figure. It does finally depend upon what the batch wants, that is ofcourse true for those institutes where such luxury of choice is applicable.

All said and done, the quoting of salaries as it is done now is very misleading. But the motivations behind not quoting them don't seem any more honest.

Btw, wasn't this an IIM L placements thread?

Now j0, I dont think anyone truely disagrees with the above and infact it was almost hilarious to see the IIMC average being mentioned to be 55 Lakhs a while back where the average foreign was converted into Rupees by NDTV!! We were joking in the canteen that now CEOs will leave their jobs to join IIMC Media too is too blame here along with the Bschools. Ofcourse majorly its the hyper media secretaries and no real transparency. See if there were some really smart Media chaps they would actually ask for a breakup before splashing it on the front page!

But are you trying to say that instead of bringing sense to the data you stop giving it altogether!! I dont think so. Not revealing data is the higher sin and Yeah this should only be about IIM L, but unfortunately my old habits of generalising die hard and I see this as maybe another excuse by the IIMs to be not transparent and very governmental really. With the OBC quota thing coming their average salary might fall and maybe this is just the trick they need to stop their possible downfall. Who knows! as i said speculation abounds a lot more when u dont reveal data!!

And yeah Peace IIM L. I think you guys had Mckinsey for the first time!! Congrats and Good Luck

K

[shrikanthk]

Originally Posted by orca

I am neutral on this one.

On one side it makes sense for the aspirants to have placements info before they make a decision, average sals would definitely help in that sense (we can do away with the student-company-money linkage though). But then the media frenzy is at its highest and u cant really stop them from going ga-ga over 20 something blokes walking away with a 10+ package when the average sarkari karmachari struggles to make 20% of that.

The real issue here is that this avg salary thing kinda turns into a one upmanship game and breeds unhealthy and unethical competition among B-skools. Tier-(n+1) skools wanna get into Tier-n and get tempted to fudge numbers and then the higher ranked skools have no other way out than to quote higher averages. That we dont have someone to audit these numbers every year doesnt help things in any way. This added to the fact that companies themselves quote inflated salaries turns the transparency walla logic on its head since the genuine-ness of the data quoted by the skools itself is under question.

So where do we go from here?

IIML has taken an interesting step and I wouldnt label that chickening out Lets see if all the IIM's can work out a consensus on this in the near future.

And yes, the Nehru-Gandhi parivar doesnt have much to with what IIMX decides to do today

orca has made some pertinent points here.
if an tier-2 insti like say IMT quotes a 10+ average salary, there will doubtless be a huge temptation for the tier 1 schools to distinguish themselves by fudging figures.

Moreover, pay packages are heavily influenced by the batch profile. One of the reasons why K did well this year on the salary front was because 75% of the batch had work-ex (av. work-ex around 2 years). Journalists seldom address this aspect in their placement reports.

[case]

I guess DesiGuru tried his level best to get IIMbians to counter his points. Thankfully they did not get instigated !!

I had read an article written by an ex IIMA a month (?) back in Eco Times. He says while there have been achievers from other IIMs , only IIMA has been actively and effectively promoting their alumni in the media. Surprising ! Looks like there is more scope here for
"who is better" issue than mere who has got higher salary at placement !!

Case

[anandv]

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

Now j0, I dont think anyone truely disagrees with the above and infact it was almost hilarious to see the IIMC average being mentioned to be 55 Lakhs a while back where the average foreign was converted into Rupees by NDTV!! We were joking in the canteen that now CEOs will leave their jobs to join IIMC Media too is too blame here along with the Bschools. Ofcourse majorly its the hyper media secretaries and no real transparency. See if there were some really smart Media chaps they would actually ask for a breakup before splashing it on the front page!

But are you trying to say that instead of bringing sense to the data you stop giving it altogether!! I dont think so. Not revealing data is the higher sin and Yeah this should only be about IIM L, but unfortunately my old habits of generalising die hard and I see this as maybe another excuse by the IIMs to be not transparent and very governmental really. With the OBC quota thing coming their average salary might fall and maybe this is just the trick they need to stop their possible downfall. Who knows! as i said speculation abounds a lot more when u dont reveal data!!

And yeah Peace IIM L. I think you guys had Mckinsey for the first time!! Congrats and Good Luck

K

This post has been a intellectual treat! And one of the genuine contenders for the best post tag in PAgal Elections in May. Except for a trivially wrong fact! Had you used the word AT Kearney as the newcomer then it would have been very fine, but damn you used the McKword They have been accepting L students for last 5-6 yrs for sure! Anyway never mind

Now about avg salary allegations, it may be that our average is lesser than IK etc. But one must appreciate the fact that IIML placed 281 students whereas IIMK and IIMI placed
155 and 115 students respectively. Now one doesn't need to hire a Stats Ph.D. to tell you the fact that it is very difficult to sustain the average over 281 students as compared to 115 or 155 students.

On an euphemistic note: India is 4th in world as per GDP (PPP) , but if you go for GDP per capita, India is ranked 126th. So will you call India as highly underdeveloped? Hope you got the message

Btw in the first place itself, there is no way to compare the salaries because internally also we don't know any details about salaries.

[DesiGuru]

Originally Posted by anandv

This post has been a intellectual treat! And one of the genuine contenders for the best post tag in PAgal Elections in May. Except for a trivially wrong fact! Had you used the word AT Kearney as the newcomer then it would have been very fine, but damn you used the McKword They have been accepting L students for last 5-6 yrs for sure! Anyway never mind

Now about avg salary allegations, it may be that our average is lesser than IK etc. But one must appreciate the fact that IIML placed 281 students whereas IIMK and IIMI placed
155 and 115 students respectively. Now one doesn't need to hire a Stats Ph.D. to tell you the fact that it is very difficult to sustain the average over 281 students as compared to 115 or 155 students.

On an euphemistic note: India is 4th in world as per GDP (PPP) , but if you go for GDP per capita, India is ranked 126th. So will you call India as highly underdeveloped? Hope you got the message

Btw in the first place itself, there is no way to compare the salaries because internally also we don't know any details about salaries.

Abe saale It was you who told me Mckinsey came to campus for the first time at L. Earlier they asked for candidates to come to their offices or something. In any case 5 candidates being chosen by Mckinsey is respectful by any standards

And Yeah case! Its funny an ex IIMA guy thinks only IIMA has successful alumni Grow Up. A chicken is someone who does not have the guts to argue and a chicken is also the one who is afraid to reveal data. That is simply by definition. Everything else is gas

If IIMs stop revealing placement data they are chicken (including IIMC if they stop revealing it) and there are no two ways to look at it. When quotas take over 50% of the batch in IIMs they might need to hide their placement data and this is the best time to start hiding

I believe the need of the hour is to explain to the country and the media the details of the salary and how there is a bonus structure etc. I think its also important for especially the IIMs to tell the country what the lowest salary is so that everyone knows that there is something called as the bottom 25% of the class. To run away from transparency just shows what a sorry government institution the IIMs are becoming just like all other sorry government institutions

K

[Plumber]

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

And Yeah case! Its funny an ex IIMA guy thinks only IIMA has successful alumni Grow Up. A chicken is someone who does not have the guts to argue and a chicken is also the one who is afraid to reveal data. That is simply by definition. Everything else is gas

K

Good points DG

Much to the contrary of what you thought, the alumni that Case mentioned, wrote in the article that there's not much difference in the quality of students between IIM-A and other IIMs like B and C. However, it's because of the PR edge/focus that IIM-A has; that the world percieves some of the great/world-class enterpreneurs, CEOs as IIMA-Alumni. He recommended that the others IIMs too, like IIM-A, need to focus on PR and communication activites, if they not only want to be "world-class", but also want to be seen as the same.

Of course, as we saw from the Indra Nooyi episode and stuff, IIM-C is already doin the needful.

Sorry for the diversion!

Cheers!