Why ISB will beat IIMs

[mbawhizz]

Maine nahin likha hain boss.
Govindraj Ethiraj, the CNBC anchor has written this article. So, if you have anything, don't tell me. Tell him

http://datelinebombay.blogspot.com/2...beat-iims.html

Why ISB Might Beat The IIMs



Im pretty sure these headlines are unintentional. I saw one this evening which said, "ISB declines to reveal boy's identity." Another one, "ISB is not revealing boy's identity, yet."

Im sure you had the same thoughts I would have had. Some heinous crime has been committed and an organisation that goes by the initials of ISB is refusing to give up the accused.

The Indian School of Business is in the news. A graduate student has bagged a $233,800 (Rs 1.04 crore) job. That beats the previous record set by the IIMs.

Recently, IIM Bangalore kicked up a fuss saying they didn't want to turn their placement season into a circus and their students into animals in a temporary zoo. Makes sense I guess. ISB has picked up from there. And refuses to part with the lucky chap's identity. That makes him lucky twice over. He earns the money and gets to keep it, since the Bhais won't find him easily.


Totally Biased

For various, totally biased reasons, I would like to state that I always thought ISB would score in the longer term. Now, one does give educational institutions a little time to grow and mature, maybe a few decades, if not centuries. But this is the era of instant karma. So, even management schools are in the reckoning within 2,000 days of launch. Long term is only a year more now.

I am not an expert on B-Schools. I couldn't have made it to them or through them. I would like to say Ive found the IIMs pompous in their demeanour. Or ineffective. But that would not be fair. I've never dealt with them. But Ive met with IIM A alumni who've toured Harvard Business School as case studies. And yet they've never been considered as good enough for similar exercises by their own alma mater. And have made it a point to point it out.

I have `dealt' with the ISB though. And visited their campus at least on two occasions. Once to be part of a panel discussion. I may not exactly be a big catch but this guy who visited the ISB two months later surely was. His name was George Bush and he is the President of the United States of America.

Why It Will Pull Ahead

As an aside, the ISB, as I noted in the latest issue of ISB Insight, is understandably thrilled about Bush's visit, the first of its kind. And yet, they didn't devote a whole edition to it. Like many people would have been tempted to. So they score reasonably well on modesty.

Ive met with some of the ISB faculty as well. They seem lively and vibrant. Maybe its because they are a new team, who've just got together. Both the dean and the deputy dean are warm and friendly. And so are a whole lot of other people in the sprawling campus, a little outside Hyderabad. So, the cockles of my heart warm at the thought of an ISB graduate taking home a crore, in dollars. And yes, its possible Ive encountered him.

Why do I think the ISB will pull ahead ? For one, its not because some lucky sod got a Rs 1 crore job. Not at all. Nor is it because they were kind enough to remember me. Its simply because they work extremely hard at being what they are. Maybe because they are number two or five or whatever, the faculty and students are extremely competitive. They know they've got a while to go before they are truly in the reckoning in the hall of fame of Indian B-Schools.

But they seem to be doing a few right things. Like creating a truly international atmosphere. At the panel discussion I was part of, exchange students from Wharton (if I remember correctly) were firing questions in the classroom. They also have a Chinese B-School exchange program, among others. Students are thus exposed to a global, multi-cultural environment, in Hyderabad. ISB has affiliations with Wharton and Kellogs School of Business. This, in my mind, is a very critical requirement in the shaping of a global manager.


Quality Interaction


The other point that I can touch upon quickly is interaction and research. The ISB is trying hard to ensure its students get a well-rounded exposure to leadership, issues, academia, public policy, politicians et al. Im sure institutes like IIM Bangalore are doing well in this race. But the ISB is pretty much there too.

And then there are case studies. The ISB is yet to reach somewhere but the IIMs, who've been around for so long, have not. Their output often reads like a series of droll Planning Commission like papers. At least from what Ive seen. And heard. Totally unreadable. Having recently walked through a Harvard Business School case study in some detail and sat through a couple of classes after that, I have some idea of what it could be.

These two or three ingredients may not be sufficient for success, so to speak. And a Rs 1 crore salary slip does not mean you hoist the victory flag. Particularly since the student in question may have dollops of experience, particularly the right kind. And someone found the right fit. Oh yes, Ive met a lot of IIM grads who are mostly neutral to indifferent to their institutes. A few have gone out and thrashed them. And there must be others who absolutely adore these institutions. I've yet to meet them though. The ISB grads on the other hand seem more connected with their instutition. And even look at the ISBs shortcomings as temporary glitches rather than as a sign of decline or decay.

There must be many reasons for all of this but its interesting. Note that only four or five years have passed. Am sure the ISBians won't rest. From where they come, they would work harder. Or so I would think. In my biased way of course.

[shivanQ]

ISB has huge salaries to project this year but that in no way means its here to supercede IIMs.

Well talking about the global scenario ISB is in true sense a global B-school ,as it takes candidates with work experience only.This is common for most of the B-Schools round the world.And so ISB in the near Future could make it into the TOP 100 of the world.

But The IIMs have a niche of selecting a big percentage of students with almost no work experience and they are known World-Wide for the same.

So though the future analysts may say raking in a big moolah may in turn raise the standards of a b-school, i beleive that,
Brand "IIM" is not that easy to be overtaken!!!

[ronniekher]

First and foremost, I really don't understand how can one b-school 'beat' another.
If it is thru salaries and placements then ISB is here to supercede all Indian b-schools.
If it is in terms of the maximum people vying for a b-school, then yes IIM's will never be beaten by any other b-school since they have 1.7 lacs applying to them every year.

IIM's are a brand but then what exactly is a brand? Something that creates an association in people's mind. The general public will always connect with the IIM's more than any other b-school primarily because they have been around for a long time and have a presence pan-India. The industry is dominated by IIM grads at top positions so IIM is a brand for them.

But with more and more corporates visiting ISB and picking up their students at senior positions rest assured ISB as a brand will have maximum brand recall amongst industry stalwarts in the future...maybe 10, 20 years down the line but this is inevitable.

More than all this, I feel a b-school is better than any other only if it adds more value to a student. And more than monetary terms, it would be in terms of the experience and exposure.

And this is where I feel ISB has an edge over all other b-schools...but of course things are changing with more top institutes going in for people with work-ex and foreign exchange programs etc...but for a change the market leaders are playing catch up to the market entrant here

rgds
ronnie

[DesiGuru]

Vaise this Govindraj Ethiwhatever is just a reporter employee types So understanding his level of intellect his views should be read as such

But Yes!! The Fall of anything started and run by the Government is inevitable in the long run

You dont have to write such a long explanation for a fundamental fact of real life especially with the wrong reasoning

K

[RINKU]

another ISB marketing thread........and tomorow govind ethiraj will say that bush visited ISB so it is the best B school. and then day after tomorow he will say that ISB student got 1 crore salary so its the best B school......

ISB PR continue ....this long struggle......it will be very long

Originally Posted by mbawhizz

Maine nahin likha hain boss.
Govindraj Ethiraj, the CNBC anchor has written this article. So, if you have anything, don't tell me. Tell him

http://datelinebombay.blogspot.com/2...beat-iims.html

Why ISB Might Beat The IIMs



Im pretty sure these headlines are unintentional. I saw one this evening which said, "ISB declines to reveal boy's identity." Another one, "ISB is not revealing boy's identity, yet."

Im sure you had the same thoughts I would have had. Some heinous crime has been committed and an organisation that goes by the initials of ISB is refusing to give up the accused.

The Indian School of Business is in the news. A graduate student has bagged a $233,800 (Rs 1.04 crore) job. That beats the previous record set by the IIMs.

Recently, IIM Bangalore kicked up a fuss saying they didn't want to turn their placement season into a circus and their students into animals in a temporary zoo. Makes sense I guess. ISB has picked up from there. And refuses to part with the lucky chap's identity. That makes him lucky twice over. He earns the money and gets to keep it, since the Bhais won't find him easily.


Totally Biased

For various, totally biased reasons, I would like to state that I always thought ISB would score in the longer term. Now, one does give educational institutions a little time to grow and mature, maybe a few decades, if not centuries. But this is the era of instant karma. So, even management schools are in the reckoning within 2,000 days of launch. Long term is only a year more now.

I am not an expert on B-Schools. I couldn't have made it to them or through them. I would like to say Ive found the IIMs pompous in their demeanour. Or ineffective. But that would not be fair. I've never dealt with them. But Ive met with IIM A alumni who've toured Harvard Business School as case studies. And yet they've never been considered as good enough for similar exercises by their own alma mater. And have made it a point to point it out.

I have `dealt' with the ISB though. And visited their campus at least on two occasions. Once to be part of a panel discussion. I may not exactly be a big catch but this guy who visited the ISB two months later surely was. His name was George Bush and he is the President of the United States of America.

Why It Will Pull Ahead

As an aside, the ISB, as I noted in the latest issue of ISB Insight, is understandably thrilled about Bush's visit, the first of its kind. And yet, they didn't devote a whole edition to it. Like many people would have been tempted to. So they score reasonably well on modesty.

Ive met with some of the ISB faculty as well. They seem lively and vibrant. Maybe its because they are a new team, who've just got together. Both the dean and the deputy dean are warm and friendly. And so are a whole lot of other people in the sprawling campus, a little outside Hyderabad. So, the cockles of my heart warm at the thought of an ISB graduate taking home a crore, in dollars. And yes, its possible Ive encountered him.

Why do I think the ISB will pull ahead ? For one, its not because some lucky sod got a Rs 1 crore job. Not at all. Nor is it because they were kind enough to remember me. Its simply because they work extremely hard at being what they are. Maybe because they are number two or five or whatever, the faculty and students are extremely competitive. They know they've got a while to go before they are truly in the reckoning in the hall of fame of Indian B-Schools.

But they seem to be doing a few right things. Like creating a truly international atmosphere. At the panel discussion I was part of, exchange students from Wharton (if I remember correctly) were firing questions in the classroom. They also have a Chinese B-School exchange program, among others. Students are thus exposed to a global, multi-cultural environment, in Hyderabad. ISB has affiliations with Wharton and Kellogs School of Business. This, in my mind, is a very critical requirement in the shaping of a global manager.


Quality Interaction


The other point that I can touch upon quickly is interaction and research. The ISB is trying hard to ensure its students get a well-rounded exposure to leadership, issues, academia, public policy, politicians et al. Im sure institutes like IIM Bangalore are doing well in this race. But the ISB is pretty much there too.

And then there are case studies. The ISB is yet to reach somewhere but the IIMs, who've been around for so long, have not. Their output often reads like a series of droll Planning Commission like papers. At least from what Ive seen. And heard. Totally unreadable. Having recently walked through a Harvard Business School case study in some detail and sat through a couple of classes after that, I have some idea of what it could be.

These two or three ingredients may not be sufficient for success, so to speak. And a Rs 1 crore salary slip does not mean you hoist the victory flag. Particularly since the student in question may have dollops of experience, particularly the right kind. And someone found the right fit. Oh yes, Ive met a lot of IIM grads who are mostly neutral to indifferent to their institutes. A few have gone out and thrashed them. And there must be others who absolutely adore these institutions. I've yet to meet them though. The ISB grads on the other hand seem more connected with their instutition. And even look at the ISBs shortcomings as temporary glitches rather than as a sign of decline or decay.

There must be many reasons for all of this but its interesting. Note that only four or five years have passed. Am sure the ISBians won't rest. From where they come, they would work harder. Or so I would think. In my biased way of course.

[fragileninja]

Originally Posted by mbawhizz

I am not an expert on B-Schools. I couldn't have made it to them or through them. I would like to say Ive found the IIMs pompous in their demeanour. Or ineffective. But that would not be fair. I've never dealt with them.

Read this carefully

On a serious note, none of the arguments seems very convincing. I think we should stop comparing ISB with PGP programs of IIMs, which have high intake of freshers. Lets see how IIMs fare in the PGPX program, which is in direct competition with ISB.

[Psychodementia]

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

Vaise this Govindraj Ethiwhatever is just a reporter employee types So understanding his level of intellect his views should be read as such

But Yes!! The Fall of anything started and run by the Government is inevitable in the long run

You dont have to write such a long explanation for a fundamental fact of real life especially with the wrong reasoning

K

I am amazed how you can distil so much wisdom into such few words of your posts

Arun

[shivanQ]

well


IIMs are today a brand for sure

but as one of my frnd says that IIMs are really good coz arnd 1.7 lakhs apply to them each year


then i must put in that not everyone wants to apply to the IIMs
coz not everyone is sure that he/she will get the IIMs

but with arnd 85 colleges taking CAT score

it is a compulsion to apply to the IIMs and
if at all like XLRI
CAT and IIMs had seperate forms

then we would have seen a huge decline in the no. of those
who apply to the IIMs

thogh i will till my end say IIMs are class apart than an ISB

but for sure they arent that celestial figures too
on the global scene atleast

as far as salaries are concerned
they do form a criterion to rate a b-school

but when ISB graduates at the time of joining only have huge commendable packages


then getting a crore bucks is not that gr8 a deal for them

so

i would like to conclude
that
though
IIMs (esp A,B,C) have no match in india

but they face a run for money in asia itself

where even the Beijing university is ahead of them

and ya IIMs are definitely not the only reason
why every year 1.7 lakhs write CAT

[ronniekher]

Originally Posted by shivanQ

well


IIMs are today a brand for sure

but as one of my frnd says that IIMs are really good coz arnd 1.7 lakhs apply to them each year


then i must put in that not everyone wants to apply to the IIMs
coz not everyone is sure that he/she will get the IIMs

but with arnd 85 colleges taking CAT score

it is a compulsion to apply to the IIMs and
if at all like XLRI
CAT and IIMs had seperate forms

then we would have seen a huge decline in the no. of those
who apply to the IIMs

thogh i will till my end say IIMs are class apart than an ISB

but for sure they arent that celestial figures too
on the global scene atleast

as far as salaries are concerned
they do form a criterion to rate a b-school

but when ISB graduates at the time of joining only have huge commendable packages


then getting a crore bucks is not that gr8 a deal for them

so

i would like to conclude
that
though
IIMs (esp A,B,C) have no match in india

but they face a run for money in asia itself

where even the Beijing university is ahead of them

and ya IIMs are definitely not the only reason
why every year 1.7 lakhs write CAT

wouldn't entirely agree with this

ISB grads have good pay packages when they join yes...but a crore bucks is a commendable feat nonetheless!

anyways i don't believe in pay packages, median salary, average salary etc etc..so just wanna veer away from all of it.

in my opinion, the greatest testimonial of the reputation of a b-school is the level at which the industry absorbs them. and this is one area wherein ISB rules over any other place in this country.

Plus an advantage of ISB is the sheer diversity of students in terms of profile and work-ex. 10 mths into a b-school and I honestly feel that its more important to have batchmates with whom you can share and learn corporate experiences rather than a brilliant mind!

But as a few have said-IIM's take a lotta freshers so a direct comparision is not of much use. However, in the years to come I see a fundamental shift in the working of b-schools:more and more of them going the ISB way tht is taking in almost entirely all work-ex guys. And when this scenario occurs, you will have places like ISB ruling the roost! Unimaginable right now, but a very strong possibility 8-10 years down the line moi feels

rgds
ronnie

[dhamans2001]

ISB will beat IIMs based upon research output...Till now all the talk has been about placements...I guess mostly or all of pagalguy readers and audience are MBA wannabes and dont have much idea about research quality.

I am a doctoral student in a B school in US and from the journal rankings, I can say and show that cumulative research output of faculty in IIMs is 3rd rate. How many IIM faculty have published in HBR, Academy of Managment Journal, Management Science? You will find hardly any prof..The ones which do have these papers are from their disserations when they were phd students in US univs and have the name of these univs and not of IIMs.

Now there is a thing called tenure track which gives faculty permanent positions in univs. Based on the research output from work done at IIMs, I doubt any faculty will get tenure even in middle tier schools in US ,forget top tier schools..

None of IIMs figure in the top 50-100 rankings in terms of research productivity...

How many faculty members with Phd from IIMs are there in third tier US univs (forget top tier)?

It isnt suprising u will see faculty in IIMs with phds from lucknow, shivaji, karnataka, indore, timbaktoo universities teaching there....and not in schools abroad....

Now look at quality of research journals in resident faculty of ISB...you will realize the difference..

Why IIMs do crap research? Well, when they are paid Rs. 25k..why will anyone do top quality research...or IIMs cannot attract good faculty when asst prof salaries are less than a manager in a call center..so they consult to feed their stomach