[chandu_v]

Originally Posted by vsriv

Whoa! My 'example' stands corrected, .............and now I'm sure McKinsey USA won't pick any ISBians next year..........

Serves me right for asking a guy with 3 US patents and 7 published papers to "do the math". That was a general comment by the way, and not meant to offend.

I was just putting forward a vaguely optimistic view, that maybe, just maybe, ISBians would be more cost-effective choices for future global firms' recruitments when compared to Kellogg/Wharton, which are ISB's associate schools. And like I said, the support for my argument can only come from this year's Intl placements.

Truly speaking, I sincerely hope (Hoping against hope) that my theory is proven wrong and all the big strategy consulting firms inclusing McKinsey recuit from ISB for their USA offices in big numbers.

[redh0rn]

Originally Posted by 19.rishi

Hi bro,

it was arnd 25 mins .... i think i remember u as well...nt sure though ...are u from IT ? my int slot was 9.40 AM /23 oct.

Originally Posted by 19.rishi

Even my int was for abt 25 mins....

btw , wats ur GMAT?

best of luck for tomoro , lets hope we meet at ISB , then we can do the photo studio proj under PaEV ...lol...

Originally Posted by YoungNRestless

Hi Rishi,

I think I remember you. I was the bald guy on your left in the waiting room. You had a pretty long interview - like 40 mins isn't it?

Originally Posted by CR123

Ok... dats nice!!!

On the other hand, while my interview focused on work!! {I was actually asked to make a marketing plan for ISB :-)}

Also... questions focused on why MBA, why now after u r doing OK in ur career! Went on for some time... 20-25 mins... which was much higher than those that I saw arnd me... others were lasting 10 odd mins each!

N yes Acharya... we'll be more than happy to help u dude! On whose name do we raise the invoice???

Originally Posted by 19.rishi

Hi CR123,

My interview was mostly abt my work profile, the asked specific questions about some projects that i had mentioned in my application.

Apart from this some general questions about E.C's etc.

One specific ques was that being from a creative industry , will u fit in the highly competitive and rational environment of ISB.

No why MBA, why ISB , low GMAT etc.

Thats about it.

How was your interview?

Guys, sorry to play the mod here, but we'd all benefit from keeping such 1-1 conversations to PMs. Thanks and apologies in advance.

[19.rishi]

hi redhorn,

point taken.

thx

[bluepeas]

Agree with you.
Also when you choose a foreign school apart from the school's strengths and reputation, school's location also matters.
For e.g these Singaporean and Manila schools might get recruiters from Asia Pacific region only (incl Aus).
I am not sure AIM, Manila attracts many recruiters from business hubs like Singapore and HK.
For those of us who look forward to make a career in India, the other better options would probably be the 1 year exc courses of IIMs, XLRI etc.
IIML shortlist is also scheduled for tomorrow ..
IIMI is yet to release applications
XLRI application last date is 2008 end.

If the docs theory is still haunting a few of you, I have created a survey that can disprove it... Please take part
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?s...R8twHmjw_3d_3d

Puys, ATB for tmrow's result.
Sucess or disappointment tomorrow, neither of it will be a first time experience.

Originally Posted by mad_scientist

As far as i know, we are undergoing a changeover period from our batch(2009) onwards. Consider this a financial iceage where survival is solely for the fittest. This is true for colleges as well.

When global economy booms, it creates a lot of requirements and there's a mad frenzy for qualified ppl. This is what has been going on for the past 5-7 years. Things are going to change now. Recruiters are going to be much more picky when it comes to hiring managers. Hence, i dont think last year salary figures, or even past few years figures should play a role in deciding which college to go for. Same thing goes for the list of recruiters as well.
...

[mad_scientist]

Originally Posted by ps1234

Dude, you need some organs left for getting through those excruciating 1-2 years of college rigour (just kidding )

Well to take the thought further....

I cudnt agree more man.
Im sure that a couple of years from now people like us would dig into books and journals to better understand this ice-age. We are literally living through it, so instead of ranting about job situations and interest rates we should understand each and every little detail available to us at this time.

As far as colleges are concerned, the question now is not whether to join asian, euro or US colleges, its where one would want to be after a couple of years from now, not just geographically but sector wise as well.

[mrcreddy36]

Nice post.

Just adding a few more aspects, one needs to be very clear on why MBA? Having an answer to say to Adcom in the interview is different from having an answer for oneself............

I remember during the last mini financial crisis, Asian Financial Crisis, people had a tough time choosing the field they wanted to go for. There were no finance jobs in the market .......It did not matter where you did your MBA from. Lot of them shifted to IT field during their MBA and took off a career in that.

But, those who went on to do Finance, landed in Finance departments of large manufacturing companies and not securities/D-Street/W-Street. However, after 2 years that was not the case. The B-Schools were flooded with Finance Jobs in D-Street. But the guys who went into Finance departments of manufacturing, could not get back to the main finance stream.

I guess the next few years is going to be worse. I see many sectors with negative trends and cost cutting (implying cost of training an unproductive fresher is more than retaining a senior with 10 years experience at double the salary - "Not completly applicable in IT coding"). So jobs on strategy for growth might be coming in small numbers from big companies. But jobs on how to remain afloat might be more in number. I am sure most of you know the difference that this could make to start ones career. To draw an analogy, as a sportsman - the first is training yourself in the field of High Jump/growth, while the second one is training to be a swimmer. A easier comparision . A fresh Engineer starting as a Test Engineer vs developer in J2EE or SAP.......... After 2-3 years as all you know, it is very difficult to change.......... So guys be careful and take seriously the question posed by ISB - Why MBA?

This is just a sugesstion from my end and hopefully it will help all the idle minds think for the next 12-16 hours while waiting for the result.

BTW: All R1 applicants who want to go into jobs after ISB, can envy R2 applicants. They will be able to take more informed decisions, after analyzing the placements scenario this year. An altogether transition :new_scatter: of advantage from R1 to R2 applicants. However, they have to face the known disadvantages

Cheers............

MRC

Originally Posted by ps1234

Dude, you need some organs left for getting through those excruciating 1-2 years of college rigour (just kidding )

Well to take the thought further. More than just the whole 9 yards that you mentioned to select a college. A more thorough introspection is needed if placement is a concern here. I would have agreed to that whole 9 yard theory in case of selection of college A vs College B or College C.

But i believe if concern is of placement, even the Harvards or LSB's or IIM's of the world will have a tough time to place people next year or a year later. When i say tough time, i necessarily don't mean there will be crisis, but the kinds of job profiles and fat salaries that these institutions used to enjoy will hard to come by in coming 2 years.

My perspective on job placement is that - One's decision should be based on studying the macro-economical picture of world economy first and then a study of emerging economic indicators locally (the market that you are gonna concentrate post MBA).

Looking at the current grim picture of the whole economy :-x, i.e Eurozone in recession, North American at the verge of recession and contracting of Asian economies, it will be more a matter of survival for Businesses rather than expanding operations. Its gonna be a year or two of consolidation, and as you said, its gonna be a survival of the fittest. A contraction of Eurozone and North America, will have a grave impact not only on the world economy as a whole but also a dampner for a couple of placement seasons coming up.

What one needs to understand and focus is what industry or functional area post MBA you are looking to switch to, or are going to further continue, and study the growth of that industry, and functional within that to be able to not only get a good job prospect , but also that if its gonna be sustainable (for example analyst jobs at wallstreets will be hard to come by, same with I-banking majors will have hard time). Which essentially means lot of Financial folks will switch functions and industry and will provide tough competition to other functions and industries, this needs to be taken into consideration which selecting your function and industry too !!
The above questions needs to be answered first, and then worry about selection of a College which can meet your demand and also give you right skills to succeed.

A change is coming the way the D-streets and Wallstreets of the world are gonna operate, and a new World Economy Order is emerging.

My Bet is among the Asian economies, its gonna be survival of the fittest, North America and Eurozone will need to shed a lot of blood to come back to its prime form back, but i bet my money on India, which i believe will emerge as one of the leaders in the upcoming new Economic World Order, due to its sound Macro Economic indications which are emerging right now.

[ps1234]

Originally Posted by mrcreddy36

Nice post.

Just adding a few more aspects, one needs to be very clear on why MBA? Having an answer to say to Adcom in the interview is different from having an answer for oneself............

I remember during the last mini financial crisis, Asian Financial Crisis, people had a tough time choosing the field they wanted to go for. There were no finance jobs in the market .......It did not matter where you did your MBA from. Lot of them shifted to IT field during their MBA and took off a career in that.

But, those who went on to do Finance, landed in Finance departments of large manufacturing companies and not securities/D-Street/W-Street. However, after 2 years that was not the case. The B-Schools were flooded with Finance Jobs in D-Street. But the guys who went into Finance departments of manufacturing, could not get back to the main finance stream.

I guess the next few years is going to be worse. I see many sectors with negative trends and cost cutting (implying cost of training an unproductive fresher is more than retaining a senior with 10 years experience at double the salary - "Not completly applicable in IT coding"). So jobs on strategy for growth might be coming in small numbers from big companies. But jobs on how to remain afloat might be more in number. I am sure most of you know the difference that this could make to start ones career. To draw an analogy, as a sportsman - the first is training yourself in the field of High Jump/growth, while the second one is training to be a swimmer. A easier comparision . A fresh Engineer starting as a Test Engineer vs developer in J2EE or SAP.......... After 2-3 years as all you know, it is very difficult to change.......... So guys be careful and take seriously the question posed by ISB - Why MBA?

This is just a sugesstion from my end and hopefully it will help all the idle minds think for the next 12-16 hours while waiting for the result.

BTW: All R1 applicants who want to go into jobs after ISB, can envy R2 applicants. They will be able to take more informed decisions, after analyzing the placements scenario this year. An altogether transition :new_scatter: of advantage from R1 to R2 applicants. However, they have to face the known disadvantages

Cheers............

MRC

I agree, and i belive the specific examples you set out to explain this is gonna be very helpful to the R2 applicants. Especially not taking the question lightly Why MBA? Its not a matter of cracking that question by making it sound convincing, but the fact, that how are you convincing yourself about the question - Why MBA ? and what Post MBA ?

[redh0rn]

Hi MRC, thanks, I love discussion on my favourite subject these days, The Global Economic Crisis.

My two cents, I don't think we are in a position to see clearly what industries/sectors will flourish/tank in two years from now. We are undergoing an extremely volatile period and the scenario is changing on a day-to-day, and sometimes hour-to-hour basis. In case you guys haven't had the time to tune into the world economy recently, here's couple of leading news highlights:

1. Pakistan is experiencing a ~25% inflation since a few weeks now, the highest in many decades. It's stock exchange (Karachi) has been shut since months, traders still come but play Cricket on their trading screens.

2. Japan's economy is now officially into recession. For last 2 years, it walked on really thin ice and lived dangerously on the edge of recession, but the latest news is that the Japanese GDP actually contracted in the last two quarters (the criteria for calling a recession). There is now a broader consensus that US is also in the grips of recession, and that this will continue for a few quarters at least (there are 4 quarters in a year).

4. If the investors among you are crying what BSE did to your investments, just see what happened to Australia investors. Australia, too, is looking at a long and hard recession.

3. Back home, Chidambaram is desparately exhorting airlines, real estate companies, automobile manufacturers and others to reduce prices to spur demand. Ignore it at your peril, we are definitely staring at a major, major slowdown in economy. All the key indicators are pointing southwards- be it IIP, agricultural production... Inflation is down, but there's no interest rate cut. Worse, consumer and commercial demand slowdown is threatening to set in motion a vicious cycle of production cuts, job cuts and what not. Next few months or quarters are looking very scary.

Given this 'world' outlook, I think it'll be pure daredevilry to 'select' an industry on its future prospects from today's vantage point. I am not saying that we should never attempt it, just that the picture right now is so hazy and dark that nobody knows what to make out of it.

So which industry do you want to go to? Aviation (Jet, Kingfisher among dozens of international airlines in deep trouble), Automobile (GM and Ford are almost down), IT (there will soon be mass layoffs by all major players), Real Estate (Unitech and DLF are bleeding, and btw, Dubai's property bubble just got burst in the last month), Banking/Finance (do I need to give examples?) I don't think we want to put our money down on an industry based on its 'prospects' 1.5 years down the line.

In my view, 'Why MBA' is best answered in the value-addition you are making to yourself. Don't look at MBA at this time to switch sectors. Look at it to make yourself that irresistible, highly-skilled employee with a deep domain experience. That seems to be the best strategy for the mid-term.
My few cents.

Originally Posted by mrcreddy36

Just adding a few more aspects, one needs to be very clear on why MBA? Having an answer to say to Adcom in the interview is different from having an answer for oneself............

I remember during the last mini financial crisis, Asian Financial Crisis, people had a tough time choosing the field they wanted to go for. There were no finance jobs in the market .......It did not matter where you did your MBA from. Lot of them shifted to IT field during their MBA and took off a career in that.

I guess the next few years is going to be worse. I see many sectors with negative trends and cost cutting (implying cost of training an unproductive fresher is more than retaining a senior with 10 years experience at double the salary - "Not completly applicable in IT coding"). So jobs on strategy for growth might be coming in small numbers from big companies. But jobs on how to remain afloat might be more in number. I am sure most of you know the difference that this could make to start ones career.

... So guys be careful and take seriously the question posed by ISB - Why MBA?

Cheers............

MRC

[vivekrvcse]

Hi Bluepeas -

You know , I think you got it right on.
Look at Bangalore's engineering college placements - every tom Dikc n harry gets placed here - well atleast till like 3 years back they did
You are a chem engineer- infosys/tcs/cts
you are a mech engineer - infosys/tcs/cts
civil engineer- comp sci engg - bioech engg - tronics trical whatever--------- you get placed with a take home of more than 15k

And this 15k is life changing for families whose monthly income was say 10k - i have seen tens of such instances and I am sure there are thousands of such cases all over in hyd, blore, pune etc

Similarly, corporates would have NTU NUS so easily accessible - why wud they go to AIM ? If there needs are satisfied - then why travel and waste precious man hours and money ? AIM has certainly taken a beating when it comes to the reputation of school - NTU NUS are way ahead

And hey can you please please update us on the survey results - or you can send me a PM if you dont wanna create hungama here- rather send me a PM and dont disclose it here

Originally Posted by bluepeas

Agree with you.
Also when you choose a foreign school apart from the school's strengths and reputation, school's location also matters.
For e.g these Singaporean and Manila schools might get recruiters from Asia Pacific region only (incl Aus).
I am not sure AIM, Manila attracts many recruiters from business hubs like Singapore and HK.
For those of us who look forward to make a career in India, the other better options would probably be the 1 year exc courses of IIMs, XLRI etc.
IIML shortlist is also scheduled for tomorrow ..
IIMI is yet to release applications
XLRI application last date is 2008 end.

If the docs theory is still haunting a few of you, I have created a survey that can disprove it... Please take part
Disprove Docs Theory

Puys, ATB for tmrow's result.
Sucess or disappointment tomorrow, neither of it will be a first time experience.

[ps1234]

Originally Posted by redh0rn

Hi MRC, thanks, I love discussion on my favourite subject these days, The Global Economic Crisis.

My two cents, I don't think we are in a position to see clearly what industries/sectors will flourish/tank in two years from now. We are undergoing an extremely volatile period and the scenario is changing on a day-to-day, and sometimes hour-to-hour basis. In case you guys haven't had the time to tune into the world economy recently, here's couple of leading news highlights:

1. Pakistan is experiencing a ~25% inflation since a few weeks now, the highest in many decades. It's stock exchange (Karachi) has been shut since months, traders still come but play Cricket on their trading screens.

2. Japan's economy is now officially into recession. For last 2 years, it walked on really thin ice and lived dangerously on the edge of recession, but the latest news is that the Japanese GDP actually contracted in the last two quarters (the criteria for calling a recession). There is now a broader consensus that US is also in the grips of recession, and that this will continue for a few quarters at least (there are 4 quarters in a year).

4. If the investors among you are crying what BSE did to your investments, just see what happened to Australia investors. Australia, too, is looking at a long and hard recession.

3. Back home, Chidambaram is desparately exhorting airlines, real estate companies, automobile manufacturers and others to reduce prices to spur demand. Ignore it at your peril, we are definitely staring at a major, major slowdown in economy. All the key indicators are pointing southwards- be it IIP, agricultural production... Inflation is down, but there's no interest rate cut. Worse, consumer and commercial demand slowdown is threatening to set in motion a vicious cycle of production cuts, job cuts and what not. Next few months or quarters are looking very scary.

Given this 'world' outlook, I think it'll be pure daredevilry to 'select' an industry on its future prospects from today's vantage point. I am not saying that we should never attempt it, just that the picture right now is so hazy and dark that nobody knows what to make out of it.

So which industry do you want to go to? Aviation (Jet, Kingfisher among dozens of international airlines in deep trouble), Automobile (GM and Ford are almost down), IT (there will soon be mass layoffs by all major players), Real Estate (Unitech and DLF are bleeding, and btw, Dubai's property bubble just got burst in the last month), Banking/Finance (do I need to give examples?) I don't think we want to put our money down on an industry based on its 'prospects' 1.5 years down the line.

In my view, 'Why MBA' is best answered in the value-addition you are making to yourself. Don't look at MBA at this time to switch sectors. Look at it to make yourself that irresistible, highly-skilled employee with a deep domain experience. That seems to be the best strategy for the mid-term.
My few cents.

I would love to take this further. The points you mentioned are valid ones, and yes, these are known facts, espcially somebody who is researching on his/her application, they are working on these details, though stating this, i won't take away the credit for you taking in a different perspective.

I would like to provide my perspective on the points you mentioned. Espcially, the one dealing with which sector and function.

Its true, right now the economic situation is grim and world economic order is changing by the day and by the hour. But this is first time we are experiencing and being aware of the crisis so clearly, due to advent of mass media, close ties of world economies, and more transparencies in the Governance. Economies of the world have seen ups and downs, which didn't stop it growing further, my point is nobody is going to predict or is eligible right now to predict what's going to happen but that's where the Fundamental economics comes in which tells, that if you can studey and figure out the sound business fundamentals within the industry as a specific and economy in general, then its not very difficult to judge for yourself what is going to emerge as a choice of industry or function for you to get into.

1) Pakistan's economy was faltering since last 4-5 years, due to instability on political front and also ecnomic front, this outcome was predictable, economists have been predicting this since long

2) Japan's economy is officially in recession, but their economy has been shrinking since 1990, espcially the entire decade, it dint grew more than a percent per year, it was already heating economy and was slowing down, so its not a big surprise, and more emphasis on exports, the demand declining due to shrinking of other economies, its bound to have its impact on their economy.


3) I agree that the economic indicators are looking grim, but regarding the price cuts etc, i really dont agree ti gives the real economic picture of india ( i would say election season, the freebies are bound to come by , but dont want to get into the political situation), as per bloomberg sources, indian economy is going to have an impact of a percent (so instead of 8%, around 7% growth) which i think is not bad in this scenario as a whole, the real driver for next economic growht for india, which is consumerism, is emerging thick and fast (considering middle class of india has around 350 mn + ppl, which is bigger than US's entire population), and planning comission has suggested that the shrinkage in economy by 1% will be compensated with infrastructure development and domestic government spending.

4) regarding stock market, we all know right now its panic mode world over and not gonna restore till strong macro economic indicators start emerging from developed and developing economies.

Lastly which industry to select, well, i would say look for alternatives, or study the industry of your choice which you think has strong fundamentals going forward, the point is not to look from a couple of quarters perspective but from a 2-3 years perspective.

US financial district came up after the world wars and energy crisis, when they found an alternative to manufacturing and energy as economic growth driver, they moved manufacturing out and they ushered in financials as new economic driver for their country, this crisis will once again make the gurus of economics to think and find answers to what is sustainable or next growth driver.

Like Automakers can switch to Green Technologies. Governments can switch to renewable energy generation sources, and more energy independence. Aviation has never been a profitable sector except for a while in the 90's, but world over aviation industry is in downturn since long, and mergers and acquisitions here have always produced the survival of the fittest (true in indian aspects), the aviation fuel has also been a concern for industry as a whole.
For IT, couple of quarters dont look good, but world over IT spending is gonna shrink by 5-7% (again predicted by microsofts and intels of the world), a world IT spending of the order of 3 tn, its a big money, but its not the end of the world ......... its a slowdown ... its not a shut down
Real estate always goes through the phases of ups and downs (if you see the home loan interest rates for past 2 decades, that will give you a fair idea how much real estate ups and downs every decade), these are not just today's problems in these industry the cycle of rate cuts, price boom burst, is all part of a cycle. DLF's and Unitech's of the world failed (coz they sold the biggest hoaxes on their balanced sheets about the "Land Bank" theory, which none of the fund manager subscribed too, they have failed due to that),

Finally Financial, this is more a cultural thing, A seasoned guy like Warren buffet called the complex MBS, CDS as financial weapons of mass destruction, but nobody listened to them, both domestic and away financial industry got lured into the biggest hoaxes of financial markets of making money by leveraging 20-30 times your worth and investing in these complex financial instruments, without understanding really how they work. Which is more a policy, governance and oversight issue. Banks and lenders failed to see, they are moving from their core business and exposing their risks to something they dont understand completely.

All these essentially says, that not following sound fundamentals in business, policy and economics, are bound to fail today or tomorrow. That should not discourage one to select one's industry and function. As MRC pointed out that your focus should not be a constricted one for a quarter or two but for 3-4 years.