US Visa Cap...Companies in US wont hire international

[puhrince]

I completely agree - well said and thought out Peruvian.

Originally Posted by Peruvianguru

Dear Amit, some light criticism in the form of questions for you:

I am open to constructive criticism, best regards

PGuru

[kgkid]

Originally Posted by sgmat

Guys after reading your views I have made some conclusions

1. There is no point at all in applying to US B SCHOOL anymore...
2. One should forget US B school and think of other B schools outside US..
3. thIS CONDITON OF THE H 1 VISA in US wont improve by the next year too n I think it will remain like this forever or what....

Please throw some light on these conclusions....

your conclusions are too crisp. Do apply to US bschools but keep your options wide open.

[kgkid]

As another confirmed report from a senior of mine, Google and Microsoft have stopped hiring international "MBA" candidates.

[itsrahul]

Originally Posted by puhrince

but most of the English speaking jobs are in UK, so why aren't u going to a UK school instead?

Mainly because I couldn't find a college as my fit.
LBS - too expensive
MBS - somehow I did not find it attractive
Cambridge/Oxford etc - 12 months programs and I wanted 16-18 months program

[amitchau29]

Puhrince-ofcourse it doesnt mean any school in the US but the reputed ones. afterall the US has 2000 MBAs...obviously most of them will be worthless...ofcourse the US Top 10 would be a great choice but not everyone can get into them.
the 4 great schools in canada? ivey, rotmans, queens and schullich?? well i spoke to alumni and current students at Ivey and schullich(not queens and rotmans). Ivey and queens is a one year MBA. U will not get a PR while passing out. All said that getting a job as International student is tough in Canada..without the resident card companies generally dont hire. ivey student mentioned most of the internationals are struggling compared to the residents. he himself is a resident and said he without his resident card he would be in trouble too. my friend in schullich also confirmed this...infact he is worried about his decision to go as an internationals student to schullich...it cost him quite a bit anyway. Finance is not their focus or mine. toronto is good for finance but where do others like Marketing students go? i also spoke to students in UBC(vancouver) and Mcgill and HEC montreal...all said jobs are limited in their cities(vancouver and Montreal).and as an intrantional student it gets tougher. after a canadian MBA...as an international I cant work in the US...as I will have to apply for the H1 B lottery. whereas once one has a canadian PR after US mba..one can work in canada

I too am not promoting the US. I dont like the US that much. as U said u would move back to the US...as a students I still think it trows up more options than say canada or UK. I would imagine that if working in US ultimately is the aim, then having a US degree will help rather than a canadian. Rotmans and Ivey are great schools but they wont work better than say Harvard or Wharton in the US.
My point is that atleast the US has 20,000 H1B Visas for students with masters. Canada doesnt.

puhrincegood points but I can point out some issues with this - MBA from simply any school in the US is wrong, there are tons of schools there but only a top 30 is worth it; among them a few top 10 schools are global brands, the rest are all regional = placements are in and around that area..an MBA in US is not like an MS in Engg. where u can attend any damn school and still get a good job.

regarding the move to Canada, there are 4 great schools here - placements in the Toronto area go through them first, so if u want to move to Canada, you should be attending one of these schools - why would you take the complicated route to come here? but yeah the quality of life is much better here...one good thing is the PR which one can apply during the course of your study too
Of course I am not promoting Canada, but I just encourage everyone to consider it along with UK. I had considered UK schools as well but it would have been a big move for me while Toronto was an easier move.

I hope I was able to guide you all more on this matter - any points/queries are welcome. I am just giving my perspective after having lived in both countries now. I also wish that the immigration problems in US gets resolved since then it will be easy for everyone, and trust me, I would move back to the US too.

[amitchau29]

Peruvianguru:
thanks for the light criticism:
by absolute i did mean the US top schools like the ones u mentioned Harvard, wharton etc. ofcourse grads from all schools become super rich. the best example is bill gates...who never went anywhere. and I am sure as u mentioned Ivey, cambridge etc all have exceptional studentd and managers and will do great in life. however I and most others I know would never choose to go to Ivey over Harvard or Wharton. H/W/S are in a diff league for MBAs...and i am saying this while I have zero chance of ever making it to them. ofcourse u will not feel inferior to the harvard grad but just for the record...U can get into ivey with a gmat of 650....Harvard or wharton would u? secondly harvard and wharton throws up close to 2000 grads in a year. imagine the alumni and networking possibilities. an MbA is important for the networking aspect too. Cambridge judge is a 10-15 year old MBA school with 100 MBA grads a year. its a great school but u can calculate the alumni and networking options.
people in canada are rich and super rich but not as much as in the US. isnt the US the richest country in the world? i agree money isnt the most important aspect..but surely the US economy is the largest in the world and the richest. look at the cities it has...new york, chicago, LA, san francisco, Boston, washington, so many more housten, seatle, vegas, dallas, detroit, philedelphia, new jersey, pittsburg etc ..which other country has so many options.Uk has London.
as far as the fact about an Indian feeling rich with $70,000 in the US. well not after spending 100-140 K on his MBA. an ROI is important after that expense. an Indian mba(IIMs) cost 5k to 10K and grads get salaries from 30k to 200K...so getting and feeling rich with 70k in the US is not great. also many of the Indian applicants for US MBas are already working in the US with tech firms like Infy, tcs, wipro etc...and getting 70k if not more. so why would 70K make an indian feel rich??



KGKId:
the HiB visa option of 20K visas is an option one can consider after doing a US MBA if one still wants to work in the US. nothing is stopping u from moving to canada etc aftre working on the OPt. read the post atleast. as I mntioned after the canadian mba...moving to the US is not an option atleast US offers u some visas. other countrie dont. 20000 students in US are getting jobs atleast. the quota took a month to fill up this year...last year it took 8 months...so where is the problem there?? canada will not have more than 2000 MBA grads in year...whereas in the US just Harvard will have that much. anyway why is everyone so desperate for a H1B visa...the US green card is too long and painful..thats why the canada PR is fine for those wanting to live and stay in north america.

Originally Posted by Peruvianguru
Dear Amit, some light criticism in the form of questions for you:


I am open to constructive criticism, best regards

PGuru

[puhrince]

how many students did you talk to in the Canadian schools? and how many did you talk to in the US schools (outside of top 15)? you will find that they are in the same boat regarding jobs as international students...of course as we all agree, the top10-15 schools in US is a different ball game altogether...and am not comparing Rotman & Ivey to Wharton/Harvard!!

i haven't seen any Rotman international student having a problem getting a job on the 1 yr work permit (OPT equivalent); and yes you can get a PR by the time you graduate if the student is smart enough to file for it as soon as his 1st year starts..so don't make the assumption that one won't get a PR...Ivey became a 1 yr program last year, so obviously u can't get ur PR by the time u graduate but how many join 1 yr programs in North America?

you are missing the point on the 20k H1 quota again - a lot of them are used up by MS students, not MBA..there is no cap on work permits in Canada, so why should they have a separate quota for Masters students?

regarding job search, getting a job has a lot to do with how you do your job search..the more you do and get involved, the more you will get out of it...almost all Indians in my school are working in their summer internships and my seniors all have jobs - the 3 of them that haven't - well to be blunt, they need to get their English speaking skills right; few others just sat and waited to get placed instead of being pro-active by networking, interacting with Canadian students and later they realized their folly...this happens in the US too. Nothing against your friend, but maybe it could have happened to him in US as well. Yes marketing is tough to get into but its the same in US too - a lot of companies look for previous related experience, one can't just jump into that field from engg or IT, like in India.

AS far as Schulich, I don't want to deride them, but it used to be a good school, not anymore..its considered 2nd tier in Canada...I didn't even consider applying there...their placements are nowhere close to Ivey & Rotman, which are the only 2 worth considering. Now that Ivey has become 1 year, I feel Rotman is the only good choice here. Queens is a specialized school (MBA for science & technology) with 65 students as a class size - all of them are scientists and engineers - not exactly a place where I would want to do an MBA unless remaining in the tech field. Rotman has 270 - so obviously all recruiters will come where the mass & diversity is...forget the rest like UBC, McGill, etc..they are again lower tier regional based schools and I didn't mention them in my last post.

BUT right now the main point is not US vs Canada - rather the discussion is about can you take the risk and study in the US, as of NOW? Last year I didn't want to and hence left the place, and I am glad I did..if things were better, I would have stayed. My cousin is going to Wharton this year - I wouldn't say a word about any H1 crap to her bcos the odds of getting H1 are there very high. But if my friends at schools like Duke & Michigan are having problems getting one right now, what do you expect to happen at even lower ranked schools? Thats for you to choose and decide..and for the rest of the international students as well. I wish them all well.

Originally Posted by amitchau29

Puhrince-ofcourse it doesnt mean any school in the US but the reputed ones. Canada doesnt.

[puhrince]

2 things with this - no is comparing these schools to H/S/W..also comparing countries is a little skewed here. London & Toronto depict UK & Canada pretty much..most of the country;s population is based here anyway..US is a totally different thing, and yes the best economy and a much much larger population.

20k H1 quota - i mentioned this in my previous post - I repeat again - most of them are taken by MS students in Engg or COmp Sc - thats where the demand and supply for international students is...this 20k is not for MBA alone.

Do u live in the US? I was wondering where you are getting a lot of your facts from?

Originally Posted by amitchau29

Peruvianguru:
thanks for the light criticism:

[amitchau29]

Puhrince,
good to see a long reply. am sure many applicants have this issue of which country to do the MBA and as much discussion would only help.

That aside, peruvian guy has said that he is choosing to go to Judge cambridge and Ivey over a US top 10...infact he has mentioned H/W/S...that is why I have said that harvard/wharton etc are in a diff league...not that the other schools r bad in any way....they r amazing too and have great programs, competetive and have excellent students...and each studetn has his own location preference in choosing schools and there could be family constraints, course duration, fees etc. as far as the MBA is concerned. but H/W surely has a branding that is unmatched...and am not saying it because H/W are in the US.

U mention the 20K quota is taken up mostly by MS students. i understand that it is on ist case basis...not by what kind of masters u ahve done. last year it was open for 8 months...would an MBA student not get the H1B vis if he applied in that time period? this year too if u applied in april an MBA student would have got it.

thirdly, form ur post about canadian mBa and Rotmans, it seems Rotmans is the only school worth studying an MBA in as far as Canada is concerned. that doesnt leave much choice or options? ivey is one yr. all the others are bad or regional according to u. so if rotmans is not an option for an inetrnational student(for whatever reason-cost-80K i think, gmat, work ex etc) what does a international student do? so is an average US school better or an average canadian school?? by ur reasoning the rest canadian schools are crap. so any schools in canada which are good enuf in your eyes??

and as asked by you...I dont currently live in the US. i dont see how that is an issue in having views? in a global world that is of no concern. but for the record I have lived in the US and travelled to over 15 countries including UK, australia, Europe etc..if that is a qualification required to answer ur questions. i also work in a media MNC and interact with colleagues in the US/Canada/UK/Dubai/HK/singapore. I have taken feedback about MBA/living/work from them too. Also like any Indian, I have tons of friends and family in many major cities outside India..ie US/canada, uk, australia, sing/hk, dubai, sweden...etctctc the usual places. infact many of my clasmates are in the US/Canada/UK/Dubai/singapore and as expected have discussed living/studying/working with them. however despite all that, i think it is great to discuss and share views here and in other discussion forums too as these are dedicated sites with diverse students but with similar aims. and yes I have another view...atleast from the limited world I have seen-New York City(which happens to be in the USA) is the best and greatest city I have ever seen and will ever see. cheers.

[Suvrat]

Originally Posted by puhrince

My cousin is going to Wharton this year - I wouldn't say a word about any H1 crap to her bcos the odds of getting H1 are there very high. But if my friends at schools like Duke & Michigan are having problems getting one right now, what do you expect to happen at even lower ranked schools? Thats for you to choose and decide..and for the rest of the international students as well. I wish them all well.

Passing out from Wharton will ensure that your cousin will get H1 sponsors but getting Visa is subject to lottery, I guess opting for a US B School without a schol is taking a blind risk