Paper by IIMA prof criticizes PGPX

[avomc]

Positioning of ISB and IIM's is totally different. Just look at the current batch profiles and admission criteria , u will figure it for Urself.

[SKP]

While the paper presents nice views and analysis, not every viewpoint seems reasonable. The view that sticking to the pgp program and selecting one in 250 is the only way to serve the country is not a school of thought I would subscribe to. Changing with the requirements of the times is a basic business principle taught in mba courses, and this applies to iims as well. Remember that the iims started pgpx when they found competition in their own backyard from isb. It would be incorrect to say that the iims never felt a bit threatened by isb. Also note how the success of the first batch of pgpx (well at least in placement figures.....time will tell the rest) has created a positive impression in the minds of appplicants today. Mba, as a course does not need to cater only to a few bright minds passed freshly out of iits/nits, but also to the experienced workers who need it the most and pgpx addresses this very well. Applicants who previously had no option of doing an mba in India, excepting going through cat and spending 2 years, can opt for courses like pgpx that have opened up many avenues for them. For the iims too, the profile of pgpx participants is more comparable to foreign b-school participants and I guess this is one of the reasons why iima went for pgpx - to break into the internation forum and make "iima" figure in the radars of the gmat taker in the US and europe. Give it time....and may be this too will happen !!!

Originally Posted by mbawhizz

It particularly comes down heavily on the PGPX program as being a distraction for IIMs. May be important for those considering PGPX as an option to get an insider's viewpoints. Also, from what I heard, not everyone in the first PGPX was happy with the placements.

http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/publicati...7-05rgupta.pdf

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with an MBA. In fact, headed for MS in US. But, was considering an MBA at some point in time and just happened to bump into this paper while surfing the net.

[SKP]

I believe this thread is not another isb vs iim thing. This thread had a different discussion going. A quick look into the profiles and placement figures etc. of isb and iima pgpx will anyway tell you they are not even comparable. I agree isb was the first one year program in India and did well for itself. It would be unfair to even compare them currently.

Originally Posted by loka

Well, no one doubts the need for people at all levels.
But, will one school excel in providing both is the question? To use your own example, the market for both high end luxury and small cars in India is booming. But, does that mean that Mercedes will start producing a small car like Maruti.
My only point is i think no one disputes that IIMs are the no 1 program for freshers. Similarly, as far as No.1 position in one year program goes, it is unlikely that ISB will be dislodged. They are focused and their positioning is clear. If you are willing to settle for No.2, no arguments. The fight is for No.1. Thats the point.

[mbawhizz]

[quote=SKP;785162]While the paper presents nice views and analysis, not every viewpoint seems reasonable. The view that sticking to the pgp program and selecting one in 250 is the only way to serve the country is not a school of thought I would subscribe to. ...quote]

I think you have completely missed the point of the paper. Prof Gupta is in fact strongly arguing that IIMs become more inclusive rather than exclusive. He is infact suggesting that CAT should be made easier to allow candidates with weaker English and Math skills can also be considered. Where does he say "selecting one in 250 is the only way to serve the country"? That is YOUR concoction. What Prof Gupta finds contradictory is that IIMs on the one hand are saying that they are strapped for infrastructure and teaching resources and therefore can't admit more students, while on the other hand they seem be having enough to "pamper" PGPX students with luxurious rooms etc.

As you yourself admit, the decision to start PGPX was driven by the single factor which is competition from ISB. If ISB hadn't happened I can bet my ass that IIMs would NEVER have even comtemplated a PGPX. But, remember from the standpoint of the major stakeholders viz. govt and society at large, for whom Prof Gupta is acting as a representative, IIM v/s ISB is an absoulte non-issue. Therefore, he is not able to fathom why IIMs are spending so much money providing A/C rooms and foreign trips for PGPX students, while both me & you know that IIM is FORCED to do that because ISB is doing it.

[mbawhizz]

Originally Posted by SKP

While the paper presents nice views and analysis, not every viewpoint seems reasonable. The view that sticking to the pgp program and selecting one in 250 is the only way to serve the country is not a school of thought I would subscribe to. ...

I think you have completely missed the point of the paper. Prof Gupta is in fact strongly arguing that IIMs become more inclusive rather than exclusive. He is infact suggesting that CAT should be made easier to allow candidates with weaker English and Math skills can also be considered. Where does he say "selecting one in 250 is the only way to serve the country"? That is YOUR concoction. What Prof Gupta finds contradictory is that IIMs on the one hand are saying that they are strapped for infrastructure and teaching resources and therefore can't admit more students, while on the other hand they seem be having enough to "pamper" PGPX students with luxurious rooms etc.

As you yourself admit, the decision to start PGPX was driven by the single factor which is competition from ISB. If ISB hadn't happened I can bet my ass that IIMs would NEVER have even comtemplated a PGPX. But, remember from the standpoint of the major stakeholders viz. govt and society at large, for whom Prof Gupta is acting as a representative, IIM v/s ISB is an absoulte non-issue. Therefore, he is not able to fathom why IIMs are spending so much money providing A/C rooms and foreign trips for PGPX students, while both me & you know that IIM is FORCED to do that because ISB is doing it.

[avomc]

They have already increased the fees. Currently, Its double the fee of the first batch. Subsidy doesnt hold any more relevance in this context.

Originally Posted by ajithsmiles

If IIM A PGPx is grossly subsidized why cant they increase the Fee. If it is worth taking ( as the author points out PGPx junta is getting the benifits of IIM brand name) People will join, right?.

[avomc]

Is everyone at everyother school happy with their placements? Can it be measured?

End of the day we resort to aggregate placements figures which many found impressive.

Originally Posted by mbawhizz

It particularly comes down heavily on the PGPX program as being a distraction for IIMs. May be important for those considering PGPX as an option to get an insider's viewpoints. Also, from what I heard, not everyone in the first PGPX was happy with the placements.

http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/publicati...7-05rgupta.pdf

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with an MBA. In fact, headed for MS in US. But, was considering an MBA at some point in time and just happened to bump into this paper while surfing the net.

[SKP]

I assume you will agree that the paper clearly suggests increasing seats for pgp programs is the primary route that iims should take. I was referring to that. If you object to my statement of the intake ratio as it stands, I take it back. Regarding IIMs spending on ac rooms for pgpx students, the paper(from july 2006) is not too relevant today after iima has inceased its pgpx fees to 10 lacs and then 14 lacs. Even after accounting for inflation, I guess pgpx is now paying for itself.

Originally Posted by mbawhizz

I think you have completely missed the point of the paper. Prof Gupta is in fact strongly arguing that IIMs become more inclusive rather than exclusive. He is infact suggesting that CAT should be made easier to allow candidates with weaker English and Math skills can also be considered. Where does he say "selecting one in 250 is the only way to serve the country"? That is YOUR concoction. What Prof Gupta finds contradictory is that IIMs on the one hand are saying that they are strapped for infrastructure and teaching resources and therefore can't admit more students, while on the other hand they seem be having enough to "pamper" PGPX students with luxurious rooms etc.

As you yourself admit, the decision to start PGPX was driven by the single factor which is competition from ISB. If ISB hadn't happened I can bet my ass that IIMs would NEVER have even comtemplated a PGPX. But, remember from the standpoint of the major stakeholders viz. govt and society at large, for whom Prof Gupta is acting as a representative, IIM v/s ISB is an absoulte non-issue. Therefore, he is not able to fathom why IIMs are spending so much money providing A/C rooms and foreign trips for PGPX students, while both me & you know that IIM is FORCED to do that because ISB is doing it.

[The Raven]

Originally Posted by SKP

Regarding IIMs spending on ac rooms for pgpx students, the paper(from july 2006) is not too relevant today after iima has inceased its pgpx fees to 10 lacs and then 14 lacs. Even after accounting for inflation, I guess pgpx is now paying for itself.

Did you check the date of publication of the article ? It is July, 2006. Keep this context in mind while evaluating statements made by the professor.

[avomc]

Good observation Raven.

However u seem to have failed to notice the some more figures :
conclusions are made based on 8 Lac Fee.
it mentions that the course is subsidized by 2 Crores : 2.5 -3 lac per participant.

Currently, Fee has been increased by 6 Lacs.
No of Participants also has been increased which brings down some costs.

Originally Posted by The Raven

Did you check the date of publication of the article ? It is July, 2006. Keep this context in mind while evaluating statements made by the professor.