Specialised Masters and MSc. Management courses in UK...

[ankursuri]

well, kinda late in the day for me to be joinin in but just wanted to get opinions on MSc Management degrees.... I've applied to and got admission to the MSc. Management program at Bath.
well, my choice was governed by the following factors. hope these help you n you can reciprocate with some fundas of your own
1. consistent undergrad ranking in times, guardian... amongst top 5- for pre-work ex courses lik Masters, undergrad rankings have value, if not as much, but equal to MBA rankings.
2.location-located around bristol(has a port... means available jobs), also, near a mid-size town lik bath. location near a city matters in industry linkages. therefore, places lik st. andrews lose out as do lancaster and to some extent warwick.
3. info/data provided on student placements- bath is very transparent on the employement scene with names of companies actively recruiting on campus listed on the website... unlike more highly rated counterparts like warwick
4.brand- it is a relatively new university in indian minds, hence, i would be competing not with other indian students but with chinese n other asian students with bad english language skills for the few available jobs for overseas students. places like warwick seem to have been saturated with people from DU.. i know atleast 5 from my own college going there for eco-finance n finance.(seems pretty easy to get in there for us people in india)
5. history of the course-my course at bath was started in 1996 in its present form. therefore, you know what to expect. newer courses lik the ones in imperial are basically crap.
6. MBA rankings- look for a consistent ranker
7. Overall university profile-going outside the top 10-15 universities in the overall league tables is akin to rejectin potential employers
8. focus on what is your objective regarding the course- for entry into the job market, an educational experience, fun trip, work ex, technical knowledge
9. never underestimate niche b-schools- places lik cass n ICMA at reading for investment banking, strathclyde n cranfield for marketing, imperial for entreprenuerial credentials(read family business), warwick for eco streams, aston for Org. Behav....
10. try and avoid big ticket ventures lik LSE, Kings, Imperial if possible... they are nothin more than buildings churnin out classes lik you're sittin in good old connaught place, doing some correspondence course. enjoy the experience of studyin abroad. it wont happen in london.
11. from all recent reports about the Fresh talent scheme for scotland, its just become another outlet for firms to get graduates on as low paid trainees, not to mention the lack of proper jobs in scotland, as opposed to plentiful part-time work.
lemme know if this was any help... i'm as always, keepin a keen eye out on the masters scene in the uk.
Ankur

[anandbatra]

3. info/data provided on student placements- bath is very transparent on the employement scene with names of companies actively recruiting on campus listed on the website... unlike more highly rated counterparts like warwick

I think Warwick is quite transparent. They're the part of the G5+1 or the G6(LSE, Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, Imperial, Warwick). So, if you are looking out for investment banking as a career, then seriously consider only the above 6 and Cass.

For the record, I was rejected by Warwick.

i would be competing not with other indian students but with chinese n other asian students with bad english language skills for the few available jobs for overseas students. places like warwick seem to have been saturated with people from DU..

That's like saying that one shouldn't go to the IIMs, because one will have to compete with IIT grads for jobs.

newer courses lik the ones in imperial are basically crap.

I think it depends upon the faculty. Imperial has a big reputation. Even though Tanaka rep isn't as big as Imperial's rep, none of its courses can be called crap. If you check the placements for that course, you'd see that most of the people joining the program get jobs in the UK.

9. never underestimate niche b-schools- places lik cass n ICMA at reading for investment banking

True. Though I would not recommend ICMA to anyone. But, yes, Cass is brilliant for its specialist masters programs. Programs like MTF are rated highly in the industry.

10. try and avoid big ticket ventures lik LSE, Kings, Imperial if possible... they are nothin more than buildings churnin out classes lik you're sittin in good old connaught place, doing some correspondence course. enjoy the experience of studyin abroad. it wont happen in london.

I would strongly disagree with that. LSE has its halls next to Trafalgar Square, British Museum, Tottenham court Road, Tate Modern, The thames etc. I'll be staying at a hall next to the British Museum, Senate House, School of African and Oriental studies, Tottenham Court Road, Birbeck College, University College London etc.

Even before I've been to the course, I've met 6-7 people who'll be doing similar courses. 2 are from IIT, 1 is from SRCC, 1 is from Italy, 1 is from Bahrain, 1 is from the UK. LSE has got a 6 floor library, with the highest number of books on social science in the world. So, it's not exactly like doing a correspondence course.

Though I would say that the new building of Cass is at the best location. Right in the middle of Canary Wharf, next to where one would want to work for the rest of his/her life.

[ankursuri]

Originally Posted by anandbatra

I think Warwick is quite transparent. They're the part of the G5+1 or the G6(LSE, Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, Imperial, Warwick). So, if you are looking out for investment banking as a career, then seriously consider only the above 6 and Cass.

For the record, I was rejected by Warwick.

well, your observation about the above six is accepted. however, oxford cambridge have historically never had specialist masters. its the goodwill of their enormous reputation as universities that makes them appeal to potential employers. warwick, i dare say have a serious image problem at hand. they're considered to be top in research, but their increasing efforts at overseas or rather asian recruitment is seen as another example of Warwick PLC rather than the university of warwick at work. and i would have advised you to re-apply thru their india office as i have known a few who've done it n got in after being rejected.

That's like saying that one shouldn't go to the IIMs, because one will have to compete with IIT grads for jobs.
well i think its a totally wrong comparison. comparisons cant be done in environments with external restrictions. having more indians in your university can be good in a lot of ways but when you venture out for a job then it can prove to be a hindrance with ever decreasing graduate recruitment numbers of top consultancies n popular graduate employers.


I think it depends upon the faculty. Imperial has a big reputation. Even though Tanaka rep isn't as big as Imperial's rep, none of its courses can be called crap. If you check the placements for that course, you'd see that most of the people joining the program get jobs in the UK.

here i'm talking about their MSc. Management program. its course content can hardly be called comprehensive, or for that matter, rigourous. it emphasises too much on the business plan as part of the course, devoting a major part of the course time to it. not good enough for me as we in du i guess are quite efficient with business plans.




True. Though I would not recommend ICMA to anyone. But, yes, Cass is brilliant for its specialist masters programs. Programs like MTF are rated highly in the industry.



I would strongly disagree with that. LSE has its halls next to Trafalgar Square, British Museum, Tottenham court Road, Tate Modern, The thames etc. I'll be staying at a hall next to the British Museum, Senate House, School of African and Oriental studies, Tottenham Court Road, Birbeck College, University College London etc.

Even before I've been to the course, I've met 6-7 people who'll be doing similar courses. 2 are from IIT, 1 is from SRCC, 1 is from Italy, 1 is from Bahrain, 1 is from the UK. LSE has got a 6 floor library, with the highest number of books on social science in the world. So, it's not exactly like doing a correspondence course.

Though I would say that the new building of Cass is at the best location. Right in the middle of Canary Wharf, next to where one would want to work for the rest of his/her life.

you're point about canary wharf i very true. what i was emphasising about was that university life can best be experienced on campus only. living amongst university towns like oxford, st. andrews, cambridge, etc. life in london n the big cities like manchester is another experience, which for me, personally can wait till the time i start working. its not just about sight seeing. its a lot more than museums, theatres, castles. and i hope you're gettin my point.

[Peruvianguru]

Dear friends:

Nice thread. Although this website is primarily aimed at discussing MBA programs, there is a wide range of alternative (and equally attractive) degrees in management that are worthy of attention. In my case, I have found this amazing MSc at LSE. check it out at

MSc Management, Organisations and Governance - Taught programmes - Graduate Prospectus - Graduate Admissions - LSE

I will definitely apply to LSE. Thankfully, applicants are not required to submit freaking-useless GMAT scores (pls somebody tell me with well thought and convincing arguments what does that crappo measure...) though very high professional and academic standards are set by LSE for admission.

This course might not be an option for hardcore MBA seekers. However, those of you interested in public policy-business intersections will find challenging and exciting courses in this MSc. So I expect some Indian friends will consider giving LSE and this degree a shot. For me, its crystal clear. LSE.... wait for me in 2008!!!!

Cheers

PGuru

[anandbatra]

Originally Posted by ankursuri

and i would have advised you to re-apply thru their india office as i have known a few who've done it n got in after being rejected.

I did intend to re-apply. However, I got into the LSE. That was the end of the Warwick re-application process. Even Bath had rejected me. Apparently, they do not consider GMAT scores for admission(That's what Study Overseas people told me).

Originally Posted by ankursuri

its a lot more than museums, theatres, castles. and i hope you're gettin my point.

Yeah, quite a lot of people prefer campus universities. However, I've lived all my life in Mumbai, so I'm used to the fast paced life of a big city. I'm not sure I'll be able to adjust to a campus lifestyle.

well i think its a totally wrong comparison. comparisons cant be done in environments with external restrictions. having more indians in your university can be good in a lot of ways but when you venture out for a job then it can prove to be a hindrance with ever decreasing graduate recruitment numbers of top consultancies n popular graduate employers.

Since there is no campus recruitment as such, employers wouldn't compare you with your fellow university mates. They'll compare you with a large pool of similar applicants from other universities. They don't have a particular quota for each university. So, it won't matter to employers if your university mates are from the same country. What they look at is you- the applicant, and you alone. This is what I learnt from my research on thestudentroom.co.uk and ibtalk.com(traders' haven).

[anandbatra]

Originally Posted by Peruvianguru

This course might not be an option for hardcore MBA seekers. However, those of you interested in public policy-business intersections will find challenging and exciting courses in this MSc. So I expect some Indian friends will consider giving LSE and this degree a shot. For me, its crystal clear. LSE.... wait for me in 2008!!!!

Cheers

PGuru

LSE will be amazing. I'll be going there in September, if I get 60% in my third year exams.

I just can't wait to meet Professor Sudipto Bhattacharya. If I do fulfill LSE's conditions, then he'll be my corp. finance professor.

[Peruvianguru]

Originally Posted by anandbatra

LSE will be amazing. I'll be going there in September, if I get 60% in my third year exams.

I just can't wait to meet Professor Sudipto Bhattacharya. If I do fulfill LSE's conditions, then he'll be my corp. finance professor.

Dear Anand:

Congratulations on your admission to LSE!!! getting that 60% shouldnt be a problem knowing that the home of F. Von Hayek is expecting you with open arms. I am starting my app. paperwork now so I am able to submit it in early October. Ill apply for scholarships offered by the Inter-American Dev. and World Banks and am confident on being both admitted and funded. LSE, those three letters that will open doors everytime, everywhere! keep the hard work and best of luck at school.

PGuru

PS. I visited Mumbai in Feb. 2006. Was based at a backpackers place in Colaba sector, near Taj Hotel and India Gate. The crows flying around are fun to watch as well as the pretty girls I met at Insomnia disco. wow! Dancing "gasolina" reggaeton beats mixed with Aasheeq Banaya was quite an experience...

[ankursuri]

well its great guys that you've got places in lse. one thing for sure with lse is that they place a lot of importance on acads n that would always hold you in good stead. also, LSE with its unique social science perspective in management issues is a great place to be not just if you're looking for a job with the big consultancies but also if you're planning to pursue academic research. and do use lse's links as part of CEMS to utilise the exchanges with top ranking institutions like HEC Paris, ESADE in spain, n SDA Bocconi in italy. best of luck you guys... and keep the thread going!

[adaha]

Hi Guys
Well I am too coming for MSC IT & Business management.
I am a BCA graduate currently working with a Top IT company with over 2.5 yrs exp in S/w Quality Assurance & testing.
Collages on My list for MSC IT& management:
1. Manchester( prog structure is ok but name is big)
2. Lanchester( liked the prog structure)
3. Aston( again the prog str is good)
4. Warwic( Prog str is good)
Friends let me know if i there are any more good collages for MSC IT& management prog and also what should be the order of preference

Reason for Chosing Msc prog:

Well i am much inclined towards working in IT field and would like to grow towards Business Analyst /Consultant role post Msc.

Reason No 1: For me Msc seemed more feasible becoze i simply cannot afford an MBA prog not this year not next year as it goes well beyond 16lac to the least and even more in top collages, Msc prog comes well under 10 lac.

Reson No 2: I assume that MSC Prog from likes of Manchester , will surely give a boost to my career. I have realized that growth is directly proportional not only to the hard work but also to the degree u possess( I am a BCA and i have seen MSC/MCA/BE guys moving up the ladder much faster.)


So i have choice between a MSC prog from a very good univ like Manchester OR MBA from a lower valued B school like Abrdeen which costs some 9 lac.
I have decided for Msc, this way i can atleast have a reasonable chance to get into the IT field and move towards Biz Analysis /consulting , MSc will give me most needed masters degree, which i dont have and realized that its importance when it comes to growth.

Now Worst case scenario/s:
WCS-1:
I don’t get the kind of profile I want post Msc in UK ( Biz Analyst/consultant) , but having 3 yrs exp in testing& QA in ERP/database, I can at least think of getting job in the same spectrum with better pay in UK. Now wont that be possible

WCS-2:
I don’t get any JOB in UK , well Middle east is one place where i can try , especially Dubai which is a growing and has got plenty of jobs to offer in IT arena.

WCS-3:
I don’t get job even in Middle east , so need to come back to India, well even than its not that bad after all, I mean with 3 yrs exp + a masters from lets say Manchester , I can expect to get a good job at least here , where IT industry is growing each coming day.

Now if I think I cant even get a descent job back home, I better jump off from the building right now..lol

Normally if one does an MBA IT here in India, it come easily to 7 lac for 2 yrs and in the likes of ICFIA it come to 9+ lac.
So doesn’t it make more sense to do an MSC IT & B from UK top collages, that are world renowned, At least I am giving myself a fair chance to prove myself.

Huh! This is my story. Now I want critics to have their say! Guys please pour in your thoughts and lets see if we can refine this any further.

And yes No Msc can replace a charm of an MBA degree, I too would like to go for one but from the best in class, may be 5 yrs down the line!

Cheers,
a!

[reneg@de]

you could check out the ADMIS course at LSE. Thats MSc in Analysis Design and Management of Information Systems. Its a very interesting course.. see if it fits what your looking for.

generally.. yes .. an MBA is any day more glamorous than an MSc.. but an MSc is a specialisation not just a managerial course that touches on a lot of aspects like an MBA.. so rather than look at MSc as a cheaper alternative for an MBA.. look at it because you are particularly interested in an area.. say- IT management in your case...

even if you do an MSc in a general stream like say .. MSc management... see if that particular course offers somethign unique in nature.. like its courses or approach.. otherwise it just ends up as a cheaper alternative to an MBA which may not offer great prospects...