MBA Application Essays : Of Self-Introspection,Insights and other flaff

[inblue]

Guys, as much as I agree with this profile database thing, I have a different thought that I would want to share

How much does the profile really really really matter ?

Its pretty much the same right for most of us , right ?
I mean all of us have almost similar profiles ( barring a few exceptions - cyro defititely is one) . We are about 25 - 30 , worked in different sectors, done something different , etc.. etc. ( not to mention have decent GMAT scores )

I think more than the profile , what matters is how you present the story - how interesitng it is and how much the adcom belives in it.

What your failure is , how much have you actually learnt from failing and helped others learn from it. What your passion is - how much do you spread it ? How does it help you be a better person ?

Failures, passions, events are really really beyond the scope of a bulleted profile. They are YOURS , they are the application. ( this is what I belive ) I agree its your job, the adventures and your rise in the profession that brings events but having risen to a level the events are strictly personal and unique.

I guess, it is more of how much soul searching you do , how much heart pouring you undertake and how many outstanding/personal/ true events you present to your evaluators and let them see your personality.

What do other Pagals say ?

[Susie Derkins]

Originally Posted by inblue

<snip>
What do other Pagals say ?

Hmm... true.. except I wouldn't put it that way... it's more about writing like an educated person... blowing things out of proportion... eg. some stupid failure in office... try to milk out some grand inights from that... about the sort of leader you wanna be... in short.. people should rate their ability to bull**** in a sophisticated way

[iday]

Originally Posted by Susie Derkins

Hmm... true.. except I wouldn't put it that way... it's more about writing like an educated person... blowing things out of proportion... eg. some stupid failure in office... try to milk out some grand insights from that... about the sort of leader you wanna be... in short.. people should rate their ability to bull**** in a sophisticated way

susie - u really make it sound as though every line of every submitted essay is total BS. Many don't write their apps that way. I did not and i know many many others who did not. I've heard of ppl who wrote whatever they had, got dinged, obtained feedback, slogged their assess off to fill the holes in their profile before the next application and got through. There are many who have real incidents to speak about in our essays.

As I've already said, ur opinions might help those who find it difficult to fill in essays. But please dont make it sound like the common/usual thing. I think (or rather believe) the majority of us applied with solid achievements and had true incidents to speak about. I don't wanna mislead people, especially those who still have time in front of them to build a strong profile that will help them present a competitive application to their dream schools.

In a way, yes, i do take serious offence from that post of urs.
Apologies if i have mininterpreted it

[Susie Derkins]

Originally Posted by iday

susie - u really make it sound as though every line of every submitted essay is total BS. Many don't write their apps that way. I did not and i know many many others who did not. I've heard of ppl who wrote whatever they had, got dinged, obtained feedback, slogged their assess off to fill the holes in their profile before the next application and got through. There are many who have real incidents to speak about in our essays.

I'm not saying one has to cook up incidents... the incidents could be real but very often one has to cook up the insights.. Now I am sure if you speak to Medha Patkar or Kiran Bedi or entreupreuners (whatever be the spelling!), they'll have genuine deep insights about themselves and about every significant incident their work has exposed them to.. As a cubicle worker, most people learn just 2 things 1) when/whom to suck up to 2) when to shut up. Few, very, very few sit down and think deeply. Few at 25-30 know more about themselevs than what they knew when they were 15!! And I don't buy that BS quote that we, each one of us, are all entreupreuners in a way... there's some leadership quote like... that don't remember but you get the meaning...

And about improving profile in 1 yr... bah! Do they start companies? At the most they suck up and get some international assignment... More often than not they just learn to write well.. or get a darn good reviewer...

Originally Posted by iday

As I've already said, ur opinions might help those who find it difficult to fill in essays.

Errr... 99% of the applicants!!

Originally Posted by iday

But please dont make it sound like the common/usual thing. I think (or rather believe) the majority of us applied with solid achievements and had true incidents to speak about.

Like I said earlier... I'm not telling people to fabricate incidents.. just make up insights because I know most people don't take themselves so seriously to actually keep introspecting... when you write solid insights, it shows that you have the good sense to know what insights an evolving leader should possess... the fact that you recognise it is acknowledged by adcomm and you get selected... I'm sure they don't buy that you *really* had those insights

Originally Posted by iday

I don't wanna mislead people, especially those who still have time in front of them to build a strong profile that will help them present a competitive application to their dream schools.

True.. they must build a good profile... but profiles are meant for resumes only... but good essays needed to get you in... 99% people should follow my advice for winning essays... coz I believe that 99% are shallow like me

Originally Posted by iday

In a way, yes, i do take serious offence from that post of urs.
Apologies if i have mininterpreted it

Well.. offending people is second nature to me Luckily this is the net and I can rest comfortably behind a nick!

[iday]

Originally Posted by Susie Derkins

Well.. offending people is second nature to me Luckily this is the net and I can rest comfortably behind a nick!

Unless there is someone like me who could call u to say "Susie - check this post and let me know what ya think" there goes ur anonymity

Though i agree that all the points you mention could happen to any body, i mean - anyone could be shallow (thanks for the word), i just cannot believe that a majority (let alone 99%) of the applicants would be shallow

I guess it is a simple case of looking the world thru 2 different sets of eyes

[Oxymoron]

Originally Posted by Susie Derkins

As a cubicle worker, most people learn just 2 things 1) when/whom to suck up to 2) when to shut up. Few, very, very few sit down and think deeply

Ha ha...Agree with you in toto! Actually I didnt do the first two things and sat and thought "very very deeply"...only to come to the conclusion that I should have done the first two... [1]

Maybe it's just the cynical me ( or some of us ) but the only 'insight" I have gained so far ( and oh let me assure you many a "deep thoughts" I have had..) that almost everything is a farce. Well some of us realize it and some dont...perhaps some of us share an attitude towards life which is best explained by this post
2x3x7: The Parable of the Desert

Well so much for "insights". I remember arguing with Psychodementia the unusual emphasis given on the "social service" bit..I belong to the coterie of people who think the mere idea of talking about is ridiculous [2]...and I can scarcely mention the "insight" I had which made me walk away from the middle of a class room ( I used to be part of such an institution in chennai..starting with U..)

Sure one swallow or a few swallows doesnt a summer make but you cant blame us to get cynical whenever a mention of the word "insight" is brought up...

Girish...!

Note : 1. Yes I recently had my "appraisal meeting" . The "insights" from that deserve a thread on it's own..
2. If not talking about is going to put me into a disadvantage then I am not going to buck the trend...this was to illustrate the "insight" I had and what will probably be in the essay...sometimes there is a very thin line between "pragmatism","hypocrisy" and "honesty"...assuming even one is naive enough to believe that the last three can be expressed universally and objectively...

[cracked-it]

Originally Posted by Oxymoron

sometimes there is a very thin line between "pragmatism","hypocrisy" and "honesty"...assuming even one is naive enough to believe that the last three can be expressed universally and objectively...

You have hit the bulls eye. Here is an example of what I wrote for the first college that I applied and the fifth college.

Context: Reason for job change
First college: Opportunity to work in better technology

Fifth college: (After developing 'insight'!!):
After spending one year into the industry, I had the foresight to realize that Java was the technology of the future. I researched some of the best companies around and decided to pursue my next job in XXX, the first internet company in India that did state of the art work in ecommerce with clients such as XXX. And in March 1999, I joined the Java bandwagon at XXX.

[iday]

susie, oxymoron and cracked-it,

I could hot hold back

As a cubicle worker, most people learn just 2 things 1) when/whom to suck up to 2) when to shut up.

I don't agree to that at all.

Before even moving on to justify this statement of mine, i must say that i have been in one company all my life, fought almost all kind of "regular issues of the IT industry", seen many of my friends in different IT industries who've again had to face similar issues at one time or the other. The point is - this is all not theory.

My simple question is "If these are the two things ppl learn inside a cubicle, and i assume all these ppl hate to do these two things, why dont u get a move on?" That's where the thought process kicks in. If you were in a situation where you had to suck up to some one, or u had to shut up - what did you think about it? what did you do about it???

I believe almost everyone comes across such situations - i did. I am not gonna say what i did in these situations, but lets just say i stood true to myself and came out well. I must also admit that i was lucky to have really good men around me during the early stages of my career, the inputs of whom helped a lot of my thought process in these situations.

In this very forum, i can point to numerous ppl who have been in these situations and done everything but suck up to ppl or the situation. Neither did they shut up. If I do either, i don't believe i am going anywhere in my life. i'd just be earning alright. you know - it is just like the difference between living ur life and mere existence.

In a way - this can probably be seen as a good pointer to those who are early in their career, thinking about GMAT and MBA two or three years from now. Do not suck up to ppl at work - you'll only end up being in more such situations. You dont have to. Ask questions - the results will be different. Ask questions to these ppl and ask questions to yourself - the biggest of all would be "Is this what i wanna do?". I posted the following message in a diff thread and i guess it makes sense to post it here again

Your passions, over time, make ur profile. You basically follow your passions and work on them. Generally - people who's work and passion are the same end up being very very good in what they do. If u think u r not cut for the IT job, think what u wanna do and pursue it.

And the secret behind landing a good B School admit is not having a unique profile. It is to have a strong profile.

The very fact that the US schools expect you to have a little amount of experience before u apply is to see how you have evolved during these years. Have you found ur passion, have you excelled, have you found something you did not like and if yes - what have you done about it, have you changed yourself or have you changed the surroundings (both - for the better of course), have you failed - if yes, how did you come out of it, have you failed again - was it for the same reason, if yes - why did it happen again. The essays of diff schools want to ask diff questions - based on the kind of ppl they wanna admit.

If we have worked for 'n' years in one or more companies and have nothing to fill in these essays - i'd be extremely surprised. I have seen essays of at least 20 or more people, and very very few had issues in filling up the space. many of us had issues with the space being too less.

[inblue]

I .. Boy ! Can I agree better.

Now I agree there's a lot that happens in a cubicle. atleast it happened in mine. Like I has already said, in 3 years a lot will happen - a lot doesn't have to be big.

It really hasn't got to be a very great incident- only your introspection has to be profound.

[Oxymoron]

Iday I am just amused at the usage of the world insight.. And using your argument if my "insight" says that most of the things are superficial and comes from the human nature to seek "deeper meaning" and inability to come to terms with the apathy of the universe and most of it is a self delusion to create a higher purpose and meaning....yada yada..

See what I mean? My "insight" projects an Absurdist view ( no not Nihilistic ) and I am not being "shallow"..quite sincere as 99% of all applicants...

The point is,and this is where I totally acquiesce with Susie and cracked-it there are some type of "insights" which adcomm expect and some they "most likely" wouldnt...
I am not saying that my "insights" are any day more correct ( well actually they are more objective but lets leave that out of this discussion.. ) or others are faking it up...sure they might have thought they genuinely had an epiphanic moment ...good for them ...

Originally Posted by Iday

n this very forum, I can point to numerous ppl who have been in these situations and done everything but suck up to ppl or the situation. Neither did they shut up. If I do either, i don't believe i am going anywhere in my life. i'd just be earning alright. you know - it is just like the difference between living ur life and mere existence.

Ah you misconstrue me (us? )....no one is advocating to "suck up" or "shut up" It ultimately depends on the personal value system ( why you claimed you were true to yourself and if a person's value system is sycophancy and obsequiousness and he is "true" to it what make's his "honesty" less superior to yours? Sure you might like to avoid him like a plague that's your choice. But on whose moral code can you say his is not an equally tenable attitude towards life? No this isn't for the sake of argument...we see plenty of them in life and don't hesitate to "judge them" ( well at least I didnt hesitate some years back...now much wiser! )

Anyway the point is "honesty","idealism" etc are extremely relative. And there is no "truth" but truths. ( Perhaps this is the only truth! ) So I am pretty skeptical and cynical about the "be yourself" bit.

I mean really...does anyone of the ppl who got admitted seriously believe they got an admit for "what they are" rather than what they "projected"? ( Sure there could be cases where both were same and importantly fitted the kind of acceptable "insights" ).

And isnt above a no brainer..?

Girish...!