The great wars of our past

[j0]

Great piece there Peshwa. I've never really read up much on Indian history, but that was a really nice account.

Yeah the 6 day war was quite a rout, Israel took out 309 of a total 340 planes that the Egyptian AirForce had... before they even got off the ground.
The Egyptians had their wings clipped in one vicious sustained air-raid.
In one day Israel had complete air superiority over a superiorly armed enemy.
Insult to injury Nasser couldn't even begin to let any of his countrymen know of this disaster, and ended up suckering in more forces to join him from Jordan and Syria without any air-cover.
Never have such a multitude of nations, agressing on the land of another been so miserably smashed and yielded their own territory in the ignominy.
If you want more info, I'm a big fan of wikipedia for just bout nethin.I've not read too many great accounts online...descriptive ones that is, but if you just want a basic idea of what went down you'll get it here.

Bout Rommel, i personally like him coz I think I love his name as I do most of those sexy, throaty names the Germans had for their forces...Luftwaffe, Wehrmacht, Panzer, too good. This tendency might have some root in me having a Germanic name
But that apart the man was a military genius, who would sadly get tangled up in petty politics thanks to his lesser compatriots.
His leadership of Afrikaan Korps inspite of having to contend with the ineptitude of the Italian loverboys needs to admired.
Yes the scale of the fighting was miniscule, but that is because the fighting in the west and the russian east was mostly in the cities, where destruction was maximised.

In the Sahara it was pure desert warfare, and thats where his superior military tactics n his ingenuity came on display.
The way he used the elements, his armored sandstorms and the deceit he used to get inside the range of the big guns by blistering attacks and decoys is worth a read.
How can you call the Battle of El-Amein a small skirmish, the only reason Rommel lost was because the pace of his attacks was so high that his supply train got left behind.
He was pushed back only coz Montgomery cut his supply lines which sadly were entrusted to those Italians on the coast. Poor fellow ran out of fuel n armament.
For the greatest tactical n pure military battles look no further.

Chal keep it coming.

[donB]

Originally Posted by The Peshwa

The site is Here
Awesome description folks

I remember this battle being covered in that tele serial - The Great Maratha!! The article is right though...this battle effectively softened up most opposition that might have been for the British to take over. The exception being Tippu Sultan and Hyder Ali

[The Peshwa]

@ j0 : Yes Rommel's battles are worth a read , because the british and the american author's primarily wrote about him!
Throughout 1942 , they only fought with Rommel in the african desert ,while the russians were begging for a second front in western europe

As i said before for the british and the americans these were "important battles"
(and they would have been had Hitler recognized the importance of the Suez canal)
but hitler was scarcely concerned about them .
The whole african adventure was a result of his cardborad ally Mussolini ,who wanted a share of England's empire in africa.
Hitler was too busy regrouping his scattered armies from the horrible russian winter in early 1942 to bother about the africa korps.
Moral - British and American ineptitude in fighting a lone German General with a pathetic italian force under him lead rommel to become a Great General

No doubt Rommel was a good general (who had to manage with the spaghetti nibbling italians ,who didnt have either the spirit nor the ability to fight!)
and most importantly was a nice human being
(in fact when he discovered the full depth of the Nazi war crimes in the east , he was involved in a plot to assasinate Hitler ,which failed and Hitler put Rommel to death)
But to call Rommel the best would be a travesty of justice.

The best was Guderian under the command of Von runstedt.
If u remember WW1 when the germans fought the french for 4 years over a more or less static front .This time though Guderian broke through the bad Ardennes territory in Belgium ,crossing north of the Maginot Line and destroying the french resistence in a matter of 14 days!
That to me is one of the greatest military assaults in the history of man.

His Blitz towards Moscow in 1941 ,( with the Russian armies and air force almost destroyed completely )was procedding at an incredible rate and trust me had he taken the capital ,Stalin would have probably capitulated.

But unfortunately Hitler was more concerned about seizing the "Russian Bread Basket" in Kiev and ordered Guderian's panzers to move south (this did cause massive russian destruction and famine but it would never have caused Russia to capitulate cause Stalin had no one to fear ,he had murdered all his opponents and dictators dont give a damn about their ppl suffering ! ).
The extra time gave Zhukov an oppurtunity to bring in the Winter -Hardy Siberian troops into excellent defensive positions around the city plus winter set in and the german panzers were of no use . The Soviets escaped by a whisker!

P.S : The Egyptian air disaster was incredible I think only the complete destruction of the Red Air Force of a 1000 planes by the Luftwaffe at the outset of the German Invasion in 1941 comes close , but the russians atleast had miles of terrority to defend and suck the invaders in ! But i believe the Egyptians got their own back in 1973 by launching a surprise invasion .It seems they mobilised and de-mobilised 20 times before invading so much so that the Israelis were tired of playing wolf wolf all the time , however one mobilisation was real !

[donB]

Another reasons for Rommels popularity in the African war was coz he was pitted against Gen Patton and Field Marshall Montgomery...given half a chance they two wudve torn apart each other!! There was an intense rivalry between them to best Rommel.

Talking about Ardennes, the Battle of the Bulge where the Germans threw 250000men in a winter offensive against a chink in the Allied lines in Dec 2004. That was when Patton who was leading the 3rd Army on a sweep across the south of Europe towards Berlin turned the entire Army around North and went to rescue the 101st Airborne at Bastogne. [part of this is depicted in the Band of Brothers].

[estranged_gnrs]

@j0-i dont have a idiot box at my place.so history channel is out of bounds for me.

anyone can post about Hannibal ? who gave a tough time to romans. I want to know about the battles,before the advent of gunpowder.when fighting was more about guts,skills and one-up manship.face to face battles.

Rohit.

P.S. Peshwa and others,i hope its all right to post our queries here.is it? or we just need to post about battles.

[rajatb]

not quite agree with you on all the points

Originally Posted by The Peshwa

Couldnt agree more regarding the air- raids .
But again hitler never wanted to invade England .
He was a racist at heart , an alliance with his "racial cousins" the British was foremost in his mind.
After knocking out the French ,he wanted to scare the Brits into signing some kind of peace treaty by using the air raids. They backfired as his luftwaffe was built primarily as a support tool for his tanks not an effective device for mass bombing (which was accompolished later on by the american bomber planes)
Also the fact that the British discovered an effective Radar system

Not quite ,the Luftwaffe had the capability to finish off the RAF,at one time the RAF's losses were so high that thay did not have enough pilots to fill the planes with.It was only Hitlers stupidity that he shifted from attacking the British airfields to their cities that gave the RAF valuable breathing space...

[/quote] Hitler inept militarily as he was never understood the importance of the Suez Canal ., obessed as he was in grabbing "Liebenstraum" in the east.
The best general in WW2 was undoubtedly Heinz Guderian.

In fact had Hitler given him a free role , not only would he have bagged the brits in dunquerque but also probably his panzers would have taken Moscow well before the first flakes of snow fell in the horrible winter of 1941 .Hitler wasted time by ordering him to move down south and close the Kiev packet ,which seized fertile lands for the nazis no doubt but in the long run ended all hopes of any victory in the east

[/quote]

One of the key reasons in the loss in Russia was that the Germans attacked in July and not in May as originally planned,they had to postpone the invasion because Cyprus proved to be a pain in the neck.The British fleet operating out of Cyprus inflicted heavy losses on the Nazis so that they first had to capture Cyprus and Greece and then move onto Moscow.They reached within 40 miles of Moscow before the Russian winter did them in ,had they started 2 months early
Moscow would have fallen ....

[The Peshwa]

@ Estranged , need to read some more about Hannibal , saw his documentary
on the history channel ,seems a real tough SOB , the romans were scared shit of him

Originally Posted by rajatb

Not quite ,the Luftwaffe had the capability to finish off the RAF,at one time the RAF's losses were so high that thay did not have enough pilots to fill the planes with.It was only Hitlers stupidity that he shifted from attacking the British airfields to their cities that gave the RAF valuable breathing space...

Completely true my friend if u believe in Churchillian propoganda that is
Winston wanted the world (read the USA) to believe that England was fighting a David vs Goaliath battle , that the few planes of the RAF were defending their land against the 4 times larger Luftwaffe.
While not a complete fabrication , this wasnt the whole truth.
The RAF had wonderful aircraft like the "Mosquito" of their own . Their numbers while fewer than than what the nazis had ,were about a 1:2 ratio .
Which isnt a huge handicap when u consider the fact that every German Plane shot down was lost , while British pilots could bail out it being their own soil.
The problem that the Luftwaffe had was the british radar , the accurate estimation of their planes meant the Nazis had to fly their planes in groups of atleast 12 to 15 together.
Another problem was the fact the Luftwaffe was primarily designed as a punching weapon for the Blitzkrieg in support of the Panzers , hence it did not carry much fuel . The German Planes were like a tethered falcon , unable to strike much deep into English Territory .
Yes the RAF was down to its lowest point at one stage in October 1940 ,but by that time the threat of an invasion over the Channel had already passed .An invasion would have needed clear weather .
And besides Hitler never wanted to Invade England . In his adolescent age he was watching movies of how the great englishmen dominated the 300 million hordes of India , he was convinced of their Racial Equality with his fellow german countrymen.
Hence he wanted to bomb the british cities to scare the brits into a peace deal , in europe which would have freed him completly to do what he wanted to do in the first place seize land in the east from the inferior Slav race.
something that he has mentioned quite clearly in his Mein Kampf.
He had graindoise plans of occupying the whole european continent , slaughtering all the inferior poles,gypsies ,jews and Settling Thousands of German Families in the occupied lands .In short replacing much of Eastern Europe with Germany.
It didnt work out cause the brits were too proud , and Churchill hated him like hell

Originally Posted by rajatb

One of the key reasons in the loss in Russia was that the Germans attacked in July and not in May as originally planned,they had to postpone the invasion because Cyprus proved to be a pain in the neck.The British fleet operating out of Cyprus inflicted heavy losses on the Nazis so that they first had to capture Cyprus and Greece and then move onto Moscow.They reached within 40 miles of Moscow before the Russian winter did them in ,had they started 2 months early
Moscow would have fallen ....

The invasion was held in June 22 certainly it was delayed by 4 precious weeks , but as i mentioned before had hitler not diverted the central panzers of Guderian which were moving along the straight Minsk-Smolensk-moscow route ,guderian would have taken moscow before the first flakes of snow had arrived on the scene.
And by the way , the invasion was delayed because Hitler was venting his Fury on the Jugoslavs who had overthrown their pro- Hitler ruler in a military coup.
The british in Cyprus were initially fighting the italians and hence were succesful ,once the Nazi paratroopers came on the scene the fighting was ended pretty quick

[nnikyl007]

hey,peshwa and comp., gr8 thread man.u guys rock .keep increasing gyaan.

Originally Posted by PvDdicted

one of the biggest tales of shivaji's valor (or which is touted so by the marathas) tht happned during the mughal regime ...i tihnk it was his escaping from aurangzeb's kingdom in a "tokri" (basket) is infact historically the biggest act of cowardice by him .......dot mean to irk any maratha descendants on here but since histroy is all about separating fact from myth, though wud bring up this interestinf titbit.....ill be bck wit full details on the same shd anyone wanna pursue this further

hey dude, you can contribute in the following thread.your post in this thread is oddmanout.
http://www.pagalguy.com/cat/showthre...ighlight=jokes (
PaGaLGuY.com Forums > The Lounge > Chit - Chat Ridiculously funny jokes!
while Peshwa,pooza and others are given gr8 gyaan, you are being childish and bias. refrain fom such crap.

[QuintEssence]

i have wanted to pst here for long but something or the other just manages to turn up (like flu etc)

hmm WWII
guess we can have sub-divisions of the great war by itself.

The War In Europe

1) hitler's blitzkrieg through Poland and Balkans

2) the invasion of Russia

3) Battle of Britain

4)the Invasion

The War in North Africa (i am a bit woozy on this)

1) war over Crete / Greece(read it in an alistaire maclean novel )

General Rommel and his Afrika Corps made their stamp on history here


The War In the Pacific

1) Pearl Harbour

2) the bloody battle of South Pacific

I would like to mention the war heroes associated with FDR..Eisenhower, Montgomery, Patton, MacArthur, Admiral Nimitz (not to be confused with the german Donitz).

of all these batles, the battle for the pacific was the bloodiest. with due apologies to the Russians, whose swarm-and-stay approach finally wore off the edge of the the German army..the south pacific was one theatre of operations where the tide of the batles just refused to shift either way.

Who can forget the battle of Midway which proved to be the decisive naval engagement of World War II, which gave the United States sea power over the Japanese after the aftermath of Pearl Harbor. (1942)


the islands which have now fallen into folklore (and history) are Gaudaljara, Gaudalcanal, Tarawa.

U.S. Marines landed on Guadalcanal on August 7, 1942. Against a small Japanese garrison, the landing was easy. Afterward nothing was easy. The Japanese responded swiftly and violently by sea and by air. The outcome hinged on the Japanese navy's ability to bring in reinforcements, which was substantial, and the U.S. Navy's ability to keep the marines supplied, which was at times in some doubt. While the marines battled a determined foe in a debilitating tropical climate, between August 24 and November 30 the navy fought six major engagements in the waters surrounding the island. The losses in ships and aircraft were heavy on both sides, but the Japanese were more seriously hurt because they could not afford to accept a war of attrition with the Americans. Their warships did not come out again after the end of November, and the Americans declared the island secure on February 9, 1943.

(source of para: Encarta Dictionary)

without doubt, the south pacific theatre of operations have made the reputations of US marines which they enjoy to this day. It was also a young assistant of Admiral William Halsey (Bull Halsey) called James A. Michener has based his Pulitzer-winning novel. We also find another reputed author, Leon Uris making his division's name in "Battle Cry".

[donB]

Originally Posted by QuintEssence

I would like to mention the war heroes associated with FDR..Eisenhower, Montgomery, Patton, MacArthur, Admiral Nimitz (not to be confused with the german Donitz).

you forget Gen Omar Bradley my friend!!