INDIA paki stan Issue : POK

[wewake]

Originally Posted by schivam

Good Post Dude !!

But as long we have spineless politicians at the helm we shall never be able to resolve this issue. We should do to Pakistan what Israel does to Palestine. US keeps asking Israel to practice restrain, but Israel does what is best for their national security, they dont give any heed to US or UN warnings. In the current scenario India is too important to the US and they wouldnt want to screw up their relations with India over the Kashmir issue. If India continues the economic growth for the next 2 decades, we might just see a end to this conflict in the next 10-15 yrs. Provided we have the right kind of leaders.

great post .... no doubt bout that ... the problem with our country is unstable govt ..... n ofcourse spineless demogogues ..... when gvmt changes even the ideology aginst the problem and strategies against the problem changes .... to stop worsen the situation we shud atleast stop the infiltration and kill the terrorsts liek stray dogs ... (sorry for using strong words) but to avoid kandahar situations we have tio do this just collect all the possible info u can get n just finish the business n never bother bout humanright activists crap .... we are still in that gandhian era of ceasefire n not retaliate n crap .... i think the main reason for increase in recent terrorist attacks is is undeployment or reducing forces along the kashmir borders by UPA gvmt .... our politicians are still thinking of heir own benefits ..... the ruling party in kashmir was presented a proposal for dividing the state into three diff states which cud result in better governance and security but for the sake of votes they refused it .... kashmir was known for kashmiri pundits ..... tude majority of pundits are in other states .... because terrorist s are driving out the pudits ... the clear strategy is to drive out the natives and get the infiltrants from pakistan and show that kashmir belongs to pakistan .... this is a slow poison but it is working very well ... the recent issues regarding some passport scam which involved kashmiri leaders....is a clear proof .... the strategy is working sop well that the terrorists are wearing politicians masks in the name of JKLiberation Front ... HAlf of the politicians in JKLF have proven terrorist links ..... even the problem with waging a war is going nuclear ... even if we wage a war India is sensible enuff not to go nuclear first but in pakistan the war is fuelled by psycho terrorists .... and due to the recent nuclear leaks by the pak nuclear scientist it is almost sur etha tterorist control the nuclear triggers ..... according to me the short term solution is to keep our territory clean n free from terrorism ... hunt down the terrorists ...a nda ll the institution fuelling terrorism in India reintroduce POTA ... and most important not to preserve the teroorists in our jails and make them eat our food make them grow fatter n fatter n send them back to pakistan .... also somebody suggested educating pakistanis well if that was the case then think of this the master minds behind 9/11 was an architect n engineer .... behind 7/7 in london were very well educated also the ones behind parliament attack n kandahar were also very well educated ..... its not the education that has to b provided .... its the right ideology and right klinda leadership in that country will make difference with education u will get very well educated terrorists and genera musharrafs ... hu sez if India doesnt solve JK issue then India can expect one more Kargil episode .... well thats from my side please present ur views

[sibs]

send lalu to pakistan to manage their govt..
they'll get fed up and give up kashmir to us soon enuf
sibs

[wewake]

Originally Posted by sibs

send lalu to pakistan to manage their govt..
they'll get fed up and give up kashmir to us soon enuf
sibs

good idea he might get the whole pakistan back to India

[lomi]

i juz cudnt believe tat so many ppl want war here. Ofcourse pak havent been the best of neighbours but if war can never be the solution to any problem, it only increasees the problems. Juz think fr a sec who will benefit if india goes to war bombards pak, USA fr one will benefit as it wud mean india are themselves committin suicide so very good and more importantly their weaponeries will be traded in market and tats wat they want. Are u guys so fool to show ur hatred towards the militants. Wat is a militant if he doesnt have weapons and who supplies weapons to them. Dont act on wat media says and think fr a second abt wat cud be the reasons. Both pak leaders as well as indian leaders will be the happiest persons if they go on war as tat wud mean loads of money fr them (remeber money fr leaders doesnt ever mean money fr the government it actually is inversely proportional). Our as well as pak leaders have made loads and loads of money in this j&k issue and they want u to believe tat they are savin our country (both sides), actually they are foolin u. Foreigners are happy like hell whenever they see indo pak wars. So use ur dead cells in brain as well and juz don be so called patriotic. Why does a poor poor country like india needs to spend so much on defence defies logic fr me. I know theyy are handicapped so is pak so is every developin country. And after all who is complainin, the ppl are fools, the leaders get enuf money and the country goes bankrupt who carez. Its my opinion, ppl cud differ and sound diplomatically correct but am expressin my free opinion tats it.

In short neither indian nor pak leaders want any bloody solution to this issue. After all who wud like to kill the gold egg layin hen? And who wud like to anger the superpowers. They are puppets to the superpowers and they will do wat the masters order them to do.

[bookophobic]

Originally Posted by Jeyavar

When did India loose POK ???

What followed was history... now exactly how did india lose it?
Srry but i am bad at RC

[maheshtk_21]

nice post guys. ive a view on this problem. however foolish this may sound many of india's problems come from our lack of pride in our religion and culture.

our neighbors raise in unison against kafirs! do u think the machinery in pak can launch assaults without popular support ( inspite of being a military state)
the junta there believes that any sqr klmtr of land with a particular community needs to be liberated.

i in no way want to say that the folks of minority here are any less patriotic. but that certainly is an element . the history of the problem, all these talks are very euphemestic versions of the real issue.

also the fact that india is doing much better than pakistan inspite of being the same people and their promotion from infeidelity / paganism hits them hard. really hard .

the word pluralism appears once in their dictionary . as an antonym for brotherhood and devotion.

though these things may sound beside the point many of our problems boil down to the fact that we indians are not aware let alone be proud of the problems this country and its religions have faced down the centuries. also we are such a diverse country that one does wonder if '' diversity is a boon''.

anyone who has ever spoken thus risks being called an RSS wadi or vhp man.they have made the problem more complex.the need for this nation is to promote the unity of all religions and races .

and tear away the image of being a soft state. stop applying oil on the bums when faced with threat.

JAI HIND.

[maheshtk_21]

Originally Posted by lomi

i juz cudnt believe tat so many ppl want war here. Ofcourse pak havent been the best of neighbours but if war can never be the solution to any problem, it only increasees the problems. Juz think fr a sec who will benefit if india goes to war bombards pak, USA fr one will benefit as it wud mean india are themselves committin suicide so very good and more importantly their weaponeries will be traded in market and tats wat they want. Are u guys so fool to show ur hatred towards the militants. Wat is a militant if he doesnt have weapons and who supplies weapons to them. Dont act on wat media says and think fr a second abt wat cud be the reasons. Both pak leaders as well as indian leaders will be the happiest persons if they go on war as tat wud mean loads of money fr them (remeber money fr leaders doesnt ever mean money fr the government it actually is inversely proportional). Our as well as pak leaders have made loads and loads of money in this j&k issue and they want u to believe tat they are savin our country (both sides), actually they are foolin u. Foreigners are happy like hell whenever they see indo pak wars. So use ur dead cells in brain as well and juz don be so called patriotic. Why does a poor poor country like india needs to spend so much on defence defies logic fr me. I know theyy are handicapped so is pak so is every developin country. And after all who is complainin, the ppl are fools, the leaders get enuf money and the country goes bankrupt who carez. Its my opinion, ppl cud differ and sound diplomatically correct but am expressin my free opinion tats it.




In short neither indian nor pak leaders want any bloody solution to this issue. After all who wud like to kill the gold egg layin hen? And who wud like to anger the superpowers. They are puppets to the superpowers and they will do wat the masters order them to do.

u will make a nice politician . plzz sneak into pakistan and neutralise things there mate . i guess usa is not into kicking the ass out of kashmiri pundits.lol.

london bombings made a loud thud in world media and the sound will resonate for another 10 years with pple gathering everyday and lighting candles and stuff.

day before yesterday 8 jawans were killed and 5 media perons were injures in srinagar.

5 hindus ( not bringing in religion just the details) were killed by slitting their thoats in a sleepy hamlet north of jammu.

does this register any decibels?? why are these guys 3rd grade citizens??

this is the self respect i was talking about.

an excessive dosage of films and tv soaps induces men into making statements like '' we're family''.
usa is a pimp by nature and fakistan its whore . but hey we r not going to the redlight area. what if these whores land up at our doorsteps ( i think theyve made it into the hall,and have considerable activity right upto the attic )

do we call the whore so as to not supposedly 'involve the pimp into the issue '' and make use of the commission thus saved for the purpose of the welfare of the whore and our own developement too ( as if the whore wud allow that )

it wud be the height of spinelesness

[lomi]

also wanna add tat this thread is misleadin and kashmir was never part of india during our freedom and it was under hindu maharaja and not under british fr british to give it to us at the end of war. When the lines of border were drwan between india and pak there was no discussion abt kashmir. The hindu maharaj never wanted to join either india or pak. When there was azad fighetrs fightin and tryin to capture him, he asked indian army fr help and thus started the conquest frm either side. India got one side the pak captured one side. British left but their policy wasnt yet left. As their policy divide and rule was very much alive. From 1947 to 2005 no change in broder, india has its side, pak has it side. No solution. Only treaties over treaties. Loads of defence money has been spent on kashmir frm either side. Still pak buys F-16 when its ppl die without money to buy food. Is it necessary one feels. Indian govt does bofors deals, creates tehelka when its poor ppl are told, see we are poor nation. Dont lead ppl to wrong paths. There is money fr food but there is no food. There is money fr shelter but there is no shelter. There is money fr cloth but no clothes. Isnt this a gruesome reality thrown at force by our so called politicians at helpless poor ppl of the society of not just india but the world and these poor ppl don even have voice in this society.

[guttsm]

Cool Flash file. Never knew all that about pakistan military might.

Also, i cant believe that there so many war supporters in here. War is only going to make both India n Pak lose. If u saw the flash file, in the nuclear section, the range of ghauri missile is given 2 b 1000 mile. Our conventional armed forces are definitely better than pak. But pakis can target any city between Srinagar to Chennai with the nuclear capable Ghauri. And during the 2002 military standoff, the Paki ambassador to the US had made it clear that, if India attacks and Pak loses its options in conventional warfare, they wont hesitate to use nuclear weapons. And if in the future, as u say, We try to take back POK by war, and the Pakis use Ghuari, they obviously wont target Jaisalmer or Bhuj or Srinagar. They will go for Delhi, Mumbai, Jaipur, Chandigarh, Agra, etc. That wud translate into a loss of atleast 1 million ppl & many more permanently disabled.

Many may argue that we can use that opportunity to wipe out Pakistan from the earth. That wud lead to more deaths, maybe 10 million. It wud also mean an impetus to fundamentalists, Islamists and the more radical pakistani population, which are a minority presently. U may say they arent minority, but, my dear, they r a loud minority, a visible minority, which overshadows the silent majority of Pakistan. The silent majority wants peace, so that they can prosper. More than half of pakistani cotton and wool is sold in Indian markets. They can have meals only bcoz India exports wheat and rice to them. Think logically and u'll understand that they too r normal ppl who want to feed themselves n their children. And hunger can be fed only by a meal, not terrorism.

But i at no time suggest that we shud do nothing about Pakistan. They have done mistakes, no doubt, and we do want revenge. Who committed those mistakes?? The Pakistani farmer?? No, it was the Paki govt and the visible minority. So we shud revenge ourselves by destroying them. As far as Kashmir goes, there's just 1 means by which we cud end terrorism and maybe get back POK in one stroke without war. It will be slow, but effective nevertheless. We have to develop Kashmir. Build roads, give ordinary kashmiris, students especially a chance to see wat India stands 4, the peace, prosperity and freedom India has. Give them jobs so that they dont have to turn to extremism out of sheer unemployment. Also, let there be ppl 2 ppl contact between kashmiris. Let them board the bus to Srinagar. Let them see how well their brothers and sisters are in India, how much more prosperous, advanced and free they are. They will go back home and see for themselves how much violence, poverty and dependency they have on others. Let them see that their cousins in India are far more better off in the "fanatic, hinduist" India, as against wat is told to them about human rights violations, killings, tortures, etc. Then they'll try 2 take things in their own hands, stop terrorist support, and may be rise in revolution against the continious Pakistani interference in the matters of "Azad" Kashmir. Our intelligence system shud add fuel to their fire, provide arms and money to those elements of the Pok society who either want to join India, or atleast get away from the clutches of Pakis. All this wud ofcourse take time, but it wud b more effective than war, that wud no doubt pin paki public opinion against us.

I'm here not suggesting that we shud stop army battles with terrorism. Terrorists trying to infiltrate or attack any place in India shud be killed, be it Kashmir, Delhi, or Ayodhya. But all we shud see to is that we dont punish ordinary Kashmiris 4 wat terrorists frm Pakistan and Afghnistan are doing.

[schivam]

For once I might agree with all you preachers of non-violence but I have only one question to ask. We have been practicing non-violence for the past so many years but don't we still have bomb blasts in our cities, don't we still have attacks in our parliaments and temples. Don't our jawaans still die every second day on the border. So what is it that we are achieving through this gandhian philosophy of turning the other cheek.

We all detest America for their policy but we got to admit that after 9/11 no one has dared to have a terrorist attack in their country. Had they not retaliated they way the did in Afghanistan, events like 9/11 would have been the order of the day. It has been almost 4 yrs since 9/11 and we haven't heard of any incident in US. So if by being more aggressive and stern if India can manage even a year without such terror strikes I think it would be a success. I know all you folks are going to pounce on me with the Iraq war and state how US soldiers are dying there. I agree US are having a bad time in Iraq and I believe they deserve it, but we all know that war was more for oil than the elimination of terrorism. But the point still remains is that the Iraqi militia is retaliating and arnt giving up their country into US hands without a fight. If the Iraqi's would also have practiced this so called non-violence, they would have lost their own country to US.

All I am trying to say is yr humanitarian views about food for the hungry and all the other stuff might sound good in yr GD/PI but the bottom line is the world is not as good a place as you guys think it is. If the European countries would have tried yr ppl 2 ppl contact during the second world war, half of the world would have been speaking German today. You have to fight to protect yr country and you have to retaliate, we cant afford to be sitting ducks for the rest of the world anymore.