What Is The Problem With India ?

[the_egonomist]

sorry to interrupt the flow, but I just felt the need to butt in:

I tend to agree with Hameed, merely contributing in token heaps doesn't help the Indian cause. It is alright to do so where there already exists the concept of the republic. Micro contributions are more often than not offset by the general apathy of the public.

[monsterkartik]

a simple answer to ur ques..

the problems are

1) Corruption - which leads to all other problems
2) Population - shud be controlled properly
3) Illetracy - one of the most imp factors

wud also say that still we are on nascent stage...every country takes time post independence to flourish...

i think 50 years down the line the situation wud b much better than wat it is rite now...

Cheers

Kartik

[gabriel666]

Originally Posted by Apurv

.....

It really is a 'Freakonomics' problem. You are right in a way. But farmers haven't killed themselves because of faulty government policies, but because of absence of the right policies. I don't know if you've heard of a guy called Anna Hazare who transformed a place near Nasik called Ralegan Siddhi in like 5 years. That place used to have farmer suicides abound, perennial drought, and what not. The media credits Anna Hazare of building check-dams and water harvesting, but completely misses the greater good that he did. He changed the boozing and spending habits of the villagers. People there had an age-old habit of getting drunk every evening and generally creating a ruckus in and outside their houses. Hazare hired goondas and made sure anybody who drank like that got the beating of his life. Within 3 years, he got their habits right. One might not approve of the way he did things, but even Sharad Pawar has gone on record admitting that farmer suicides are a result of the lifestyle muck that Maharashtra farmers have always enjoyed and is a more deep-rooted social problem than that of agricultural issues.

I don't mean to say that the solution to farmer suicides is beating them up, but it lies in bringing about social change. Of course, politicians who buy votes for liquor will be the last ones to unsettle things. But there was something very interesting said by an MLA in the Maharashtra assembly... the problem begins when you call them 'farmer' suicides, to convey as if the suicides are happening only within farmers. In truth, they're happening with everyone in villages, such people engaged in other activities... those running small shops, school teachers, post men, etc etc.
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Well in the first couple of sentences you were just being pedantic with the whole "right and faulty policies" argument. Clearly not having the "right policy" is in itself "faulty policy".

You're argument on the reasons of farmer suicide being "boozing and spending habits" of farmers is again misplaced. If a farmer who has taken a loan (for whatever reason) is not able to pay it back despite selling of his belongings then it clearly points to the fact that his main source of livelihood, the agriculture industry is in doldrums. Moreover the example was a gross over generalization based on a few cases you have heard of. The increase in farmer suicide is directly linked to the slowdown in the agriculture industry in the last decade and a half. The crux of the problem in the agriculture industry is lack of the availability of credit, this forces farmers to take credit from money lenders who exploit these hapless farmers by charging very high interest rates. This then turns into a credit cycle, where the farmer takes a loan to repay another, add to this the absolute lack of irrigation infrastructure and the general apathy of the government and you have one of the worst farm crisis that India has ever faced. So, it is largely a problem of "faulty policies".

Originally Posted by Apurv

Nor do I. There's something common between us that explains why we think alike - we are not the ones facing bullets on the border. Our moms create a ruckus in the house if we say we're going to Srinagar for a holiday. If you ask me, war itself is unnecessary.

But is that how the world really works? I would assume you have better perspective than that. Defence spend is related to 'threat perception' and that perception is mighty high for India.

Like I said, these are all very nice ideas to have and light candles at India Gate with. But we shouldn't be under the illusion that it means anything under the bright blue sky.

Like I said, we have enough talkers but the doers reside two forums below

Cheers,

India's spending on its defense is much beyond what its "threat perception" warrants. Dealing with India's current threat perception does not require us to spend billions of dollars on a Blue Water navy (a stated goal of our navy) nor does it require India to buy "Mid Air re fullers" or long range bombers. Moreover a conventional superiority means nothing when nuclear weapons are there in the equation. In a previous post you mentioned about how Pakistan almost nuked us. What do you think is going to happen when Pakistan feels that it cant stand up to India's overwhelming military superiority in conventional warfare ?, it just makes them think about the nuclear option more often. India also cannot realistically play catch up with China. China has global ambitions and hence spends billions of dollars on its military. India cannot match that sort of spending and it will be really stupid of India to try and do it.

India is clearly on a mission to increase its military might based on the misplaced notion that, increased military might will increase India's stature in the global arena. This is a dream that a country with 30% of its population living below the poverty line cannot afford.

I am not against increased military might, it is just that we have more important needs on which we should be spending those billions of dollars.

Regards.

[the_egonomist]

Does anyone here subscribe to the sex theory?

[gabriel666]

Originally Posted by the_egonomist

Does anyone here subscribe to the sex theory?

Yeah, I think we should have sex :razz: (That is what you were talking about, right? ) .. Well, I guess not, care to enlighten us what is this new "sex theory" you speak of.

[Apurv]

Originally Posted by hameed

I have to disagree. I cannot accept that thinkers dont act. I am sure if you looked around you'd find plenty of examples. How can we in the right mind shun all kinds of discussions just because it isnt as romantic an idea as lets say "getting into the field"?

I agree to disagree but I respect your POV. Anyhow, I hope you guys have fun discussing this here but please make sure you do it with civility, in a friendly manner, without personal attacks and unwarranted sarcasm that is disrespectful to others. This forum has seen bitter moments in the past in topics such as these with banning abound. Please do not go that way, else we will have to stop it. Have fun
Cheers,

Originally Posted by gabriel666

Well in the first couple of sentences you were just being pedantic with the whole "right and faulty policies" argument. Clearly not having the "right policy" is in itself "faulty policy".

You're argument on the reasons of farmer suicide being "boozing and spending habits" of farmers is again misplaced. If a farmer who has taken a loan (for whatever reason) is not able to pay it back despite selling of his belongings then it clearly points to the fact that his main source of livelihood, the agriculture industry is in doldrums. Moreover the example was a gross over generalization based on a few cases you have heard of. The increase in farmer suicide is directly linked to the slowdown in the agriculture industry in the last decade and a half. The crux of the problem in the agriculture industry is lack of the availability of credit, this forces farmers to take credit from money lenders who exploit these hapless farmers by charging very high interest rates. This then turns into a credit cycle, where the farmer takes a loan to repay another, add to this the absolute lack of irrigation infrastructure and the general apathy of the government and you have one of the worst farm crisis that India has ever faced. So, it is largely a problem of "faulty policies".

I don't think I'll assume anything about you when I try to put across a point in a discussion because I don't know you. Anyhow, I didn't quote any example based on what 'I heard', but because farming in Vidharbha is my family business and we have had our share of suicides in the family.

Anyway, it is not my volition to make sure that you see my point so I will not push. What you've written there is a lot of Economic Times stuff and I hope posting it here with such conviction rocks your boat.

Cheers!

[the_egonomist]

Originally Posted by gabriel666

Yeah, I think we should have sex :razz: (That is what you were talking about, right? ) .. Well, I guess not, care to enlighten us what is this new "sex theory" you speak of.

basically the theory draws attention to the fact that everything revolves around two primal instincts that humans have - survival and sex. the sex theory basically puts into perspective what a patriarchal societal structure does to the society. i will post a details later.

note:
1. i have opened pandora's box - this theory leads to lot of discussion.
2. its not so much as how this theory relates to problems in india but it has its moments.


p.s: so when asked about sex in a form do you reply - " yes please?"

[the_egonomist]

Originally Posted by Apurv

I agree to disagree but I respect your POV. Anyhow, I hope you guys have fun discussing this here but please make sure you do it with civility, in a friendly manner, without personal attacks and unwarranted sarcasm that is disrespectful to others. This forum has seen bitter moments in the past in topics such as these with banning abound. Please do not go that way, else we will have to stop it. Have fun
Cheers,

I don't think I'll assume anything about you when I try to put across a point in a discussion because I don't know you. Anyhow, I didn't quote any example based on what 'I heard', but because farming in Vidharbha is my family business and we have had our share of suicides in the family.

Anyway, it is not my volition to make sure that you see my point so I will not push. What you've written there is a lot of Economic Times stuff and I hope posting it here with such conviction rocks your boat.

Cheers!

apurv,

I agree. More often than not people make assumptions and base their convictions on what they read and hear. But it is upto the people who experience them first hand to educate them. The media in India are corporate whores who will do anything for a pittance. The only consolation here is people are ready to admit there is a problem - and that my friend is as good a start as you will get.

p.s: Your last statement comes off as a bit harsh..... I am just saying

[gabriel666]

Originally Posted by Apurv

...
I don't think I'll assume anything about you when I try to put across a point in a discussion because I don't know you. Anyhow, I didn't quote any example based on what 'I heard', but because farming in Vidharbha is my family business and we have had our share of suicides in the family.

Anyway, it is not my volition to make sure that you see my point so I will not push. What you've written there is a lot of Economic Times stuff and I hope posting it here with such conviction rocks your boat...

Cheers!

I wasn't making any assumptions about you either as I too don't know you, I was responding to your this statement

Originally Posted by Apurv

As for farmer suicides... it's a complex issue. I come from a village in the absolute hellhole of Maharashtra and I have known my own distant relatives commit suicide. I know that the suicides that have taken place there have nothing to do with "farming" as such. This is why suicides happen at least in Vidharbha ...

You made a very general statement based on a few examples. Which I dont agree with.. but I guess we can agree to disagree.

About the economics times jab .. it is ironic that just a few lines above, you wrote about how the discussions should be kept civil and should not involve personal insults and then you go on to take a swipe at me .. Kind of breaking your own rule, don't you think??

Regards

[gabriel666]

Originally Posted by the_egonomist

basically the theory draws attention to the fact that everything revolves around two primal instincts that humans have - survival and sex. the sex theory basically puts into perspective what a patriarchal societal structure does to the society. i will post a details later.

note:
1. i have opened pandora's box - this theory leads to lot of discussion.
2. its not so much as how this theory relates to problems in india but it has its moments.


p.s: so when asked about sex in a form do you reply - " yes please?"

Yeah, I have read about it .. not a lot, so looking forward to your post. I also agree that there are many ways in which the patriarchal society society hurts India.

PS: - that happened only once