[allrounder83]

@man_friday: An excellent post dood, Would really love to have some more posts from you on different topics
The tone could have been slightly milder in terms of the post.

But hey, this is PG, this is the place wherin we can voice out our opinions and what we feel abt rite

I felt the topic has gone too much into understanding the intracies of man_friday's post and we were digressing from the topic .

Let us come back to the point.

1) A total mismanagement of the case from the Mumbai police wherein they have not been able to convict a person killing 7 ppl. Damn it, what are these guys thinkin abt?

2) The police has not been able to prove that the Alistair was drunk. Well, then he must have been in his senses, and that is tantamount to murder. This guy should be hanged.

3) The judges cannot do any bit of a thing but let him off with a small whimper because of the inability of Mumbai police to provide in substantial evidence. So cannot blame the court at all.\

Mumbai police compared to the Scotland's Yard (huh..) claimed that the have the necessary evidence to nail this guy down. What happened to that evidence????? Alistair's Family would surely have bribed the cops and the cops to their entirety that they do not get enough salaries would have shoved that money in their posterior(sounds good rite..) leaving the helpless ppl with no money.
And with the newspaper reports coming that Alistair's family would not have pay up any moolah but the car insurance company has to pay up the guys now just because of Mumbai police's excellent conviction capabilities.

Let us hope that such kinda incidents do not occur again
AMEN

[mufasa]

Brilliant post... Now let me put my views in the order of merit:

About the issue: No doubt a deplorable act... And the (original) judgement raises the same old questions about our systems... It is like a sleeping dog, and each new act, is akin to a poke into the dog's ribs... The dog raises it's head but continues to sleep... Similar is the state of our national machinery. But I am too disillusioned to give rise to a new slogan, make a resolution to do something about it.. In fact so accentuated is the feeling of resignation that it was only today that I opened this thread....

About the post : And what a post it was!! Absolutely refreshing with the accompanying sarcasm embellishing it... It is definitely strongly worded, and I really believe that a good job has been done... It has a direct in your face approach, which kinda jolts you from the slumber... I really admire the effort that has been put.... The wit associated with each point is marvellous.. the answers to the points might sound frivolous, but that's the whole point... It is quite a reminder of the times we live in ,where nothing ceases to surprise.... I especially loved the comments about Salman and the gf breaking up... And that's the biggest price that the guy pays for this felony!!! Amazing post dude... You have ruffled some feathers, but that because we are used to the politeness...
If it's show casing your writing talents, I don't see any harm in that... Coz it was not the prime motive of the fact... The feeling with which you wrote the post was very palpable... In moi point of view, to dissect the post, find out mundane faults somehow defeated the purpose..... though I agree that not much scope was left for a discussion, yet it could have been seen in entirety rather than a word or a phrase here and there.....

- Mufasa Resurrected

[subodh_iit]

Okay, let me get my viewpoint on the topic straight.

1. Judiciary - I voiced my opinions somewhere else and said that they are educated morons - and nothing to write home about.

The constitution is too complex a thing to comment on. The laws may need to be refined but I am casting aspersions on the ability and the integrity of the judges as I am not competent enough to suggest change in the Laws and the Constitution. Besides, that is a separate topic and can be dealt with in a separate thread.

As regards Judges, due to the strange law against Contempt of Court, they largely escapes the media fury. Not that Media fury will help either. The Media is the worst culprit of our country's ills. And still people think that it can change the things. Tell me the name of one newspaper which is fair in its comments. And don't give Hindu BS, more of a communist mouthpiece..

2. Punishment - Tell me Will the life of the deceased be back if we award the accused maximum punishment possible?? What points are you trying to drive home by rhetorically arguing for 6 or 7 or 8 years of imprisonment.

The idea of the imprisonment is to try to reform the concerned person. A prison stint does not guarantee a reformed Man. Had prison really been the reformation center, I wud have agreed to your chants. But they are not and many researches have proved beyond doubt that.

If a Good Man loses a part of his life despite the accompanying guilt and the pledge to so something good in the wake of his crime, he should definitely be given a chance. It is due to these self-exalted Judges like you who trumpet given the slightest of chance All opinions are sacred and let everyone unto his own but themselves using the satire or watever always try to prove their own as the only right. O Righteous fellow!! may I ask u what Punishment will you assign to this prevalent hypocrisy of which you urself seem to be an ardent follower?

A Man is the slave of the context. Given a choice he will relive his past. Here is where we get it all wrong. Rather than let a person learn from his mistake, we behave with such a reckless abandon that its no surprise the person will turn his back on the society.

Now there is difference between Planned Crimes and Unplanned crimes. And every crime is so contextually different that making sweeping statements like it deserves 6 years or 8 years is wholly uncalled for. Rather we should understand the context of each crime and then try to make sure whether it is possible that we can satisfy the aggrieved party in a way that is least painful for the accused besides making sure that he is dissuaded from such acts in the future.

But What I saw here is complete antipathy towards Mr. Ali something and no regards to the feelings of the deceased themselves, rather a hurried exaltation of the self-reached conclusion that He should have been awarded a lengthy imprisonment.

[mufasa]

Originally Posted by subodh_iit

1. Judiciary - I voiced my opinions somewhere else and said that they are educated morons - and nothing to write home about.

Besides, that is a separate topic and can be dealt with in a separate thread.

No contest here as I hold them in a simliar esteem.

Originally Posted by subodh_iit

Not that Media fury will help either. The Media is the worst culprit of our country's ills. And still people think that it can change the things. Tell me the name of one newspaper which is fair in its comments. And don't give Hindu BS, more of a communist mouthpiece...

I would not really go so far to say that they are the worst... The Jessica Lall case is a supporting example... Agree that the judgement was glaringly flawed, the public outrage was unprecendented...and yet you cant deny the role of media... the public voices were given a channel by the media.. The 4 pillars of democracy are the Constitution,the Executive, the judiciary and the Media... there is no denying that fact that most of the media houses have a political tinge... And their loyalities and their news changes with the Govt... but look at the changing state...instead of a state run channel, now we have multiple avenues...so the news does reach us... though there is ample scope of a more vibrant and independent role of media... I have not given up hope, atleast on this front.. unlike a couple of the pillars I spoke of earlier...

Originally Posted by subodh_iit

2. Punishment - Tell me Will the life of the deceased be back if we award the accused maximum punishment possible?? What points are you trying to drive home by rhetorically arguing for 6 or 7 or 8 years of imprisonment.
But they are not and many researches have proved beyond doubt that....

The point that I am trying to make is there should be feeling of having done wrong and paying a price for it... somehow the incidents like that of Fardeen Khan and Sanjay Dutt leave us with mixed feelings.. Are we children of a lesser God?
Some are so removed from the realities of life that a person walking on the road is no different than a street dog... As a componenet of the society there needs to be a responsiblity not towards yourself but also the others...Though the prisons in the ideal case should be a correction center, but it is not so. But what is the alternative? Even in a correction cell, how would you ensure that the inherent trait of doing harm will be removed.. I know this does not apply here and Alistar does not fall into this category ,but no amount of psycho babble can treat a serial killer...

Originally Posted by subodh_iit

A Man is the slave of the context. Now there is difference between Planned Crimes and Unplanned crimes.
... He should have been awarded a lengthy imprisonment.

Yes, and let us look into the context in this particular case... We see campaigns on the effects of drunken driving... there is a growing awarness on it... and an educated, literate individual cares nothing about them... the number of road accidents are on the rise each year..and an important cause for that is the apathy shown by such people... How difficult is it to understand that when you are drunk you dont have complete control over your senses.... How can someone take so many lives because of such callous attitude.... And how to ensure the reformation? by asking him to do community service...give back to society.. I think the crime is too grave for that!

[man_friday]

Read an article on this story which said something about the car insurance company being liable for the incident. They have to pay the families of the dead some 15 lakhs in damages. This, atleast according to my somewhat questionable interpretation, would mean that the court has ruled that there was something wrong with the car. Ha ha! Seems like the judiciary agree with my analysis of pixies having fiddled with the engine. Didn't know PG had such a wide reach and influence.
Makes sense though doesn't it. The authorities are too afraid to get on the wrong side of anybody, so might as well blame the car. After all toyota corollas are unlikely to start a morcha. As for the insurance company's losses, well that's just stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. Perhaps all the members of our judiciary should wear tights (not the dancer ones Sanaa, the merry men ones)

The idea of the imprisonment is to try to reform the concerned person.

don't agree with this entirely. laws are made as much to prevent crime as to punish them. I think there are three purposes behind imprisoning a person.

1) To keep him off the streets so as to prevent him from committing more crimes
2) To reform the person and make him realise the error of his ways
3) To prevent others from committing a similar crime

On the first two counts, Alistair may not be liable for more than 6 months. It is highly unlikely that he will run over people again. Wouldn't want to damage his precious car.

However on the third count, it would certianly be sending out the wrong message to let Alistair off lightly. What you are basically saying then is, hey, if you're rich enough you can get away with anything. Go ahead, be irresponsible, just make sure you don't harm anyone who is more rich and powerful than you. People in Mumbai are still driving drunk. Just three days after the accident, kids were drinking in cars at Carter road itslef (witnessed it personally). There will be people who will still drink and drive no matter what because they think that they are supernatural beings who will not have an accident even if they don't know where the steering wheel is. But there are some who might be given a bit of a jolt if Alistair is given a harsher sentence and think twice before being irresponsible.

P.S. Sanaa.....would you let me buy you a happy meal, if I let you throw the fries at me?

[sanaa]

Originally Posted by man_friday

.

P.S. Sanaa.....would you let me buy you a happy meal, if I let you throw the fries at me?

sure , id like to throw stuff at you.
pointed stuff

[subodh_iit]

Originally Posted by man_friday

don't agree with this entirely. laws are made as much to prevent crime as to punish them. I think there are three purposes behind imprisoning a person.

1) To keep him off the streets so as to prevent him from committing more crimes
2) To reform the person and make him realise the error of his ways
3) To prevent others from committing a similar crime

On the first two counts, Alistair may not be liable for more than 6 months. It is highly unlikely that he will run over people again.

Good Analysis Mate.

Wouldn't want to damage his precious car.

Lame Attempt at Satire. Donno whether u intend to be funny, but in between such discussion abt a grave topic, u wud not even appear funny.

However on the third count, it would certianly be sending out the wrong message to let Alistair off lightly. What you are basically saying then is, hey, if you're rich enough you can get away with anything. Go ahead, be irresponsible, just make sure you don't harm anyone who is more rich and powerful than you. People in Mumbai are still driving drunk. Just three days after the accident, kids were drinking in cars at Carter road itslef (witnessed it personally). There will be people who will still drink and drive no matter what because they think that they are supernatural beings who will not have an accident even if they don't know where the steering wheel is. But there are some who might be given a bit of a jolt if Alistair is given a harsher sentence and think twice before being irresponsible.

Sweeping Generalized Statements without considerable forethought and prior Search/Research. Friend, if someone does not like to be in prison, then he does not think about whether he should commit a crime if the sentence is only 6 months or not. Only ur highlighted sentence represents the true picture. Now just because of these some ppl, will you like to spoil lives of some others who might well get alienated if the society does not show much tolerance.

And what abt the rich.. As far as I know there are too many non-richs in Mumbai who get away after these incidents. If Alis's name is getting highlighted it is only because he is rich. And we are still not far off from the ancient Bolly movies that hailed that communistic hatred against the richs. After all regular drawing table discussions also focusses against the richs.

[1_akhil]

Originally Posted by estranged_gnrs

Brilliant...thats all I will say...took some time to understand it, but

And thats what I call sarchasm....subtle but beautiful

Cheers,
Rohit

Ohh !!!

So thts sarcasm...
Thanx a lot for enlightening me on tht one dood

Jus dint know tht sarcasm is subtle..
U made my day


PS: Man friday,plumber - u shud take lessons on brilliant, mind-boggling sarcasm from sanaa n rohit
and note tht sarcasm is not brilliant until it takes a little extra time to comprehend it