[MvB ACM No9]

Originally Posted by theginsoakedboy

Mike

Thanks for the contribution.

From a practical perspective, abortion is good for the society, atleast till the population growth rate reduces and there is a decent structure in place to support those street kids.

The aim here is not to stop abortion, but to stop those "banned" tests which are still conducted and which lead to abortion of the "girl" child in particular. Also a fact is that this is more popular in the orthodox segment of the middle class society, where the issue is not lack of financial security for the child. It is the ridiculous mind-set of "lack of dignity" linked to a girl child. This is what I would look at targetting.

Very true. About abortion though, I can't see a single sensible argument against it!!! Abortion is good!!!! Full stop. Overpopulation or not, abortion MUST be kept legal...and easy to avail.

As for the mindset and the banned tests, very true. The mindset needs to be targeted. And I don't think it's an Indian mindset alone. It's global. When Kurt Nobrain of Nirvana sang 'Been a Son', it was the most appalling and public declaration of the mindset of half the world!!! And this was in a civilized and supposedly advanced society like America. Sample the lyrics:

She should have stayed away from friends
She should have had more time to spend
She should have died when she was born
She should have worn the crown of thorns

She should have-been a son
She should have-been a son
She should have-been a son
She should have-been a son

She should have stood out in a crowd
She should have made her mother proud
She should have fallen on her stance
She should have had another chance


- M

[theginsoakedboy]

Originally Posted by MvB ACM No9

Very true. About abortion though, I can't see a single sensible argument against it!!! Abortion is good!!!! Full stop. Overpopulation or not, abortion MUST be kept legal...and easy to avail

There are reasons to ban abortion, but they make sense in a much more regulated, educated and responsible society, unlike ours.

A bit off the topic: Read "freakonomics" if you havent. The first chapter talks about drop in crime rate in the US in the 90's, when the authorities were expecting it to shoot up to the levels of the 1800's. The reasons, as generally known, were stricter gun laws and more employment. But these were very small contributors to the drop. The main factor was "legalising" of abortion, due to a case somewhere in the later 70's or earlier 80's. This lead to lesser undesired births, especially among the lower classes, thus hitting the backbone of crime, the criminals.

Originally Posted by MvB ACM No9

As for the mindset and the banned tests, very true. The mindset needs to be targeted. And I don't think it's an Indian mindset alone. It's global. When Kurt Nobrain of Nirvana sang 'Been a Son', it was the most appalling and public declaration of the mindset of half the world!!! And this was in a civilized and supposedly advanced society like America.

This is something I was not really aware of.

Originally Posted by MvB ACM No9

She should have stayed away from friends
She should have had more time to spend
She should have died when she was born
She should have worn the crown of thorns

She should have-been a son
She should have-been a son
She should have-been a son
She should have-been a son

She should have stood out in a crowd
She should have made her mother proud
She should have fallen on her stance
She should have had another chance

Have heard this one, but did not pay this good attention to it. Makes sense.

[theunkindmonk]

Coming back 2 the topic i personally feel that crime has its genesis in 2 things
1)Attitude of the individual
2)Circumstances one is sujected too.

Nw if i got an attitude which holds human life, dignity and righteous virtues at lower end of my priorties n my gains,my desires n my kick of meeting my desired ends at top then i am suspectible to commiting a crime at sum crunch situation of my life. this is sumthing which drives the individual from inside n society can only suppliment on the postives or negatives of self image but can not majorly influence an individuals attitude abt life!

On the other hand if even on being a balanced individual i am subjected 2 extreme circumstance like harm 2 immediate family n friends then even then i can choose 2 commit a crime.

Both of these factors independently and as well as together results in crimes.nw the latter can possibly be attributed 2 society but not the former.

The former is direct concommitant of what gets in2 the individual in his upbringing and what makes what he presently is.The family or guardians,education,the value system etc got a major contribition in
above and if these inputs are good than it leads 2 a fairly balanced individual who is not prone 2 taking up crime due to his sense of what is ri8 n wht is wrong.Howver when v consider the case of an orphan,a weak ( mentally / physically) child or even individuals with troubled childhoods then these special cases requires reassurance in form of lov n care the lack of which generates an urge of catching attention n doing someting which satisfy there inner sense of being wanted .When i say this i also mean that other inputs in form of education,value system are missing in the upbringing of the child.This leads 2 physce which can very well lead 2 a crime on self congfigured crunch situations in life.
Hwever the solution 2 crimes does rest with the society. A model society which demonstrates gud examples of healthy value system,pragmatism n strong cultural base can lead 2
a)Non occurance of incidents where an individuals personal intrests get significantly harmed
b)Motivate misguided individuals with troubled pasts 2 not 2 stary in path of crime n find reassurance in the acceptance of the society.

I knw a model society is a therotical notion but so is crime free society. However every step taken in right dir no matter how inconsiquential will change a no. of lives n that shld actually drive us!

[gaurav200x]

Quite a marvellous post unkindmonk...... but i would defer from u on one point - education.... because its not necessary that uneducated man commits crime alone.... There are so many times, that even an educated person commits heinous activities.... If u know, that there are so many professors, intellectuals and other learned people who forget that they are civilized men and participate in the activities of ISI....

Isnt religion and bonds like these a part of society which aggravates the already befalling mentality of such people.... Society is no down an accused but on the same lines, orthodox people are to be blamed equally... They have had everything from good moral education to angel guardians, yet their beliefs are age old and totally rudimentary. I think the problem has to be taken on an individual level rather than on a mass scale

Remember, it is easy to change an individual rather than a complete society...

[sonika]

somehow i don't believe lack of education is the only cause or is the main cause for crimes.. Most of the sexual abuse(reported and unreported) is done by these so-called-educated people.. we see it almost ervy day.. work environment, buses, schools, colleges..
what is it tht drives a person to commit such heinous activities?? they r educated, well settled, sumtimes hv a lovely family back home..
On one hand, it is said that due to so much sexual freedom in media and in general..this is happening..
but then there are regions which have absolutely not being exposed to such freedom.. it hppns thr too....

Historically it can be seen that this disrespect for women/children is increasing wd times.. wt r we degenerating to???

Can any1 figure out the solution for it???
can we do something about it????
not about teachin kids to report..women to speak up..
sumthng tht stops it in bud itself???

[gaurav200x]

I second ur voice, Sonika.... because if we see the list of criminals, we can eaasily note that the majority of cases pertain to the educated ones...

Most of u might be knowing this, but for the others, the majority of the rape victims have said that the rapist was someone well known to them.... and they couldn't believe in their wildest dreams, but such a person could do a thing like that to them....

Then, the trouble comes whom to believe...? The trust and hopes of such women are completely shattered.... No wonder they will begin to hate the entire male race... and can we blame them for that?? and what's more its not only the affected female but all the ladies brand the guys as 'bastard' It is hard to swallow, but completely true....

I myself have thought over it somany times, but never can i get a solution to it??

There is already another thread in progress called "BlackNoise Project" which deals with such harassment...

At this stage, even if we talk about forming communities and trying to bring the women together, the practical question is how many of the affected women will come forward... I dont say, they wont budge at all... but wouldn't that feeling of shame and insecurity be present in them... thinking that they would only get humiliated and would not gain justice....

I want to do a lot for my community... but thinking all these things, my mind goes BLANK.... and come to think of it... i get only this solution... that to start with anything, we first need volunteers.... some committed ladies who would actually work to highlight the cause and would not back out...

Anyway, containing within the discussion.. for the moment, i would say that we would have to strike at the roots i.e. the mentality of people to change their attitude.... merely educating them will give them awareness but will not change their attitude!

[theginsoakedboy]

Guys, regarding the 1098 "Child Helpline" brochure, I came across a document by those guys.

http://www.childlineindia.org.in/pdf/awareness1.pdf

We can print a couple of pages from here and distribute it.

Esp. Pages 46, 47, 49 and 52

[gaurav200x]

Originally Posted by theginsoakedboy

Guys, regarding the 1098 "Child Helpline" brochure, I came across a document by those guys.

http://www.childlineindia.org.in/pdf/awareness1.pdf

We can print a couple of pages from here and distribute it.

Esp. Pages 46, 47, 49 and 52

A very nice article man!! Keep it up!!

p.s. The sticker and the hand out on Pg 46 and 48, is in some other language?