[ambujesh]

just to ease some tension..

[polpot]

Originally Posted by alagati

For instance, in 2005, we didn't have a team that was of very high quality on paper, or on the pitch. In the final, we were trailing 3 goals to nil. But, we won, because, we played better football that day. Otherwise, that Milan side was one of the strongest in Europe. So, let's not argue in favour of or against us (or others) being the strongest.

Hmm...it is very difficult comparing teams from different leagues apart from drawing conclusions from Champions league..!!

If ppl talk abt Besiktas and Marseille, guess we can talk abt Rosenborg ( Chelsea draw), and some Russian clubs who occasionally upset the likes of Milan n co...!!

Me not saying Liverpool is the best though, just that the bar for premier league is increasing every year...and you have top notch managers at the top clubs with funds over 50 million...so Im happy that we are just able to keep pace with them...!!
yeah as usual, deadwood shall be cleared again this year....n hopefully a more compact squad shall emerge next season...!!!

Alagati dude, Why do you twist words.
A singular victory doesn't make you a btter team. In your first para you said you outplayed Milan in the final and won with better football. Besiktas did the same to you'll in Turkey. The question of favours doesn't come in. You're contradicting yourself. When Liverpool defeats a supposedly better quality team its due to football but when a smaller team defeats you'll its an upset??? Why???

I don't agree with you as far as keeping up as well. Liverpool has spent slightly less than United and more than Arsenal and Barcelona and still pitch and paper quality is better at the other clubs.

11 million on Hleb vs 10 million on benayoun... The price bracket is the same... Tell me, is that quality???

And this thing about compact sides emerging next season et all. Hope it happens. same was said last year.

PS: this is not an attack on 'pool as a club but its season.. sorry sumitbhai;///

[alagati]

Originally Posted by polpot

Alagati dude, Why do you twist words.
A singular victory doesn't make you a btter team. In your first para you said you outplayed Milan in the final and won with better football. Besiktas did the same to you'll in Turkey. The question of favours doesn't come in. You're contradicting yourself. When Liverpool defeats a supposedly better quality team its due to football but when a smaller team defeats you'll its an upset??? Why???

I don't agree with you as far as keeping up as well. Liverpool has spent slightly less than United and more than Arsenal and Barcelona and still pitch and paper quality is better at the other clubs.

11 million on Hleb vs 10 million on benayoun... The price bracket is the same... Tell me, is that quality???

And this thing about compact sides emerging next season et all. Hope it happens. same was said last year.

PS: this is not an attack on 'pool as a club but its season.. sorry sumitbhai;///

Naa mate, I never said we outplayed Milan ( that happens once in a blue moon..!!), neither did I talk abt upsets...in europe on their day any team can beat any other...two legs different though...!!

Again, u ignored when I said its difficult to compare teams frm diff leagues...guess u notice only one side of what I say...As for Benayoun, he created the goal for Torres's goal against Chelsea....and again its his 1st season for Liverpool...I prefer to judge a player by his 2nd season..!!

Every team has its good signing and bloopers...Hyppia was bought for some 300,000 pounds frm Vitesse Arnheim I guess...a division 2 club..!!! So, for all the bad signings, I can make a list of good signings too...!!

As for the premier league, its all decided on the fine details....injuries, ref decisions , europe etc etc....Man Utd have been lucky on the injury front...Ronaldo's been fit and so have many....Chelsea have been damn unlucky...Liverpool too have been with Agger and Alonso missing most of the season..!!!

Again me not defending Rafa's mistakes, just that the slack he gets is a bit over the top..!!!

[midnite_blues]

ok here's my 2p...

***Puts on the analytical psychologist cap***

First of all no beating around the bush - Liverpool have a mediocre team for all the money they have spent... period...

I think with liverpool its just a matter of pyschological feel... That night in Istanbul is still a source of inspiration to many and so it is for the liverpool players... Hence, more often than not they come out trumps even when the odds are heavily stacked against them... (e.g : group stage of this yrs UCL)...

It is for this very same reason that they don't perform well in the league... otherwise gimme a logical explanation why a team who can beat inter milan, ac milan, barca etc etc cannot beat teams like barnsley or reading or any other lower ranked team... after all these teams are in no way comparable to those other european teams...

P.S : Pl consider these statements as the ravings of a madman...

***removes analytical psychologist cap***

[polpot]

Originally Posted by alagati

Naa mate, I never said we outplayed Milan ( that happens once in a blue moon..!!), neither did I talk abt upsets...in europe on their day any team can beat any other...two legs different though...!!

Again, u ignored when I said its difficult to compare teams frm diff leagues...guess u notice only one side of what I say...As for Benayoun, he created the goal for Torres's goal against Chelsea....and again its his 1st season for Liverpool...I prefer to judge a player by his 2nd season..!!

Every team has its good signing and bloopers...Hyppia was bought for some 300,000 pounds frm Vitesse Arnheim I guess...a division 2 club..!!! So, for all the bad signings, I can make a list of good signings too...!!

As for the premier league, its all decided on the fine details....injuries, ref decisions , europe etc etc....Man Utd have been lucky on the injury front...Ronaldo's been fit and so have many....Chelsea have been damn unlucky...Liverpool too have been with Agger and Alonso missing most of the season..!!!

Again me not defending Rafa's mistakes, just that the slack he gets is a bit over the top..!!!

this is my last reply.

umm.. you did say that Liverpool played better football than Milan. go back and check your words. And you did talk about upsets, Something about Russian teams.

As far asBenayoun... You are citing 1 example?!!??? Really??!!?!! Does that one assist make him the player of the season?? Judging players by their 2nd season is an ok tactic, but then lets see. Pennant, Kuyt, blah blah
the point never was of bad signings but mediocre ones. While in the past 2 seasons United, chelsea and Arsenal have bought Nani, Tevez, Walcott, Ballack etc etc Liverpool went and bought Benayoun, Kuyt, Pennant.

And please, the entire point of a league is that its never abpout luck, but about consistency. Minor incidents like you mentioned get evened out. And as far as injuries, Alonso has been out for 2 months in the season, rooney more than that. Agger injury, couldn't the team have a decent CB backup instead of whining about injuries. United has missed Vidic for the past 3 weeks. Do you see any complaints??

I respect the Club as a whole for its history, significance(although i wll always hate them)... I certainly feel like many others that Liverpool fans want more. and using petty excuses every season isn't done. We are getting there, we are getting there. Its been 4 seasons since. Its OK to criticise your team. It does not mean you hate them. Sir Alex has got so much flak form united fans themselves with their display in Barca although it was a good result.

[alagati]

I respect the Club as a whole for its history, significance(although i wll always hate them)... I certainly feel like many others that Liverpool fans want more. and using petty excuses every season isn't done. We are getting there, we are getting there. Its been 4 seasons since. Its OK to criticise your team. It does not mean you hate them. Sir Alex has got so much flak form united fans themselves with their display in Barca although it was a good result.[/quote]

Yep my last post too on this..!!!

We all want more, but not having patience and just criticising is not the Liverpool way...I guess its diff when ur looking at the top and when ur looking down from the top..!!
We take one step ahead, and Man Utd and Chelsea also take one step ahead, maybe 1.5 steps..!!!
Also, of all the four seasons, the American owners have been there for not much time...so now the challenge is whether Rafa can manage the big moolah..he has managed with Valencia with small players...now he has to show his acumen with his big money signing..!!

With Barry,Bentley and Rafinha lined up ( Mancini too ), the future looks bright..!!

P.S : I just hope that if Rooney and Vidic do not play against Wigan, and if they do not win the title, then no one blames it on injuries...!!!

[sumitrocks]

For instance, in 2005, we didn't have a team that was of very high quality on paper, or on the pitch. In the final, we were trailing 3 goals to nil. But, we won, because, we played better football that day. Otherwise, that Milan side was one of the strongest in Europe. So, let's not argue in favour of or against us (or others) being the strongest.

Bhai logo....yeh vaala comment to maine maara tha :innocent: And polpot, this was meant to strengthen the point that there's nothing like a 'better' team really...it's only the better team for those 90 minutes that generally wins. So, I agree with you.

Originally Posted by alagati

Naa mate, I never said we outplayed Milan ( that happens once in a blue moon..!!), neither did I talk abt upsets...in europe on their day any team can beat any other...two legs different though...!!

Again, u ignored when I said its difficult to compare teams frm diff leagues...guess u notice only one side of what I say...As for Benayoun, he created the goal for Torres's goal against Chelsea....and again its his 1st season for Liverpool...I prefer to judge a player by his 2nd season..!!

Every team has its good signing and bloopers...Hyppia was bought for some 300,000 pounds frm Vitesse Arnheim I guess...a division 2 club..!!! So, for all the bad signings, I can make a list of good signings too...!!

Again me not defending Rafa's mistakes, just that the slack he gets is a bit over the top..!!!

Alagati, please don't quote my posts out of context. you quoted me, and ended up contradicting yourself, because my point was totally different from what you originally said.

Just a clarification "slack" does not mean criticism; the word should be "flak". "Slack" refers to leniency, and I don't think Rafa gets any of it. He is blamed for his 'rotation' policy very heavily by all quarters.

Originally Posted by polpot

I respect the Club as a whole for its history, significance(although i wll always hate them)... I certainly feel like many others that Liverpool fans want more. and using petty excuses every season isn't done. We are getting there, we are getting there. Its been 4 seasons since. Its OK to criticise your team. It does not mean you hate them. Sir Alex has got so much flak form united fans themselves with their display in Barca although it was a good result.

Brilliant point, polpot. I don't think there are many more die-hard Liverpool fans than I am. But, I am OK criticising them. Of course, I respect them, and admire them, but one still needs to call a spade a spade.

P.S. Alagati, I suggest that you take a leaf out of coolroy, polpot, SRK, and swagat's books. They all are club fanatics too, but they are capable of discussing issues much more objectively.

P.P.S. I can't resist making a PJ here. What would polpot be called if he had been a Liverpool supporter?

Ans: Poolpot.

[rockball]

This thread is moving at lightning speed. And some credit goes to alagati. Everyday I don't login, there are half a dozen pages backlog.
I don't know where this Liverpool topic started but you gotta be kidding to say they are among the top 5 in Europe based on some CL games. Like I said earlier, league is the true indicator or as in cricket, a best of 5 series truly determines the stronger team.

And though I don't believe in awards, here is what I feel-
General Awards(across all leagues)

Player of the season: Ronaldo
Team of the Season: -
Underdogs of the Season: Fiorentina (did great despite losing Toni)
Coach of the season: Prandelli for above reason
Revelation(unexpected)Player of the season: Sagna from Arsenal

English Premier League
No idea

La Liga

Best Goalkeeper: Iker Casillas
Best Defender: Yaya Toure (DM technically but couldn't think of any defender who did well in a top team)
Best Midfielder: Andres Iniesta
Best Striker: Raul Gonzalez
Best Buy: Yaya Toure
Worst Buy: Pepe for the ton of money they paid

Serie A

Best Goalkeeper: Sebastien Frey
Best Defender: Juan
Best Midfielder: Daniele de Rossi
Best Striker: David Trezeguet (Domenech is the biggest jacka** on this planet to leave him and Mexes out)
Best Buy: Christian Chivu
Worst Buy: Tiago

[polpot]

Serie A

Best Goalkeeper: Sebastien Frey
Best Defender: Juan
Best Midfielder: Daniele de Rossi
Best Striker: David Trezeguet (Domenech is the biggest jacka** on this planet to leave him and Mexes out)
Best Buy: Christian Chivu
Worst Buy: Tiago

I think its because Domenech like many others feels like Trezeguet chokes on the big stage. Also, lets not forget the penalty miss in the WC Final. Domenech has made up his mind on Trezeguet and with Benzema doing so well, he doesn't need him

As far as Mexes goes, i totally agree. France has an aging backline. The upcoming guys who should be given a proper go are good. Im a big fan of Squilacchi. And Evra too. Even Clichy would do better than Abidal for France. Cant believe Boumsong is always in the Squad!!!!! Also, i don't know, but is Thuram still there?

[rockball]

You agree with Mexes being left out or not? He is just 26.
As for Trezeguet, penalty misses can happen to anyone. Don't also forget his extra time goal in Euro 2000 which won them the cup. His only problem is the fact that he cannot play with Henry but seeing their goal scoring records at international level, there is no doubt he should be there.