GD topic: Reservations or Mertocracy?

[Shubhomoy]

Reservations have not really benefitted those most in need of them in our country. It has only helped a secondary level of Reservation based elite, as opposed to a caste based one.
We tend to confuse issues. One is the provision of healthcare, education, housing, water etc. basic needs that we are as yet unable to provide to a vast section of our populace, especially rural.
The other is the question of Meritocracy, where an individual of a traditionally disadvantaged community will have an equal chance of advancing professionally if he displays the competency for an area of work. Here the COMPETENCY rather than advancement should be the focus. Unfortunately,we see it ulta-pulta, and stress on advancement over competency.
My belief is that if basic services, infrastructre and quality education are in place, there is no reason why a so called person of 'backward' class cannot advance. Instead of converting them into pitiable votebanks remembered only at election time, true empowerment will be achieved only if you provide the environment for success rather. Instead, as of today success itself is doled out to crafty or influential or monied individuals among the reserved classes as per convenience.
Meritocracy is the true leveller-harbinger of equality.

[THUSSU]

Originally Posted by Shubhomoy

Reservations have not really benefitted those most in need of them in our country. It has only helped a secondary level of Reservation based elite, as opposed to a caste based one.
We tend to confuse issues. One is the provision of healthcare, education, housing, water etc. basic needs that we are as yet unable to provide to a vast section of our populace, especially rural.
The other is the question of Meritocracy, where an individual of a traditionally disadvantaged community will have an equal chance of advancing professionally if he displays the competency for an area of work. Here the COMPETENCY rather than advancement should be the focus. Unfortunately,we see it ulta-pulta, and stress on advancement over competency.
My belief is that if basic services, infrastructre and quality education are in place, there is no reason why a so called person of 'backward' class cannot advance. Instead of converting them into pitiable votebanks remembered only at election time, true empowerment will be achieved only if you provide the environment for success rather. Instead, as of today success itself is doled out to crafty or influential or monied individuals among the reserved classes as per convenience.
Meritocracy is the true leveller-harbinger of equality.

i tend to disagree. you cannot expect someone from a small village, studying in vernacular. to score a 99 inenglish and get through the cat. remember that within the reservation categories, there is a seperate meritocracy; seats are not handed out on a first-come-first-serve basis. i do agree that the permeation (of this scheme) is poor, but that is only because of the lack of political will. i firmly believe that reservations can help but must be used judiciously and allowed in a family only once. if a father/mother has got a college ed./job through reservation, the children should not be afforded the same facility. then, all things being equal, meritocracy should come into play.

[Shubhomoy]

I am not so much against reservations themselves as a concept as the fact that the have not served much of a purpose over here. Rather than an enabler, it has become prey to further perversion. There should be some way of ensuring that the genuinely needy get the benefits of reservations, for today the better informed and already advantaged members of the reserved classes are the ones who derive maximum benefit of reservations. Then there are ways of falsely getting yourself certified as a 'Backward' or SC/ST or even 'Handicapped' to get the benefit of reservation and get unfair advantages. I don't think this is an effective way of providing equal opportunity. And yes, people have done this for admission to MBA as well in institutes that have reservation seats.
Secondly, about the point you raised regarding the education system: education should be uniform rather than discriminatory. The education available in rural schools should be upto the mark of urban areas, ultimately if not immediately. That rather than reservation will initiate social change. There's no reason why the villager should be denied the opportunity of English education that his urban counterpart gets...thus restricting his value and mobility in the job market.There is sufficient desire for it even in the villages I have known, whether in Bihar, Punjab of West Bengal. Some entreprenuers are in fact taking advantage of this and providing low cost alternatives to Government schools in rural areas which are extremely popular, and in fact people are willing to pay for it, right across the country, to give thier children better opportunity. There institutes are not upto the mark of English medium urban schools, but at least there are teachers, unlike sarkari pathshalas.
My parents have been running an private ICSE school in Punjab and one of the better performing teachers there got a Government appointment in some single teacher village school. Now he goes there twice a week and marks his attendance. When an inspection is to occur he gets advance warning (palms have to be greased for that) and sits in the school. If need be students are bribed or coerced to sit for classes for that partiular day. Inspection over, everything returns to normal.

Thanx for you views. Keep posting

[Shubhomoy]

Look at a related article on how reservations function in perverting the course of natural justice at http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...ow/1053857.cms

[reachmonil]

Hie!!

well... i would tend to agree with Shubh that the reservations directed for the ppl hasnt reached them... n generally its the well-to-do so-called backward class ppl taking away the cherry in most cases. well... this said and done.... we could recall that Dr. Ambedkar had introduced these reservations for a period of 10 yrs.... n is still being dagged on only to pump in political cofort as huge vote banks!

well.. now i feel the reservatios should be transformed to a Need-based system. children of those daily wage workers... who earn their bread by working that very day... are the ones who actually need such schemes... coz they have fallen into a vicious circle!

neways... wats the junta opinion about such a scheme?!

[vaibhavgupta_2004]

hi,

well even I agree that there should be reservations and some changes such as removal once a family member has benefitted should be applied but what I feel is that once you give reservations you cann't take it back. so it is not possible to remove those persons whose family has used it once.

So only one solution is possible, i.e. root and branch removal of reservations.

And I think that govt has failed to provide basic education, health etc. to poor precisely because of the policy of reservation. It has relied too much on reservations and put all other possible measures under backburner.

And if you say that reservation is good but it has not been properly implemented, i can also argue that caste system is good but it has not been properly implemented... so this argument takes us nowhere.

Vaibhav

[taurus_cute21]

hi,
i totally agree with thussu that reservation must be enjoyed only once by the family bcoz once the father / mother has proved himself/herself then they have the capability of providing good education to their chilren.
more over i dont understand that how can a person who gets an mbbs degree on the basis of reservation but has inputted no efforts prove to be a good and successful doctor for the society? ultimately whts our aim? our main aim is the upliftment of society. how can we uplift the society by bringing in such doctors / engg./ teachers etc. who have little or no knowledge but do clear the entrance exams just bcoz of 50% of reservation?

[Galahad.Threepwood]

My thoughts are that reservation is not a bad thing. The way it is handled leaves a lot to be desired. Rather than basing the thing on cast/creed it should be based on economic status of a person. I agree that reservation should be provided to only one generation. Is it not what the makers of the constitution also thought?

[QuintEssence]

hello ppl

sorry for bumping in..but there is another loooong thread going on in chit-chat for the reservation thingy..u might like to check it out

http://www.pagalguy.com/cat/showthread.php?t=7216 (Reservations: Does IIM really need SC/ST Candidates at the cost of brighter people)

[mona_vashisht]

Originally Posted by THUSSU

i tend to disagree. you cannot expect someone from a small village, studying in vernacular. to score a 99 inenglish and get through the cat. remember that within the reservation categories, there is a seperate meritocracy; seats are not handed out on a first-come-first-serve basis. i do agree that the permeation (of this scheme) is poor, but that is only because of the lack of political will. i firmly believe that reservations can help but must be used judiciously and allowed in a family only once. if a father/mother has got a college ed./job through reservation, the children should not be afforded the same facility. then, all things being equal, meritocracy should come into play.

i diagree wud u!!
already those people r gettin reserved seats in primary education..widout goin thru the primary education they cant be admitted in mba colleges..and if there primary education is good then there is no need for them to rely on reservations..the focus here shud be on primary education..without a base u cant build a building!!
they cannot be expected to maintain the standard of iims if they cannot get thru them properly..and they will then not be proper managers too then...even after all the education no one will want to hire them...there is just no use of reservation...only economic help is the best way out...monetory help shud be given to the ppl who lack funds..and tats all..