MY view about CAT

[neha_k]

Hi,

I feel that for lack of resources to evaluate thousands of students, the IIMs can be forgiven to not call a few 100 potentially good managers as they did not have the requisite percentiles is flawed logic.

Let us look at it this way.

If the IIMs are clear about the batch mix they want, then why not hold a separate process for each of them. To evaluate a person with 5 years of work-ex (and hence 5 years of not done quant) on the same platform as someone still in IIT is not correct. Probably essays/SOP/recos/work-ex quality, etc. can be additional parameters besides lower percentiles. If I am a manager in a company, or on my way to become one, and a certified hi-performer by my company does that not mean that I am a better candidate compared to another with no work-ex who may or may not become a good manager.

So can the process be made better ? It may require the IIMs to work harder, but end result would be that they would be better at evaluation. And I am sure that people would not mind paying another 200 Rs. extra on the form (that makes it 3 crores on 150,000 forms) if the process gives them a better method to be evaluated, and offsets the cost the IIMs incur in interviewing a 1000 more and reading SOPs.

Now, that would make a good GD topic.

Neha

[capreal26]

If you were to select a few hundred students out of a 1.5 lakh, I'd like to see how you'd go abt it. An alternative is of course the profile reading as followed by phoren schools, but there seem to be too many ppl apping here.

Raise the application fee to 5k.
Instead of 150k odd people, just 30-40k students would apply. The net cashflow from application brochures remains the same.
You have 1/5th the number of applications to process. Make the written 2 stage. Use the best practices of US B Schools in admission processes & voila !

Fact of the matter is: IIMs dont want to part with the selectivity ratio thing. Its a matter of pride for em & a matter of disgust at large at the same time. Its not going anywhere in near future esp in India where raising the fee to 5k will be seen as an elitist step rather than the rational one.

Infact, I would go to the extent of saying that HRs of recruiters are responsible for this perpetuation. These morons get a kick in thinking that they hv recruited the top 0.01% of 150K students from India.

[supervish]

Originally Posted by capreal26

Raise the application fee to 5k.

MM Joshi may be gone, but his views arent dead. It will be considered as another elitist criterion being brought in.. and gawd knows what that'll lead to.

btw .. the IIMs are looking to outsource the brawn work involved in the CAT process... big ad in yesterday's TOI.

[nnikyl007]

i need mr.arindham chwdhari's email id ,so that i can call him to join this thread,he will surely support those who hate cat.
but then wat do you think about x.a.t? s.n.a.p. ?? and other filters???
i think another thread which wud tell us disadvangs of population growth will give good reason........
i hope in future we all will use condoms.n curb no. of apl.
just kidin (arindham part was not a joke !! )

[hkannanishot]

Originally Posted by supervish

btw .. the IIMs are looking to outsource the brawn work involved in the CAT process... big ad in yesterday's TOI.

Well, the communists have got a new topic to create some noise for a few weeks

[Aarav]

Originally Posted by supervish

btw .. the IIMs are looking to outsource the brawn work involved in the CAT process... big ad in yesterday's TOI.

And they better outsource the call-issue procedure as well

[arnavsinha]

Well, the fact that so many guys have found time to express their grievances here means that CAT is important (even to them) and can't be ignored. So I don't see much point in cribbing about it. It's a test by which a few (actually more than a just a few) institutes have decided to short-list candidates by, nothing more. You want to get to these institutes, you'll have to conform to their idea of what a good manager is. If they leave out some people from their short-list, it by no long shot means that those guys aren't suitable enough to be good managers. It's just that these institutes are looking for certain basic qualities in their students, and you were unlucky enough to not match those criteria. You can still have a great career. And even for the ones who do get short-listed, it's still only half the battle won. They'll be subjected to a gruelling test before these institutes deem a fraction of them fit enough to join their ranks. It all boils down to who they want to have with them, and considering the manner in which firms lap up their students at placement time, they seem to have done a decent job so far.

There was this point about people who haven't done well in their acads so far can't really do well at an IIM either, or something like that. I think the IIMs do consider some minimum criterion of academic competence and if a student meets that he is short-listed, provided he meets other criteria. We should give the selection team from IIMs some credit for knowing who will do well at an IIM, and more importantly who will make a good manager later on.

Of course, having said that, even I do agree with the point that there should be a bit more transparency in the whole system. I don't think there's any thing else wrong with the manner in which IIMs select their students.

[12345]

This was in reply to your comment that acads are considered. Thanks for that, and most of the people who were in the process of preparation for CAT know how much of importance acads are given. Also, the comments made by most of them are not baseless and have adequate proof to be shown. Also, the only thing that IIMs are capable of doing is just change the patterns of the question paper rather than change the process itself (A cost effective manner to select some *****). I think you have gone too far in praising the IIMs for their way of selecting students. Please think again.

[arnavsinha]

Originally Posted by 12345

... most of the people who were in the process of preparation for CAT know how much of importance acads are given.

That's exactly my point! What I meant to say is that the seemingly minimal importance given to past academic record is probably enough for the selection committee at IIMs. If the professors at IIMs feel that a guy with just 60% in his undergrad course or 75% in Boards has the potential to do well in the course at IIM (which, mind you, is significantly different from what they studied at school or in their undergrad course), I don't see how we can raise objections to it. I understand your point (in fact I reread your first post on this thread), but I am sure you must have heard of people who had fairly average academic records who went on to perform above average, or at times even very well, at an IIM. I repeat that we need to have some faith in the selection process. What the process needs to ensure is that whoever does well in it is not an idiot and has some respectable level of intelligence apart from certain personality traits, and it does that fairly well (and you'll have to concede that academic record, especially in college, does not always give a conclusive idea of a person's intelligence, or those personality traits).

I think my opinion is just a continuation of what Ranjitha, cattrial and tdubey have mentioned earlier.

I agree that whetting SOPs or considering essays, or several other formats could be effective too. But would even that remove this disregard for past academic record that we are holding them guilty of? If they believe that they are not going to consider acads as a strong criterion for selection, no matter what method they employ, this belief will get reflected in it.

As far as the quality of work-ex is considered, I am sure it is a very important criterion in the PI stage. Anyone who has wasted his time at his job will definitely have a hard time in his interview. But the first round is just an elimination on the basis of, as I said before, certain minimum level of competence in areas that they want their students to be good at, and it wouldn't be justified to give too much benefit of work-ex at this stage, because having worked for 5 years in an MNC can't justify pathetic knowledge of basic mathematical skills. Even though trends do show that people with work-ex have some advantage in the first round too, with the cutoffs for them being slightly lower than those for freshers, and that's just about enough advantage that they should be given.

[deepu]

it is reasonable to accept that one's past acadamic record should be above ave to get past the hectic shedule at the IIM's.But what worries me is the way they r expecting us to have 80+%(dont have ne proof.just feel that after reading a lot of posts)in the U.G.We have a lot of universities which follows different marking schemes.Say at Nirma Institue of technology college topper will have something like 83%.in that case an above ave guy will have say 72-75%.where as if u consider Andhra university some even get 90+% in that case it is reasonable to expect an ave guy to be 80+%.
When therz no standard marking scheme how can they filter off by keeping % as high as 80%.i feel IIM's should consider this and make necessary changes.