The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary
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The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary
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zaphod
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The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary - 15-11-2004, 04:57 PM

Before I begin, let me insist this is not a troll. In fact, it's a rather small exercise I did yesterday and I am quite confused by it, but the numbers are there....

I asked a friend where I could post this stuff, for a review and he suggested pagal guy. Now seriously guy, this is not a troll, though there are some pretty crazy conclusions.... I'd just love it if the community can give me some feedback about this...

As for me, I am working in TCS, down and out now due to an injury, and have absolutely nothing against the IIMS or CAT...

Read on though ....

The entire article can also be read at : http://abyuthvad.blogspot.com/2004/1...cat-part-i.htm

The myth of the cat:

Sitting at home, without the aid of a right hand and a large displaced internal chunk of your nose, you tend to get bored. So bored, in fact that slashdot, desi sites () and rediff just bore you. Besides, parents have the odd habit of asking you every five minutes to rest your broken hand. This led me to visit the time (cat tutorial guys) site. It also made me write a small script that allows me to type left handed (thank you linux for letting me mess with keyboard opcodes). But the time site had some especially interesting data.

1. The highest salary got by anybody at IIM is 14 lakhs
2. The average otoh is 7 lakhs
3. This is excluding the bevy of guys who get dollar salaries....

I thought about this for sometime and well, “decided to run the numbers”, as the mbas amongst us may say.

Here’s what I did.

I first assumed that the IIMs have a batch strength of 300 per batch. Quite an arbit number, but the IIM site confirmed me on this.

Next I assumed that 10 students got a salary of 14 lakhs. So now I tried working out what the average salary of the others were (those of you who are taking the cat put down your hands, I know you know the answer). The average salary was 6.75 lakhs, approx. 7 lakhs.

So if 10 students got a salary of 14 lakhs 290 of us would get a salary averaging 7 lakhs.

Next for the 7 lakhs, what if 10 students get a salary of 13 lakhs? Then the average salary of the rest drops to 6.3 lakhs. I tried going on this way till when I had 10 students getting 6 lakhs, the average salary of the others were 5 lakhs.

That’s right. So some of those students had a chance of getting a salary lesser than 6 but greater than 5, while the rest would get a salary of lesser than 5.

And the number of students who would be getting a salary of lesser than 5 lakhs: 210.

A whopping 70 % can get only a salary of lesser than 5 lakhs.

If you were to take that figure as a probability measure, than the chances of you getting a lesser than 5 lakh job is 70%.

So how high is 70% Well, the chances of you getting killed in a bike accident when travelling from your house to your office is 70%. Go figure...

Slightly confused I tried increasing the number of people in each salary slot. Woo hoo....

If the number of people getting a salary of 14 lakhs, or 13 lakhs or 12 lakhs is 20 instead of 10, the probability increases to 90%.

Of course, this is provided you assume that the numbers reflect the probability.

By now I was entranced with these figures, so I made two excel sheets, with the slot size (10,20,30) and the average salaries.

You can find the sheets here and
here and



To look at the sheets, pick a row in the student’s column. Now ask yourself the question. If 10 students each got salaries of 14 and 13 lakhs, then what would be the average salary of the rest? Go to where 10 under the student’s column intersect the column mysteriously named 13. Yes. That’s the average salary of the rest.... 6.31 lakhs

The other sheet works in the same way, just having the students going from 1 to 10 instead of from 10 to 300.

If you look at the probability of a lesser than 5 lakh paying job in the 1-10 sheet, you find that the probability for a slot size of 1 is....

97%

Yes!!!!

97% (which according to me is a bloody cert. unless India are playing)

So, even if there are lesser number of people getting the 14 lakh salary then we find that there is a 97% chance of you getting a lesser than 5 lakh salary, while the probability of you getting one of the 7-14 lakh jobs is 3%(Of course, the calculations may be severely flawed for all I know. I am not staking my professional reputation on this).

Now if you were to consider the number of students getting high salaries as any indication of smartness, then your chances of getting a good salary from the iims are easier if you are in a smarter batch. However if you are quite dumb (as I no doubt am. My parents and well wishers pointed this out to me, remarking that if I were to cast aspersions on the well beings of the IIM I would be burnt at the stake. I don’t particularly bloody mind), then the chances of you getting a pretty pathetic salary are also greater.

Now I don’t know how valid these calculations are, so I’d be most interested if somebody would actually come in look my calculations over again, and do a general review of my work. Because to me it looks like if you are writing the cat to get a good salary you are doomed. The CAT seems to be a myth to me....




Footnotes:

1. Yes. This essay was typed out entirely with my left hand, on a linux box, running vim and some wicked cool mods.

2. The excel, sheet was all done with the mouse.

3. Life is like a grapefruit.

Comments people....

and thanks....
   
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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary
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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary - 15-11-2004, 05:31 PM

You have got some part of your calculations wrong.

If 10 people each get salary of 14 lakh and 13 lakh, the avg of the others is 6.53 and not 6.31 (you have to divide the remaining total by 280 and not 290). If you continue like this to 6 lakh, the avg of the others is 5.71 lakhs.

Now you realize that the figure of 10 that you had chosen is unrealistically small . Why ?
210 people are getting less than 6 lakh ... but their avg is 5.71.

Now from where did you get the 97 % figure ? I didn't understand.

Suppose your figures were correct ... 210 students getting < 6 lakhs, and their avg is 5 lakh.. Then around half of them are likely to get > 5 lakh ... so number getting < 5 lakh is around 105. (this is to keep the avg at 5 lakh)

Two more snippets of info : The IIM's also release median salary figures ... median salary is the amount x such that half the students have got salary > x and the other half salary < x. This figures is also around Rs 7 lakh. So more than 50% of IIM students get salary > 7 lakh.

The percentage of students getting those dollar salaries is significant ... last year about 15% of IIMA students got foreign offers.
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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary
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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary - 15-11-2004, 05:35 PM

Very funny..party pooper..one week to the CAT..what were you thinking.. ...Just kidding.

Here is my preliminary general review.

Hmm, could'nt see the excel chart. But it does seem you have really done some good work, and the preliminary details do seem compelling. But sorry to say I wont be able to go into details until next Sunday, but look I will. We are in a point of no return you see..no question of reducing the speed until next Sunday 1 p.m. I think PGs in IIMs could shed more light on this aspect though.

I do agree with you that perhaps not all will be happy with what they would be drawing initially, but it should also be noted that the pathetic salary being referred to is quite a handsome amount to a majority of the candidates. Next, one also has to think of the education in the IIMs as a passport to various avenues as opposed to, at most, one avenue that we are in right now. Also, I would say careers through IIMs offer more opportunities in the long run if not in the short run.


adios,

- pooran


Illegitimi non carborundum est...
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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary
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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary - 15-11-2004, 05:42 PM

o.k.. if you look at the original article on my blog you'll see that the links to the sheets are there...

in fact it's pretty surprising that the iims provide a median salary.. I'd be really glad if they did provide the complete sal breakup in fact...

cmon at paying 5 lakhs for tutions alone, I think a little bit more info would be valuable.....

btw, can you direct me to the link having the iim median salaries...

and thanks a lot...
   
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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary
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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary - 15-11-2004, 05:48 PM

Hi Zaphod! - nice take on the salary levels of the IIMs. I really appreciate the effort u put into this. Its an interesting take on whether its all worth it etc .
There are a few points though which i beleive u havent taken into consideration

a)You've been working for the last 2-3 yrs (arbit number). For you 5-6 lakhs is not a significant jump in pay packet. For a fresher its 50K/month. In the mind it registers differently.

b)When i do an MBA i am taking an initial hit in my pay packet. Thats coz im starting at the bottom of the chain - again. This is applicable only to ppl with work ex of 1-3 yrs. Im investign 2 yrs of earnings , time etc . But the long term gains offset it. At least in my opinion. A manager makes more money and works less compared to a technical guy in any given company. Seriously tho - the growth in terms of profile and cash are exponentially different with an MBA esp if its from an IIM.

c)An MBA course - cannot be evaluated solely on the basis of immediate monetary gains. The education itself must count for something. It sounds trite but i beleive it. I would place the value of the education as also equally important as cold hard cash. Plus an IIM branding gives you confidence (false or otherwise ) and opens doors which might have been shut before.

The immediate salary after one graduates (i wish )- may be not a HUGE hike, i agree with you there. But n the medium to long term it DOES fetch you monetary gains.

*ps->Get well soon. and again interesting take on salaries ..
   
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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary
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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary - 15-11-2004, 05:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod @ Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:57 pm
97%

Yes!!!!

97% (which according to me is a bloody cert. unless India are playing)

So, even if there are lesser number of people getting the 14 lakh salary then we find that there is a 97% chance of you getting a lesser than 5 lakh salary, while the probability of you getting one of the 7-14 lakh jobs is 3%(Of course, the calculations may be severely flawed for all I know. I am not staking my professional reputation on this).

Comments people....

and thanks....
hehe, if only that is true
well, let me give one more tragic logic.

lets assume, you are earning 2lpa before entering IIM as soft. engg.
now, lets assume, you are looking at a 6lpa career after 2 years of slog.
now, you also know that life after mba is not going to be as easy as life of soft. engg.
also you know that your salary would become 3lpa if you continue to type with your left hand and buy coffee from vending machine for the next two years.
then, suddenly an obvious flash of wisdom hit your brain. You decided to call off the reservation you made to iim fairy land.
you decided to work twice the time as soft. engg. so that your salary at the end of 2 years is 6 lpa.
BINGO, there you are earnign 50kpm and

The sad part is the above logic *NEVER* works. Life is not excel sheet dude.

Hope you got the point :P,
Chandoo


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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary
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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary - 15-11-2004, 05:51 PM

Firsst, I got to admit that I haven't read yuor full post. I may have missed some stuff, but I did notice some numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod @ Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:57 pm
A whopping 70 % can get only a salary of lesser than 5 lakhs.
No B-schooler would possible validate these figures due to the confidentiality rules etc. but, trust me, if this is the case, all of us would jump of our institutes. Honestly.

And 10 people getting 14 lacs, then 10 getting 13 lacs etc doesn't happen. Some aberrations do get 10+, but generally most of them get &lt;10 lacs. So, the lower extreme is not as bad as you think.


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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary
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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary - 15-11-2004, 05:59 PM

true..

the education gotta count for something...

as for the brand, who amongst us here is not familiar with the look of devotion and fawning that comes upon prospective father in laws, when they hear the magic term: IIM or Green card (alas IITs used to be there)....

btw, before this in college I had my own company which was making a cool 3 lakh a year....

I sold it to join tcs to experience the corporate life.

At this point I gotta wonder if cat's my inthing, seeing everybody wants me to get married settled down, and not do anything risky like entrepreneurship....

My motto goto be: I do cat not to manage, but to create
   
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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary
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Re: The myth of the CAT or Why the IIMS cannot get you a good salary - 15-11-2004, 06:00 PM

Quote:
The sad part is the above logic *NEVER* works. Life is not excel sheet dude.
So True...


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15-11-2004, 06:18 PM

Zaphod ... go through the following sites.

http://learning.indiatimes.com/bm/news/IIMA_29_4.htm
http://www.blonnet.com/2003/03/20/st...2000511700.htm
http://www.indiabschools.com/O_C_Sur...acedetails.htm

The first 2 have info about median salry of foreign offers ... the third for Indian offers.


Why don't you see the fatal flaw in your logic.
You said the avg salary of the lower 210 people is 5 lakh ... and then said 210 people have salary less than 5 lakh.
This is a mathematical impossibility.
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