[Chandoo]

hehe
that is just a part of a very big picture :d
well, score.. i dont think i remember it. percetile.. here you go...
va - 90
di - 99.1
qa - 99.8
net 99.5
calls BIK
converts I

God bless you ,
Chandoo

[aspire]

Dear Chandoo ,

was really moved by ur posts specially when u lay bare ur emotions on not getting where u wanted to be , but ur grit determination and attitute to share ur experience with others is just great .

gr8 job .

wish u all the best in ur life .


p.s what is chandoos favourite band

aasma lol chandoo ke chacha ne

[shrikanthk]

Thought I would write about my tryst with the feline monster.

Even as a kid , I was aware of IIMs ,thanks to my father who
is an IIMC dropout - 1970 batch,(dropped out owing to ill health).
I became interested in doing my MBA partly because of
my disillusionment with the Computer-Science course that I'm
pursuing and partly due to my interest in a number of management-
related disciplines.

I seriously contemplated writing CAT 2004 in aug-2003.Wrote the
IMS diagonostic test(cat 2k2 paper)and got a decent score of 50 with
zilch preparation.IMS counsellors(who specialise in misguiding students)
told me that an ideal score was 90 in that paper(which was apparently
the score of the 100th %iler that year, as I learnt later) .As I wasn't a member of PG at that stage,I believed them implicitly and looked down upon myself. The mistake I did at that time was to hype up CAT
and IIMs out of proportion.

I conceived IIMs as institutes inhabited by Supermen fulfilling
Neitzche's ideal.I thought only IIT/NIT geeks with exceptional number crunching skills can dare to think of IIMs.This defeatist attitude set me back at a very early stage of my preparation.
I joined the ims Classic course.Didn't solve the BRMs systematically.
My average Simcat %ile was around 98.5,which wasn't great.
Ranks were in the 100-400 range, the best being 60.Despite decent
overall scores, I never made it to the national achievers list,QA
being my nemesis on most occasions. I would advise 2k5 aspiirants
to give as much attention to sectional %iles as to the overall %ile.
Getting 90+ in all sections is the only hope of getting a call,if you are
not in the 99.5+ bracket.

In the end,CAT was a flop,with a single digit score in QA and an overall
score of around 50-53(which is almost the same as my diagonostic test score)What are the takeaways from my experience?
1. Don't create hype around the exam or the institute.While you probably
need to be very ,very good to get 100th %ile, an average IIM student
is by no means exceptional.

2. Classroom coaching is a waste, especially for engineers with
reasonably sound fundamentals.

3. Think big always. Don't be satisfied with 98-99 ish %iles.
Consider anything below 99.6-7 to be a failure(especially if you are a fresher).

4. DO not overlook your sectional performances.

5. Don't study for CAT at the expense of something else.
After all,as someone else has said on this thread, CAT is an aptitude test
and a person's aptitude can improve but not by much.

[G O V A R]

CAT results out. Now what?

I posted this in my blog coz a coupla ppl asked me... but our Praveen thot it'd be useful if I post here... so just a copy-paste.


For those who didn't make it, well, there's always a next time. Trust me, there is no such thing as geniuses getting 98/99, and the second rung getting 96/97. Its mostly a matter of luck and sincerity in preparation. I'm stating this as a fact coz after being with 6 months with people who scored between 97.5+ to 99.8s, I'm quite convinced that preparation and luck matters a lot. Better luck next time!

Some myths and facts based on some questions I've been asked:

Myth: Sub 98, I wont get calls.
Reality: There are people in our batch with 97.5 whereabouts, although few and far between. Typically, if your resume is different, you stand a chance.

Myth: Sub 90 in one section, I wont get calls.
Reality: We have 2/3 who have 80 whereabouts in one section. But then, I havent spotted a guy with less than 90 percentile in VA.

Myth: I can't improve CAT scores.
Reality: I've seen people from 68/70 percentiles one year getting 99 percentiles next year, with sincere preparation. Trust me, they weren't prodigies.

Myth: Percentiles matter for converting GD/PIs to final calls.
Reality: It doesn't appear to be so. Percentile effects, if anything, would probably be minimum.

Myth: Order of interview calls reflect relative positions.
Reality: Order of interviews would depend on you CAT registration number. You might end up seeing the same people again and again.

Myth: Entry barriers for freshers would be high.
Reality: Everything depends on the relative application levels. IIMs try to make a balanced batch. But typically, its quite true that freshers need more percentiles for getting calls. I don't see a bias in GD/PI though.

Well, for all those who crossed the 98/99 percentile barrier, congrats. Get ready for the real rat race. Most importantly, brush up your current affairs etc, and read a lot of newspapers. If possible, join some of the coaching institutes to take training (IIMB guys would conduct a GD/PI course in Bangalore) or form some interest groups made of aspirants who got calls. Make sure that you aren't so close to those guys coz that would bring a personal touch, which would make it informal. If you are looking for more information, feel free to mail me (http://govar.blogspot.com) or Chandoo (http://chandoo.org/blog) or Jam (http://mahabore.blogspot.com)

[Thinker]

Do you really think somebody will go thru more than 1.5 lakh profiles!! I hope not.
And do you really think that it is random.....iim ppl are not fools!!......so better not crib about iims if you have lack of info.
Have you heard of linear programming???
By using this, a model is made where you put constraints of what you do not want and get the solution accordingly.
Few examples of constraints:
1 overall percentile>=96 (when work ex > 3years )(and something else if something special....w.r.t different iims)
2 overall percentile>=98 (when work ex <=1.5 years)(and something else if something special....w.r.t different iims)
3 percentage in 10th and 12th>=80% (when work ex greater than 2 yrs and something else when greater than that) (and something else if something special....w.r.t different iims)
These are just few examples, I am sure things are much more complicated...in reality....and then you run all 1.5 lakhs profile in the model and you get the result....and in this process some ppl mite get some advantage and some mite be less lucky to fall in the right mix..... Sometimes you will find ppl cribbing about that they were good in everything than a particular person in all these things....then you are missing out on things like accuracy about which even you do not know.......for ex: attempting 40 questions and getting 23-24 right will get you that percentile which you are proud of.....but that also signals that you have been guessing in the paper.....which IIMs mite not want.....and now can you get me the statistics of accuracy......and this is just one possibility.... .. and what you calculate according to some answer keys given by some institutes is not the very accurate figure (last year 30 answers given IIMs and instititutes were different) so the answer key can also be pretty much different than what you or any institute think is.... Sometimes it turns out to be unfair but go to another end ......it is not that simple......and is not partial in any way.....it might just be that you mite not have the rite kindaa balanace which a perticular iim is looking for on the basis of which they form this model.... so either you fall in the model or you do not....
and ppl talking about transparency.....it can not be made transparent bcoz iims always strive to make the model more and more efficient.......and there is no perticular set model that iims follow year after year....so what you mite find this time, you mite not find next year.......and that is also not random it on the basis of students getting admission every year.....suppose a student who gets very good percetile but had dismal performance in degree.....and gets thru in a perticular model.....and is not able to cope up in iims....then next year one constraint might increase ex : percentage in degree shud be greater than what was there in the model used in last year.......but yeah if you do not get calls then you might find some solace in criticizing about the system.... then you go ahead, i should not deprive you of that liberty....."india is a free country Smile" you shud speak what you want to.... but dude, think logically and you will get the answer to your own queries.....but you gotta see the big picture.....just do not let stats come in your way to think logically......There is always a reason behind everything!!... i hope i made my point clear.....so guys stop thinking about what you did not get and celebrate for what you got.....and try to encash it......by the end i will just say....."there is something called destiny"....Good Luck!!

[pendyal]

My first attempt at writing something substantial. So probably gonna have a lot of mistakes. Add to it the fact that I am really bad at putting down my views in black and white. So I will take Chandoo’s post as a guiding post.

I am from a commerce background doing my ICWAI simultaneously. My parents always wanted me to take the CAT. In my 2nd year one of my lecturers insisted on my taking an open mock test by prime (Hyderabad). Scored decently in that one. After that I decided to plunge headlong into prep for CAT. Joined time as soon my grad exams were over in March 2004. Reasons for joining an MBA program? Hmm…. first is the fact that I can boss ppl around add to it the fact that it is just a logical extension of my field of graduation and that’s what I really wanted to do and of course the pay packet and the social standing….

In the first class at time we were asked to identify our strengths and weaknesses (just an estimation of what we feel). My strengths are quant (and hence DI) and also my reading speed in RC and I was a bit weak with the verbal/vocab part. So I spent most of the time in doing the practice exercises from the time material. This is not to say that I didn’t bother about the quant/DI part. I had done the speed maths booklet in the first month after joining time (march-april). In the beginning all there was to do was to attend classes and just do some follow-up at home. But this I felt was the most crucial part of one’s prep. It can really affect one’s chances of a good performance if one is not really bothered about one’s prep at this stage. Even though we cant do the quant on our own without help form someone it makes a lot of sense to finish as much of the verbal prep at this point because this section requires the least help from outsiders. Also if one is comfortable he/she cud also do as much of DI as possible (I mean understanding the different graphs, charts, etc.).

I tried to finish my verbal section’s preparation as fast as possible coz it had been emphasized from the start that this was the section where one cud score. Did my word lists (cue cards given by time as part of the study material). Apart from that reading papers and mags and writing down and understanding all the new words I came across really helped me boost the one area I was weak in (vocab). For other areas of verbal like sentence correction, correct usage of words there is no other way of being good at them other than to do all the practice exercises and to read as much as possible.

For DI all I did was to do the exercises at least 5 times each. This helped me to recognize just by seeing which questions were sitters, which were doable and which were to be left. For LR there is rally no other way other than to practice as many LR sets one comes across. DS requires us to have a strong grounding in basic math and also knowledge of certain shortcuts which can be had from class X , XI, XII textbooks or from the material given by the coaching instis.

Quant: my strongest section. I never prepared for this section in the true sense of the word. Going through the material, doing the exercises and the speed maths was all I did for this section.

RC was another of my strongest areas. All the time I had wasted during my school and college days reading books has been of help in this section. Apart from reading speed a good vocab is also necessary for this section as most of the passages one comes across are bound to contain at least 5 new words. Reading a lot will help not just from the reading speed point of view but also by helping us to understand what the author is saying if we come across new words.

Now the most crucial part of the prep for CAT is the mock tests. After 2 months of doing nothing in the classes (apart from a few topic based tests) I was really looking forward to writing my first mock CAT. As luck would have it , the date of the mock clashed with that of my ICWAI exams. So couldn’t take it. took all the mocks from the second one onwards. My performance in the mocks was good. But the really important part of the mocks was not what I did in the test centre but what I did after coming back home. As soon as I was back, I would first evaluate my performance in the test from the key given. Then sitting down and identifying the mistakes I made in the test (leaving sitters, spending too much time on a question, etc.). this would take up a good 2 hours of my time but it was time well spent. All the strategies were put to test one by one and by the time I had taken my 14th mock CAT I had finalized my strategy for the real CAT (assuming that the paper would not be very much different from what we were given in the mocks). It’s a different thing that this strategy had to be thrown out of the window as soon as we were given the paper on Nov. 21st. spent the last few mocks fine-tuning this strategy. Taking as many mocks as possible is a good thing but one has to be wary of fatigue or burnout. I didn’t take any mocks in the last 2 weeks apart from the Sunday AIMCATs as I felt my performance was going down.

After all the prep for 7 months at last the day of reckoning had arrived. With the constant hammering of the coaching instis (“the only thing that we can be sure about CAT is change”) and my fathers words ringing in my ears (“trust your instincts”) I went into the hall hoping that I was prepared for everything. The paper sent all of us in the room into a shock. Luckily for me my instinct took over and I am glad that happened. How else can one explain the fact that I started of my quant section with the 2 mark questions which were supposed to be tough. It was the best thing that happened to me as far as I can remember. Coming back to the paper, I started of with VA section. First the half mark questions, then the one mark ones (RC included except for passage 2) and then 2 of the 2 mark questions (the paragraph jumble ones). Spent 40 minutes on it. next was the quant section where for some reason I decided to have a look at the 2 mark questions first. Felt that they were easy and finished all of them in about 20 minute. Came back to the one mark questions, did 15 of them in around 20 minutes and proceeded to section I. didn’t find it as tough as other people though it was definitely tougher than last year’s DI. Spent the last 40 minutes on this section. Attempted 26 from part A and 8 from part B.
Overall I was satisfied with my performance and was expecting a good score. After seeing the keys released by various instis was really happy with my performance. But 100%? That was even beyond my wildest dreams.

Right now the only thing I am sure of is the fact that I will taken apart by the interview panels of the different management institutes. Just hoping everything goes well.

All the very Best to everybody…

Bye..

[Howard_Roark]

Hi Pendyal,

great work with good intentions.

thanks for sharing your journey towards IIMs. I believe you will make it to those which you desire and deserve.

keep posting your good as well as bad moments of CAT preparation.
It will definitely serve as an impetus to all of us.


thanks.

[v02]

Very interesting and inspiring posts by Chandoo and Pendyal.
I took printouts of their posts and always keep them with me. (Compiled all of Chandoo's posts into a single file).

Read them whenever I feel the motivation flagging. It always perks me up whenever I read their posts.

Thanks guys.
By the way, me going to give CAT for third time in 2k5.

[Chandoo]

Was thinking of posting here for quite sometime. well, sometimes Republic day helps in other ways too

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All I Wanted to Say about GD/PI

Before joining IIM Indore in July 2004 I have attended 9 real GD/PIs. I am able to convert 3 of them. There were lots of key takeaways from all these experiences. This post aims to throw some light in what works best in a GD/PI and what can make one a failure in GD/PI.

GD

- Reading: many people say that for a good GD performance reading a lot is sine-qua-non. Well, I would say more than reading you need to have an opinion on diverse topics. This need not always come from reading. You can gain a POV on hazaar things by watching TV, chatting with friends (basically arguing), surfing, and more importantly using your gray cells. So even if you are not a very avid reader there is no point worrying about it now. In whatever little time you have try to gain an opinion on most of issues in most of the areas.

- Structuring your thoughts: many of us would feel often “shucks, I forgot to say about this point in the GD”. Well, my dear friend you are not alone. I felt the same way after at least 7 of those 9 GDs. The key to beat this is to structure our thoughts. Through out our schooling/college teachers constantly bombarded us about reading and doing. But no one told us how to think. I guess this is the reason why some of us fail to objectively analyze the issue before us in GDs. There are some very good websites where you can get some basic guidelines on how to structure your thoughts.

- Going to new places: What do we think an evaluator does in the GD? By no means he/she can remember the whole 20 mins of discussion happening in the room. Also many a times memorizing the entire 20 mins discussion wouldn’t help him/her in judging the people. One of the things they look in a GD is “who is going to new places?” by new places I mean taking the risk of thinking in new directions and channeling the discussion in those directions. It is not always easy to think in new directions. Especially when you lack in point no 2. One best way to do this could be negation. Whatever the speaker is saying you can think of the opposite and sometimes it yields good results. Also sometimes the discussion moves towards a cul-de-sac and group loiters there without any purpose. At this time if you can take the role of moving the group from there you get the brownie points.

- Listening: I cannot tell you how much this is important for you in a GD.

- Gaining groups support and airtime: there are at least 1001 ways of gaining support/airtime by being rude or noisy. But most of them suck. Some of you might be feeling that no matter what you do in the GD you don’t get a chance to speak. Try this next time. Get an eye contact with the person who is speaking. Smile gently at the person. Nod your head and pay attention to him. At one point or other he also smiles back. Snatch the opportunity and speak. You can find such body language tips in your GD material or websites.

- Optimism: All said and done, if you don’t have belief in yourself no tip, no amount of training can help you in cracking a GD. It takes a lot of guts to come out in public and speak and make sense. So don’t feel belittled if you are not very good at that right now. Rather persist and you will have your day soon.

Interviews

- Know thyself: If there is anything that the interviewer doesn’t know very well and you know way too much, it is YOU. So the best way to start preparation is to start knowing yourself. Prepare a killer CV. Know more about your family, hometown, college, hobbies, friends, job, education etc. gather some interesting trivia about the above listed items and if the chance comes tell them to the interviewer. He/she will definitely be impressed.

- Acads/Job: You know what to do.

- Admit your mistakes: many people feel that if they admit a mistake their interview is screwed. In MBA jargon we call in escalation of commitment. Believe me there is nothing like admitting your mistakes and going back to comfort zones.


Some of the key mistakes you can avoid in GD/PIs

- Dumbness: no matter what happens in a GD try speaking. Don’t complaint about the GD becoming a fish market. If it is a fish market you be a part of it or better still try making it more sensible than staying silent. I did this mistake in my IIM B Interview and lost it.

- Ignorance: prepare well for the interview. Don’t take it too casually. Staying cool interview doesn’t mean staying uniformed about the key areas. For example I was grilled on probability/statistics/queuing in IIT SOM interview. I dint prepare much in that area despite it being a course I did in graduation and highly relevant to my field (comp sci). I failed to convert the interview

- Lack of Passion: Sometime if everything is worse in you and if you still have the kick ass passion to make it to the school then you might get selected. All you need to do is display your passion and why you want to join the school through out the interview. But passion isolated to PI is not going to work. You need to display in the SOP, GD and other stages as well.

- Running away from reality: B schools also like people with high levels of creativity. But that doesn’t mean that you should move away from reality. Suppose if the interviewer asks where do you want to be 10 years after MBA and if you say something like I want to be a project manager or CEO of an MNC it doesn’t work. Try to be more sensible and realistic in your answers.


Well, that is all I can think of now. Meanwhile my request to other b schoolers: post your tips/tricks/suggestions/ideas here and lets make the journey painless for would be class of 2007.

All the Very Best for GD/PI 2005.

Goodday ,
Chandoo

[vishalgoel]

How to improve RC.

You must have heard this umpteen no of times. There is nothing new I am gonna add. But still.............

The mantra to crack RC of CAT is to
Read, read and read.

now the question comes Read what.

Well dovote atleast 1 hour only for reading. Read Newspaper editorials, magazines and some novel or book. After reading an editorial column or a magazine article, close your eyes and try to recollect what have you read, try to summarize that. This will improve your comprehension.

Time yourself while reading editorials. try to improve by 1 sec each day, this way you can improve your reading speed.

By following these two steps, you ll be able to strike a balance between your reading speed and comprehension. And that is the only thing required to crack RC.

Besides reading, make a habit of attempting 1 RC passage everyday. By doing this, you ll be exposed to lot of RC passages on varied topics and you ll come to know about your mistakes. While attempting practice RC passages try to be accurate. And see it as a challenge.

Try it for few days.

-Vishal