[vivekhyd]

This is a bold topic I know and I am gonna be hit with e-chappals and e-tomatoes. But I feel the IIM selection system is faulty.

Heres why, the batch proportion remains more or less the same every year. Almost same number of engineers, less than 18 months work-ex, 24 month work-ex and veterans. Give and take few percentage points. That can’t just happen every year unless the selectors are indenting it to be that way. Meaning, they WANT this proportion to be in every batch, which is statistically speaking – tampering.

What I mean is, if say Ys 2000 had 40% engineers and the next year had 36% engineers, then there is an issue. But if it drops to 15% engineers, then the selection is purely based on clearing points and nothing else.

Schools such as Harvard and Stanford have totally varied batch profile. Each batch is random unlike the IIMs.

The issue might seem silly on the outset, but even there is a valid reason for this. The IIMs are selecting based on Industry needs. Which is again, the opposite of what Harvard does. Foreign Bschools have batches the way it comes – the selection process is tamper-proof so to say and companies have to just pick from them. Here in the IIMs, the things have gone monotonous. Each batch is the same. Same profile, same type of class and garbage.

[goofy]

hay vivek
i dont think the IIM system is faulty .the system has been running very sucsessfully and there is no problems .but ya there is a lot of mystery in the selection process and i think we all have accepted it and have no problems (except say getting A,B and missing C)
again selecting depending on the indstury needs ,i dont think that is anything a problem .i dont find anything wrong in changing batches depending on the industry needs .i think we need to fully integrate with the industry requirements and ya the IIM ppl will have all the calculation done in the backyard
anything we cant do anything about it

cheers
goofy

[Gordon]

lets be frank...in India there is nothing much that u can do after ur 12th std. exam. (or so we're made to believe)...so parents will coax their children to go for engg. or medical... i know this because i have seen numerous enggineers lose interest in engg after the 2nd year...so what do we have is the top cream of our country going in for engg. irrespective of their likes n dislikes...

this crowd in the thirrd year realises that the technical line is not their cuppa tea and then decide to switch over to the mgmt. bandwagon...the hype created by the media and biz mags help...dreams of million rupee salaries et al make the average enggnr. to opt 4 mgmt. now given the fact that he already has analytical skills (the engg. maths helps...and not to say that comm. guys r bad) he has a distinct edge over non engg students. only in sum cases is vocab an area of concern. this results in majority engg. students making it to b schools...(another incentive is the high capital costs of doing an MS coz schols are given after u land in the US).

on the contrary, in havard etc, (or rather in other countries) ppl r not "forced" into careers like engg. or rather ppl r encouraged to go 4 what we wud call an "offbeat" career. so when such ppl from different backgrounds decide to go 4 mgmt. we have a "mela" and not an engg. convention.

another angle to this story is the large number of IITians who land up in the IIMs. 6 IITs churn out around 5000 grads of which hardly 200 or max to max 500 go for higher studies abroad. now of the remaining very few join industry and the rest vie for those 1200 odd seats in IIMs...so u get the picture

[Sameer Gupta]

My views on this regard:

Consider this, Indian MBA's have never been known for the research (leave apart CK Prahalad and a few others. The # is negligible comppared to MBA coming out every year) and the Indian B-Schools have always focussed on market skill requirement and industry scenario. This is the same with candidates as well. No matter how much Indian students deny or give various views, they plan to do their MBA only to get a better Job/Career, higher salaries and a better jump in terms of position or companies.

I think, though I have not much idea, there would not be so much focus on employibility of the candidates abroad. They focus more on the real need of the candidate in terms of management abilities, skills, RESEARCH, consultancy etc.

Now when the focus is more on employibility, the IIMs, SPJs and XLRIs have to consider that when taking candidates for admission.
I remember reading a post on Pagalguy regarding SPJ interview. The member said, "If you prove that you would be able to place yourself/or they would not have much problem in placing you after 2 years, then you are into SPJ." This is not the exact statement, but the statement meant exactly what the above means.

And I feel this is what SPJ is really into as well. I do not have an iota of doubt about it. If you look at the profile of candidates of SPJ, you would find that so many of them are from Infy...and it appears that after 2 years of MBA, Infy would again come and take them for a higher position/sal. This would be reflected in the salaries stats, the instt would make and hence they gain from it. If not Infy, some other IT firm would certainly take them coz, they have a MBA degree from a reputed instt and Infy exp. Leave apart Infy, all the candidates are from good MNC's and working at a good level in the org.

I do agree that they have become reputed, coz they certainly add something to the candidate they select, but then if they can add the same to a guy whose acads are not brilliant, who is not working in Infy/TCS/Wipro, then it means a real challenge for them. Even that guy is working in a smaller firm, even he is responisble for managing ppl etc etc. Even he has

I feel to a certain extent, this can be mapped for IIMs as well. If a candidate is scoring 90+ in X XII or is from IIT/REC etc, he certainly is brilliant coz he has proved it. And he proves it again in the CAT, gets in. Finishes MBA and then gets a wonderful placement. What abt ppl who have scored only 70-75 in X XII Grad, they get up late in academics. Still they manage to perform quite decent in CAT say 96-98 percentile-- which means top 5000 out of 1,30,000. Don't they deserve to be called for Interview at least.

I agree with all the various factors like, Instt cannot call 5000 ppl for GD/PI etc etc. And hence do not blame the process fully. To a certain extent, YES.

So it is purely not that the IIMs selection process is bad, it is the need of the market in Indian perspective. Consider this from an overall view and not a personal view.

I too am waiting since last 3 years for a single IIM call. Well this time I screwed up Re-CAT big-time. So I myself am to be blamed..!!

Best of Luck ..!!
Sameer Gupta

[Gordon]

well missed a point coz when i was typing goofy answered... ya there is nothing wrong in going acc. to industry needs... in fact the IIMs and the IITs were set up with the idea of providing professionals to industry (read the CAT bulletin... the reason why each IIM was formed...) actually u can say we have drifted a bit. eg. IIM-B was set up for PSU units, but it has landed up gifting our Intellectual capital to MNCs...IIM-A hardly provides MBAs for the now defunct textile industry in Ahmdbad. etc, etc,. Nor do any of the IIM grads make it to the Govt. services...(i think i might attract e- chapals here as well)...this was Nehrus dream....but alas we Indians have landed up subsidising the professional education of ppl who will help the economy of countries other than our own...

[tavaishnav]

Originally Posted by Xcesstorque

well missed a point coz when i was typing goofy answered... ya there is nothing wrong in going acc. to industry needs... in fact the IIMs and the IITs were set up with the idea of providing professionals to industry (read the CAT bulletin... the reason why each IIM was formed...) actually u can say we have drifted a bit. eg. IIM-B was set up for PSU units, but it has landed up gifting our Intellectual capital to MNCs...IIM-A hardly provides MBAs for the now defunct textile industry in Ahmdbad. etc, etc,. Nor do any of the IIM grads make it to the Govt. services...(i think i might attract e- chapals here as well)...this was Nehrus dream....but alas we Indians have landed up subsidising the professional education of ppl who will help the economy of countries other than our own...

While these may have been the original aims, don't you think an institution (specially a b-school) should be dynamic? In a time-span of 3 or 4 decades, the (narrow) aims with which these were established may certainly change. Specially after the liberalisation, when India needed large manpower in various fields in management.
But you are right about the govt. services part. IIM graduates are not exactly known for govt. service . The reason is that they have got better-paying cos. coming to campus for placements. Govt. is hardly an option at all, and only a few PSUs may be attractive as your first placement after b-school.

All IMHO.
-Ted

[MavericK]

Machan.. the funda is simple..
If you make it.. Its fair and square..
and If you don't.. Its unfair... LOL !!

[vivekhyd]

Look at this way, the IIMs are NOT giving out job creators anymore, they are just the regular job seekers with a high price tag. Now, i attrubute this to the kind of monoty that has set-in the batches over a period of time. The U.R.Rao committe says, we produce only 250 management PHDs every year as against 60,000 MBAs. These are matters where the IIMs have failed.

We don't have thought leaders from these temples. Too much of attitude comparted to the value-add they give.

[Moksha sans Cat]

Originally Posted by anil

Machan.. the funda is simple..
If you make it.. Its fair and square..
and If you don't.. Its unfair... LOL !!

CAT...??? now, what is that..?? :
u see, i've been prescribed anti-memory pills by da doc :idea: to forget that i'd even appeared for CAT once upon a time....kindly adjust

[jsukumar]

I agree IIM selection is as fair as can be with just one exam given to judge someone. But the IIMS could do with a little transparency about negative marks and scoring system......That would be much better. Like in the lines of XL/FMS.They have made astep in the right direction by giving out score cards.

Probably there should be a complete overhaul of the system with an exam like GMAT that can be taken all year around. And setting minimum scores for applying to IIM's that way the IIMS would have less applications to process. So they could evaluate students based on SOP and stuff that could help gauge the attitude and inspiration of the student. Or even better conduct interviews all year round on the week ends . But that would be a logistical nightmare for the IIMS .OOPS but then they would loose their revenure from CAT. So they could compensate by asking corporates to pay per candidate or something but again there is the eternal problem of candidate switching after a year so the corporates may not be willing to recruit then.

So now the cat is an obselete system even the IIM's know that and the flaws have come from the bottom up because of our exam oriented system. So acads are not always a true measure of potential.......So I guess we are stuck with CAT until we overhaul the complete education system ......

And think about it if the HRD ministry has its way NO INTERVIEWS just CAT!!!!!!!!!!!So you would require 99.8 %le to stand a chance to get into IIM A!!!!!!!! and 99%le plus for any IIM .........