[hardilip]

Originally Posted by warrior

what about those who are not able to get the admission beacuse of him thou they are more deserving ones.

Its okay if one year is wasted because of all this of a Genral Category Student but nothing should happen to our OBC's. Whaaaaa

anyways he can always take back his resignation. It svery much possible and many people have doen that. Also if he has a work ex it wont be difficult for him to get another job.

I would like to make sure i never mentioned quota should have been there..... i have mentioned in my previous posts too that quota should not have been there......
But it being present this year in the forms u have all right to mark it...
and after that if u get the admission u have the right to resign.....its the responsibility of the insti to honour the offer....

I am asking why should the OBC guy go thro this when there is no fault of his involved ....and if we cant take his sobbing in the right sense im afraid there is a serious flaw in our thinking.....

Neways i welcomed a debate on the guy being offered and then put on hold.....
But his is turning out to be anti-quota/pro quota.....which is very sensitive and i dont want to get into this....

Thanks & Regards,
Dilip

[buzzeG]

<snip>
<doublepost>

[buzzeG]

the iims were pretty dumb not to have foreseen this and to hav completed their admissions procedures and declare the final calls before the date of the hearing.. coz i think once u finally offer admission atleast u cant revoke it.. one can act helpless and thats whats every1 else does when in distress but a better more planned approach is expected from the iims..

the ripple effect of any delay is gonna be huge.. on the admits to other institutes (ISB, others..), on immediate career prospects (many have shy ed from takin up new responsibility and growth opportunities in their jobs for the past 3 months) and on ppl generally planning to pursue other academic interests..

i dont believe the ppl who take decisions are even aware of how much even one day means to them.. ask some one who has been selected for ISB this year and you will know..

man these iims hav made it a habit to play with students' lives..
they better learn to stand up and think about the thousands who are worryin out there.. b4 ppl lose faith in em.

as for the delay.. in case its jus mental torment that u are facing and not real serious job or academic or financial problems, guys relax.. anyways the results cannot be withheld till eternity.. and i dont think the general seats will be reduced by any chance.. enjoy the freedom b4 u get step into the 2 year roller coaster

the rest of u, well, curse...

[vaibhavthakur]

Since dilip asked for an open discussion these are points from MY point of view.

Originally Posted by hardilip

1)U get an option to mark OBC in the application form......ITS EVERY PERSON FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT THAT HE CAN MARK IT....He dint go to streets asking for this....
he got an option marked it....I am sure most of the Forward caste guys will mark FC if there was an option for FC and say a reservation of 30%.....Common guys grow up..... Its a competetive world and everybody will try to take watever advantage they can take.... And by no means is this illegal......

No one opposes reservation if it is given for right reasons. No one questions reservation given to Handicap,Jammu Kashmir migrants or female quota because these reservations are well justified and well accepted. There are cases when person with a quota in scored negative marks in MP PET (engineering entrance in MP) and still managed to get a seat !!
Scenerio no 2: few years back for a competitive exam in Rajasthan the exam topper didn't get college of his choice because of ridiculous reservations given to various categories (including state quota,all india quota, faculty quota etc.). Everyone is free to exercise their right BUT not at the expense of others' rights to be treated equally.
India is a secular country....no caste based quota can be justified. You say that these castes are suppressed. Let me give you some figures:

1. 70% of the Sulabh Shauchalayas(public toilets) in delhi are cleaned by Brahmins.

2. 75% of domestic help and cooks in A.P. are brahmins.
for similar data follow Are Brahmins the Dalits of today?

2)He got an admission offer from IIFT...And then he has every right to resign his job and if they cant honour thier offer...obviously his career is in jeopardy.....And IIFT is very much responsible for it.....IF we being fellow students cant understand his plight then who can.....

I fully agree with dilip on this point. We are against OBC reservation and not OBCs themselves. But I would call this a sad success of this govt. that we are fighting amongst each other.

3)U go on saying the govt is bad(which it is)......but the most stupid thing has been done by the SC by staying the implementation at this point of time.....Even if u take ,the reservation was only 5%-7% this year in all institutes which is a very minimum count...... They should have taken the students plight into consideration and if they cant u can never term this decision as one which is good and the judges dont deserve to be in the apex court......

I read your point this way: Can't they just give some extra seats to OBSs now and then sort out issues later.
Don't you think that the govt. ,which is fighting this case on the basis of Indira Swahny case which was the case of reservation in job way back in 1993; won't take this temprory decision (to give small no of seats)as their major argument as the acceptance of reservation in principle by the apex court. Moreover there were only 3 options in front of supreme court: pass the judgement in favor of govt, in favor of YFE or give a stay order.

Moreover, SC DID NOT ask IIMs to hold back their results. It was HRD my dear friend.

4)And some who say sub standard students coming in due to OBC......do you guys know what is the procedure followed in selecting the canditates...There is a lot of confusions on it still so u cant say whatever comes to your mind and hurt others....Born OBC does not mean they are sub-standard......puys kindly refrain from making these type of comments.....

I will again talk to you in terms of facts and figures. IITs also give reservations.....they also provide one extra year of preparatory course to reserved category students who are not upto the mark. In other words....they try to accomodate as many students as possible but even though 50% of reserved category seats are vacant because of dearth of talent. Even those who are selected 25% of these fail to complete their 4 year B Tech in 6 years and finally leave IITs after 7 years WITHOUT a degree. And these are not my figures....these are according to the survey conducted by IITs itself. And this survey was completely ignored by HRD. Even arjun singh refused to accept these figures in an interview with Karan Thapar. Link: Decision on quota is final: Arjun : Arjun Singh, Devil's Advocate, quota : IBNLive.com : CNN-IBN


I just want to say that talent never selects any caste over others. Those who are "underpriviliged" in economic terms should be given financial aid and 100% of those may belog to OBC or whatever caste. But caste should never be a criterion to give such important seats. i hope i gave my point of view correctly and with proper reasoning.
Comments/counter arguments are welcome.

"Kites rise against, not with the winds"

[soumyajyoti]

Friends Time is a healer you know.
Last year when I was in IIT Kgp, the quota issue first came up. It irritated each and all of us. We would get together in utter frustration , think about leaving this shitty country ( We did not meant the country, we meant the shitty affairs over here).
But ultimately when this year CAT arrived the wounds had all healed by then, and mentally at least I had accepted the quota issue. THe fresh happenings have reopened the wounds.

I don't know when time will heal the wounds once again, but I am sure it would not be healed for ever.
Can any quota guy give me some sound arguement in favour of this practice. Let me give you a few examples.
A guy who was admitted to IIT on the basis of quota ( SC and ST) would not be needed to pay the tuition fees and that included the major chunk of the fees in the IIT. Now take this, I come from a very mediocre family and and had to take loan from the bank to continue my studies in IIT while look at those morons (SCs) ..taking the benefits of this lesser fees. They would keep expensive home theatres in their rooms, other expensive electronic gadgets or zoom around the campus in BIKES. These are the people who get the benefit of quota.

And then If only these persons had done the ultimate thing for which they were there in the IITs, ie study. My friends of other IITs would confirm me, there were hardly any quota guy whose cgpa would be above 7. What should we make out of these??
I personally completed the M.Tech project work of one such moron. That guy would come over to me and beg that otherwise he would not pass. I feel like killing myself now, YES i did something WRONG.
Moreover why should a guy who had been admitted to an IIT through quota should get the same benefits in the admission procedure of an IIM. Isn't he already uplifted from the backward category tag after getting out of IIT and bagging a decent enough job.
I only hope that some day I get to argue on these points with some thick headed politician, and get to know how they explain these things.
My head gets filled with anger frustrations, and I feel sick thinking about what kind of a shitty country we live in.

[subodh_iit]

Originally Posted by soumyajyoti

Moreover why should a guy who had been admitted to an IIT through quota should get the same benefits in the admission procedure of an IIM. Isn't he already uplifted from the backward category tag after getting out of IIT and bagging a decent enough job.

Wholeheartedly agree with your point..

Vaibhav has also raised very pertinent points.

But the thing here is:

1. we are not here arguing in favor of or against Reservation, but only how can the results be on time.

2. The second thing is the plight of Students who have got through OBC cannot be ignored.

Vaibhav remarked their arguments are - "Why can't you give us a few more seats now and then settle the issue later." Well, it is quite like that , but still justifiable.

Simply because, they had planned keeping these seats in mind. Suppose u avail of some Berth in Railways using quota and then that quota is canceled, and u r asked to reapply in some other train after 2-3 days, will it make sense to u. What will be ur argument - "This doesn't apply to me because my seat was already reserved. Why don't u just give me this and then implement it from next train."

I still do not understand, why we fail to account for the human emotions. I mean isn't it logical for them to protest if they are not given what they were promised. Had SC stayed it in Nov. we wud all have been happy. But now, at least it shud not apply to current Admission season. Let it apply to the next one.. (May be if it is deferred, it will be put in the cold bag and then we will be spared the trauma of reservation.)

Another thing is we have to look for feasible solutions. We all know that no matter how much we cry, politicos wud not stop from their silly decisions. So, maybe a PIL from all those who have suffered can help settle the matter rather than fighting over an issue we have no control...

[sahasid]

Originally Posted by subodh_iit

What are u trying to convey? Should only those who live uncomfortably come forward to apply under reservation ?

Well, that is not what i meant, but since you have brought in this question, and this is a public forum, i'll write down what my thoughts are on the issue..
in principle, the reservations are meant for ppl who are living 'uncomfortably' (hope u understand what i mean here). reservations are bad as such u have said. that is very true. volumes can be written abt why they should not be there.. but to no avail.. we have been living with it for the last fifty years and we are going to have to live with more of it from now on. so, no matter how much you and I find them disagreebe, they will be there.
Now, given that, for me, what makes it worse is.. i still can bear to see ppl from really backward situations getting a free ride even if they are not 'meritorious' (i.e don't have good academic credentials).. but it is when the 'comfortable' ppl come in waving a chit of paper vouching their backwardness, that i find the issue hardest to swallow. the issue of excluding the 'creamy layer'.. the fact that it is still an issue is to me like a foot set into an almost closed door.. at least this much has the chance of being set right...
and above all this, talking just about the question u have asked... simply in the manner in which you have asked it precludes the possibility that, someone who is not really backward - socialy or financially - given the option between availing a quota meant for backward classes and the stiff competition in the unreserved category, would go for the second option without exploiting the loopholes and inadequacies of the system... I am also quite pessimistic about ever coming across someone like that in today's real world... even while writing this, i have pangs of incredulity kicking in... still, i choose to believe that it is not something that is beyond the capability of human beings... ppl from my own country have shown levels of intergrity beyond that in the past..
so, purely on principle, in answer to ur question i'll say - yes, only those who live 'uncomfortably' should come forward and apply for the reservations. for the rest, why wait for the government to say that they don't need reservation, that they are not disadvantaged.. can't they see that for themselves? the choice may be a hard hard hard one.. but still possible.

don't take the trouble to argue on this.. i know all the things u can say against this.. it is just a belief, that it is possible.

[piyushs]

Originally Posted by soumyajyoti

Moreover why should a guy who had been admitted to an IIT through quota should get the same benefits in the admission procedure of an IIM. Isn't he already uplifted from the backward category tag after getting out of IIT and bagging a decent enough job.
.

Absolutely... there should be some sort of a quota ticket... u can use it once in your life... and since its a privilege being extended, one should (ideally) make use of it and break away from the situations which have labelled them "backward"...

[anandeinstein]

Throughout my life, I had always wanted to stay in India and strive to make it a better place. When I finished my B.Tech from IIT Bombay, I had easy option to go for further studies in some amazing colleges in US. I decided to stay.
People have been telling me for the last 2 years I have been working that I should write GMAT and do a foreign MBA. I decided not to go for it. I was not prepared to spend 5-6 years of my life outside india (time taken to repay the loan!).
When this quota issue cropped up in first place, it hit me hard. I felt dis-illusioned. I gathered myself. I maintained all positive attitude harping that all is not lost.
Until very recently in the IIM interviews, I used to strongly defend my desire to do something for my country. I think I did well. Because I believed in what i said.
Suddenly I am feeling disillusioned again. Maybe its no big deal, the results will get delayed by a few weeks and in the end everybody would be happy. Its maybe nothing in importance when compared to the quota issues last year. But somehow this has hit me very hard - call it the last nail in the coffin.
If the politicians of our country cant give up there vote bank politics on such simple matters, then god save the country!! General category seats are different from reserved, arent they? So why stop their results? Just because they know that if they allow General Category results, then OBC quota will go into so called "thanda basta" at least for this year. So they deliberately bring us in the line of fire, and therefore the IIMs (who have to take students) and indirectly also the Supreme Court.
Suddenly I dont have any problems in going and settling abroad. Suddenly I can see the point of all my friends who moved to US. Not to say that my point got invalidated, but yeah I see there point too. And I wish them all the best!

[ismbaneeded]

Originally Posted by rajat_nda

I spoke to the Director of IIM'A, Dr Bakul Dholakia through Army channel, at 1130hrs today...He maintained the same status....
"Capt, I am not in a position to comment on this right now. It all depends on the M of HRD. We cannot go against the ruling of the govt".

Thtz it then...hav 2 just wait n watch...

Ciao ppl

.

Well that is some information,. If the director of IIMA does not know about the final date, well then why are we speculating. Reservation or No-reservation is an issue, but the timing takes priority here.
We want the results on time. Any delay means trouble for candidates who have to serve a notice period in their companies.

I am assuming that the IIMs will push /request the govt. to let them declare partial results(say general/ SC/ST candidates) by the end of this week.