[Tumtum]

Neo.

After your post, I felt it is my responsibility to reply to you. This is not a fight that Im picking up not an attack that I am launching, but I feel that certain things have been overlooked before your post was put in this thread. Read this with a calm mind.

Originally Posted by Neo2000

You could just have been the bigger man and let it go too couldnt you? Was it really necessary that you drag this on further??

Any particular reason? If I made a statement, there must have been some reason behind it. Is it not? Nothing would prompt me to just “attack” (as you say) another forum member. I don’t think that I only should be blamed for this!

Is Loafer not supposed to be equally responsible while making random statements? Is he not supposed to be an equally big man?

Originally Posted by Neo2000

If you want to pick a fight with somebody, go do it on a different forum. You are on this site because you are in pursuit of a Master's degree. There is some level of maturity that we expect from you.

I would recommend you to read my previous posts in case you have doubts about my “level of maturity”. Rather than blowing my own trumpet, my posts would give you a better idea. I have contributed a lot to many career discussion threads as my posts would say. I am not here to pick up fights but if someone says something totally mindless, I do have a valid right to get pissed off like many do. When that happens, there are a few fireworks here and there. I don’t think you should read too much into it.

Originally Posted by Neo2000

I dont like giving out bans, more so since this is AIPGM week and everybody's in a cheery mood. However, the next person to attack somebody will be banned.

In the end, you are the MOD and you have your own valid sense of discretion which I fully respect. If you have to go ahead and ban somebody, please go ahead and do that. I will say what is right like I always have done rather than fearing something over which I have no control.

Rest is upto you.

And yes just FYI, by the way, Im not in pursuit of a masters degree.
I already have 2 masters degrees and a professional degree.

Cheers !

[Neo2000]

Tumtum,

If a Mod had already reprimanded the member, did you really need to make the post that you did?? If he's making a mistake, why are you making it worse? Not to mention, he edited his post AND apologised for it. And you still went after him. As an Oldie, this was certainly not expected from you. All you had to do was report the post and let it go after that.

I am not blaming only you for this. social's made a mistake, then edited his post and apologised for it. Apparently he's made peace with the other user also. You have yet to do anything of the sort. If you don't feel you have made a mistake you aren't going to apologise and that's fine. However, you cannot/should not pick on a user after he's tried to make amends. What is the point??

If you are pissed off, walk away. Come back when you are calmer. Taking it out on members is pointless. Its only going to get you banned. Again, fireworks are harmless till they harm someone. Then its a problem.

Lets keep peace on this thread, shall we?

[umeshlives]

I did my b.Com(H) from SRCC,DU awaiting for my results.If sumbody got a job suitable 2 my profile pls free 2 pm me...:nervous:Waiting for responses

[uRmad]

Guys....Chillax.......Am sure everyone expends more keystrokes than necessary in such instances....The debate is not about who needs to be more mature and who needs to be lesser.....Maturity is something that we take as a common denominator for everyone here ! Am sure all of us can be equally respectful of the other's opinion, although you might not agree with the same !

Carry on with the discussion...

Cheers

[jshah29]

Originally Posted by konqueror_vivek

KPOs are ruining talent, I have seen people joining KPOs for money, given they offer far better packages when compared to other front-end jobs. It is painful when you find yourself doing the same stupid thing for whole of the year, the only encouragment, however, is the compensation, which happens once in a month.

I agree with you - however only partially. I work for a captive KPO and hence what I say is all first hand experience.

1st part - KPOS ruining talent - true and false.

I have seen ppl who are very good - MBA toppers from a tier 2 school, CA rankers and one shot CFAs - these are ppl who are extremely knowledgeable. however, they are either career switchers or freshers who do not posses enough work ex to be able to make it front end IBs. some of them come willingly to get feel of the industry and then quit in 1.5-2 years to go ahead with better job profiles in front end in same or related industries (equity research, corp fin etc.) however, i pity these guys when i come to knw of their brilliant prior work ex and are doing menial jobs like pasting charts in powerpoint or hunting data like employees of ABC company in XYZ country's PQR subsidiary - i am NOT exaggerating - it really happens.

now the 2nd scenario - there are the same guys who perform so well that they put 1st and 2nd year analyst at front end to shame in terms of their work. These guys are more often than not switch to much better profile in less than 2 years. if the company does not take care of them (read lateral movements abroad) - they fend better jobs thmeselves...

continuing 2nd scenario - there are 2nd kind of ppl who are plain bachelors without any professional degree or MBA... there was a time when a B.com would not have fetched you a job of 5k per month... today they are earning 25k a month... obviously the work is shit and u have to work round the clock but then the exposure you get is unparalleled... however, they who start wid smaller things and are eventually promoted to do better work... and i m a living example... its difficult for me to go in the market and ask for a wholesome package (plus bonus) if I am not an MBA or CA or CFA... but yesI believe that company pays me for my worth... if a company is paying me X amount, my work fethces the company (or saves the company) of an amount of 2X... my frnds have had international rotations of 6 months and above to places like London, HK and NY - which was unheard earlier... so in these case, it is plain benefit for employees and for the company...

so at one hand if KPOs are ruining talent on other hand they are giving out much needed break for people...

2nd part - money wise

in terms of monetary package i agree the KPO jobs are unmatched as compared to same kind of jobs available in market.. but then its a personal choice of slogging out in abnormal hours v/s doing better work without too much money

[willsurelywin]

rt jhahyaar

we get paid 30k p.m in kpo/IT coz work is hectic and erratic and not many countries people will be re4qady to work like this

but in india there r lakhs of people to do job 15 hrs a day and hence good for thse companies.
But u see na the exploitation in kpo and IT
they give starting at 25-30k but then very less increments as work is clerical and they know if u leave they have 9 more to get work done

lekin chalo unemployment se to aacha hai jabtak gadi chalti yhai chalayo,
sath me kuch aacha course karte raho, work hard and leave rest 2 god

[sony007]

Originally Posted by jshah29

I agree with you - however only partially. I work for a captive KPO and hence what I say is all first hand experience.
..............................

............................

hours v/s doing better work without too much money

that was very well put by jshah..
but hey is the KPO job only for the finance wat abt marketing profiles...??

[Tumtum]

Originally Posted by jshah29

I agree with you - however only partially. I work for a captive KPO and hence what I say is all first hand experience.

1st part - KPOS ruining talent - true and false.

I have seen ppl who are very good - MBA toppers from a tier 2 school, CA rankers and one shot CFAs - these are ppl who are extremely knowledgeable. however, they are either career switchers or freshers who do not posses enough work ex to be able to make it front end IBs. some of them come willingly to get feel of the industry and then quit in 1.5-2 years to go ahead with better job profiles in front end in same or related industries (equity research, corp fin etc.) however, i pity these guys when i come to knw of their brilliant prior work ex and are doing menial jobs like pasting charts in powerpoint or hunting data like employees of ABC company in XYZ country's PQR subsidiary - i am NOT exaggerating - it really happens.

now the 2nd scenario - there are the same guys who perform so well that they put 1st and 2nd year analyst at front end to shame in terms of their work. These guys are more often than not switch to much better profile in less than 2 years. if the company does not take care of them (read lateral movements abroad) - they fend better jobs thmeselves...

continuing 2nd scenario - there are 2nd kind of ppl who are plain bachelors without any professional degree or MBA... there was a time when a B.com would not have fetched you a job of 5k per month... today they are earning 25k a month... obviously the work is shit and u have to work round the clock but then the exposure you get is unparalleled... however, they who start wid smaller things and are eventually promoted to do better work... and i m a living example... its difficult for me to go in the market and ask for a wholesome package (plus bonus) if I am not an MBA or CA or CFA... but yesI believe that company pays me for my worth... if a company is paying me X amount, my work fethces the company (or saves the company) of an amount of 2X... my frnds have had international rotations of 6 months and above to places like London, HK and NY - which was unheard earlier... so in these case, it is plain benefit for employees and for the company...

so at one hand if KPOs are ruining talent on other hand they are giving out much needed break for people...

2nd part - money wise

in terms of monetary package i agree the KPO jobs are unmatched as compared to same kind of jobs available in market.. but then its a personal choice of slogging out in abnormal hours v/s doing better work without too much money

I beg to differ with you on this my friend.

Though KPOs mean good money for some, one must understand that it is the freshers/graduates or people with 1/2 years of work ex that benefit the most from them and though they do give decent exposure, there is just no no no way that you could compare a person from KPO with a person who is working in front-end jobs...this holds especially true for Ibanks and research jobs as I have seen for myself.

Figure this out.....KPOs of all top Ibanks pay 6 LPA as a starting salary for analyst.....go on to 10LPA for 2nd-3rd yr analyst and move to maybe 12 for an Associate but the bonuses are just 30%-60% of fixed pay.

Compared to this, the front-end IB/research profiles get same amount of fixed pay....may be even marginally lesser BUT BUT BUT, the bonuses they get are typically in the 200-300% of their fixed salary WHEN the markets are doing really good like they did last year-----YES 200-300% of their fixed salary !

I know this because I have made this transition and I have seen the wide difference in bonuses and have managed to buy a house just because I was lucky enough to switch to front-end and get fat bonus.

If you have doubts about the statement Im making, then I could point you out to a many of my friends who are in front end jobs at top Ibanks....all have the same story to tell.

Secondly, as far as the exposure goes, KPOs can or will never develop client-facing skills because agree you may or not- they are dignified BACK-OFFICE or BACK-END jobs and are mainly existing because companies want to SAVE COSTS.

Front-End jobs on the other hand are REVENUE GENERATORS and hence the people in front-end jobs get a share of revenues that they generate and hence they are paid so much bonuses.

So whether its in terms of money or in terms of exposures.....in the long run, a person most certainly stands to lose out.

I am telling this not to discourage people but because I have myself been through the grind of working in KPOs and then shifting to greener pastures in a front-end IB job.

Feel free to ask more in case you have doubts.

Regards.

[jshah29]

Originally Posted by Tumtum

I beg to differ with you on this my friend.

hey buddy - no doubt about it... i was never comparing the two...

but my whole point is that for freshers wid 1-2 years work ex, who is gonna give them chance of an interview in frnt office??? unless ur dad knws the MD of the company, chances are bleak that u will be even interviewed... so in that sense, back end is the right place to start...

then its upon person to make the transition himself... i knw so many ppl frm my office who have been in back office for couple of years and directly jumped to 3rd year analyst in big I-banks... so its not that hard.. however, these guys were super brilliant in 1st place and had a career path in mind when they came to back end...

i knw of salaries in front end and i have no doubt that it even touches 300%... but when do these guys that kind of money??? only if u have done your MBA from IIM A, B, C or ISB... and that too u had prior work ex or had been plain lucky... i knw someone who was recruited as 1st yr analyst AFTER IIM C and 2 years work ex prior MBA...

i knw everything what u said abt Saving Costs and Revenue Generators and I can see it here in front of my eyes... so i dont disagree wid you at all..

but what i was trying to prove is that its tought o make it to front end directly and a couple of years in back end, if utilized fruitfully, will only help the person to be successful in long run...

Jaimin

p.s. lackadaisical approach and lack of ambition while in KPO can hurt your career more than you can imagine....

[Tumtum]

Originally Posted by jshah29

hey buddy - no doubt about it... i was never comparing the two...

but my whole point is that for freshers wid 1-2 years work ex, who is gonna give them chance of an interview in frnt office??? unless ur dad knws the MD of the company, chances are bleak that u will be even interviewed... so in that sense, back end is the right place to start...

then its upon person to make the transition himself... i knw so many ppl frm my office who have been in back office for couple of years and directly jumped to 3rd year analyst in big I-banks... so its not that hard.. however, these guys were super brilliant in 1st place and had a career path in mind when they came to back end...

i knw of salaries in front end and i have no doubt that it even touches 300%... but when do these guys that kind of money??? only if u have done your MBA from IIM A, B, C or ISB... and that too u had prior work ex or had been plain lucky... i knw someone who was recruited as 1st yr analyst AFTER IIM C and 2 years work ex prior MBA...

i knw everything what u said abt Saving Costs and Revenue Generators and I can see it here in front of my eyes... so i dont disagree wid you at all..

but what i was trying to prove is that its tought o make it to front end directly and a couple of years in back end, if utilized fruitfully, will only help the person to be successful in long run...

Jaimin

p.s. lackadaisical approach and lack of ambition while in KPO can hurt your career more than you can imagine....

Jaimin.
I do agree to what you say but just tell me one thing. Do you really think that you will be taken in a front end job once you spend 2-3 years in a back-end set up?
Do you know the way the front-office folks look at with disdain on the back-end jobs? If you spend 2-3 yrs in a KPO then it is going to be very tough for you to convince the interviewer that you can get into front end jobs and be competent enough to deliver. Some of my friends who made the transition had to sweat a lot and in the end, they had to face pay cuts to get the better profile in front-end.
Frankly speaking, I was plain lucky that I could get into front-end in the same company without hassle as my stars were bright but I have given interviews where my profile has been perceived in a very negative way. I had a tough time convincing interviewers about my skills.
One major problem that a candidate would face is because of the folks who work in BPOs. In a bid to look superior, many people from BPOs have prepared resumes and tried to project as if they have worked in KPOs and the profiles they have worked in are those of KPOs. Due to this, when interviewers hear that you are from a KPO background, they perceive really unnecessary things about you and this taints their opinion on a candidate. I have experienced this myself and I used to feel really frustrated and vowed never to work in KPO again once I was out.
Now I know many must be interested in knowing how to break into front-end jobs. My advice is pain and simple.
First of all, it may take some time, but forget working in a KPO. Settle for a junior role in a front-end. You will be paid a pittance but if u endure it for 2 years, then you will be valued at a premium and have a thriving career then on.
Secondly, if you are already working in a KPO then start aggressively finding jobs in front-end…this is the toughest part….may God be with you.
If you are working in any Ibank, then you are one of those few lucky rascals…..meet front-office folks and get a deal done to be taken into front-end. This is what I did with dedication and I succeeded.
Feel free to ask for more.
Regards.