[cathound]

apurv,
your article is really touching and appreciable. congrats. but in my opinion, this topic is too good for debating point of view, but if u r looking forward to a solution, then we need to do a grave thinking. the solutions as provided by you are more expected from a 10 year old kid. please dont mind but i am saying so because we all know how cooperative the four mentioned people are. if will be really lucky if u get a chance to talk to them in this regard. generally they are not available at such times. even after they listen to u, they wont help. i am sure u wont like to bet on this. also, even they cant help much in this regard. such children work by their own wish. it gives them their daily bread. any action taken against them will even deprive them of whatever earning they r earning. i guess we need to be more practical when dealing with such issues. speaking in the air can only make u a piolitician, nothing else.

Originally Posted by diva_2005

firstly, congrats apurv for writing such a good article n that too on social issues..

a lot has been said about prevailing child labour in india n lot has also been promised about its eradication.. every other political party makes claims to abolish child labour massively n make educaton availaible to all, atleast at primary level.. but the catch here is not govt.'s policies.. a lot of children are either forced into this thingby there parents sothat they cud earn living for the family.. or the harsh truth is that even sometimes, the children do this delibarately so asto avoid studies.. may sound very absurd but when children are young, they are told by there parents to work n earn, by whatever means.. this way kids even may end up doin things like pick pocketing or stealing..

but here the concern is child labour.. a large proportion of the child labourers are massively abused, physically n mentally, by their parents if they dnt earn enough money or by there employers to give more productivity n yield higher output n profits..

but this is not all..at times the working conditions are also hazardous for the kids.. take the most infamous example of "firecracker factory" or "beedi factories".. it has been a well known fact that these factories employ children largely, n pay them realtively lesser wages, in economic terms not even equal to the marginal revenue product of labour(ideally wages = VMP of labour). this is sheer exploitatation n has also got ill-effects on children's health. they are exposed to harmful chemicals, which leadsto long term health problems ranging about anything..

even if we look around in our society or even in our own household, how many of us have children or teenagers employed as housemaid/servents or delievering milk, newspaper or fruit vendors? or working in dhabas n grossery shops? think about it.... the child labour has became a part of our society.. a perilious n poisonous part, which everybody wants to remove, but again it requires lot of dangers, determination, strong will n at times for the starving families.. pain...
p.S. hope didnt write too badly.. was my first attempt at writing on a social n serious issue..

[Apurv]

Thanks Cathound for the feedback .

From my experience, there are some fundamentally flawed assumptions we make about the police and the administration, made due to the way we are brought up and the media exposure.

It stops people with good intent from taking the very first step in making a difference.

Sustained private efforts and participation have had their success stories, which sadly get little media space in this day and age.

Let's for a moment agree the administration is not worthy of faith. Have you then, every tried calling up an NGO/activist -- which is a private party -- about a child labour instance that you witnessed? If you have, you have done your bit in accordance with your beliefs.

I'd like to hear from you as to which institution apart from activists, police and administration you believe in. If you know of any alternatives, do enlighten us.

And if you have an 'it won't work' attitude towards any kind of solution, this article was not meant for you anyway.

Originally Posted by cathound

apurv,
your article is really touching and appreciable. congrats. but in my opinion, this topic is too good for debating point of view, but if u r looking forward to a solution, then we need to do a grave thinking. the solutions as provided by you are more expected from a 10 year old kid. please dont mind but i am saying so because we all know how cooperative the four mentioned people are. if will be really lucky if u get a chance to talk to them in this regard. generally they are not available at such times. even after they listen to u, they wont help. i am sure u wont like to bet on this. also, even they cant help much in this regard. such children work by their own wish. it gives them their daily bread. any action taken against them will even deprive them of whatever earning they r earning. i guess we need to be more practical when dealing with such issues. speaking in the air can only make u a piolitician, nothing else.

[cathound]

Its not a matter of attitude apurv. Its a matter of approach. I am not saying that the issue raised by u is not a genuine one or we should not do anything for it. my point is that the solutions are not appropriate. speaking of ngo's, i dont think that even u call them frequently. i can understand that u have really researched for this but u should not expect everyone to accept even the crap in it. as for my fundamentally flawed assumptions about police and administration, i can just offer u a smile. dont expect me to justify for fundamental truths. private efforts are worth giving a thought but that is not practical as u will see such kids in every street corner. plus what do u expect the ngos to do? they cannot go against the wish of the kid or his parents. speaking of success stories, can u give a single instance where the ngo's successfully helped for such a cause? think practically, u will understand my point. but u will never get my point if u dont want to.

Originally Posted by Apurv

Thanks Cathound for the feedback .

From my experience, there are some fundamentally flawed assumptions we make about the police and the administration, made due to the way we are brought up and the media exposure.

It stops people with good intent from taking the very first step in making a difference.

Sustained private efforts and participation have had their success stories, which sadly get little media space in this day and age.

Let's for a moment agree the administration is not worthy of faith. Have you then, every tried calling up an NGO/activist -- which is a private party -- about a child labour instance that you witnessed? If you have, you have done your bit in accordance with your beliefs.

I'd like to hear from you as to which institution apart from activists, police and administration you believe in. If you know of any alternatives, do enlighten us.

And if you have an 'it won't work' attitude towards any kind of solution, this article was not meant for you anyway.

[Apurv]

Originally Posted by cathound

Its not a matter of attitude apurv. Its a matter of approach. I am not saying that the issue raised by u is not a genuine one or we should not do anything for it. my point is that the solutions are not appropriate. speaking of ngo's, i dont think that even u call them frequently. i can understand that u have really researched for this but u should not expect everyone to accept even the crap in it. as for my fundamentally flawed assumptions about police and administration, i can just offer u a smile. dont expect me to justify for fundamental truths. private efforts are worth giving a thought but that is not practical as u will see such kids in every street corner. plus what do u expect the ngos to do? they cannot go against the wish of the kid or his parents. speaking of success stories, can u give a single instance where the ngo's successfully helped for such a cause? think practically, u will understand my point. but u will never get my point if u dont want to.

Please do offer me a smile, for it is always good to see one . Thanks for crediting me for the research, on which I have not spent a single second, because for me dealing with the police/administration is an everyday thing. No, I'm not a gigolo .

Anyway, it seems vain to argue with you, for all you are interested in is pointing out problems and flaws and not coming up with a single constructive argument, leave alone a solution. I don't know how many NGOs you have called to report their ineffectiveness with such conviction.

But you've taken pains to put forward your beliefs in this thread, which I appreciate.

A. Your case about 'NGOs not being able to go against the wish of parents and the kids' is known as the 'classic poverty argument' and is a common misconception about the economics of child labour. Rather than waste my time in explaining it here, i'll direct you to this link... http://www.mvfindia.org/faqs.htm#5 where it is explored in detail.

B. You are right in what you say, decades of efforts by child labour NGOs have not resulted in a single instance of a success story. What to do? All they do is eat vada pao, pepsi-cola and sleep. I completely agree with you. Not fair, I mean even Tussar Kapur has given a box office hit, but NGOs?? Not a single success story till now! I mean hello...

Jokes apart, I do agree that some NGOs are fund-usurping hogs. But none of them have hit success ever? Well...

If you are really interested in knowing about 'success stories' work on the ground, with public and/or private participation, I can recommend three things for you...
1. Sitting on your Internet-PC armchair, which I believe is the maximum effort you will ever take to exit your cocoon, you can take a look at the websites of NGOs that the Pagalguy Community Service is working with, namely MVF and Udayan, and you will find your success stories there.

2. Register as a full-time volunteer for 10 days with your city's Childline. Monitor for yourself how many calls you get everyday and how many of them result in some action. Evaluate it yourself. You will be surprised. You'll see that not everybody is like me, who never calls NGO contacts on seeing a child labour evil happen.

3. And if you are really interested, beyond just sitting on your PC and making blanket comments about the world surrounding you, give a call to an activist about some child labour evil that irks you, follow it up for a month.

If you fail, despite trying, do reply to this reporting the failure and we'll have a more informed discussion .

[Mehulsyntel]

i think both of u. apurva and cathound have put some reasonable thoughts on issue. good brain storming ppl.. But the problem is that both of u were on extrme ends of the approaches . apurv being more of an idealistic and cathound being toooooo realistic.. i wud always agree with opinion sof apurv. because though a bit idealistic they r POSITIVE...fficeffice" />>>

But as u both have agreed Ground realities are tough... To make those suggestion work. wont be easy.....But as apurva had suggested . one way to stop sumthing is Discourage it at personal level....But if e want to get more involved one can make a group of like minded ppl and approach suitable NGO.. and dedicate our2-3 hrs in weekend towards this cause. i was thinking about forming such group to work towards Illiteracy eradication....but cudnt make a headstart..but still thinking abt it...>>

>>

>>

Originally Posted by Apurv

Please do offer me a smile, for it is always good to see one . Thanks for crediting me for the research, on which I have not spent a single second, because for me dealing with the police/administration is an everyday thing. No, I'm not a gigolo .

Anyway, it seems vain to argue with you, for all you are interested in is pointing out problems and flaws and not coming up with a single constructive argument, leave alone a solution. I don't know how many NGOs you have called to report their ineffectiveness with such conviction.

But you've taken pains to put forward your beliefs in this thread, which I appreciate.

A. Your case about 'NGOs not being able to go against the wish of parents and the kids' is known as the 'classic poverty argument' and is a common misconception about the economics of child labour. Rather than waste my time in explaining it here, i'll direct you to this link... http://www.mvfindia.org/faqs.htm#5 where it is explored in detail.

B. You are right in what you say, decades of efforts by child labour NGOs have not resulted in a single instance of a success story. What to do? All they do is eat vada pao, pepsi-cola and sleep. I completely agree with you. Not fair, I mean even Tussar Kapur has given a box office hit, but NGOs?? Not a single success story till now! I mean hello...



Jokes apart, I do agree that some NGOs are fund-usurping hogs. But none of them have hit success ever? Well...

If you are really interested in knowing about 'success stories' work on the ground, with public and/or private participation, I can recommend three things for you...
1. Sitting on your Internet-PC armchair, which I believe is the maximum effort you will ever take to exit your cocoon, you can take a look at the websites of NGOs that the Pagalguy Community Service is working with, namely MVF and Udayan, and you will find your success stories there.

2. Register as a full-time volunteer for 10 days with your city's Childline. Monitor for yourself how many calls you get everyday and how many of them result in some action. Evaluate it yourself. You will be surprised. You'll see that not everybody is like me, who never calls NGO contacts on seeing a child labour evil happen.

3. And if you are really interested, beyond just sitting on your PC and making blanket comments about the world surrounding you, give a call to an activist about some child labour evil that irks you, follow it up for a month.

If you fail, despite trying, do reply to this reporting the failure and we'll have a more informed discussion .

[simon]

Originally Posted by Mehulsyntel

But if e want to get more involved one can make a group of like minded ppl and approach suitable NGO.. and dedicate our2-3 hrs in weekend towards this cause. i was thinking about forming such group to work towards Illiteracy eradication....but cudnt make a headstart..but still thinking abt it...

hey mehulsyntel, if you are really gung-ho about your cause, do check out the Touching Lives section here: :smile:

http://www.pagalguy.com/forum/touching-lives/

See if something is happening in your city.....

If yes, join it!
If no, get an initiative going!

[samaksh]

A very good article to read and talks to the core aboyt the problem. After reading i was just thinking that we have not been able to come up with a solution for such a dire straits. The boy had no other alternative then to take up such work in order to support the family. What i say is that the government can form some sort of geverning body or a society where these children can do some work and along with that be able to do some education. These ways even though child labour law problems might come but we can solve the purpose.

These sole earners from their family can so some legal work, will be able to study and will be under the social check for them not to get deviated and follow the same track.

Can i have some thought on this

[estranged_gnrs]

Originally Posted by samaksh

What i say is that the government can form some sort of geverning body or a society where these children can do some work and along with that be able to do some education. These ways even though child labour law problems might come but we can solve the purpose.

Can i have some thought on this

Why the govt?
why dont u ask your friends,make a group,look out in ur locality ,get some kids and start?
It will be great if you can have a group of children,teach them and slowly make them proficient in some legal work so that later they can afford their education as they go to higher standards? Who knows ,it may turn out to be a profitable venture? Think of it as an investment if you are wary about costs of books,teachers etc.
my 25 paisa,
Rohit

[samaksh]

My friend as i mentioned in my earlier post, child labour is a crime. So if me and my friends go teach these kids and also give them some work to support their family then it becomes a crime. For this reason we need the government only to mend its rules and form such organisations to check the condition of these children.

What say you?

-Samaksh

[alhad1686]

you can not always expect govt to solve the problems.govt. may solve the problems for the current child laboures, but once they get help more parents will force there children to child labouring.. this is an endless chain...hence is not a feasible solution.
economic development may be a right step towards solution.. increasing the gdp & not just gnp may help..!