[The Raven]

Nice post, grondmaster. Full agree with you. Though as I have already stated I am not in favour of such traditions, I have some idea how they might have originated and can asnwer your two questions. Of course my answers do not mean I justify such tradition.

Originally Posted by grondmaster

One, whether they are required or not, and

Basically, though people get to hold serious positions in organizations, they are still childish at heart. When people from across batches interact, it is these stupid stuff and the cheap titillation that creates the bond. Alumni are already discussing core business isues at work. When talking with juniors, they want to let down their hair down and have fun. And usually these kind of traditions provide the ideal small talk where one can relate on a non business basis. Of course these traditions could have been something more innocent and need not have the perverse aspect. But the persverse aspect refelects the mind of today's youth. Whatever is in the mind of the youth reflects in the traditions.

Originally Posted by grondmaster

Two, why the secrecy?

Well, obviously if 3 or 4 people share a secret, they feel a kind of bond. Haven't you seen this in children clubs? Doesn't matter if the secret is stupid or inconsequential. Just that the small number of us are co conspirators in something beings us closer. Wearing T-shirts specific to a group, have a lingo specially for the group etc. are part of the effort to develop some kind of a clan feeling. Thats one aspect and the other is the typical Indian attitude similar to the Victorian hypocrisy with respect to topics related to sex. A puritan public posturing but a different story in privacy. Anyone remember's Kushboo incidnet in Tamilnadu?

[dancingdevil]

i am bit late in airing my views here but lemme put my cents here..
i agree that the video is in bad taste... but the reasons being cited in the article like taxpayer's money being utilised in such a manner and harvard example are all pretty much feeble and somewhat prepostorous....let me tell for a fact that harvard and oxford are much beyond us when it comes these things.. they have their own booze parties which are nothing like ours, raunchy magazines and other stuff our b-schools cant even imagine doing...plus we are not paying taxes to make saints out of people.. if u can have bhajji and yuvraj sledging y nt smone from other walks of life..n plz dont tell me that ppl dont abuse when they compete..a nice walk down the park where people play cricket is enough to show how much of energy is spent playin n how much talkin stuff.. i dont endorse it but giving all these examples sounded like a bit utopian...

[kewl.bantee]

come on friends,we r reading 2 much in2 wot's happened?every1 has right to get distinct in their own ways and just cuz the incident came to open-field we r up for the discussion.we must remember that campus cultures dont really change in one night.its directly related to the type of ppl sheltered over there and the hard fact is its just a 2 yr course.so new ppl wil keep pouring in and its a real troublesome task to make the prev culture persistent with time.just retain ur rational thots and all other stuffs with in u and njoi to the max level as long as u r inside the campus but never follow the western style cuz shiv-sena groups r taking a close look.

[Shhhweta]

Originally Posted by Apurv

Update - our views on why we did this story and the larger picture behind it

IIM Calcutta and XLRI Jamshedpur - two premier known business schools in eastern India clash every year for a much-anticipated sports meet. Incidentally, that is also the time when the campus cultures at both these schools stoop to their lowest. Read the rest after you watch the video.

This is a completely gross behaviour...Are we devolving back to being Cavemen??? Just because u have got into a premier institute doesn't mean u forget that u are a Human! yes this is true that such culture and language started when these institutes were male dominated....But the gals are to be fully blamed for "carrying forward" the culture....And it clearly throws a light on what kind "utmost stress on Ethics" these institutes lay on when they are turning a blind eye to such an issue....Such things should come on front page of times to bring these people to their senses!!!!

[sir roy keane]

Originally Posted by Shhhweta

This is a completely gross behaviour...Are we devolving back to being Cavemen??? Just because u have got into a premier institute doesn't mean u forget that u are a Human!

these institutes lay on when they are turning a blind eye to such an issue....Such things should come on front page of times to bring these people to their senses!!!!

would you have said the same thing if the above involved some xyz institute and not IIM or XLRI?

you would have NOT!

agreed , you have the cream studying in these elites , but who are we to decide on what is wrong and what is right?

you are under the impression that since these students are part of the elites , they should conduct themselves in the best possible way.

pls understand this , whether it be harvard / wharton / IIM's , among the majority of those 'sensibles' , there would be those odd morons everywhere. period!

This topic is just a case of 'big boast , small roast'!

The sooner this thread goes out , the better!

[murty001]

Mods,

Please close this thread as of now. I think this issue has been dissected from all sides and all points of view have been posted. And I don't think dragging this thread will do any justice to it either. Lets close this thread for now, and avoid the i-haven't-read-the-entire-thread kind of posts. If anyone has anything valuable to contribute let them PM to the mods or admins and then the future course of action may be decided.

Cheers..

[angryposter]

I just could not help start my posting on this topic - been a viewer for too long.

There's only one word that describes that video - "CHEAP." For all you apologists out there who justify this, you really don't know much about other forms of truly entertaining means that are possible even in inter-school rivalry. Please don't justify such crass behavior.

This is business school, not undergrad where people somehow have license to behave like morons. You are supposed to be *cough* business leaders, and part of that comes with etiquette of behavior. And that means leave childish testosterone driven behavior back in undergrad and learn some dignity. Just to see a bunch of "so called premier" institute students clap and walk into another school's campus calling it with "maa.." swears is appalling, but clearly a lot of you think it's funny, and some think it's a tradition!

Change such ugly traditions and come up with something innovative and funny. Having gaali competitions is passe, it should have ended years ago. And for those of you who will counter with "get off your high horse", get a hold of yourself - we never, and I mean NEVER stooped to such crassness in my school and a few others I encountered. I'm not talking about some small groups doing dumb things, I'm talking about institutionalized behavior - and this is one. It's shameful.

Just as a sample - there are funny ways to treat competitors - like pranks, play jokes on them, come up with funny rhymes the whole class sings, make posters, create mini-movies, and so on. The basic tenet of such behavior is that it CANNOT be done in secrecy. If it's shrouded in secrecy (unless it is an entertaining proposition an entire class knows but no one else does), then something is wrong with it.

And why is it wrong for PG to report this? At least this way there's some light on this and maybe it will stop others from "emulating" such "cream of the cream" behavior.

[Shhhweta]

would you have said the same thing if the above involved some xyz institute and not IIM or XLRI?

you would have NOT!

agreed , you have the cream studying in these elites , but who are we to decide on what is wrong and what is right?

you are under the impression that since these students are part of the elites , they should conduct themselves in the best possible way.

pls understand this , whether it be harvard / wharton / IIM's , among the majority of those 'sensibles' , there would be those odd morons everywhere. period!

This topic is just a case of 'big boast , small roast'!

The sooner this thread goes out , the better!



Well I have a right to my opinion...And no amount of groans can justify what I've said...And please think twice before you speak of Wharton/Havard/Stanford....I have personally interacted with all these B-schoolers and they are not even remotely close to their Indian counterpart...They are all atleast 28 years old...Are already Managers with extremely good profiles and are so humble that they could give anyone else a run for their money.... And since this topic has come up...let me share this view with all....Whenever a topic of ethics comes....We pass on the Blame to westeners saying they are even worse than us and tend to justify our behaviour.... I have friends from abroad and after some time they have confided in me that they are truly shocked to see me so polished???!!!! Its a fact known to very few in India that we have a very bad reputation out in the world when it comes to politeness and Dignified behavior... And the side tilting towards justifying this crass behavior clearly shows that we don't feel even a bit of shame in this.... Even considering all their late night parties, fancy mags has not polluted wests' minds that they would supporte some gang openly abusing ones Mother....

And buddy we are the ones to decide which government comes next...we are the ones who decide realms of socially accepted behavior....we are the ones to decide the future of the country coz we are the future....Its just about showing your concern towards the world around you to make it a better place...

And Why is it that any criticism of this episode is taken personally?
Why are people just not ready to accept that this behavior is not expected of any person be it from B-School or not?
Why are we blindly pointing fingers at others and accusing of Hypocrism?


Its time we do some introspection, the answers aren't so difficult to find.......

[akitrav]

On a related note.....
How abuse is institutionalised at the IIMX...and we have a centre for human values & ethics there!
See the link.
http://www.pagalguy.com/forum/660247-post1.html

[zain imfy]

A b-school is a b-school, be it an IIM or any-a-z bschool. Sledging to some extent is fine as it increases the competition level and intensity of a "clash" between 2 or more colleges. The basic point is that we should not ABUSE each other. You may hoot the other team, you can cheer only your team,etc but abusing them like this is sick. It just shows how frustrated some of the students studying in these institutions are!!!! (btw all of us do not abuse) And i use the term frustrated because no normal person would "let his/her hair down" in such a pathetic manner. What is the need of abusing your guest! Isn't our logo "Atithi Devo Bhava"....India is famous for its hospitality and when we can't live without abusing our counterparts from different colleges, how can we behave properly with tourists????

I believe that many of you believe that this kind off rash and unruly behaviour is ok and in no way bad because the students have to relax and chill once in a while. I ask you: You relax and enjoy yourself by using the choicest of expletives against your opponents??

I was expecting to see many people raise their voice against this post because it points a finger towards them and since all of them( "lets have some fun by abusing someone" people) think they are the most civilised form of earthlings on this planet, they are bound to say that this thread is useless and that its a custom and they will follow it and thee is no harm as they behave very nicely outside the campus. The bottom line is that the way you behave inside your campus, the way you abuse your competitors, shows what you really are. During these situations, a persons true character is revealed(because outside you behave like you're the most gentle being on this planet and will strongly stand against rowdy behaviour and other social issues in debates, discussions,etc). I do not say that everyone has a sick mind, but there are a few people who propagate such unethical behaviours as tradition and custom and leave no stone unturned to maintain this culture and student who look up to their seniors immediately follow them as according to them, this is the tradition of THAT college and THEY have to follow it and they believe(or are made to) that it is correct!!

The kind off words used in this video do not shock me as of late i have become accustomed to this kind of stuff. Girls are really leaving no stone unturned to match the low levels of some of the guys. CONGRATS.

And this video also, to some extent, showcases how our society is changing. Bitching has become a fad among girls. And boys are not far behind--Inspiration comes from our very own MTV--(I loved this channel and now i loathe it) and ofcourse, as someone said, do not compare it with Harvard's,etc as they have their own booze parties and all---My reply to you-- Don't worry mate, wait for a few more years and you'll be part of one such party soon--After all...what the harvardians do must be the best thing in the world!!!--- lol

The problem with most of us is that hypocrisy rules the roost! We do not ant to copy the west--so we modify it a bit--add something indian to it--and voila..the indianised version of that habit is here!!!



__________________________________________________ ___________
I suggest that we stop behaving like illiterate people and conduct ourselves like proper manner. You have to sledge, sledge in a manner which is the least vulgar. It doesnt make a difference if its a girl or a guy. There are better ways to have fun and let down your hair. Do not copy the bad points from foreign B schools. you'll be able to make a mark for yourself not by copying someone blatantly, but by copying the good points and erasing the bad ones and setting an example for others to follow.

I dont have much more time...

Regards

Zain