[freestyle]

By the way, there are two different issues here. Let's not mix them up:

1. People behaved in a particularly crass, crude manner that many arent okay with. Some think it's tradition, some that it's tasteless.
2. PG posts details of the same on its homepage. People think this is 'sensationalism'.

Can we look at these two issues separately, please?

Arent we shooting the messenger when we talk about supposed 'sensationalism'? We're worried about who raises the issue instead of the problem itself, which, IMO, is missing the point altogether.

[The Raven]

It is always very interesting to discuss reforms dealing with others. It is much more fun blaming corrupt politicians and reservation policies and things like that. But it becomes very unpleasent dealing with the need to reform onself. So though initially, it seemed to me that PG was trying to sensationalize issues, I am now inclined to beleive they have taken a bold step by taking up an issue that is going to make them very unpopular among their core user base - the MBA aspirant, students and alumni. Like smoking and drinking, swearing has become a cool thing among youth world over. This is something we need to introspect upon and ask ourselves whether these things are as cool as they seem. But somehow the discussion seems to heading in the direction of IIM/XL-ers versus others. This is not an issue of IIM or XL. It is an issue of today's youth culture. Whereas no one has right to be judgemental about other' choices, it is desirable to have a healthy debate. Some people take a conscious choice to smoke, drink, swear or indulge in certain kinds of sexual behaviour. But most people are fence sitters. They do things not because that is what they want to do but just because it is the cool thing to do. And the people who stand up against these cool practices are out cast aside as uncool people. So it is necessary that someone speaks about this issue so that the fence sitters know that it is Ok to have a different
opinion on this as well. Everyone should have have an option of doing something they really want to do and not by social pressure to be 'cool'.

So to summarize, I think if an individual swears, it is his or her independent choice as long as it is not againt the law of the land or he is not intentionally hurting the sentiments of someone, it is his own business and no one has the right to talk about it or pass judgement. But if it is an issue of people taking to swearing and other such practices just because of peer pressure, it must be addressed and a popular youth forum like Pagalguy is the best place to address it. So in the hindsight I give credit to PG forum for taking up the issue.

[Aarav]

Originally Posted by The Raven

So though initially, it seemed to me that PG was trying to sensationalize issues, I am now inclined to beleive they have taken a bold step by taking up an issue that is going to make them very unpopular among their core user base - the MBA aspirant, students and alumni. Like smoking and drinking, swearing has become a cool thing among youth world over. This is something we need to introspect upon and ask ourselves whether these things are as cool as they seem. But somehow the discussion seems to heading in the direction of IIM/XL-ers versus others. This is not an issue of IIM or XL. It is an issue of today's youth culture. Whereas no one has right to be judgemental about other' choices, it is desirable to have a healthy debate. Some people take a conscious choice to smoke, drink, swear or indulge in certain kinds of sexual behaviour. But most people are fence sitters. They do things not because that is what they want to do but just because it is the cool thing to do. And the people who stand up against these cool practices are out cast aside as uncool people.

That's correct, a healthy debate follows when you are trying to address a larger issue in hand (if at all it exists at 1st place). The article gave a picture of being too specific and words like "Tax-payer's money being wasted" didn't help matters.

The discussion on the Free-will of individuals, and what is deemed not right by few section of people in the society is a age long. A theory in Ethics says "Any action as long as you are not hurting anyone else with, can not be construed wrong". So, if you smoke or drink as long as you don't get nasty and churlish with others is very much acceptable (to people like me at least).

I think if the degree of coolness (what ever this term means) is to be restricted then we can have no end to this. There are some very reputed institutions that don't really think highly on the kind of active life we live in this world, people have even be forced (brain washed) to leave their home/children and live life of an ascetic. For them even the normal 9 to 6 job is not very cool. Where and how do you draw the line now? See, this is a very tricky issue and that's why I felt the article could have been better with its choice of words.

[soumya1]

These things do happen but behind the scenes.....Only difference here is that it has been made public....Friendly banter n all do exist..but if one sees the video....ya..it sends down some jitters......
The mouthing of abuses is very well seen in the cricket field...the recent Indo-Aussie series is..a prfect example...
Ya its ok...but these sort of videos....depict the trend towards wich our indian culture is moving into....Im not saying this cos girls r dere....its equal fr boys also...Everything is ok....But till it doesnt cross the threshold...or saturation...
Such things happen..i know..but still shd be condemned and curbed atherwise it sends wrong signals not about institutes(Which is secondary) but totally degrades Indianism wich is unique in the entire world..for its purity n all......

Hmm...Slowly these things are incresing...it needs to be looked fter n controlled.....
In my final yearof Engg i went to spring fest of an iit
I was really surprised to see girls smoking with boys...taking drugs.......Ya iv seen it.and all boys n girls talking...with slangs....with discussions on sex,watever..watever...i dnt wnt to say.....Time was 12 at nite or so....Ya n that too just beside the main road or pathway of the campus...
This doesnt meen that everyone in the insti r like dat...
But a singe drop of poison....poisons an entire vessel of Honey they say....

THAT INDEED NEEDS TO BE LOOKED FTER.....

[shrikanthk]

post deleted

[tatimatla]

Originally Posted by The Raven

So to summarize, I think if an individual swears, it is his or her independent choice as long as it is not againt the law of the land or he is not intentionally hurting the sentiments of someone, it is his own business and no one has the right to talk about it or pass judgement. But if it is an issue of people taking to swearing and other such practices just because of peer pressure, it must be addressed and a popular youth forum like Pagalguy is the best place to address it. So in the hindsight I give credit to PG forum for taking up the issue.

To this, I totally agree! Swearing under peer pressure is an issue that needs to be taken very seriously by the junta.

However, I can't agree on the manner in which this issue has been presented in this article. The problem lies with the mood of the girls in the video - they clearly were having a ball of a time! In no way does the video give us the impression that these girls were under duress. The evidence lacks relevance. Using this video to bring forth an important issue is unacceptable.

Unacceptable...why?
One very important issue, which I'm sure hasn't been given a passing thought, is the future of the girls in the video. No doubt, immaculate care has been taken to blur the video. But, here's a fact: an unedited version has been doing rounds in the grapevine for over 4 months. PG has happily overlooked the possibility of an exponential increase in the circulation of the grapevine version - a definite fallout of this article.
What if the video falls into the wrong hands?
(The definition of "wrong hands" covers the entire gamut of people related to these girls, professionally and personally.)
Who's responsible for the future of these girls?
These girls, who are supposedly the victims of peer pressure, might end up being victimized (again?), thanks to PG.

Uploading the video is a thoughtless act. I do hope some action is taken in this regard.

[anupam will return]

Originally Posted by DJK

Oh.. I beg your pardon. I perceived, rather absurdly it appears, that describing sexual fantasies with "Top three women", like they are porn stars, explicitly would amount to being a crime. Obviously I didn't take the desensitization classes at B-schools which allows you to better appreciate such refined and cultured forms of being acquainted with another or celebrating your birthday. Oh wait, did your professors give you implied consent? Then it must be all okay. Geez, what was I thinking...

Honestly Anupam, if you can please take off these rose tinted lenses you wear with which everything is "acceptable" in the name of fun, you'll probably see what's wrong with what you are saying. Of course no one is "forced". But think of the outcome. The ones who choose to not participate become social outcastes or not cool enough. Everyone wants to fit in and stand out all at once. The result? A bunch of twits who have no idea where to draw the line between class and crass.

Ok, let me take off these rose tinted lenses and I'll try and explain what I saw at my B school.

Let me take you all 2 years back in time, the first week when I entered my B school. I never thought an IIM would have a culture which includes describing fantasies and swearing itch words. I thought that was way too immature a thing to do at this level. These things can be expected in an engineering institution but in a B school with 70% of the batch having prior work-ex? Doesn't make sense!

During the initial days, I was asked (not forced!) to join the cultural brigade of swearing n all, but not coming from such a orientation, I didn't participate. Please note, I was never treated as an outcast for this, the students found it perfectly acceptable for people who didn't find such stuff comfortable to be not included.

I found out that some people in a B school enjoyed discussing such stuff as that was something that made them gel really well, such discussions acted as the perfect ice breakers/stress busters in an extremely competitive environment and ofcourse no one took any of it seriously. But that didn't stop me from wondering "isn't it still way too immature, an act well left to an engineering environment?"

Over the next 1.5 years, I saw a lot of people indulging in almost anything and everything: Be it an aftermath of a drunken party or the furious swearing demonstrated by students in an inter-block event. Everyday, I used to think: B schooling sucks! Why do people have to do such and such to achieve such and such? When will people ever become mature?
Sixth term is when most B schoolers use some of their time introspecting on what did they take away from the place ...Everyday, I used to think "what is it exactly that I took away from this B school?" "what is that will remain with me when I leave my school and enter a more competitive environment?"

And one fine day, the not so obvious suddenly became so obvious.
Let me explain it this way: All this time, I was being part of a "great movie": seeing this n that, going through mental levels of depressions, peer pressure, swearing and what all...
For a moment, I took myself out of this "movie" and I tried to see the movie just as an external viewer... everything became crystal clear to me in seconds

To quote my thoughts "You will find things in a B school which you will never accept, things which you will die for. So many different types of people in a B school, people who indulge themselves in all sorts of activities: good and bad, raw and ripe. And you are forced to stay with such people, work with them, network with them, establish relationships with them. Isn't this going to continue the moment you step in the real-work environment? Ofcourse, it is going to! A B school is a perfect 'pilot arena' of what you expect in a hungry competitive world. And this entire 2 years was like an implicit drill which showed you everything that you'll be expecting sooner or later. It is this 2 years which gave you the perfect playing ground for learning as much as you could, in as many different environments as you can imagine!"

Summarising, if a B school has people who indulge in swearing/describing fantasies, so be it! you cannot stop such a custom, as, it is and always will continue to be done in good spirits...However you always have the power to choose what works for you and what doesn't, isn't it?

Concluding remark: if multiple attempts at CAT makes you mentally stronger, seeing such stuff in B schools and learning to live in a difficult environment only makes you mentally more mature - now that's more than a mere takeaway!

P.s.:
For those who thought corporate environments are clean and saintly Am sure we can have an entire thread dedicated on what "actually happens in a cut throat competitive corporate world and what all people do to meet their ends".

-awr

[shrikanthk]

Originally Posted by The Raven

Like smoking and drinking, swearing has become a cool thing among youth world over. This is something we need to introspect upon and ask ourselves whether these things are as cool as they seem. But somehow the discussion seems to heading in the direction of IIM/XL-ers versus others. This is not an issue of IIM or XL. It is an issue of today's youth culture. Whereas no one has right to be judgemental about other' choices, it is desirable to have a healthy debate. Some people take a conscious choice to smoke, drink, swear or indulge in certain kinds of sexual behaviour. But most people are fence sitters. They do things not because that is what they want to do but just because it is the cool thing to do. And the people who stand up against these cool practices are out cast aside as uncool people. So it is necessary that someone speaks about this issue so that the fence sitters know that it is Ok to have a different
opinion on this as well. Everyone should have have an option of doing something they really want to do and not by social pressure to be 'cool'.

Well said. I still think PG crossed the line by uploading the video. Also, the thread title is obnoxious. The idea of linking the culture of "Tasteless swearing" with Indian management schools on the basis of an arbit 10 second video is indeed "tasteless".

However, a debate on youth culture is very much in order. I'm often annoyed by the indiscriminate use of the libertarian principle - "to each his own" to glorify the most vulgar indulgences and hedonistic tendencies.

[The Raven]

Originally Posted by Aarav

I think if the degree of coolness (what ever this term means) is to be restricted then we can have no end to this. There are some very reputed institutions that don't really think highly on the kind of active life we live in this world, people have even be forced (brain washed) to leave their home/children and live life of an ascetic. For them even the normal 9 to 6 job is not very cool. Where and how do you draw the line now? See, this is a very tricky issue and that's why I felt the article could have been better with its choice of words.

Fully agree. Even I feel the article should have focussed on the issue than on the institute. And even I don't think regulations can help to address this issue. It can only make things worse. As I mentioned if this video had been from IIM-A, the sports fest would have been stooped from this year. Th stuff that Pendayal was mentioing are extreme cases pravelent in very few dorms, not across IIM-A, though milder versions exist. Last year it came to the notice of the authorities and they are trying to clamp down upon this by suggesting things such as rotating students to other dorms to break dorm culture. But I don't think that is the way to go about this as regulations always lead to loss of personal freedom. The right solution is to get the message across to youth that it is nothing cool about smoking, drinking, swearing etc. They are conscious life style choices to be made. Like Anupam has posted how he stayed away from such things, youth should be made aware that they can do so. This kind of discussion helps in creating that awareness. Of course one can argue won't people have that maturity. No. They don't. Most people follow herd.

[andy_jaan]

Originally Posted by shrikanthk

Well said. I still think PG crossed the line by uploading the video. Also, the thread title is obnoxious. The idea of linking the culture of "Tasteless swearing" with Indian management schools on the basis of an arbit 30 second video is indeed "tasteless".

.............

30 Seconds video And what we rest got is just 10 secs to analyze :huh:
I request admin to kindly replace present 10 sec video by the original 30 sec one and re-start the thread with everyone being at same platform. Points scored till now should not counted for final results Gundagardi nahin chalegi....verna IIM eshtyle mein dhrna pradarshan hoga :new_ukliam2::new_ukliam2: