[sukritmunjal]

This thread has moved to a completely different tangent from what it originally started out. Apurv just askd to post everyone's opinion on the video, amd now we have people attacking each other and taking other's comments and opinions personally.

This topic has now reached a point where no constructive discussions are possible as many people are bitter that someone else has quoted his post and posted a counter-argument.

The longer we stretch this topic the messier things are going to get. Although many people are convinced that the contents of the video are crass, a lot of them agree that PG should have not uploaded the video.

I guess its a matter of personal choice whether one swears or not or has no problem in hearing a woman swear. So i won't comment on that, but one thing that i don't agree with swearing in guise of tradition.

As far as teaching is concerned, a teacher cannot teach unless he/she has a student who is willing to learn. So the onus lies on the freshers to say NO, if she is being forced to shout expletives at the top of her voice in name of tradition.

As i said earlier we can keep discussing this topic till same time this year and what will we get out of it, nothing except animosity among PG fraternity.

So my request to mods, administrators and everyone. Close this thread and bring an end to this controversy. Stop anymore discussions on this topic.

Since many people have expressed displeasure over the fact that PG has uploded the video on the homepage, i request the administrators to start a poll whether the video should be removed or not and take a decision based on the result of the poll.

And one more request to people in B-school, if something crass and cheap happens in your college in the name of tradition, take it up with authorities in your college before posting it on a public forum. It could have serious repurcussions for you and your college.

Cheers
Sukrit

[anurag12singh]

@DPrit

I think you are missing the point here. Nobody questions the intentions of sledgers. No body here means to say that they were actually talking about relatives of XL students. We all, or nearly all of us have been through some sort of college education. And nearly all colleges have these abuses and slang as part and parcel of their folklore. Its not some B School priviledged stuff, you know.

The point which is being made is - Wouldn't XL or IIMC or any XYZ college be better off without these so called traditions. If you feel that these 'traditions' as some of us here are putting it are more vital and necessary for the institutes than maintaining some limits of decency, at least in public, then I would understand that we have a difference in opinion about the role of management institutes and their take-aways.

Otherwise, I would understand that you acknowledge that there are some issues which should be and can be fixed but you would not like to bring them out in the open.

[lehmanbrothershereicome]

Originally Posted by DPrit

Actually I am surprise to see PG not raising some hot air with the lyrics of official band of XLRI, Bodhi Tree's songs.... ? you know if you have the sense of humour and look at the reality of things through hazed glass of envy, animosity and pre-judices you will see what a brilliant lyrics it was, talking about simple truth and reality of life through banal languages.......how you interpret when someone using so called abusives against you is the most important.. at times... you can be mentally very tormented and abused just by someone refering to your caste in a very polite and sophisticated manners..... again at times you feel a great sense of brotherhood when someone calls you by some slangs.....

ah I did not know that calling someone by a swear word gave a sense of of brotherhood.....guess we should try that at integrating India against all these diversities

as for shurtz am very disappointed in the way you reacted....does it not make you feel disgusted that the batchmates you sit with in a classroom are thinking of doing unimaginable things to you and another group of 15 to 16 ppl know about it? It probably is not a so called tradition in your school but as someone said something or the other of a similar fashion happens across all schools.....And the entire point of this exercise was to highlight the so called blind traditions that get followed not a male vs female debate.

no one is saying that the entire experience is rotten .... but there are parts of it which need correction ... ... why deny facts when they stare at you in the face? why this dual face?

i expected all passed out b schoolers to have some spine but i think it is expecting too much in the traditional world!!!!

p.s. all personal disclaimers apply.....

[DJK]

Originally Posted by Derrida

Not everything that's need to be covered up is wrong. Sometimes things are irrelevant/inappropriate for others to know. Do you want examples?

Corruption, sexual harassment, ragging??? Err...don't throw words around just for the sake of it. Pure political bhashan full of global keywords :huh:

Hypocrisy ..Plumber was banned for using an expletive in a purely innocuous/cheesy manner, and here we are having a thread dedicated to a video full of expletives under the cosy shade of context. People ask for feedback/views and when receiving rather direct ones, hide for cover and accuse others of hypocrisy and what not.

Why can't we stop this thread, remove the vid and open a new thread to discuss all these deep routed vices in the Indian society/college/tapri etc?

Yes please. I am infinitely curious to know what these magical things are that are inappropriate to be shared. I thought it'd be things of personal nature, like a family problem or a debilitating illness. But hey, feel free to add to the list. Err.. "global keywords"? Whiskey Tango foxtrot!!! I didn't know there was such a family of words nor that ragging, graft and sexual harassment fell in those categories. Climate change? Sure. Genocide? Of course. But ragging? Wow. I am stumped. You obviously want to make this a Mods-did-this-so-how-can-you-decry-that issue. If that is the best defense you got to glorify the things we have heard today, maybe I should refresh your memory. Let's see :

1) Students trained to use a barrage of expletives in the name of strategy to intimidate competitors.
2)Male student stripped to underpants and made to wade through female students
3)Hearty narration of sexual fantasies involving birthday boy and "top 3" female classmates.

This is all so much fun. I can't wait to go to a B-school and be objectified. :sarcasm:

[KIMSTER]

Yes...the whole thing is shocking....not the fact that a few pepl in one of the top b-schools in the country were caught in a tape swearing...but cus of the fact tat this video is actually posted in PG...easily the biggest forum of discussion for MBA aspirants in d country..does PG need to eak out mileage from tis video... Like pepl said tis has been goin on for years but ther is no evidence tat d pepl passing out frm these meccas of education have a bad charachter or nethn...so lets stop being so judgemental...chances r we mite not be so different,if put in a similar situation....

But neways good to see an active PG after a real long time,even at tis time we have a gud number of pepl online ... and at the same time so many outlooks and management xamples ...

[anurag12singh]

Originally Posted by sukritmunjal

This topic has now reached a point where no constructive discussions are possible as many people are bitter that someone else has quoted his post and posted a counter-argument.

The longer we stretch this topic the messier things are going to get. Although many people are convinced that the contents of the video are crass, a lot of them agree that PG should have not uploaded the video.

but one thing that i don't agree with swearing in guise of tradition.

As far as teaching is concerned, a teacher cannot teach unless he/she has a student who is willing to learn. So the onus lies on the freshers to say NO, if she is being forced to shout expletives at the top of her voice in name of tradition.

So my request to mods, administrators and everyone. Close this thread and bring an end to this controversy. Stop anymore discussions on this topic.

Since many people have expressed displeasure over the fact that PG has uploded the video on the homepage, i request the administrators to start a poll whether the video should be removed or not and take a decision based on the result of the poll.

And one more request to people in B-school, if something crass and cheap happens in your college in the name of tradition, take it up with authorities in your college before posting it on a public forum. It could have serious repurcussions for you and your college.

Cheers
Sukrit

A sane voice in an in(z/s)ane forum.

I think the video should be removed immediately as it has not served its purpose and instead succeeded only in creating a furore. Any way the discussion has generated more heat than light. I second sukritmunjal's recommendation

[DJK]

Originally Posted by shrutz

BUT, what I do know is this... some of the incidents described have been exaggerated/blown out of proportion. Come on, guys, let's take some perspective, OK?

You are discussing respect to women? So discussing women behind their backs is being disrespectful? Watching porn is disrespectful? Fine. Cut all this out when you are in undergrad. When the women learn that they are being viewed as objects... when they are so helpless they can't fight back.

I am sorry, but did you just compare porn to discussing women sexually behind their backs. That is an absurd comparison don't you think? Porn is an industry, where women who get into it, know what's in it for them. The incident pendyal described involved male classmates you share your knowledge resources with and interact with on a daily basis describing women like you sexually. Are you not seeing what's wrong with that?

Originally Posted by shrutz

In a Bschool, you can at least fight. You do not feel helpless. And if you didn't, you missed the first lesson you needed to learn. Knowing when to dissent. We are not cookie cutter shapes.

If dissent were truly an option, I wonder why it eludes so many people. Why do so many people choose not to dissent? Could it be because there are repercussions? Could it be because they might be snubbed?

Originally Posted by shrutz

But, while you are at it, get perspective. Stories are all very well, but sometimes (just sometimes) please ask credible sources too.

Unfortunately, by personal experience, I do know for a fact that such "reliable" sources are hard to come by, when one is overcome by feelings of loyalty to one's institute. In 2006, I contacted a close friend at an IIM when a hazing incident popped up. The incident has been described in an earlier post by Apurv. As it turned out, that incident did happen. But this source declined to confirm that it did. This source was also involved in the post-incident PR exercise. So let's not get started on sources shall we? In rare moments of bravery, some do step up in cloaks of anonymity and blow the whistle. But such incidences are rare.

[gvg]

Originally Posted by anurag12singh

Don't be so judgmental.. Nine times out of ten, a student asked to do that would indeed do that. It takes a lot of guts to say NO. What is worrying though is the lack of acknowledgment, even in hindsight, of the fact that something is wrong. Frankly speaking, I don't think any selection process can reveal a person's character. And the fact that these girls were 'sledging', doesn't make their character bad. I think it would do no justice to anyone if we brand the girls who were seen on camera. They are no different from you or me. Indeed, when I come to think of it, I wouldn't have said NO had I been in their position. But later, I would have come to regret the decision which I had taken. I wouldn't be looking to hide behind phoney excuses.

Believe me it does not take a lot of guts to refuse something which you know is not correct. And I am not referring to just the juniors it is also the seniors who do not have any pressure on themselves to actually continue a tradition as disgusting as this. The video almost shows them enjoying themselves. All B schools have a lot of traditions which they follow and some of them are not entirely over board but to actually abuse students of another college who have come as guests to your B school just shows the unbelievably low levels the students of the college have stooped to. Secondly character is a very generic term and when I was talking about character I was referring to certain principles of social behavior which any person of some social standing adheres to. I cant believe people are actually justifying the actions of the people involved, both juniors and seniors under the pretext of pressure from seniors and tradition.

[KIMSTER]

Originally Posted by anurag12singh

A sane voice in an in(z/s)ane forum.

I think the video should be removed immediately as it has not served its purpose and instead succeeded only in creating a furore. Any way the discussion has generated more heat than light. I second sukritmunjal's recommendation

Totally agree...i hope the video is removed soon.... and the wordings "A search of Youtube.com reveals more examples of the..... " is an open invitation for ne1 to check out the uncensored video[if i am defeating my own purpose by highlighting that, then i am ready to edit tis scrap]...the hits wud surely have gone up...the discussion can also carry on without the video posted here....

[shrutz]

Originally Posted by DJK

I am sorry, but did you just compare porn to discussing women sexually behind their backs. That is an absurd comparison don't you think? Porn is an industry, where women who get into it, know what's in it for them. The incident pendyal described involved male classmates you share your knowledge resources with and interact with on a daily basis describing women like you sexually. Are you not seeing what's wrong with that?

Deej, I do see what is wrong with that. I am NOT absolving them of any blame... Of course they are to blame. But please understand this objectivism starts from an erly age. I have seen it, and I have commented upon it many times... the thing is, it's NOT a BSchool thing... it's a typical male thing. I cannot and will not excuse it, but I will not say this is a tradition either. It is not.
To me, porn is an outward manifestation of the same phenomenon.

If dissent were truly an option, I wonder why it eludes so many people. Why do so many people choose not to dissent? Could it be because there are repercussions? Could it be because they might be snubbed?

Unfortunately, by personal experience, I do know for a fact that such "reliable" sources are hard to come by, when one is overcome by feelings of loyalty to one's institute. In 2006, I contacted a close friend at an IIM when a hazing incident popped up. The incident has been described in an earlier post by Apurv. As it turned out, that incident did happen. But this source declined to confirm that it did. This source was also involved in the post-incident PR exercise. So let's not get started on sources shall we? In rare moments of bravery, some do step up in cloaks of anonymity and blow the whistle. But such incidences are rare.

Let's not get started on that discussion, shall we? From whatever Apurv said, I get the feeling the mails sent were anonymous, and whatever clarifications needed to be done weren't done with proper communication on both sides... By the time the communication could be done, it was too late. In this case, by around 2 years.

But seriously, how have you been doing? It's been sooooo long.