"Trust in capability of disabled is missing in India"

[ultra lord]

At the age of 15, Ashish Goyal lost his vision but did not lose hope and courage. In a freewheeling interview with PaGaLGuY.com, this MBA student from The Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania and an alumnus of NMIMS reveals more about his MBA journey, the traumatic years of coping with his visual difficulties and him being a role model.




Initially when you came to know that you were losing your vision how did you feel? How did your family support you to cope with this trauma?

I believe my parents knew about the fact that I might lose my vision when I was just 12 or so. I think that they were shocked, in disbelief and obviously in denial of what could have been. I started losing night vision and then day vision from the age of 14 and at the first instance thought that it was more because of my not observing things properly rather than my eyesight. It dawned on me more and more as I started losing vision gradually. As a teenager with tons of aspirations in mind, it was quite frustrating, challenging, disappointing as well as scary. My family too was unable to help me in anyways, even though they wanted to and there was a sense of helplessness. But the key was that they did not let that trickle down to me- in fact they kept the environment very positive and helped me come through the tough situation.

I lost my vision over a period of five years or so and believe me – it was a slow and lonely five-year period. I just could not fathom what was going wrong and WHY ME was the question I would ask. I so wanted to continue learning and playing tennis, to drive my car, to study well and wanted to do everything that a 15 to 18 year old boy would want to do. But I could not and the worst was when I stopped making friends, as no one would understand me.

At one stage I wanted to give up, I had no confidence and wanted to let go of everything. I wanted to be secluded as I thought I would never be capable of doing anything. I had no confidence in my ability to work or even study ahead. All I wanted to do is live at home and give up everything. But my family and my Guruji kept me going and helped me through this trauma.

What were the external barriers you faced? Besides the external difficulties what internal barriers or challenges did you go through? What motivated you to move ahead in life?

There were a lot of external and internal barriers. Externally, when you meet some who is not ‘normal’ or with any kind of disability, they already are treated differently. I faced social isolation for a while, and obviously a lot of physical barriers as not having vision made life semi miserable in a city like Mumbai. Academics was a challenge as the Indian education system is still not geared to handle anything like this nor is the physical infrastructure in government services or transportation as well as in a professional setting in jobs.

Internally it was the fact that there was nothing I thought that was in my hand. I could not believe what happened or was happening and obviously my morale was at a low. Every small thing I needed to do was a challenge, from choosing my clothes to wear to going from home for a haircut or traveling to another city for anything. The only thought in my mind was that I was a burden on everyone and that I would never be able to live an independent life. At that age people plan to make a career and support their family and here I was in a situation where I thought my family would have to support me forever.

But as I mentioned above, as a 20 year old man, with a BCom degree, I realized that life was not over. I had tons to do and lots to learn. I decided to take on things in my own and small way. I realized, all with the help of my family, that I could seek alternatives and seek solutions. I took one step at a time and things started changing. I realized that the lesser importance I gave my own disability, people around me would be more accepting. I started regaining confidence and though it was not easy- every step I took was a risk, but it started paying off and I kept building my belief in myself. And since then I have always tried. I have and even now face challenges at every step of life. I have to prove myself and still take time for people to accept me, but I don’t let that affect me and keep doing (hopefully) my best.

You have done an MBA from Narsee Monjee, Mumbai and currently are pursuing one from Wharton. How did you prepare for both your MBAs?

My MBA from NMIMS was straight after my undergrad. I had just lost my vision and was trying to cope with it and also try new things. It was my first step really after this new world that I was in. The first day of NMIMS must be the most difficult day of my life, I came home and cried (sounds silly now), and I did not know why was I trying to do this (MBA) and thought no one wanted to talk to me. But then like I said, as time went off- things started falling in place. I did not prepare much, the studies were not that difficult and the atmosphere was pretty decent.

My Wharton MBA is a totally different experience. I have come here after working in the financial markets. I know I am here with a goal in mind and am here to learn as much as I can about everything. I am here to enhance my learning, knowledge, gain exposure to global business and expand my boundaries as an individual. Again, studies are not that tough, they are quite demanding though. But after having worked and also being surrounded by individuals with such amazing and varied backgrounds, class discussions are amazing and the learning is steep.

The difference is that here as a visually impaired individual, there is an office for students with disabilities that tries its best to make things accessible to me and people are more sensitive (not that they were not at NMIMS).

Do you think there is a lot of difference in the approach and preparation required for both?

I think so, like I said – the fact that you go to a BSchool right after my under graduation your entire focus is just on academics and you come with a narrow perspective. Whereas here you get such different perspectives that the learning is at a different level. The other difference is that the professors are just the best; their research is again at a global level. I had some very good professors at NMIMS as well, some of whom I am still in touch with.

Why did you feel the need to do another MBA?

I wanted to transition into a global business environment. I thought that having spent three to four years in the Indian financial markets, it was time to move on. So for my personal as well as professional growth, I thought another MBA would be the perfect way forward.

What is the difference in the support you received from faculty and peers, infrastructure and assistive technology at both the institutions?

As I mentioned before, the support I receive from faculty and peers is not much different. They were very nice then and are very nice here as well. The difference is in the support I receive from the institution. I would not like to say that NMIMS did not support me, it is how any institution in India is – there is no difference. The fact is that accommodating disability is a big thing in the US whereas it’s not a priority as yet in India. What people don’t realize that an accommodation in the US does not mean that you are given things easily. They only try and make sure that you are at a level playing field and then it’s fair for you to compete. Again, not having sight cannot be totally accommodated, if there is a graph on the slides, it’s humanly or even technologically impossible for me to be accommodated, but then that’s how things are. But if other things that can be taken care of are, then life becomes much simpler.

Do you feel Indian companies are sensitive and adequately equipped towards employment of people with disabilities? How did you feel when despite being a topper at NMIMS companies did not select you? How was your experience working with ING Vysya bank?

It was an interesting period, listening to 'no' all the time until ING Vysya came to campus for recruitment. The funny thing was that no one even wanted to give me an opportunity to interview, forget giving me a job. I don’t know what exactly the issue was, I guess it’s a matter of experience. If they see someone like me working satisfactorily, I believe perceptions might change, but as of now it is a big stereotype, but I would hate to generalize it across Indian companies. You should also realize that merit and disability are two things and it’s easy to blame everything on either of the two. But I did face a significant challenge when I was applying for jobs in India.

My recruiting experience in the US is a little different, though I would not say totally opposite. It was interesting going through the process, as I was probably the first visually impaired student that Career Management was working with, and also I was surprised that I did not get an instance of any other person like me working on Wall Street or in any of the top-consulting firms. At least some of the firms were very accepting and I ended up with a very decent summer job.

ING Vysya was very kind to me and I will always be grateful to them and to Mr. Raghunathan – the President of the bank. They were very open to me and supportive. One of the recruiters told me – as long as you can do the job I don’t care whether you are disabled or not.

How would you compare the, attitudes, access and acceptance of people towards visually impaired in India and abroad? Do you think it is necessary that companies in India should have a Code of Disability for employment of disabled? What would be your suggestions?

More than a code or legislation, what needs to change is the attitude. It’s the trust and belief is missing that disabled individuals are capable. I believe it is changing for sure but slowly.

Can you tell us something about your life at Wharton? Where do you see yourself ten years from now? Do you see yourself making a difference in the lives of other people with disabilities?

I don’t know where I will be ten years from now. It all depends on so many unknowns so I really don’t want to make an essay type answer. All I know is that I want to live a happy life and it does not add as an answer. I surely see myself making a difference, in what way I do not know as yet.

My life at Wharton has been an incredible experience. I have learnt so much, made some wonderful friends and have enjoyed the ups and downs.

Who has been the major influence in your life? Who is your role model? What lessons has life taught you so far? What is your motto in life?

My motto in life, well it should be that I will keep trying and won’t be afraid of failure. But whether I am totally following it is something I still have to figure out. My life has been influenced by: my family, my Guruji, the Atmasantulana family and my inspiration also includes Sachin Tendulkar.

What do you think has made it possible for you to overcome challenges and disability to follow your dreams? Personally and professionally, what has been the most defining moment in your life?

Every step I have taken has been a defining moment, because every step has been a dream come true. I think what I sometime reflect on is that being in my situation, I have been very lucky in whatever I have got and if you keep that in mind, things fall in perspective. Luck has played a major role and I am thankful to God for everything.

Do you see yourself as a role model? What advice would you give to individuals with disabilities? How could one cope with the barriers to reach greater heights in life?

It is very easy to give advice, but only you know what you go through so all I will say is that believe in yourself and don’t let failures affect you. I also want to tell others something, people like me don’t need sympathy, they only need the understanding of the fact that we are different and we do things differently. And it’s not always possible to make that adjustment but it’s not that difficult to do as well.

And a role model – absolutely not – I am just another individual struggling in this race of life.

[The0ne]

even i believe so having a first hand experience of same...while i worked with infy..one of my frenz...shrirang who was blind and yet he completed training in infy with brilliant scores...
but when it came onto projects after training noone was ready to give him...he was on bench for most of the part while i was in infy...such hypocrisy..one side they gave him job but no work to do...

i dont want to hurt ne specific person/institution but this is what i came across...a real life example

[kgthedon]

A very inspiring story. I can only wonder how stiff the guy had to be to come to this level . Hats off to him.

And its really sad to realise how tought the things are for some "Special". That's wat I prefer to call disabled people.

Anyways Three Cheers from my side for the success!!

--Don

[santarocks]

WOW!!!! jus amazin!!!! The way he has overcome odds with grit and determination..We as regular individuals can't even imagine the plight he has undergone for yrs.

Still to be able to do a double MBA frm 2 world class institutions needs sumthin special . Hats off to Ashish !! An inspiring story ..

and thanks to PG for this interview. Will surely inspire lots of us not only in our careers , but in our personal lives also ..

Have no right to quote but I jus loved what he said in the end
"I am just another individual struggling in the race of life"..


Best Wishes
Santarocks

[santarocks]

sorry..double post.

[kgthedon]

Originally Posted by Hail Hel(L)

Huh!! these amazing and all that nonsense comments are flowing in again. It is all because of these guys that these disabled fellas have a mental block, that they are inferior to the rest.

Had someone else got into Wharton, it wud have been an ordinary achievement. But not if this fella had got into. Why cant we just live them their own life rather than reminding that we are so kind to them because they are disabled and their achievements count for more so they they take the crutch of their status every now and then.

Believe me, some of these fellas are absolutely brilliant and can beat some of us supposedly fit guys into sublivion. But still, we will look at them with such an expression of pity on our face. Guys, there is nothing a person despise more than pity.

Understood that some of them do require extra care and shd be provided the samebut at least stop sucking up to the kinds of propaganda some social organizations deliberately spread in the name of their welfare.

Its' not about pity dear...Its about appreciating someones effort. In first place it would not have been an ordinary achievenment even if someone else would have got into Wharton and its awesome achievement for someone who got there in adverse situation.
Noone here is doubting the brilliance or capabitlity of anyone. In fact we belive he is much more brilliant and that's why he is there. Success stories like these are an example set for others and its really great on the part of PG to bring it out. Now its only like if someone found it worth appreciating so he/she did. I don't see anything wrong in that.

[unstoppablemuks]

Really a great story. somewhere or other it touches the heart and pushes up morale to move ahead.

truely said : WHERE THERE IS A WILL THERE IS A WAY.

Muks

[pagalguy]

Originally Posted by Hail Hel(L)

Huh!! these amazing and all that nonsense comments are flowing in again. It is all because of these guys that these disabled fellas have a mental block, that they are inferior to the rest.

Had someone else got into Wharton, it wud have been an ordinary achievement. But not if this fella had got into. Why cant we just live them their own life rather than reminding that we are so kind to them because they are disabled and their achievements count for more so they they take the crutch of their status every now and then.

Believe me, some of these fellas are absolutely brilliant and can beat some of us supposedly fit guys into sublivion. But still, we will look at them with such an expression of pity on our face. Guys, there is nothing a person despise more than pity.

Understood that some of them do require extra care and shd be provided the samebut at least stop sucking up to the kinds of propaganda some social organizations deliberately spread in the name of their welfare.

I don't find your comments to be inline with the article nor the comments have put in. Having known Ashish for a while now, I feel pity for myself because of the ton of excuses I have for myself. I don't think anyone here can even pity Ashish - rather we can just be inspired and get to know the kind of people out there.

I don't think Wharton has been kind or life has been kind or any place/people have been specifically kind to Ashish. He lives alone even in the US, travels alone and parties with a ton of people. He is also pretty much at the top of the grades for the school.

[The Raven]

Originally Posted by Hail Hel(L)

Why did we not see an article on you.

H

Btw, on an aside, did you know you are talking to the guy who runs this site? And not only have there been articles, but his interviews have been published in business magazines and screened on CNBC.

I am not arguing that there would be articles on all people joining Wharton. Just answering to that specific point.

Winning chess blindfolded against an opponent who is not blindfolded as against winning a normal chess match is a greater acheivment. So appreciating this fact is in no way offering sympathy to the player who won blindfolded.

[DesiGuru]

The reason is more economic than cultural... Think about it. Trust in the capability of the disabled. What if for the job you are about to give a disabled you realise there are many people available easily & equally good at it and "not disabled"

Will your trust in the capability of the disabled still remain as much relatively speaking ? Will you take a chance when you dont need to while giving a job ?

Cultural too matters i guess... Lets face it! We see a lot of poor people and beggars who we see are mostly disabled all over traffic lights and in most bigger cities atleast... So whether we like it or not... Our trust heads downwards... But Yes. Lets hope economic progress + successes like these spreading slowly improve that 'trust'

K