At Great Lakes, students are stakeholders

[Apurv]

At Great Lakes, students are stakeholders

PaGaLGuY.com visits Great Lakes Institute of Management at Chennai - the B-school started by Dr Bala Balachandran.

Read the Full Article here

[ketanm]

Hey PG and other mods,

I have been seeing the spate of recently released articles about GLIM on PG. I understand that GLIM has a great potential of becoming a world class B-school in India and many members on this forum might be having it on their radar for admission.

There are few things I would seek clarification from you people. This forum was (and still is??) meant for interaction among students (aspirants, current or pass-outs). Also advertising/marketing of any sort has been agressively dis-allowed by all mods. Looking at these articles on GLIM, the only question that strikes my mind is "Whether GLIM is using PG as a platform for marketing itself?". You(PG) should publicly explain your reason for only choosing GLIM's Dr. Bala for interviewing. Did they called you for an interview or you decided to choose them? Also is it just a start of roaming aroung various Indian B-schools interviewing deans or the story just stops at GLIM? [If you already mentioned this somewhere then please direct me to that link..thanks]

The information sharing till this point has always been through current students, alumns or aspirants. The GLIM current students fear writing anything about the grey areas of the institute since they know that the profs/admin is watching the thread. (see this link (Life @ Great Lakes Inst. of Mgmt-Chennai)). Everything's rosy about GLIM and when someone notices (edited??) articles about interview with Uncle Bala on PG, then its like putting a final seal on this topic. No one can now talk against this rosy picture and if some tries, he will be totally ignored (see Desiguru's post here ("Indian students are too analytical")).

I dont intent to invite flames. No offense to anyone. Just wanted to know what the mods think about it.

Its okay if mods dont want to answer, then please just ignore this post.

Ketan

[pagalguy]

Really good post ketan and I was expecting this to come up as well. We'v been working on a bunch of articles in the background and wanted to run a few articles on business schools , mostly business schools and interviews with deans etc. So while we started off with GLIM by deciding to interview Dr. Bala, we saw more article ideas coming up and the final series of those articles is the last one you just read.

I've been in touch with quite a few schools, namely ISB, MDI, NITIE, some IIM for interviews, but I am also realizing that most of them are insanely bureaucratic. When did you ever see a NITIE adcom interview? I want to do that..and you will see that sometime . Interestingly, most of the schools are pretty closed to such ideas and Great Lakes wasn't and I guess that is the difference.

While adcom/dean interviews can be completed on the telephone, the kind of detailed coverage needed for the last one warrants a visit. Thats not something most of the schools I've been in touch with are very comfy about. But its more a matter of Q and time before we have access and you get to see never before seen interviews and articles.

So the more business schools open up and allow us access, the more interviews you will see. This is just the start. One article from the Duke adcom too was in the pipeline, lets see how that goes as well.

The idea is to present a picture that most of us have never seen or had access to in India. But its not easy, so its more of a question of time and our ability to gain access and credibility

Originally Posted by ketanm

There are few things I would seek clarification from you people. This forum was (and still is??) meant for interaction among students (aspirants, current or pass-outs). Also advertising/marketing of any sort has been agressively dis-allowed by all mods. Looking at these articles on GLIM, the only question that strikes my mind is "Whether GLIM is using PG as a platform for marketing itself?". You(PG) should publicly explain your reason for only choosing GLIM's Dr. Bala for interviewing. Did they called you for an interview or you decided to choose them? Also is it just a start of roaming aroung various Indian B-schools interviewing deans or the story just stops at GLIM? [If you already mentioned this somewhere then please direct me to that link..thanks]

The information sharing till this point has always been through current students, alumns or aspirants. The GLIM current students fear writing anything about the grey areas of the institute since they know that the profs/admin is watching the thread. (see this link (Life @ Great Lakes Inst. of Mgmt-Chennai)). Everything's rosy about GLIM and when someone notices (edited??) articles about interview with Uncle Bala on PG, then its like putting a final seal on this topic. No one can now talk against this rosy picture and if some tries, he will be totally ignored (see Desiguru's post here ("Indian students are too analytical")).

I dont intent to invite flames. No offense to anyone. Just wanted to know what the mods think about it.

Its okay if mods dont want to answer, then please just ignore this post.

Ketan

[ketanm]

Originally Posted by pagalguy

I've been in touch with quite a few schools, namely ISB, MDI, NITIE, some IIM for interviews, but I am also realizing that most of them are insanely bureaucratic. When did you ever see a NITIE adcom interview? I want to do that..and you will see that sometime . Interestingly, most of the schools are pretty closed to such ideas and Great Lakes wasn't and I guess that is the difference.

While adcom/dean interviews can be completed on the telephone, the kind of detailed coverage needed for the last one warrants a visit. Thats not something most of the schools I've been in touch with are very comfy about. But its more a matter of Q and time before we have access and you get to see never before seen interviews and articles.

So the more business schools open up and allow us access, the more interviews you will see. This is just the start. One article from the Duke adcom too was in the pipeline, lets see how that goes as well.

The idea is to present a picture that most of us have never seen or had access to in India. But its not easy, so its more of a question of time and our ability to gain access and credibility

Oh my gawd..... PG you rock.. that was much much greater effort from you guys than I imagined.... kudos...

[donB]

i would like to get into the discussion of whether GLIM is using PG as a platform to promote itself.

Firstly, whats wrong with that? PG is a place where ppl still think! Its not too difficult to see thru facades and break them down. If the GLIM guys do say something out of teh ordinary here there are enuff ppl here to question them and they are doing that. Its not a one way communication medium where ppl cannot question the message comin across.


Secondly, Being in a Bschool myself i do see how diff committees work and the question is why arent the other media cells out here telllin ppl how their life in their bschools is? u see a lot of announcements but how many guys go in depth with photos etc over here? Maybe Glimmers have more time on their hands or is it a matter of priority?

Harip2 came into PG before he became a Glimmer and im glad to see his enthu on PG has not waned in anyway and his enthu for his inst is glad to see as i would definitely like to see what my friends are upto in the diff inst.


Im sure none of us have time for an active PG life here but definitely for the media cell it shudnt be too much of a issue coz they already have the material and the photos... Ctrl C + V isnt too much of a hassle!

[Apurv]

Originally Posted by donB

i would like to get into the discussion of whether GLIM is using PG as a platform to promote itself.

Firstly, whats wrong with that? PG is a place where ppl still think! Its not too difficult to see thru facades and break them down. If the GLIM guys do say something out of teh ordinary here there are enuff ppl here to question them and they are doing that. Its not a one way communication medium where ppl cannot question the message comin across.


Secondly, Being in a Bschool myself i do see how diff committees work and the question is why arent the other media cells out here telllin ppl how their life in their bschools is? u see a lot of announcements but how many guys go in depth with photos etc over here? Maybe Glimmers have more time on their hands or is it a matter of priority?

Harip2 came into PG before he became a Glimmer and im glad to see his enthu on PG has not waned in anyway and his enthu for his inst is glad to see as i would definitely like to see what my friends are upto in the diff inst.


Im sure none of us have time for an active PG life here but definitely for the media cell it shudnt be too much of a issue coz they already have the material and the photos... Ctrl C + V isnt too much of a hassle!

Very well said. GLIM, unlike most other b-schools we deal with, has zero bureaucracy in its external dealings. That has helped it in getting it a good pitch here.

Some of the 'top bschools' that we are dealing with for similar coverage are a study in babudom. Many (not all) Media Cell representatives have no clue of dealing with the media, others have no understanding of what effective communication is, 'follow up' is a word terminally absent from their dictionaries. The rest think they are doing a monumental favour to newspapers websites and TV channels by giving them the opportunity to cover the institute. .

[ketanm]

Originally Posted by donB

i would like to get into the discussion of whether GLIM is using PG as a platform to promote itself.

Firstly, whats wrong with that?

A lot !! I dont have anything against GLIM, but if mods created a policy, it should apply to all. If GLIM is allowed promotion, then why stop IMS or Career Launcher or even "eye eye pee am" to promote their coaching insitutes or B-school. If PG/mods themselves wants to use the forum for telling something about GLIM its fine, but other way round, with an institute using PG as a platform for promotion should be absolutely no no.

Originally Posted by donB

PG is a place where ppl still think! Its not too difficult to see thru facades and break them down. If the GLIM guys do say something out of teh ordinary here there are enuff ppl here to question them and they are doing that. Its not a one way communication medium where ppl cannot question the message comin across.

Yeah I know members in PG still thinks... but then why stop "eye eye pee am" (or any other insitute)..... ppl will definitely thrash them like anything....

So its not a matter of "whats wrong" but of principle... you make a rule for eveyone then stick to it...

Originally Posted by Apurv

Very well said. GLIM, unlike most other b-schools we deal with, has zero bureaucracy in its external dealings. That has helped it in getting it a good pitch here.

Some of the 'top bschools' that we are dealing with for similar coverage are a study in babudom. Many (not all) Media Cell representatives have no clue of dealing with the media, others have no understanding of what effective communication is, 'follow up' is a word terminally absent from their dictionaries. The rest think they are doing a monumental favour to newspapers websites and TV channels by giving them the opportunity to cover the institute. .

Well let us think from another aspect.... do you think an institute like IIM-A needs any such platform like Pagalguy.com to promote themselves?? Even before Pagalguy.com existed... IIM-A was among the top asian B-school and nothing has changed now....so from an IIM-A point of view nothing changes with having a bureaucratic media cell. What will change for IIM-A if it got a highly efficient media cell? Guess more coverage in India media... do they want it? A more coverage in international media...... but probably they are not looking for it...because otherwise they would have opened their gates long ago for international applicants.... (they are doing it now though).....

So my point is the media cell will remain bureaucratic unless the institute feels a need to make it efficient and that happens only when it gets too loose something.....

I dont contend the point that GLIM might have a very efficient media cell amongst the insititues of its own age....but then did pagalguy.com went to all such institutes in India which have been recently opened... I guess no.....As per my understanding it just went to few top institutes (which are mostly IIMs/ISB etc)... so this comparision seems useless..... GLIM probably would gain the most with having an efficient media cell, since it has just come up and more promotion in media would assure them good students and good reputation.

BTW another question which comes to my mind is when some one says that "some institutes have bureaucratic media cell" does this imply that
1) These b-schools didnt give much importance to Pagalguy.com
2) These b-schools didnt advertise/promote themselves well (in that sense probably the most efficient media cell would belong to "eye eye pee am" with a page long ad in every damn newspaper.)


Just my thoughts....and yeah no offense meant to anyone....

Ketan

NOTE 1: As a disclaimer, I would want to reiterate that I personally do not have anything against GLIM. As few people [read prashanth (harip) ] might categorise me as an anti-GLIMmer...but this is far from truth. I have high respect for Dr. Bala (there are few ppl who achieve so much in one life-time).... and I just dont have enough worldly experience to say anything against his vision about GLIM....


NOTE 2 : Ofcourse I dont understand much about what goes inside a media cell of an organization...so a brief tuorial about it might be helpful to increase my gyaan ..

[haripi2]

Originally Posted by ketanm

A lot !! I dont have anything against GLIM, but if mods created a policy, it should apply to all. If GLIM is allowed promotion, then why stop IMS or Career Launcher or even "eye eye pee am" to promote their coaching insitutes or B-school. If PG/mods themselves wants to use the forum for telling something about GLIM its fine, but other way round, with an institute using PG as a platform for promotion should be absolutely no no.



Yeah I know members in PG still thinks... but then why stop "eye eye pee am" (or any other insitute)..... ppl will definitely thrash them like anything....

So its not a matter of "whats wrong" but of principle... you make a rule for eveyone then stick to it...



Well let us think from another aspect.... do you think an institute like IIM-A needs any such platform like Pagalguy.com to promote themselves?? Even before Pagalguy.com existed... IIM-A was among the top asian B-school and nothing has changed now....so from an IIM-A point of view nothing changes with having a bureaucratic media cell. What will change for IIM-A if it got a highly efficient media cell? Guess more coverage in India media... do they want it? A more coverage in international media...... but probably they are not looking for it...because otherwise they would have opened their gates long ago for international applicants.... (they are doing it now though).....

So my point is the media cell will remain bureaucratic unless the institute feels a need to make it efficient and that happens only when it gets too loose something.....

I dont contend the point that GLIM might have a very efficient media cell amongst the insititues of its own age....but then did pagalguy.com went to all such institutes in India which have been recently opened... I guess no.....As per my understanding it just went to few top institutes (which are mostly IIMs/ISB etc)... so this comparision seems useless..... GLIM probably would gain the most with having an efficient media cell, since it has just come up and more promotion in media would assure them good students and good reputation.

BTW another question which comes to my mind is when some one says that "some institutes have bureaucratic media cell" does this imply that
1) These b-schools didnt give much importance to Pagalguy.com
2) These b-schools didnt advertise/promote themselves well (in that sense probably the most efficient media cell would belong to "eye eye pee am" with a page long ad in every damn newspaper.)


Just my thoughts....and yeah no offense meant to anyone....

Ketan

NOTE 1: As a disclaimer, I would want to reiterate that I personally do not have anything against GLIM. As few people [read prashanth (harip) ] might categorise me as an anti-GLIMmer...but this is far from truth. I have high respect for Dr. Bala (there are few ppl who achieve so much in one life-time).... and I just dont have enough worldly experience to say anything against his vision about GLIM....


NOTE 2 : Ofcourse I dont understand much about what goes inside a media cell of an organization...so a brief tuorial about it might be helpful to increase my gyaan ..

Hi ketan,
i would like to reiterate that we have not approached PG for promotional campaigns and when allwyn came up with an idea of analyzing B-schools we grabbed up the oppurtunity.
ketan i dont think you are an anti GLIMmer , i just mentioned you were a wee bit skeptical about it , which i guess is normal. as a start up B-school we need to ensure that all our positives need to be told to the public and ensure that great lakes does not miss out a good student just because there was lack of info. As you said IIMA does not need any publicity,why??because they have been existing for more than 4 decades!!! we cant take the conservative approach and are being a bit aggresive in informing whatever event happens in our college. i think all colleges do that and in that sense there is no bias towards the institute by PG. besides i guess we have been really truthful with respect to the facts .

if you have noticed we have told about all the events in just one thread. it just happens that the recent 3 articles on PG have been about great lakes. the next could be any other school which is willing to cooperate with PG. if you notice PG had done a great thing last year in covering IIMA confluence and vista. i would categorise the recent articles also in the same vein.

i reiterate i have nothing against you or your opinions and just replied to convey my stance.

regards,
Prashanth

[MavericK]

Originally Posted by pagalguy

The idea is to present a picture that most of us have never seen or had access to in India. But its not easy, so its more of a question of time and our ability to gain access and credibility

Originally Posted by Apurv

Very well said. GLIM, unlike most other b-schools we deal with, has zero bureaucracy in its external dealings. That has helped it in getting it a good pitch here.

Some of the 'top bschools' that we are dealing with for similar coverage are a study in babudom. Many (not all) Media Cell representatives have no clue of dealing with the media, others have no understanding of what effective communication is, 'follow up' is a word terminally absent from their dictionaries. The rest think they are doing a monumental favour to newspapers websites and TV channels by giving them the opportunity to cover the institute. .

Talking about the discussions about media cells and promotions. Allwin, what is this "picture" that the Bschools can show us, thru PG.com ? Is it possible to get the "exact" placement figures (Not CTC et al). Not that Im really bothered abt the highest pay package in IIMX, but Im sure for many, that might be the foremost reason to join that school. PG.com is now in touch with Bschools for similar study/articles. But can you ever post anything close to 100% truth ? Lets say if something like the XLRI ragging issue pops up now in some Bschool which you are dealing, will it be possible for you to come out with what exactly happened ? From where I can see, all we'll get to see is the "rosy" side of every school. Which any weekly magazine can provide. Maybe Im missing a lot of stuff here (that too as a mod ), maybe someone can shed some light. Cos all I can see through these articles is - Pure advertising!

[Apurv]

Originally Posted by ketanm

Well let us think from another aspect.... do you think an institute like IIM-A needs any such platform like Pagalguy.com to promote themselves?? Even before Pagalguy.com existed... IIM-A was among the top asian B-school and nothing has changed now....so from an IIM-A point of view nothing changes with having a bureaucratic media cell. What will change for IIM-A if it got a highly efficient media cell? Guess more coverage in India media... do they want it? A more coverage in international media...... but probably they are not looking for it...because otherwise they would have opened their gates long ago for international applicants.... (they are doing it now though).....

So my point is the media cell will remain bureaucratic unless the institute feels a need to make it efficient and that happens only when it gets too loose something.....

I dont contend the point that GLIM might have a very efficient media cell amongst the insititues of its own age....but then did pagalguy.com went to all such institutes in India which have been recently opened... I guess no.....As per my understanding it just went to few top institutes (which are mostly IIMs/ISB etc)... so this comparision seems useless..... GLIM probably would gain the most with having an efficient media cell, since it has just come up and more promotion in media would assure them good students and good reputation.

BTW another question which comes to my mind is when some one says that "some institutes have bureaucratic media cell" does this imply that
1) These b-schools didnt give much importance to Pagalguy.com
2) These b-schools didnt advertise/promote themselves well (in that sense probably the most efficient media cell would belong to "eye eye pee am" with a page long ad in every damn newspaper.)

I never mentioned any institute's name in my post, so it was kinda presumptuous of you to put forward IIM-A's name .
Your point that an already successful b-school doesnt need media coverage sounds logical in principle.

However, since you've brought up IIMA's name, you'll be surprised to know that IIM-A has a very efficient and non-bureaucratic Media Cell. Long before GLIM, IIMA was the first b-school to be extensively covered on pagalguy.com, during confluence, when pagalguy.com was media partner for their festival. They were most forthcoming in every aspect, Subbu visited Ahmedabad for the coverage. There's more. The IIMA Director is one of the most reachable b-school heads around. IIMA coverages in newspapers and TV usually go like... "Talking to this reporter on phone from Singapore, the IIMA Director confirmed such and such development." His mobile number is out there and he picks it up for any reporter even when he's on international roaming.

A college like NITIE, which has already established itself well and has been kicking even the IIMs' asses in terms of I-bank placements, has the most meticulous, thorough and professional guys in their media cell.

There is no absolutely no connection between an institution's success and its need for media coverage/approval. It all boils down to who 'gets it' and who doesn't

All successful companies, however small or mammoth, listed or not listed, have whole departments only for handling the media. Heck, they consider it so important that they outsource it to corporate communication agencies. You have a whole b-school like MICA that churns out professionals who after passing out will handle the media for big companies.

So your point, though it makes for good mathematics, is not true in the real case. All going concerns want to look good in the media.

Going back to b-schools, bureaucracy in Media Cells is only due to pure ineptitude of people. A b-schooler friend once told me that Bschool Media Cells are also a way for students to get a rough idea of corporate communications. Ten years later, these students will meet a reporter at some party or conference and will have to answer awkward questions. A Media Cell is a good opportunity to make some long term friends in the press and learn the lexicon of the media. Writing press releases, arranging interviews, writing media invites... they're all skills. But many of them just don't use it.

So the efficiency of Media Cells finally boils down to the capability and media understanding of a guy they've put to handle the press.

Some of these 'top' bschool media cell ppl contact us for some or the other coverage sounding all enthusiastic, writing long mails and stuff. They initiate everything with big plans and all. It sparks our interest, so we respond. For some time there is lot of excitement. Then they suddenly disappear into oblivion. No follow ups, no nothing. Zero professionalism. That is what 'bureaucratic' refers to.

As for the "eye eye pee em" , it is an extreme case. Agreed that a PR exercise is not completely clean, but these people are plain blatantly dishonest. Even the Outlook survey has publicly dissociated with them for their dubious practices.

GLIM, on the other hand, has some integrity. What Allwin and Subbu wrote in the articles are their honest experiences.