[j0]

Originally Posted by uRmad

This post, coupled with some of the master-pieces on this (career in mass communication) thread prove beyond doubt that you have sent whatever little of cerebral mass is left in your brain on a hike !! Would appreciate if you start a go-slow on your flame-baits !!

I read DG's post on this thread... and some of what he has written on the link you provided.
It is a given that his medium for expression is mostly quite taxing to the eye and the majority's tastes.
But as you yourself said,

Take the pains to help yourself to understand something if at first you seem puzzled !!

Our man here makes some valid points, in whatever way that he does... what you posted above may not have been entirely justified.

And DG when you know you have some good points to make, be a lil humbler... you mentioned Drucker so I might as well paraphrase Kotler on Nike...
"Over-marketing cheapens the best of products".

Hope you guys will play nice and that some of the relevant queries raised here will get addressed.

[pagalguy]

I like this thread for one reason .. you guys have actually read the article and formed opinions/questions. More so, when I thought such an article wouldn't really be appreciated by our folks

I think subbu did get a lil impassioned, but the truth is, most of our hyd junta have been working with MVF. For them, its not just an article that came out of the blue. Our guys have been working with MVF, right from tutoring their teachers, organizing the Mock UNGA and working on other issues and helping out as and when we can.

However, most of the clarifications for the points you folks have raised can be found at :

http://www.mvfindia.org/faqs.htm

Again, I love the fact that you folks have read the article this carefully and I hope at some point you guys can contribute with more than just words and join in with the Hyd junta or any of our other initiatives

Cheers,

[Omerta]

Hi Mod,
having read the article by DrSinha, I have no doubt in my mind what is fundamentally addressed in her writing: Access to education is a birthright provided by our constitution and I guess none denies it.
But that do leave some questions unanswered. At the very onset , a very noble thot by Dr Sinha that if materialised can really work wonders for the country catapaulting itself into the First World. Dr Sinha says children do not work coz they r poor. For me this is the crux of the discussion.
Why are children forced to work? Can we deny the social ramifications that goes behind this in every facet of our society. One thng links to another.
Poverty does cause families to force child labour and they accept it. Illiteracy, lack of education makes families ignorant of the injustice they r metting out to their own children. And this is intricately intertwined in our social fabric. Underprivileged children do attend school even if its for a free mid day meal......and lo! Its India dear freinds ...we again have a scandal with rotten foods being served to the poor children ..then there are enquiry commissions and there are suspensions but end result? Big zero...or rather...back to square one!
Its heartening to note that villagers r risin up to the issue and forcing their wards into schools by sacrificing mayb a bottle of country liquor. If that is really the case on a wide scale basis as mentioned by dr Sinha, its heartening.( coz there are no stats) And if its a prototype model , then way to go.

But point is...this issue is connected to the major social issues plaguing the country today and addressing only this is not gonna solve it. But yes, u do need to start somewhere and a lot of mobilisation is required.

But Mod, I guess DG has made some points albeit in his own way which r quite valid.
there is a question of practicability of the sheer numbers of schools that need b run for this. There is also a question of money involved. How do we plan to mobilise on this...individual contri or goin for a mass awareness? any imputs?

Though DG might have been a bit carried away on the small scale industry part...children shud not b denied right to education for running even the most presious form of traditional art....but nevertheless...some of his points are valid.

Question for PG: any idea as to how Pagals not stationed in Hyd can work for this...myself am a candidate on this and trust me I live very very far away :(
Monetory or posting in this forum is there.....any suggestions?

Originally Posted by uRmad

All these days, I had a gut feeling that you were just being the devil's advocate in a lotta threads...But now, thanks for proving me wrong !! This post, coupled with some of the master-pieces on this (career in mass communication) thread prove beyond doubt that you have sent whatever little of cerebral mass is left in your brain on a hike !! Would appreciate if you start a go-slow on your flame-baits !!

Take the pains to help yourself to understand something if at first you seem puzzled !! If you cant make the effort, dont expect others to do your laundry !!

[pagalguy]

Sure you can and people have. We have a newsletter project that has been stagnant as of now. This newsletter was created on PG by its members and then later printed by MVF and distributed to the children they had rescued from child labour.

Have you looked at the touching lives section of the forum ? I am sure once you go through the threads you will find something that you can contribute your time/efforts to. Else put up a new idea and lets see how that works

Question for PG: any idea as to how Pagals not stationed in Hyd can work for this...myself am a candidate on this and trust me I live very very far away :sad:
Monetory or posting in this forum is there.....any suggestions?

[pratiklohia]

Its easier said than done.... but it needs to be done.
But I also believe that just not hiring these children as local labourers would greatly aid the efforts to abolish child labour. Definitely, the life of every individual in such families needs to be brought to order, the way the efforts have been described in this article.
But at the same time, one very important point we need to look into is that of the number of mouths in each of these families that need to be fed. With more children, the energies and already very meagre resources of these families get channelised into feeding them and taking care of other day to day chores, forget putting that money into their education. And to feed each of them, even the children are put to work at very low wages.
According to a recent survey, an average Indian family has five children!!! This is the figure that needs to be given the highest priority and brought under control.
Girls gettin married at 13 and becoming mothers at 15... this is just too scary... and I think not just child labour, a majority of Indias problems can be solved by bringing the population under control. A lot of work is getting done at the grass root level, but the pace of this is too slow. Statistics reveal, by 2040 we will touch the 1.6 billion mark. Imagine the kind of burden this population is on the resources.

I think, Dr. Sinhas work can get a major boost, if the Government of the country takes a huge step into the issue of Population control, (just the way the all important Pappu Yadav was made a huge issue and media celebrity... pun intended), our demagogy needs to give the cause of population control, their sweat and blood.
There was a bill under consideration, that people with more than two children will not be allowed Government jobs and that families with lesser number of children will be given certain priviledges. I am not sure if that came into force, but nothing much has been heard about it lately. That, I would say, was a very able propsition on part of the government and if such a thing comes into force, it will help every kind of reform, be it economic or social, and efforts of the likes of Dr. Sinha be effective and deliver results in a much faster and efficient manner

[Hobbes]

Hi All,

I have been away hibernating for too long, so didnt see this thread. I will try to answer some of the questions you guys have raised. I believe these questions are asked by a lot of us, maybe in subtler forms, but nonetheless the crux is the same.

I have tried to cover all the questions that have not been answered till now. Plz let me know incase I missed any.

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

What age constitutes a child. So should this law be for under 15, or under 12 or under 18...

As per the Child Labor (Prohibition and Regulation) Act 1986, the Indian govt defines a child as one who is less than 14 years of age.

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

How will some indigenous businesses and small enterprises be affected by this... Give me in real terms, how many real people (children included) will lose their livelihood? How many businesses will shut down? Will some of india's traditional forms of art or handicraft die because of this?

Didnt get your question here. Why do you think businesses will shut down or the traditional forms die because of this?

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

If actually all the children started going to school will we have enough schools?

The answer to your question is NO, we wont have enough schools. If we wont have enuf schools, then we need to start building more. This, in NO WAY, ABSOLUITELY NO WAY, can be used as a justification to let child labor continue.

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

Is it possible practically to spend so much more money

Yes it is! As a nation, we need to think long term.

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

and also lose money because of lost work.

I dont think you quite understood the point being made by Mrs Sinha. The jobs which are no longer being done by kids, are now being done by adults. If a child is paid Rs 20 a day for 12 hrs of work, an adult is being paid Rs 108 a day for 8 hrs of work. So who is losing the money here? The poor most certainly are not!

For instance, it will be some sportsperson in a developed country who will have to shell out $110 instead of $100 for a pair of shoes. I specifically bring out this example to highlight how large MNCs like Nilke also promote child labor passively. They give the contract to make some part of the shoe to say A. A in turn sub contracts this to B. B sub contracts to C. C employs child labor to do the work. So these big shot MNCs can wash their hands off saying "we have checks in place and we donot award contracts to companies that directly engage in child labor, or who's sub-contractors engage in child labor." But you go one level down, and you can see that they do just that!

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

If we spend more money on this what should we cut back on...

India's GDP is growing at a healthy rate of 6-8%. We can prolly channelize those extra funds into the education system. Infact, if all the funds allocated to education actually find their actual intended cause, I think we should be able to do a lot with the existing allocation itself.

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

American kids work at places like McDonalds etc... Some part time, some full time. So children from the developed world are allowed to work...

US also have an anti child labor law in place; which states that only children above 14 yrs of age can be employed. You can get more info on this on the Dept of Labor website. Moreover, The kids in developed countries work out of choice. They are not coerced into labor the way these kids are. Alsosince those kids go to school, they can make informed decisions. Unlike these kids who donot have access to any form of education.

You will also find it interesting to know that US is the only country in the world to NOT have ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child! The only other country is Somalia, which doesnt have an internationally recognised govt! So treating everything done by US as holy grail, aint right!

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

How are we so different that we absolutely disallow our children to work?

For us its a problem at a national level. We have over 100 million child laborers in the coutnry. Thats nearly 10% of our population! Whereas, as per some unofficial estimates, US has 0.3 million child laborers; most of them being illegal mexican, chilean, peruvian, cuban etc immigrants.

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

Why should someone lose the right to work? Cant he keep the right to work as well be 'almost' forced to study?

I absolutely agree with you. Nobody should lose the right to work; the operative word here being "Right". At the same time, that same person should also be in a position to understand the other alternatives, before choosing to work. Do you really think a kid who is all of 6 years has developed the maturity to understand the other alternatives? Do you think he "chose" to work after having considered the other alternative of studying? Does he really have the "right" that we are talking about?

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

Why more rules, regulations and laws which expose possibly more exploitation of the poor?

I fail to see in what way is sending kids to school is exploitation of the poor?

Originally Posted by DesiGuru

Why stop someone from working when 10% people refuse to work and another 10% do not find employment however hard they try (with all the education)... and another 10% die of hunger???

Firstly I am keen on knowing what is the source of these stats. Secondly, this is NO justification whatsoever to force an innocent child into labor.

Originally Posted by calvin_123

why do their parents have kids when they do not have enough money/capability to support them?

D0000d! Have a heart! How many couples donot want kids? Its human nature! I agree with your statement in so far that this "human nature" cannot justify having 10 kids. But just because they are poor, does not take away their right to have kids! Also how may of them are aware of birth control mechanisms? In all likeliness they were also child laborers and didnt have schooling. So how do they understand the concept of "birth control" by themselves? You see the vicious circle that surrounds this social evil? This is exactly what Mrs Shantha Sinha refers to as "intergenerational cycle of poverty and deprivation"

Originally Posted by calvin_123

it doesn’t seem to have any clear mention about what we can do

Visit the Touching Lives section of the forums. You will have a clear idea as to where you can contribute - PG zee, maybe we can should mention this in the article.

Originally Posted by Omerta

children do not work coz they r poor. For me this is the crux of the discussion.

Bang On! That is precisely the message that Shantha ma'am was trying to communicate!

Originally Posted by Omerta

Its heartening to note that villagers r risin up to the issue and forcing their wards into schools by sacrificing mayb a bottle of country liquor. If that is really the case on a wide scale basis as mentioned by dr Sinha, its heartening.( coz there are no stats) And if its a prototype model , then way to go.

Its happening on a mass scale in all the 6000 villages that MVF is active in. Once the parents are made to understand the value of education, they are willing to work as opposed to drink n be merry. As MVF and its partner orgs spread this msg, we can see more of this happening.

Let me know if have any more queries.

Uday