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International and Indian MBA schools accepting GMAT Application related discussions for admissions to ISB, IIMs' PGPX and universities abroad. Share your experience and help everyone with your knowledge.

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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans
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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans - 28-12-2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iday View Post
Inblue:
u make the same post twice and get thanked for it twice???
Unfair

Neo:
i guess i work best at nights. So will put up a post tonight

" Accidents happen I " Read the PS of the edited post
   
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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans
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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans - 28-12-2006, 09:53 PM

School Selection - the I-way

I dont know whether i am qualified enough to speak about school selection, because exactly one year back - i was in the other (more active) CAT group of threads. This was the time when there was heavy speculation in the air, about the timing of the CAT result, and i was hoping i'd get at least one call. One month later, i was hopefully clinging on to the XAT results, only to be defeated by DI. Till Feb, i was sulking.

Bottom line, whatever i knew about schools is whatever i learned in the past 10 months. This post should hence be taken with a lot of salt (as against a pinch).

The beginning

I knew the US MBA experience was completely different from the Indian MBA experience. I also knew one must be extremely focussed (or atleast have an idea) about what he/she wants to do after the degree. When i created my own profile in www.mba.com, i figured out they have a LOT of info about the stuff i wanted to know. The particularly interesting feature was the "one day in the life of" page. It gave me a lot of info i needed, which helped me clear my head and also during the school selection process.

Generally speaking, do some introspection and a lot of data accumulation about all the options an US MBA would place in front of you. This, i believe, is very important. I was clear about which field i wanted to get in, but this process helped me zero in a a few functions, which i intend to explore while in school.

Rankings - make the right choice

I wanted to go to a top school. Period.

Rankings provide a quantified way to compare between different schools, and hence are an important part of the school selection process. Once i
was clear (or at least not too confused) about my post MBA goals, I now went to these rankings. While there are a lot of institutions doing ranking schools, it is important to understand the ones which are relevant to us, as applicants, and also those which are valued generally. To be able to do this effectively, it is important to understand the methodology behind the rankings.

Once you visit these rankings, prepare your own table and capture specific info about the top schools in all lists. Then go on to zero in on the schools that you find more impressive. Now that you have your post-MBA plans clear, a lot of schools will easily move out of the radar. Be brutally honest with yourself here - if you see that famous course moving out of the list because it is not in line with your career interests, dont worry. you are only doing yourself a huge favor by moving that school out of the list. This is a place where you make absolutely no compromises.

Info, info everywhere

Now go to the websites of all these schools and mine for all kind of information. Sign up with the schools and ask them to mail you their brochures (i have quite a collection ). Once you sign up, the school will keep u posted abt everything happening in the school (w.r.t. admissions of course). The school's websites will have latest info on admission and recruitment - which we should obviously be interested in. The website is also a great way to find info about the academics, faculty, specializations and more importantly, the culture of the school.

Also check out the schedule of the receptions organized by the school and register for them as and when registrations are open. Explore all possibilities of obtaining info about the school. Mail current students (you can get their ids thru the websites - mostly in club pages), mail alums (this you can find only thru the students), seek info in numerous forums (again - use ur judgement), try everything you can ever think of. Come out of your shell and reach out!

With all the info, you will now begin the difficult process of looking beyond the facts and figures, and selecting a school which will be good for you. Just like we applicants are in diff flavors, schools come in diff flavors too. The important thing to remember here is that we might feel good about more than one flavor - we dont necessarily have to "fit" at only one kind of school. The trade offs must always be done in the non-core areas and not your core criterion for selecting a school. If living in a city and a sub-urb doesnt make any difference for you, your school list will widen - but u cannot never choose a school not strong in strategy consulting and dream that the school will provide you openings in SC. That's perhaps a pretty straight forward example - but i guess i made my point clear

A list of the issues to consider while selecting schools:
  • Academics - explore the strengths and weaknesses of the course. Be sure you beat market perceptions. A school like Kellogg (for all it's fame/name in Marketing) has a pretty good Finance course, with all top recruiters visiting. Then rip apart all options the school offers in the particular specialization u r interested in - from individual courses to related professional clubs.
  • Flexibility of the Curriculum - while the completely flexible curriculum of Kellogg might sound cool, make sure u r ready for it. It is a huge burden u r taking on urself!
  • Specific courses - if you are super clear abt the courses u want to take, or if you have unique course requirements, make sure the school offers those.
  • Teaching methodology - Apart from the case method against lecture argument, make sure you check the other options also. Experiential learning options, international learning visits, conferences held by clubs, competitions run by clubs, anything you'd care about.
  • Learning groups - While all schools use groups, check out specific details about the group organization of each school. Number of students per group, frequency of group changes etc shud show u whether u'd be comfortable in such a group environment.
  • Clubs - Check out whether the school offers you clubs in all areas you are keen about - both professional and otherwise. Pick out individual clubs and check the activities of these clubs. If you find any club missing and if u feel passionate abt the subject, not this down and mention u plan to start such a club if u r admitted
  • Culture - One cannot define this. This is basically what you feel about the school. There might be unconventional ways to figure this out. Does the school have a forum, does the school participate in the more renowned forums (BW), what do you feel about the behavior of the current students or executives from the school (whom you'd meet in receptions), does the school reach out to applicants in any other way - if yes, check that out. The student body will have a personal side and figure that out. Ask yourself whether you'd wanna be a part of a student body.
  • Student attitude - a controversial discussion. I am not going name schools or use adjectives here. I guess you guys know what i am speaking about But it is best you discuss this with people you know.
  • Alumni participation - check this out. The school's alums are the primary long term contacts in business. Verify the opportunities the schools provide to meet alums and interact with them, apart from the career events.
  • Career Services - All schools have a career services site. Check out their activities and what they offer to you. This is important.
  • Recruiting companies - All schools provide a list of companies visiting campus. Check if ur target companies are in the list.
  • Seeping thru details - B schools love to dump u with data. There will be tables and charts in the placement details page, trying to project a colorful picture. Check if the particular function(s) u r interested in have a good scope in ur target school. Check their base salaries, compare them against the others.
I am 110% sure i missed something. The bottom line here is to try figure out as much about all the schools and make an informed choice.

GMAT

As i mentioned in one of my earlier posts, gather this info and try to beat the median GMAT score (this will be a single figure) of your target schools, by as much as possible. If you can handle additional self induced pressure, consider the top end of the middle 80% scores (schools give u a range eg: 640 - 780. This means approx 10% of their class scored less than 640 and vice versa) listed by the schools and try to beat that. Generally, the maximum median GMAT score will be around 710 and the maximum ens of the middle 80% score will be near 800. This is for TOP schools.

Also - select 5 schools which u'd definitely apply, and report scores for free. For me atleast, it was important to be clear about this list because i was always working towards those targets. Without knowing the target schools, my mind would definitely have lost its way during GMAT preps. Again - it is all speculation and i might be biased coz it all worked well for me

Last edited by iday; 28-12-2006 at 11:19 PM.
   
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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans
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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans - 28-12-2006, 10:19 PM

Awesome post.
And is there a typo in this or am I not getting something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iday View Post
School Selection - the I-way
Generally, the maximum median GMAT score will be around 710 and the maximum middle 80% score will be near 800. This is for TOP schools.
   
Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans
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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans - 29-12-2006, 05:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cracked-it View Post
Awesome post.
And is there a typo in this or am I not getting something?
I don't think it's a typo.. check out the 80% GMAT range for any top school (specifically Stanford.. nothing beats S, ever anywhere... not even in these stats
   
Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans
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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans - 29-12-2006, 10:14 AM

Awesome thread dont you'll think??

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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans
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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans - 29-12-2006, 10:33 AM

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Originally Posted by Neo2000 View Post
Awesome thread dont you'll think??

Showed my appreciation
Oh no!!!
That was too quick...

I better fill this up with more useful info
   
Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans
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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans - 29-12-2006, 10:38 AM

Great posts iday and inblue. Couldn't agree more with you guys.
Here are my 2 cents:
1. Get hold of b-school rankings. Even if you might not agree with b-school rankings, but they still give you a good picture. Almost everyone here would know abt top 10 colleges but then there are other good colleges which you might not have heard abt. Rankings would help you get to know abt more colleges and give you an overall picture.
( do visit the businessweek rankings @ 2006 Full-Time Profiles This link has many details like admission stats/alumni comments/placement stats/teaching methodology etc)

2. Start shortlisting colleges on the basis of your priorities. Find out your dream schools, realistic schools and safe schools. Maintain a seperate excel for the list of your colleges. In my case, funding my MBA was a major constraint and I was not keen on taking a big loan for my MBA. So I decided not to apply to any of the top 10 programs. Please give a very serious thought on how you are going to fund your MBA while/before shortlisting your college. Consider the worst case scenario(no scholarship from school). It can be very frustrating when you find that you are unable to fund your MBA after getting an admit from a good school

3. Register on the websites of your shortlisted schools. Try to locate some alumni/current student of the college. They are the best people to get any info abt the college. Do keep a close watch on the deadlines of schools. Most schools update their sites for any changes in admission procedure around August/Sep. You must keep revisiting the sites atleast once a week for any changes. (i suffered because manchester b-school changed its deadlines.its initial 1st deadline was 2nd Dec but then later it was changed to mid-october and i could not apply on time).

4. Time your applications according to the deadlines and your priorities. You might want to apply to your dream schools in R1, realistic/safe schools in R2 etc.

5. Keep visiting PG for the latest info and updates

All the best
rahul

Last edited by itsrahul; 29-12-2006 at 01:13 PM.
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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans
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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans - 29-12-2006, 11:03 AM

Hi iday
i need your help. i am applying for wharton. i have done B.Tech electronics and comunication. Do I need to take the TOEFL?
THOUGH THEY HAVE SAID THAT YOU CAN WAIVE IT OFF . AND ADD ADDITIONAL LETTER . SHOUL I WAIVE OFF TOEFL?OR IT WILL AFFECT MY APPLICAITON?
   
Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans
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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans - 29-12-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastbombay View Post
Hi iday
i need your help. i am applying for wharton. i have done B.Tech electronics and comunication. Do I need to take the TOEFL?
THOUGH THEY HAVE SAID THAT YOU CAN WAIVE IT OFF . AND ADD ADDITIONAL LETTER . SHOUL I WAIVE OFF TOEFL?OR IT WILL AFFECT MY APPLICAITON?
Waive the TOEFL requirement.
It doesnt affect ur app one bit. Save some money dude - you'll need lots later
   
Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans
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Re: MBA Admissions - thread of gyans - 29-12-2006, 02:58 PM

So now that you have shortlisted your schools, get some GMAT advice from 'I' .

But until then lets assume that you have cleared your GMAT. Scored brilliantly and not been lazy like me .

Put the GMAT behind and welcome to the world of applications - of sleepless nights, versions and of hair pulling and soul searching

While this thread has already links to good essay advices, here are 2 cents on recommendations :

Who should recommend you ?

The answer to this you will find in your data gathering process for essay writing. While you are listing all your examples, ask your self "who can write more about this ? who can support this most enthusiastically " - Those are your recommenders. Initially the list might be long depending on the number of your jobs. Narrow it to fit your story

Your direct supervisor is the most preferred. School like their endorsements of your skills. Try this option first.

A Client / A supervior at community work would serve best for second position.

Essentially choose 2 people who can highlight different area of your personality. The application becomes more wholesome that way. your current and ex boss both recommending might end up highlighting the same skills. Choose people who fit best into your story. When schools ask for a peer recommendation consider a senior colleague.

Before requesting

Before you approach the recommender with a formal request, make some efforts and let your recommender know you well. If it your manager, client make sure you discuss a lot of things with them - what you want to do, movies, sports, politics etc.. It helps. Again this is not a must, its just an add on. The shades of this will appear in your recos.

Do not approach your recommender unless you have your school strategy in place. Analyze what all are you telling the school and what all should the recommenders say.
School have different essay topics and reco questions. Analyze the whole application before making notes for your recommender.Do not let reduncancy creep in.


Notes for recommender :

1.Write down all incidents that you want your recommenders to mention per question
Eg :
Strengths
A ( example a , example b)
B ( example a , example b)

so on.. for weaknesses, leadership and team work. Without examples/stories the recommmendation dies. Again these examples should be little different from the ones you are using in your essays. balance the reco with the 1, 2 examples from the essay and 3 -4 new examples.

2. Things about the school you are applying to.
What are the things that attract you to the school ? What are the strengths of your school
'Fit' with school when comes out in the essays and also slightly in your recos, creates a holistic image.

3. A very brief description of your short term and long term goals and why do you want them. why do you want an MBA ( ideally 1 to 2 page document in bullet points )

4. Word limits, deadlines, do's dont's for recommendations and sample recommendation

Follow up :

Keep in regular touch with your recommenders. Go over the recommendation that he/she has written. Discuss the examples. Basically brain storm the whole story with them. If they say that you spend ur free time in the Gym and you say that you spend your free time playing pool in the office- hmm , that's a crime. Try to be as honest as possible and encourage your recommenders to do so as well.

Coax him/her to have the reco reviewed for language ( my recommenders were cooperating enough to have them read by the technical writer. )

Finally,

The nuances of a manager's recommendation :

If your manager is one of your writers make sure he highlights all of personality, hobbies, interests and passion. He is supposed to know you extremely well.

If your manager is one recommender, make sure he writes a line or two about all you have done till date and how it helps in the formation of your long term goals / short term goal.

The nuances of a client's recommendation :

It should be very very business like and sharp and critical. No gaseous matter. If he knows your other recommender, persuade him to quote it in the how does he know you part of the reco. Cross-refrence has benefits.

Achievements and contributions should be quantified. 30%

It should be visible in every instance that he is writing as a client and so he cannot comment a lot on some aspects like say humour and extra curriculars. Keep such responses small and peripheral.


PS :
Actually inspired from a question on the Chicago thread. I thought it would fit here too.

Inblue

Last edited by inblue; 29-12-2006 at 03:40 PM. Reason: more sections added.
   
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