I am interested to know what thoughts other people have about what constitutes a good work-ex. In my case, I had a strong CS background (IIT Computer Science, 9+ GPA) and went into a very niche, small tech firm that was paying me a hell lot…
I am interested to know what thoughts other people have about what constitutes a good work-ex.
In my case, I had a strong CS background (IIT Computer Science, 9+ GPA) and went into a very niche, small tech firm that was paying me a hell lot. Two years hence, I have been handling technical architectural designs and being payed a lakh a month....
Now the point here is, while I am obviously doing great in my current role and also am valued a lot (going by my pay packet), does that necessarily constitute a great work experience from an MBA point of view ? After all, my leadership till date has all been technical leadership.
I can move towards more analytics and statistics from tech architecture if that is of any help.
I am looking to get into a top US business school in 2007 (with around 4 years of work-ex). My aim is schools like Stanford, MIT Sloan and UC, Berkely Haas (given my tech background). Is my school selection along the right lines ? Or should I be considering other schools like HBS as well ? Would aplying to a TierII B-School like CMU and UT-Austin be justified (in context of my current career and that I plan to fund my US education on loans) ?
I might add here that I haven't taken GMAT score but realistically expect a score of 720-780.
I am growing and happy in my present firm (which is not very well known for the simple reason that it is a very small, niche firm) and don't plan to switch, so I would have worked in a single firm for 4 years when I apply. Is that a disadvantage ? Or should I look for more well-known names in the tech-world like Microsoft and Google ? I am reasonably confident of getting into either if I try (obviously in a technical role).
Also, how would I be able to differentiate myself from all those techies out there in Bangalore ? I believe the complexity and challenge of my work has been exponentially higher than what would be in a traditional software company, but how do I bring that out in my essays ?
And if after all, all that matters is what you make out of your education, how about doing a quick one year MBA from ISB ? After all, the faculty (borrowed from Wharton and Kellogs) is known to be great there. I eventually plan to be working in India to be a part of its great growth-story (even though a few years in the USA would be welcome to pay off those 100K dollars of loan).
Lots of questions from
you-know-who
A Confused Soul.
In my case, I had a strong CS background (IIT Computer Science, 9+ GPA) and went into a very niche, small tech firm that was paying me a hell lot. Two years hence, I have been handling technical architectural designs and being payed a lakh a month....
Now the point here is, while I am obviously doing great in my current role and also am valued a lot (going by my pay packet), does that necessarily constitute a great work experience from an MBA point of view ? After all, my leadership till date has all been technical leadership.
Put it this way. How many people can claim credentials in their work experience ? Handling tech architecture and having a 12lakh p.a. pay packet with merely 2 years experience. Wow ! Many people (including moi) have not done that in their 5+yrs exp.
What is important is how well you have done whatever you have done. I would say in terms of IT you have a 10/10. Read this:
http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/mba/admission/admission_criteria.html
I can move towards more analytics and statistics from tech architecture if that is of any help.
Naah ! Don't change anything because the AdComm might view that as being favourable. Just do what you are passionate about and you should be doing good.
I am looking to get into a top US business school in 2007 (with around 4 years of work-ex). My aim is schools like Stanford, MIT Sloan and UC, Berkely Haas (given my tech background). Is my school selection along the right lines ? Or should I be considering other schools like HBS as well ? Would aplying to a TierII B-School like CMU and UT-Austin be justified (in context of my current career and that I plan to fund my US education on loans) ?
Good choice of colleges. See if you have entrepreneurship as your goal then even HBS and Stanford might help. Do research by going through each of the school's website. You have plenty of time.
CMU and UT-Austin as tierII ?
Not many people can afford being so arrogant. But looking at your profile you sure damn well can be !!
I might add here that I haven't taken GMAT score but realistically expect a score of 720-780.
Trust me. With your past academic achievements (possible IIT JEE AIR in top 100 and a CGPA of 9+ from IIT) you should definitely be in the reckoning for a 750 score.
I am growing and happy in my present firm (which is not very well known for the simple reason that it is a very small, niche firm) and don't plan to switch, so I would have worked in a single firm for 4 years when I apply. Is that a disadvantage ? Or should I look for more well-known names in the tech-world like Microsoft and Google ? I am reasonably confident of getting into either if I try (obviously in a technical role).
If you are happy and contended I would say don't even look at an MBA now. When the time comes you will take just a few months to get into the top Bschool.
MS is a big no-no in India. Google is a different beast all together. Apply there if *you* want to get in. Not because the AdComm will view it favourably. At the end of the day its all about how happy you will be not if it looks good on your resume.
Having said that, blue chip companies do give you a great brand equity. But that is not something you will terribly miss.
Also, how would I be able to differentiate myself from all those techies out there in Bangalore ? I believe the complexity and challenge of my work has been exponentially higher than what would be in a traditional software company, but how do I bring that out in my essays ?
As mentioned above, very few people would be in a position to claim stuff that you have done. Maybe a few things you can do is:
(a) Show evidence of superior communication skills. Maybe by writing a paper or giving a talk. Still better take on some role within your company which entails that - possibly client facing.
(b) International exposure. I dont know how much of it you have already done as part of your job role but still it helps.
(c) Show some community service. Again presuming you don't have any. Read the thread by the guy who got a Wharton admit. He didn't do anything outstanding. Something as simple as saving paper in your company can go a long way in showing your senstivity to the environment around you.
And if after all, all that matters is what you make out of your education, how about doing a quick one year MBA from ISB ? After all, the faculty (borrowed from Wharton and Kellogs) is known to be great there. I eventually plan to be working in India to be a part of its great growth-story (even though a few years in the USA would be welcome to pay off those 100K dollars of loan).
ISB is a great option too. But the fact is a HBS or an INSEAD is anyday better than an ISB in terms of a pure global brand equity. If nothing else. But if you want to eventually settle down in India, not a bad option either. I would advice you to visit the ISB campus someday and talk to current students. Like the president of their Entrepreneurship Club who is a PG-ite himself (arboreal_tarantula).
Hope this helps,
Arun
hey, thanks a lot for your reply. It was pretty helpful. You give me confidence :)
Btw, calling UT Austin and CMU Tier II was purely relative, when compared to HSB and Stan., they are great schools actually...
One more question I had.. Does everyone have to do an MBA to learn the "management" side of things ? I just want to do an MBA to learn the "business" side of things as opposed to management. To take the example of software (since thats where I come from), I am not interested in Project Management
Anyone ?
Also, anyone else has a different take on the above discussions in the previous posts ? You are most welcome to join us...
You-know-who
A Confused Soul
Certainly not. To realize this you just have to consider some of the most successful Indians, MN Mittlal did not need and MBA to create his huge empire neither (I think) did the late D Ambani.
You work in software. What about Nilekani for that matter Ramadorai ( TCS's CEO, although he did a 6 months leadership program at MIT) or another Mr Mittal famous for having his top employees travel in Mercs
Some people learn it through personal experiences, trial and error,reading, others from mentors and the rest by going to school .
I hope you get the drift and decide on your own which is the most suitable for you...
cheers!
________________
http://bbirds.blogspot.com
One more question I had.. Does everyone have to do an MBA to learn the "management" side of things ? I just want to do an MBA to learn the "business" side of things as opposed to management. To take the example of software (since thats where I come from), I am not interested in Project Management, but in things like, what makes the software valuable, can we track its value, how do we sell it, what to build in the first place and so on and so forth .....
Absolutely perfect excuse to do an MBA
And if you want to get into entrepreneurship the following would help:
(a) Networking
(b) Building your social skills. A lot more than what you might have got at IIT.
(c) Getting the international outlook. In 2 years flat thanks to being surrounded with unparalleled diversity.
(d) Brand equity of a H/W/S
(e) Tools and tricks. Obviously from some of the finest minds. Especially useful if you are so clear about what you want to do. Helps in picking the right electives and projects.
There you have it................6 reasons.......each one of them rock solid !!
There might be more, but you need to figure if you really need that to do an MBA.
Arun
An old techies reply to the orignal post.
It would be next to impossible for you to prove that the level of complexity of your work was greater than htta put in by other engineers. What you can try to prove is the following even as an engineer.
1) Responsibilities taken. This & change in designations is the only ways to prove growth inside a company.
2) Initiatives taken in the company.
3) Impact of your work in increasing companys health. e.g. the product U woked on now brings in a million dollar revenue., a process you created for Urself is not being followed by other people.
The easiest way of thinking about it is to imagine that you are applying for a mangers role in another company while being an engineer in Ur current company. U have to package Urself the same way for the MBA applications/interviews.
Aslo considering your background U can harp a bit on being an enterprenuar as U have worked in a smaller company.
-Amit
Hi confused_soul,
Here is some gyan from a 4 month veteran of the school search. I am also interested in High-tech entrepreneurial MBA courses.
1) Your job profile is awesome, combined with your Alma matter and high GPA, AdCom will be very comfortable in the fact that you can handle the rigour of an MBA from intellectual point of view.So no worries about that. just make sure that you cross the 720 boundary in GMAT.
2)Now the question comes how to distinguish yourself from the rest of the pile. Believe me even with your amazing job profile, there will be at least some candidates who will have the same strong job growth. So here comes the necessity to focus on your soft skills, leadership, initiative,personal traits.
3) From the horse's mouth, a alumni from Chicago GSB said it flatly during an meet in Infy in September last year: " I do not care how brilliant you are in your job, if you code 12 hours a day and then come back and only watch TV at night or in the weekend". they are looking for a balanced individual, people who are bigger picture pros and can walk into new situations and get the job done. But they are not looking for people who focus in one particular specialty and stay there. They become a very deep pro in one field. In many cases they may never understand the big picture but they can do deeper than anyone in their arena of expertise. So bottom line try to differentiate yourself from the rest. I see you mention Stanford, just have a look at their #1 essay this year, it should make things clear for you.
4) Beaware of the Fin Aid situtation, I am not sure even with your 1 Lakh INR/month, you can pay up 100K $$ for an US MBA. As far as I know only 2 Silicon Valley schools give loans without a co-signer or US credit history to an International applicant:Stanford and Marshall. No berklelly No Haas. Even UT Austin (McCombs) does not.
Thanks everybody for your response ! They definitely provide different perspectives...
Anyone else with a different perspective on what is a strong work experience and what isn't ?
Especially in the context of what I have heard about the Indian/IT/male combination and how its dreaded and the need to differentiate ?
All of us would love to hear both the techie and the non-techie perspective....
You-know-who
A Confused Soul
Well if you are worried that your work-ex /profile is not different or have limited leadership exp then you need to consider - Community Service.
Not only would it provide your profile/resume with something different but also (potentiall) give you avenues to displaydevelop your leadership/managerial/skill (besides showing that you are a compassionate soul.) Even if nothing happnes you could still take pride and satisfaction out of helping others....
http://bbirds.blogspot.com
heY I am workin in a small company wit 8 mounth exp plan for jan 2007 want 2 get in good b-school in US not a gr8 one . bcos i want 2 join my dads business after that so no point in spending 2 much on MBA. so plz can u help me find some uni with good marketing and entrepreneurship.
thanks
sleeper
:
pranjJ02 Says4) Beaware of the Fin Aid situtation, I am not sure even with your 1 Lakh INR/month, you can pay up 100K $$ for an US MBA. As far as I know only 2 Silicon Valley schools give loans without a co-signer or US credit history to an International applicant:Stanford and Marshall. No berkley No Haas. Even UT Austin (McCombs) does not.
Can you or anyone who's a veteran of school research please give me the list of the top 15 bschools in the US that have a guaranteed loan program for all admits without a cosigner who's a US citizen or Permanent Resident ans without a US Credit history ?
Thanks !
Confused_Soul
Like your profile.
As i see it
a) Get a good GMAT score 720+ . Preferably 740+
(beleive you me it counts in the indian IT pool , irrespective of who says what )
b) Work exp : Well your pay dose not count and will not impress It is not a factor per se.
a) How many people do you lead
b) International experience
c) What business impact are the software products you are churning out making.
e.g. automate manufacturing operations improving productivity by XX%. Not made software for abc.
If you can move towards a project management role (if you are not already) people reporting even functional is useful.
c) branding
IIT good will carry u on academics
small software shop might get you killed at H and S
S is a whole different approach they will evaluate your life . and i mean that.
Think leadership outside work
get involved in community
solidify your goals
start networking
all in all you have a shot but realy need to get after it starting now.
S 10%
H 10-15%
Berkeley 17%
sloan 20%
those are not your chances , but acceptance rates 😃 . can be done but you will have to eat sleep admissions simply because your in the most competitive pool in the world ( and your light on work exp re 3 years matriculation) but schools are moving towards that bracket.
Michigan/Duke etc i think you can make with half the effort needed for the above (still tough)
really its a weird crapshoot anything goes . research, essays and "touchy feely" stuff plays a big part .
The key is information (know the school, the program) and i do mean
I will join tennis club vs early morning jog through menlow park.
good luck go for it .
regards
Can you or anyone who's a veteran of school research please give me the list of the top 15 bschools in the US that have a guaranteed loan program for all admits without a cosigner who's a US citizen or Permanent Resident ans without a US Credit history ?
Thanks !
Confused_Soul
My suggestion, subscribe to businessweek.com, they have a very detailed view of each school program.
top of my head I can give u couple
1)W/H/S
2)Kellogg
3)MIT
4)Duke ?
5)Darden ?
6)Ross ?
7)Marshall USC
Here's my two cents on what constitues a gud work-ex...
Even tho ur in IT , u can still differentiate urself if ur job-profile involves a lot of design , estimation and analysis both technically and functionally,,,,
To do all the above u gotto be 5-6 experienced BA(biz analyst) or u gotto be as lucky as i am .....
so my advice would be get into the business side of the analysis and design ur doing...not just the tech part...
Further, if ur in the ERP area, its a silver lining ...
people , please pour ur views on the same....
my profile
2004 graduate BITS Pilani,
Infosys......acting BA for a AMEX project
Thnk a good domain knowledge in field whr u see ur self few yrs frm now.
Thanks everybody for your response ! They definitely provide different perspectives...
Anyone else with a different perspective on what is a strong work experience and what isn't ?
Especially in the context of what I have heard about the Indian/IT/male combination and how its dreaded and the need to differentiate ?
All of us would love to hear both the techie and the non-techie perspective....
You-know-who
A Confused Soul
Hey Confused Soul and everyone in the thread.
Let me give the non-techie perspective to this discussion, I work with and have worked with a BPO company (or another) for the last 6 years. I am now by virtue of my JD a Sr Manager in BPO Operations and by virtue of my experience and use a fixer.
I believe (and strongly so) that adcoms like HR recruitment teams in organisations have two standards for the candidates' profiles they look at:
1) the first is a documented gridlike set of qualities which are both published and talked about --these are usualy abstracts " intellectual vitality" " Demonstrated Leadership Potential" "personal qualitues and contributors"
2) the second is simple common sense and is not discussed openly, they are looking at "regular folks" "people like themselves" --- this is the adcoms' bias and at people who would definitely get employed post qualification-hate to have someone who will drop out midcourse.
With regards to the documented set of qualities i believe all of us would use the essays and the interview to pitch our claims -- my opinion; these are what in psychology is called self image projections on the interview board and there cannot be any differentiator here. Hence, i find the need to appear "regular" paramount along with a very strong future plan to join the workforce post MBA.
Now, what kind of work experience is strong- my opinion again- anything which shows Growth in terms of responsibility and knowledge; which means someone working on the same set of transactions thruout his workex would not be considered as having grown be that person a teller at the State Bank of India or a Cytologist working on a GM strain of Mushroom or a VLSI architect on the same project for the last 4 years-- but this dude can still modify his pitch (become a wildcard if need be) and hustle his way into the academic session.
Waise; considering a well rounded personality is in great demand .. mera meray techie bhaiyon sey anuroodh hai ki considering duniya mein itni saari IIT JEE applications hain or intey saarey institute ... why don't some of you all coach a bunch of needy IIT applicants for free--and then claim your being a pillar of community increase your social moral and intellectual responsibility and at the same time do some SUPW.
In my view strong work experience is that end of the day you feel contended with what you did. Everyday is a learning phase especially when you are out there in the field. So do your best and get the experience