ScoreTop VIP users in trouble ?

I am opening a new thread as this news has big impact on many who have used scoretop.com for VIP ( for 30 $ ) access. News from BW Shutting Down a GMAT Cheat Sheet News from GMAC Courts Give Graduate Management Admission Council D…

I am opening a new thread as this news has big impact on many who have used scoretop.com for VIP ( for 30 $ ) access.

News from BW

Shutting Down a GMAT Cheat Sheet

News from GMAC
Courts Give Graduate Management Admission Council Domain Name Ownership, Hard Drive in Copyright Infringement Suit

Also it reminds us the consequences of posting copyright materials.

GMAC has seized the ScoreTop site's domain name and shut down the site, and is analyzing a hard drive containing payment information. GMAC said any students found to have used the Scoretop site will have their test scores canceled, the schools that received them will be notified, and the student will not be permitted to take the test again. Since most top B-schools require the GMAT, the students will have little chance of enrolling. "This is illegal" said Judy Phair, GMAC's vice-president for communications. "We have a hard drive, and we're going to be analyzing it. If you used the site and paid your $30 to cheat, your scores will be canceled. They're in big trouble."

Ouch, this is going to hurt quite a lot of people .. just check out the traffic details for the site from Alexa:

Scoretop.com users come from these countries:
India69.0%
United States23.9%
United Kingdom2.3%
Singapore0.7%
Nicaragua0.3%

Wow, this looks serious to me. Hmm .... never heard of this site before......

Actually rumors of Scoretop being investigated for fraudulent practices has been around for quite some time (I had heard about it last year). GMAC has been doing a lot lately to crackdown on such websites and organizations that publish live and copyrighted GMAC questions. Apparently China and India figure in the top of their list (Please dont quote me on this, as the information is from unverified sources). China especially had many institutions that paid students to remember the GMAT questions and then these questions were taught and published by these institutions, I have heard that students from such classes did have their GMAT scores canceled.

Anyways, if someone took up the Scoretop VIP membership with the knowledge that they discuss live questions, which by common knowledge is illegal, then they had it coming. I have no sympathy for people who knowingly got involved in this scam, actually they deserve such action. For the people who were unknowingly part of this scam any action against them would be unfortunate.

Yes. Few months back scoreTop was ranked among Top 65k websites by alexa and most of the users are Indians. PG has rank of around 7 k ( Ahead of vault.com )

Ouch, this is going to hurt quite a lot of people .. just check out the traffic details for the site from Alexa:

Scoretop.com users come from these countries:
India69.0%
United States23.9%
United Kingdom2.3%
Singapore0.7%
Nicaragua0.3%

Wow, this looks serious to me. Hmm .... never heard of this site before......

What about those students who were only members of the site and not VIP members. There could be many students who just registered there and participated in discussions that were available to all.

i dono that they are posting real questions and the day before score top was shut down i paid for vip membership.. i dint get access to any materials there as it was closed the very next day ... and i havent discussed any of the questions there .... why i registered for VIP membership is .. when ever i entered a link it said the access is for only VIP member not for others.. so wat abt the ppl who jus joined the day b4 and for the ppl who became the member used all the resources and who were discussing ....

According to me cancelling of the scores who have been a member of scoretop either the vip or jus a member shd not be punished.. see it is the site which was used by ppl right frm 2003 .. do GMAC is going to cancel all the scores ???

suppose if the ppl who have accessed vip material and if he/ she has got into harvard or insead and if they had completed their MBA .. GMAC is going to seize their certificates ???

i heard frm my frnds that scoretop is being under watch by GMAC why dint GMAC dint make a statement in their site that accessing scoretop materials is illegal or somthing like that ..

if GMAC is going to punish the users or the VIP members ...who caught into this trap without knowing .. even every forum is understake
Even PG where we are discussing the OG questions which is again against the GMAC and its copyright act ... so are they going to ban all the ppl who are members of the yahoo groups and PG....

If GMAC is not keeping a watch on these sites how do ppl who have joined 3 days before know whether it is posting real gmat questions or not

i m still confused ... i m taking my gmat in another a month .. dono what is gona happen ...

A

if GMAC is going to punish the users or the VIP members ...who caught into this trap without knowing .. even every forum is understake
Even PG where we are discussing the OG questions which is again against the GMAC and its copyright act ... so are they going to ban all the ppl who are members of the yahoo groups and PG....

If GMAC is not keeping a watch on these sites how do ppl who have joined 3 days before know whether it is posting real gmat questions or not

i m still confused ... i m taking my gmat in another a month .. dono what is gona happen ...

Scoretop was actively encouraging live questions, which is what got them into soup.

On PG, you are simply not allowed to post copyrighted or confidential material and we don't support it because it is wrong to steal.

Read our caution notice - http://www.pagalguy.com/discussions/official-announcement-caution-notice-to-all-gmat-section-users-25032554

In case you have been posting copyrighted material on the PG forums, you are doing it at your own risk and PG will not protect you if a law enforcement agency contacts us to get your IP addresses. We will cooperate with them and give a record of every IP address you've been using. So go back and clean your act now and be careful in the future. Ignoring this message too will not help, you just have to clean up anything copyrighted you've posted by Editing Posts because all your past IP addresses are with us.
According to me cancelling of the scores who have been a member of scoretop either the vip or jus a member shd not be punished.. see it is the site which was used by ppl right frm 2003 .. do GMAC is going to cancel all the scores ???

suppose if the ppl who have accessed vip material and if he/ she has got into harvard or insead and if they had completed their MBA .. GMAC is going to seize their certificates ???

i heard frm my frnds that scoretop is being under watch by GMAC why dint GMAC dint make a statement in their site that accessing scoretop materials is illegal or somthing like that ..

if GMAC is going to punish the users or the VIP members ...who caught into this trap without knowing .. even every forum is understake
Even PG where we are discussing the OG questions which is again against the GMAC and its copyright act ... so are they going to ban all the ppl who are members of the yahoo groups and PG....

If GMAC is not keeping a watch on these sites how do ppl who have joined 3 days before know whether it is posting real gmat questions or not

i m still confused ... i m taking my gmat in another a month .. dono what is gona happen ...


Archana dont worry. I am sure GMAC wont behave erratically and just start canceling the GMAT scores of members of Scoretop. It is people who were involved in discussing "live" GMAT questions that are going to be in trouble.

Discussing OG questions is not illegal as they have been already released by the GMAC. What scoretop was doing is that they used to get students who have written the GMAT to reveal the questions they came across on the actual GMAT test and then used to discuss them on their forum (Similar tactics is used by many CAT prep companies in India). This is illegal as these questions are GMAC property and have not been made public yet by GMAC. If you were not involved in these discussions then you dont have to worry.

Regards

If you were not a VIP member, Dont worry. GMAC communication VP specifically has mentioned that paid members are in trouble.

viveksharma152 Says
What about those students who were only members of the site and not VIP members. There could be many students who just registered there and participated in discussions that were available to all.
Now it depends whether the hard drive seized by GMAC contained information about your VIP membership. I have obtained the 17 page GMAC complaint in Virginia Court and part of the evidence ( around 26 pages ) it used to sue scoreTop.com. I am not sure it is correct to upload here.
Background of the problem : Before 9/27/2006, scoreTop explicitly said that JJs are real questions. And if you see the debrief of scoreTop members who wrote GMAT in 2006, some said that they saw the scoretop questions in GMAT exam. Also some shared few questions they saw in exam in their debrief. But by late 2006 GMAC sued scoreTop and ( i think ) GMAC must have removed all the questions from sets from GMAT question pool.

Meanwhile scoreTop stopped the JJs and stated that questions of VIP section were not real ones but from GMAT tutors of scoreTop. But GMAC used debriefs of those who used JJs and questions posted in early 2006 and finally won the lawsuit.

I feel, Before canceling scores GMAC will collect credible evidence that cheating was done. So I dont think they will straight away cancel your score just because you have paid for the membership. But people who have posted debriefs are really in trouble. GMAC will have strong evidence against them.
In lawsuit, GMAC specifically mentions a debrief :
--------------------------------------------------------------------
For example, in a posting dated May 30, 2006, titled "The Wicked Sick
Guide to GMAT Domination,"h3adsh0t" stated that he had "slain the beast literally in its very lair," having taken the GMAT "in the testing center that's closest to the GMAC headquarters." He then offered the following advice to prospective...examinees:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
In sum, among VIP members below are surely in trouble,
1) Top posters
2) People who gave debriefs ( Usually these ppl give date and and place and score with split with which they can easily be identified )
3) VIPs Before late 2006.
I am not sure of fate of VIP members who joined after scoreTop cancelled JJs. Most badly affected will be those who are in B schools right now ( includes one who is in HBS now ; GMAC mentions his debrief ).
archanaiyyer Says
i dono that they are posting real questions and the day before score top was shut down i paid for vip membership.. i dint get access to any materials there as it was closed the very next day ... and i havent discussed any of the questions there .... why i registered for VIP membership is .. when ever i entered a link it said the access is for only VIP member not for others.. so wat abt the ppl who jus joined the day b4 and for the ppl who became the member used all the resources and who were discussing ....

I agree with you that there are lots of students who took VIP just because somebody said it was good. In this case, out of every 10 who will be punished, it is possible that 5 are innocents. I hope your score wont be cancelled.

What differentiates PG from scoreTop is that PG tries its best to avoid copyright violation. But scoreTop tried its best to violate copyrights.

According to me cancelling of the scores who have been a member of scoretop either the vip or jus a member shd not be punished.. see it is the site which was used by ppl right frm 2003 .. do GMAC is going to cancel all the scores ???

suppose if the ppl who have accessed vip material and if he/ she has got into harvard or insead and if they had completed their MBA .. GMAC is going to seize their certificates ???

i heard frm my frnds that scoretop is being under watch by GMAC why dint GMAC dint make a statement in their site that accessing scoretop materials is illegal or somthing like that ..

if GMAC is going to punish the users or the VIP members ...who caught into this trap without knowing .. even every forum is understake
Even PG where we are discussing the OG questions which is again against the GMAC and its copyright act ... so are they going to ban all the ppl who are members of the yahoo groups and PG....

If GMAC is not keeping a watch on these sites how do ppl who have joined 3 days before know whether it is posting real gmat questions or not

i m still confused ... i m taking my gmat in another a month .. dono what is gona happen ...

Hope this makes things a little more clearer.

Scoretop was actively encouraging live questions, which is what got them into soup.

On PG, you are simply not allowed to post copyrighted or confidential material and we don't support it because it is wrong to steal.

Read our caution notice - http://www.pagalguy.com/discussions/official-announcement-caution-notice-to-all-gmat-section-users-25032554

In case you have been posting copyrighted material on the PG forums, you are doing it at your own risk and PG will not protect you if a law enforcement agency contacts us to get your IP addresses. We will cooperate with them and give a record of every IP address you've been using. So go back and clean your act now and be careful in the future. Ignoring this message too will not help, you just have to clean up anything copyrighted you've posted by Editing Posts because all your past IP addresses are with us.


I request moderators to help users to understand what all does copyrighted material include. Yes material which you do not get without paying for, such as Princeton, Kaplan, Manhattan books and test, is clearly not allowed. But what about 1000 SC, 1000 RC and 1000 CR? If that is the case then I guess almost every person active in the GMAT section is guilty and pagalguy better provide users a tool to erase each one of their posts. Frankly no one has the time to go through each post to see if they had anytime posted any copyrighted material.

it is really frightening. as one of the puys mentions here, what about the people who accessed 1000rc/cr/sc? are they in for a rough time? maybe not now, but years down the line?

In my opinion, I doubt GMAC will take to task the folks who have used 1000 SC/RC/CR whatever. It wasn't clear if those folks were even aware of the legality of the questions. GMAC has taken offence to the fact that live questions were peddled on scoretop & folks knowingly took part in it by paying money - which kind of solidifies their intention of gaining access to those specific questions.

I would generally remove access to 1000SC/RC/CR, just to protect future users from even getting into a problem wherein they feel the need to go and find any more live questions.





mealiennothuman Says
I request moderators to help users to understand what all does copyrighted material include. Yes material which you do not get without paying for, such as Princeton, Kaplan, Manhattan books and test, is clearly not allowed. But what about 1000 SC, 1000 RC and 1000 CR? If that is the case then I guess almost every person active in the GMAT section is guilty and pagalguy better provide users a tool to erase each one of their posts. Frankly no one has the time to go through each post to see if they had anytime posted any copyrighted material.

An update on mba.com,

NEW! Freqently Asked Questions: Scoretop.com Web site

GMAT cheating scandal : Answers from GMAC
Getting In GMAT Cheating Scandal: Answers from GMAC - BusinessWeek

Hi Friends,

I was Scoretop VIP member last July i.e. July 2007 month. I received mail from GMAC which I am reproducing hereby:

----------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Subscriber,

The Graduate Management Admission Council (GMAC(R)) recently won a civil lawsuit in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia against the operator of the Web site www.scoretop.com. GMAC, the owner of the GMAT(R) exam, sued the operator for distributing copyrighted GMAT-related materials - including "live" GMAT questions - without GMAC?s permission through the Web site. As part of its efforts to collect on the court?s judgment, GMAC has seized various assets owned or controlled by the operator, including a computer hard drive containing subscriber information. We are writing to inform you that this information shows that you have purchased GMAT(R) study materials through VIP membership in www.scoretop.com.

Please be aware that the unauthorized distribution and use of our copyrighted material - including Guides, GMAT Prep(R) Software, GMAT(R) Focus, and purported ?real? GMAT(R) test questions - violates our policies and is illegal under the United States Copyright Act. Such violations can result in score cancellation, prohibition from testing again, notification to schools, and, in some instances, more formal legal remedies. Violations include selling, posting, purchasing, and discussing any copyrighted materials. GMAC(R) takes these actions seriously and continuously monitors Internet forums, Web sites and other venues where our copyrighted material is illegally sold and distributed.

Our initial focus in this investigation is on those who disclosed live questions on Scoretop. If, as part of this investigation we find compelling evidence that a test taker knowingly violated GMAC policy, we may cancel GMAT scores and notify schools.

Rules prohibiting improper or inadvertent access to test content, which test takers agree to when they register for the test, are described in the terms and conditions of the GMAT Information Bulletin. Test takers are reminded of their obligations and agree not to access or share test content in the Testing Rules & Agreement and the Non-Disclosure Agreement at the testing center. Any test preparation organization advertising "real GMAT items" is guilty of lying, stealing, or both. In preparing to take the GMAT test, you should steer clear of these organizations as they can be harmful to your future.

We are moving as quickly as possible, but we do not know how long our investigation will take. In the meantime, if you have any questions or would like to provide us with any information, please e-mail [email protected].

Sincerely,

The Graduate Management Admission Council (GMAC(R))
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as my interpretation goes, the language of the letter suggest these points:

1) The people who "disclosed live question" are in real trouble. This may be through discussion board or some other sources which GMAC should have access.

2) It's more of a cautioning letter. Hereby they are reminding the agreements and discouraging usage of any other source.

So, all in all, my suggestion to test takers is, don't take tension. Most of the victims are unaware of copyright laws and it will not be rationale for them to penalize just because someone subscribed to innocuous looking website.

With Regards,
Manuji Chaubey