Hello Everyone, I just got an admit from Rotman. Would love to connect with future classmates ! Please contribute to the thread. Thank you,Ankit
Hello Everyone,
I just got an admit from Rotman.
Would love to connect with future classmates !
Please contribute to the thread.
Thank you,
Ankit
congrats Ankit
a old post from UofTMBAGrad2014 gives an idea about Rotman to incoming students:-
Hey Guys,
I am a current Rotman student from the 2014 Batch from India. In the following post, I am NOT painting a “dooms-day” scenario but want my fellow course mates to be as realistic as possible before embarking on their MBA. This is going to be a LONG post, so please be patient J.
Based on my experiences so far, these are some of the things I've learnt – take it for what its worth.
(1) Don't come here if you want to escape the typical “IT” routine - Please. Come here if you're ready to work really hard to get a job you really want. Being stuck at a job that you don't like is way better than the realization of sinking thousands of dollars and not getting what you want. If you don't like your job – quit and join another firm. Its that simple!
(2) Networking is ALL-important – This cannot be emphasized enough. I thoroughly underestimated the importance of knowing the right people at the right time. The “hard work” I spoke about in point (1) includes a lot of networking and I was guilty of not networking at all during term 1. As an e.g., when I went for my first interview at a Bank, I was the ONLY candidate that the head of the recruiting team had not met earlier. The head recruiter knew all other candidates by their first names – and that's when I knew I wasn't making it, come what may!
(3) Plan finances keeping the “worst case” in mind – that includes no TA/Internship. It is not as “unthinkable” as you think! There are plenty of people who take up voluntary/unpaid internships either to gain relevant experience in a sector (for full time offers) or because they're still waiting for better opportunities. Even if you land up with an internship, I would highly recommend keeping the salary expectations near the 2000- 3000 CAD range and not as high as 4000 CAD. Either way – it is always better to plan for the worst and hope for the best
(4) Switching careers in the current job scene is extremely challenging –The economy here is not growing as fast as Rotman's batch size! If you've got 3-4 years of experience in IT and want to get into Front end Finance/Consulting, it is next to impossible. Multiple reasons – No relevant local experience, insufficient grade requirements, run-of-the-mill profiles etc. I don't know of too many Indians (or for that matter, International students) who have made the triple jump (Geography/Function/Industry). Keeping this in mind is crucial – having realistic expectations of the job scene here will keep you grounded and will save you a lot of stress and heart ache later
(5) Relevant experience is GOLD – As a corollary to point (4), the recruiters here value relevant experience very highly. So if you're someone with experience in retail or sales and marketing, make sure you apply to as many retail/sales and marketing roles as possible. I am not telling you to limit your ambitions of getting into another sector – but always have a plan B. Applying to a sector where you have relevant experience is your best bet at getting an internship or probably even a full time offer
(6) Sectors and Scope –
a. Finance: I would highly recommend Rotman to anyone who has solid and relevant work experience in Finance. It is a school that enjoys a good brand name in the financial circles and has a solid alumni network at most banks and financial institutions. However, I would recommend people with a finance background to come here with at least 1 level of CFA/FRM cleared prior to the MBA. While it may not make a huge difference, showing your interest in these charters adds credibility to your profile.
b. Consulting: For people interested in other sectors, esp. strategy consulting, I would recommend that you go to top US schools (except if you've worked at M/B/B earlier). They have far better consulting clubs and job opportunities than what Toronto/Rotman can offer. The situation is even more difficult for international students interested in consulting because recruiters like Accenture and ZS Associates require students to be Canadian citizens. There are a few roles available in IT stategy but I am not sure how many students want to get into it
c. Marketing/HR: Rotman is not particularly known for marketing roles. There are a few firms that come for marketing positions, but it is very helpful if you have prior marketing experience. It is not impossible to get a marketing role without prior experience, but it is an uphill task. HR is practically non-existent in my opinion (I would be happy if I am proven wrong)
(7) Importance of the GPA – As far as my personal experience with GPA is concerned, I felt I over estimated it. I did not make any time during the busy first term (before the internship season) to network and did my best to get a good GPA. Upper year students had always told me that apart from the front-end IB/S&T; jobs and top consulting firms, companies usually don't consider a candidate's GPA very important. My experience so far in the internship season suggests the same. Having a good GPA is definitely a plus – but it is not a deal breaker when it comes to getting an offer for most jobs
(8) Batch Size implications – In my honest opinion, getting a job would be more challenging now that the batch size is increasing in 2015. I will be humble enough to admit that I am not aware of all the nuances involved, but the number of job opportunities at Rotman this summer are not significantly different from the previous year when the batch size was smaller. The economy, like I said, is not churning out as many new jobs as required.
(9) Career Center – This is one aspect of Rotman with which I have been disappointed. I feel they can do a better job of bringing new job opportunities to campus but are not doing as well as they should. During my internship search, I found several opportunities on company websites that were never posted on the Rotman career page. Now if I can search those jobs with a simple google search, I am sure they can too. I sincerely feel that there needs to be a whole lot more accountability as far as the career center goes.
Seems like no one is applying this year from India. Last year the thread was full at this time.
Some observations based on research done on Rotman. It seems the high flying finance and consulting jobs for Rotman MBAs are 50 in number. In a class of 300 students, there will always be 25 student with good finance experience, these guys will get the Finance jobs. Similarly for Consulting. Now the remaining will have to find jobs elsewhere. Companies like to diversify and maintain relationship at number of schools.
The situation is better for Queen/Ivey MBA as far as Consulting is concerned as the number of students at each school is less than 100.
Comparing Rotman to US 20-50 ranked schools the situation is slightly different. Going to Rotman you can land those sexy Finance jobs at Scotiabank, TD Securities etc. So you can hit a Jackpot. The down side if you fail to get jobs in these roles then you are in a spot of bother. Whereas in US 50 ranked school say Simon/Purdue/Maryland Smith the chances of you getting a Front Office Finance roles at a reputed Bank is practically NIL. Having said that you can try various jobs at Tech Firms, Big 4 Advisory, Corporate Finance etc. So you have a greater chance at the less sexy jobs simply because the job market in US is big and diverse
hi ankit....were u a round 1 applicant???
@UofTMBAGrad2014 - A post written by @UofTMBAGrad2014 in Rotman 2015 page......I agree with this all, this provides a realistic point of view of Rotman............
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had written a post a few months back for the benefit of the community and in the past few months, my opinion has not changed one bit. Having been a student at Rotman for a couple of years now, I will NOT recommend this school to most Indians for the following reasons:
(1) ROI: For most schools in the U.S (even the top schools), you end up paying ~130-140 K (on average) in tuition Vs. 100k at Rotman. However, the opportunities, alumni connections and reputation for these top US schools are totally worth the extra investment and Rotman is NO WHERE compared to these schools in these parameters. In all fairness, the economic environment here in Canada totally sucks so I wouldn't entirely blame the school for its dismal placement rates and median salary. For e.g., when I was searching for an internship (for MBAs), there were a total of 120 odd opportunities in the whole of Canada while NYC alone had 10 times more (I know it may not be an entirely fair, but I guess you get the drift)
(2) Employer Attitudes: This is HUGE in my opinion and there are a couple of points I'd like to bring out here:
a. Employers are very CONSERVATIVE in Canada: Employers here want RELEVANT experience in whichever field you want to get into. For a great school like Kellogg/Booth etc., international students CAN get into strategy consulting if you work hard, get the grades and complete your case prep; but at a school like Rotman you CANNOT make it no matter what you do – case in point: no student from India in the current/previous batch has broken into Strategy Consulting thus far. In fact, I don't know if any Indian has EVER made it to these firms from Rotman. Also, there are plenty of people here who are struggling to find jobs in Marketing/Finance without prior experience. Employers here are just not ready to place their faith in someone who does well in interviews, has good grades and is a good all-round candidate if you lack relevant experience
b. Employers DON'T CARE if you're from Rotman: For most jobs (except for a few in Finance), employers just don't care if you're from Rotman/Ivey/Queens/Schulich as long as you've got the requisite skill sets. This “socialist” attitude which is pervasive across all Canadian employers of seeing everyone at par is a big disadvantage as seen from a student's perspective since you pay 100k at Rotman vs. 70k at a Schulich - so how does Rotman justify this differential? For e.g., I know of a case when I worked during the summer where a colleague of mine from Rotman (BSc, Msc, PhD., MBA) was earning lesser than an undergrad who had relevant marketing experience who was from Queens (1 Year experience)
(3) The Career Services is a shame – hardly any new employers are coming to Campus while the older, traditional recruiters are scaling back on the number of people being hired for each role. Frankly, the lesser said the better
(4) Leadership and Goals – This again is pretty big as far as I am concerned. I'll give you a small example – During a lunch with the Managing Director of the MBA program (which my friends attended), he said “I can vouch for the top 20% of the batch – they're really good. The rest are just cannon fodder”. Now with an MD of the MBA program saying things like this about the cohort that his admissions team admits, I cannot help but feel really sorry for the students who come to Rotman with big dreams. The goal of this school to become 400-500-600 strong in the near future is, in my opinion, not going to work out. This kind of a policy works in economies and markets like the US and China where there are jobs being created – it simply won't work in a tiny, regulated, conservative market like Canada.
Disclaimer: If you think I am some sort of a frustrated MBA who hasn't done well in the program, then let me tell the skeptics that I am a current student at Rotman from India with decent academics who received multiple Internships during the summer and fall and secured a full time offer in October. It is my intention to paint a realistic, truthful albeit painful picture prevalent at Rotman. I am more than ready to revisit anything I have said and even alter my opinion – provided I am given proof of why I am wrong.
--------------------------------------------------------
This information for the incoming batch of 2016. It highlights the obvious pitfalls and overblown warnings and various other idiosyncrasies that you may encounter during your time at Rotman especially during the first year.
1. July/August is the month of excitement. Everything looks perfect weather/ people/ course/ life…mind you this is all part of the big deception. You will meet successful students from the batch of 2015 who will share their success stories and talk/gloat about their hard work to reach where they are. You will meet all kind of people.
Types of seniors.
Angels: These are the guys who are genuinely interested to help you achieve your career goals. These students will talk less about themselves and ask you about your aspirations. You may find a few of these types but they act as great mentors so try and connect with such people if you ever meet one.
Patronizing Types: These guys are your foster parents. Even if you know what you want to do in life they won't let you go without sharing their feedback on your goals even if you haven't asked for it. They will tell you everything, right from where to get books from to buying groceries.
Free Loaders/I do not give a **** types: As the name suggests they have no interest whatsoever in your aspirations. These narcissistic jerks are just there for free food and booze.
Clubs
RFA: Rotman Finance Association. Hands down the biggest finance centric club in Rotman. These guys “claim” to represent the sell side job market in finance. From my experience they are only helpful if you are interested in IB & Sales and Trading. Beyond these two roles its pointless to expect any guidance from RFA.
RRMA: Rotman risk management association- these guys cover everything that's left by RFA and RAMA in finance. This club was more like a swiss army knife for our batch.
RAMA: Equity research jobs. They claim to represent buy side but buy side asset management jobs do not come to Rotman.
MCA: Consulting Jobs, they help in case preps for consulting interviews.
Club Competition:
All star teams do not necessarily make the best team. (do not have 4 investment bankers in an IB competition)
Competitions give you a strategic advantage over your peers in two ways.
It gives you a topic to talk about in your networking meetings.
It gives you visibility in an overcrowded market.
The same objectives can be achieved by other means you just have to be smart enough to time them right. In my batch there was no correlation between the guys who won competitions and the guys who interned at the sponsor companies.
Networking:
This is the word that you will end up hating the rest of your life as you have heard it so many times in 2014-2015. Networking is the most overemphasised topic in Rotman. If you are an international student the onus is on you to fabricate a network in your field that will help you secure interviews for internship.Since student interpret networking as the medium to ask for jobs the purpose is defeated. Networking is an informal “get to know the company” activity. If you are not curious about an organisation or a person's job role please don't meet him for the heck of it. You will probably minimize your chances. Rotman brand helps to secure networking interviews but you should make sure that you have sufficient curiosity to make the meeting a success. There are guys in Rotman that have secured Buy side jobs just by meeting people neither were they on deans list nor did they have any prev experience. They just kept their head up and made meaningful meetings with the right people to get where they wanted.
GPA:
Again, one of the most overblown job attribute in Rotman. Pls remember if you do not get a 3.7 for finance front office and 3.9 for consulting its not the end of the world. One of my frnds secured a mid office internship with a Canadian bank in feb after a week of intensive networking within the bank. He neither had a great GPA nor did he have a relevant background. You can always compensate your low GPA with aggressive networking in many cases.
Recruitment Cycle:
The most depressing time of your already miserable life. Everyone around you is being placed with plum postings if you are not part of the GPA group that gets to interview first…Jan will be very depressing as you will be in school in your jumper that has not been washed since it started to snow…. sipping coffee pondering if Rotman was the right decision while looking at your friends walking around in pinstripe suits ready for interview after 8:30 class. Word of advise… try to stay away from such an environment as much as possible if internship is very (financially) critical for your plans. Bunking couple of lectures and meeting recruiters won't hurt. Infact network aggressively. Bulk of recruitment happens in Feb and if you are not thinking straight that time, you may blow the only chance you get.
This is not a rant towards Rotman or the people that make Rotman the best Bschool in Canada. It is an earnest attempt to state the obvious that everyone knows but no one wishes to tell the incoming batch