It particularly comes down heavily on the PGPX program as being a distraction for IIMs. May be important for those considering PGPX as an option to get an insider’s viewpoints. Also, from what I heard, not everyone in the first PGPX was happy with…
It particularly comes down heavily on the PGPX program as being a distraction for IIMs. May be important for those considering PGPX as an option to get an insider's viewpoints. Also, from what I heard, not everyone in the first PGPX was happy with the placements.
http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/publications/data/2006-07-05rgupta.pdf
Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with an MBA. In fact, headed for MS in US. But, was considering an MBA at some point in time and just happened to bump into this paper while surfing the net.
It particularly comes down heavily on the PGPX program as being a distraction for IIMs. May be important for those considering PGPX as an option to get an insider's viewpoints. Also, from what I heard, not everyone in the first PGPX was happy with the placements.
http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/publications/data/2006-07-05rgupta.pdf
Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with an MBA. In fact, headed for MS in US. But, was considering an MBA at some point in time and just happened to bump into this paper while surfing the net.
Another imp point that prof is making is that the resources of IIMs are grossly underutilized and they shud increase their batch size. I concur with the prof as many great B-Schools have 800 strenght including Harvard, Wharton etc and I find the concerns on dilution of quality ridiculous...IIMs are the most competitive exams in the world for management. One concern of Prof has been addressed by increasing the fees of PGPX program which will remove the subsidy. But I feel PGPX caters to a very imp section of management , India requires mature ppl as managers not the freshers who have no idea abt real world management isssues
It is strange that even an IIMA prof feels that other programs like PGPX have "free ride" on the reputation of its flagship PGP program. That shows that PGPX will always be given step motherly treatment. If this is the thinking even within IIMA, what will other recruiters understand. They will know that the PGPX program will always be second fiddle to PGP.
I feel best is to do regular 2 yr MBA in IIMs or if you want to do a one year MBA, do it in ISB. Atleast there is no confusion in their minds what they stand for. Fresher - IIM, Experienced - ISB. I think it is clear. No confusion, great combination. 😃
How can u generalize institutes view/ treatment based on a prof's view?
Do you know the importance IIM's give to One Year - PGP in every area?
It particularly comes down heavily on the PGPX program as being a distraction for IIMs. May be important for those considering PGPX as an option to get an insider's viewpoints. Also, from what I heard, not everyone in the first PGPX was happy with the placements.
http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/publications/data/2006-07-05rgupta.pdf
Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with an MBA. In fact, headed for MS in US. But, was considering an MBA at some point in time and just happened to bump into this paper while surfing the net.
If IIM A PGPx is grossly subsidized why cant they increase the Fee. If it is worth taking ( as the author points out PGPx junta is getting the benifits of IIM brand name) People will join, right?.
Suvrat SaysBut I feel PGPX caters to a very imp section of management , India requires mature ppl as managers not the freshers who have no idea abt real world management isssues
That can be remedied by admitting them in the regular PGP program itself. And 2 years is till the predominant international norm. So 2 year course shouldn't be such a big issue.
One of the expectation of the PGP-X program was to see international students (as in Firangs) coming to India for their MBA, making IIMA truly global. But that has not happened so far. That is the cause for his mention of NRI software engineers. Nowadays even on exchange program, many NRIs have started coming to IIM-A. So instead of foriegners coming and enhancing IIM-A brand globally, the trend is more towards NRIs coming here to utilize the IIM-A brand in India.
Even if we don't take the opinion of a single prof as a stance of the institute, I feel that IIMs will find it very difficult to build a coherent brand which will encompass both the one year and two year programs. They are both based on such differing value propositions that in the long run, they will be forced to choose what they stand for. Name a single other b-school in the world which has two MBA programs for freshers and experienced people and has been successful in both simultaneously. In my opinion, it is simply impossible.
In my opinion, IIMs are caught in a big muddle -
Reservation or no reservation
More fees or less fees
More intake or same intake
2 yr or 1 yr
Experienced or freshers...
Classic case of competition threating your position and instilling doubts in your mind. Just like what Google is doing to Microsoft now 😃
In a changing environment, new models evolve. Successfull models adopt them. Leaders always take a lead in setting those trends. IIM's may be in the same phase.
Today our economy is booming so much so that, there is a short supply of skilled labor at entry level. Recruiting at entry level is one of the easiest in regards to skills and availability of freshers. If this is the case of freshers, think abt mid level managers, who lead these entry level.
These are people who are recruited years ago nurtured to take up mid level positions. Today every company is facing a short supply of mid level managers.
The only solution in the given context where opportunity costs are v high for taking up a 2 year MBA, 1 year MBA is solution.
Time only will tell us ... who is right
In a changing environment, new models evolve. Successfull models adopt them. Leaders always take a lead in setting those trends. IIM's may be in the same phase.
Today our economy is booming so much so that, there is a short supply of skilled labor at entry level. Recruiting at entry level is one of the easiest in regards to skills and availability of freshers. If this is the case of freshers, think abt mid level managers, who lead these entry level.
These are people who are recruited years ago nurtured to take up mid level positions. Today every company is facing a short supply of mid level managers.
The only solution in the given context where opportunity costs are v high for taking up a 2 year MBA, 1 year MBA is solution.
Time only will tell us ... who is right
Well, no one doubts the need for people at all levels.
But, will one school excel in providing both is the question? To use your own example, the market for both high end luxury and small cars in India is booming. But, does that mean that Mercedes will start producing a small car like Maruti.
My only point is i think no one disputes that IIMs are the no 1 program for freshers. Similarly, as far as No.1 position in one year program goes, it is unlikely that ISB will be dislodged. They are focused and their positioning is clear. If you are willing to settle for No.2, no arguments. The fight is for No.1. Thats the point.
Positioning of ISB and IIM's is totally different. Just look at the current batch profiles and admission criteria , u will figure it for Urself.
While the paper presents nice views and analysis, not every viewpoint seems reasonable. The view that sticking to the pgp program and selecting one in 250 is the only way to serve the country is not a school of thought I would subscribe to. Changing with the requirements of the times is a basic business principle taught in mba courses, and this applies to iims as well. Remember that the iims started pgpx when they found competition in their own backyard from isb. It would be incorrect to say that the iims never felt a bit threatened by isb. Also note how the success of the first batch of pgpx (well at least in placement figures.....time will tell the rest) has created a positive impression in the minds of appplicants today. Mba, as a course does not need to cater only to a few bright minds passed freshly out of iits/nits, but also to the experienced workers who need it the most and pgpx addresses this very well. Applicants who previously had no option of doing an mba in India, excepting going through cat and spending 2 years, can opt for courses like pgpx that have opened up many avenues for them. For the iims too, the profile of pgpx participants is more comparable to foreign b-school participants and I guess this is one of the reasons why iima went for pgpx - to break into the internation forum and make "iima" figure in the radars of the gmat taker in the US and europe. Give it time....and may be this too will happen !!!
It particularly comes down heavily on the PGPX program as being a distraction for IIMs. May be important for those considering PGPX as an option to get an insider's viewpoints. Also, from what I heard, not everyone in the first PGPX was happy with the placements.
http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/publications/data/2006-07-05rgupta.pdf
Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with an MBA. In fact, headed for MS in US. But, was considering an MBA at some point in time and just happened to bump into this paper while surfing the net.
I believe this thread is not another isb vs iim thing. This thread had a different discussion going. A quick look into the profiles and placement figures etc. of isb and iima pgpx will anyway tell you they are not even comparable. I agree isb was the first one year program in India and did well for itself. It would be unfair to even compare them currently.
Well, no one doubts the need for people at all levels.
But, will one school excel in providing both is the question? To use your own example, the market for both high end luxury and small cars in India is booming. But, does that mean that Mercedes will start producing a small car like Maruti.
My only point is i think no one disputes that IIMs are the no 1 program for freshers. Similarly, as far as No.1 position in one year program goes, it is unlikely that ISB will be dislodged. They are focused and their positioning is clear. If you are willing to settle for No.2, no arguments. The fight is for No.1. Thats the point.
While the paper presents nice views and analysis, not every viewpoint seems reasonable. The view that sticking to the pgp program and selecting one in 250 is the only way to serve the country is not a school of thought I would subscribe to. ...quote]
I think you have completely missed the point of the paper. Prof Gupta is in fact strongly arguing that IIMs become more inclusive rather than exclusive. He is infact suggesting that CAT should be made easier to allow candidates with weaker English and Math skills can also be considered. Where does he say "selecting one in 250 is the only way to serve the country"? That is YOUR concoction. What Prof Gupta finds contradictory is that IIMs on the one hand are saying that they are strapped for infrastructure and teaching resources and therefore can't admit more students, while on the other hand they seem be having enough to "pamper" PGPX students with luxurious rooms etc.
As you yourself admit, the decision to start PGPX was driven by the single factor which is competition from ISB. If ISB hadn't happened I can bet my ass that IIMs would NEVER have even comtemplated a PGPX. But, remember from the standpoint of the major stakeholders viz. govt and society at large, for whom Prof Gupta is acting as a representative, IIM v/s ISB is an absoulte non-issue. Therefore, he is not able to fathom why IIMs are spending so much money providing A/C rooms and foreign trips for PGPX students, while both me & you know that IIM is FORCED to do that because ISB is doing it.
SKP SaysWhile the paper presents nice views and analysis, not every viewpoint seems reasonable. The view that sticking to the pgp program and selecting one in 250 is the only way to serve the country is not a school of thought I would subscribe to. ...
I think you have completely missed the point of the paper. Prof Gupta is in fact strongly arguing that IIMs become more inclusive rather than exclusive. He is infact suggesting that CAT should be made easier to allow candidates with weaker English and Math skills can also be considered. Where does he say "selecting one in 250 is the only way to serve the country"? That is YOUR concoction. What Prof Gupta finds contradictory is that IIMs on the one hand are saying that they are strapped for infrastructure and teaching resources and therefore can't admit more students, while on the other hand they seem be having enough to "pamper" PGPX students with luxurious rooms etc.
As you yourself admit, the decision to start PGPX was driven by the single factor which is competition from ISB. If ISB hadn't happened I can bet my ass that IIMs would NEVER have even comtemplated a PGPX. But, remember from the standpoint of the major stakeholders viz. govt and society at large, for whom Prof Gupta is acting as a representative, IIM v/s ISB is an absoulte non-issue. Therefore, he is not able to fathom why IIMs are spending so much money providing A/C rooms and foreign trips for PGPX students, while both me & you know that IIM is FORCED to do that because ISB is doing it.
They have already increased the fees. Currently, Its double the fee of the first batch. Subsidy doesnt hold any more relevance in this context.
ajithsmiles SaysIf IIM A PGPx is grossly subsidized why cant they increase the Fee. If it is worth taking ( as the author points out PGPx junta is getting the benifits of IIM brand name) People will join, right?.
Is everyone at everyother school happy with their placements? Can it be measured?
End of the day we resort to aggregate placements figures which many found impressive.
It particularly comes down heavily on the PGPX program as being a distraction for IIMs. May be important for those considering PGPX as an option to get an insider's viewpoints. Also, from what I heard, not everyone in the first PGPX was happy with the placements.
http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/publications/data/2006-07-05rgupta.pdf
Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with an MBA. In fact, headed for MS in US. But, was considering an MBA at some point in time and just happened to bump into this paper while surfing the net.
I assume you will agree that the paper clearly suggests increasing seats for pgp programs is the primary route that iims should take. I was referring to that. If you object to my statement of the intake ratio as it stands, I take it back. Regarding IIMs spending on ac rooms for pgpx students, the paper(from july 2006) is not too relevant today after iima has inceased its pgpx fees to 10 lacs and then 14 lacs. Even after accounting for inflation, I guess pgpx is now paying for itself.
I think you have completely missed the point of the paper. Prof Gupta is in fact strongly arguing that IIMs become more inclusive rather than exclusive. He is infact suggesting that CAT should be made easier to allow candidates with weaker English and Math skills can also be considered. Where does he say "selecting one in 250 is the only way to serve the country"? That is YOUR concoction. What Prof Gupta finds contradictory is that IIMs on the one hand are saying that they are strapped for infrastructure and teaching resources and therefore can't admit more students, while on the other hand they seem be having enough to "pamper" PGPX students with luxurious rooms etc.
As you yourself admit, the decision to start PGPX was driven by the single factor which is competition from ISB. If ISB hadn't happened I can bet my ass that IIMs would NEVER have even comtemplated a PGPX. But, remember from the standpoint of the major stakeholders viz. govt and society at large, for whom Prof Gupta is acting as a representative, IIM v/s ISB is an absoulte non-issue. Therefore, he is not able to fathom why IIMs are spending so much money providing A/C rooms and foreign trips for PGPX students, while both me & you know that IIM is FORCED to do that because ISB is doing it.
SKP SaysRegarding IIMs spending on ac rooms for pgpx students, the paper(from july 2006) is not too relevant today after iima has inceased its pgpx fees to 10 lacs and then 14 lacs. Even after accounting for inflation, I guess pgpx is now paying for itself.
Did you check the date of publication of the article ? It is July, 2006. Keep this context in mind while evaluating statements made by the professor.