IIM’s and IIT’s are waaaay over rated because of pure demand supply mismatch and monopoly, you cannot have 10 -15 colleges for 1 billion people, it just does not work. This has made entrance exams like CAT, JEE, GATE have perceptions among common …
IIM's and IIT's are waaaay over rated because of pure demand supply mismatch and monopoly, you cannot have 10 -15 colleges for 1 billion people, it just does not work. This has made entrance exams like CAT, JEE, GATE have perceptions among common people like some life-changing-exam.
IMHO no 3 hour exam is life-changing / should be used to filter people on massive scale, I am sure lakhs of people equal to or more worthy of people studying at these colleges failed those exams. Because of this artificial demand, new industry popped up "coaching institutes" just to crack these exams. Anyway, point is the lack of institutes and huge population are causing this perception, case in point - kellogs starts ISB and look what happened..LoL..
Discuss..
IIM's and IIT's are waaaay over rated because of pure demand supply mismatch and monopoly, you cannot have 10 -15 colleges for 1 billion people, it just does not work. This has made entrance exams like CAT, JEE, GATE have perceptions among common people like some life-changing-exam.
IMHO no 3 hour exam is life-changing / should be used to filter people on massive scale, I am sure lakhs of people equal to or more worthy of people studying at these colleges failed those exams. Because of this artificial demand, new industry popped up "coaching institutes" just to crack these exams. Anyway, point is the lack of institutes and huge population are causing this perception, case in point - kellogs starts ISB and look what happened..LoL..
Discuss..
y such gyaan suddenly?
LOL..not that I had gnanoday..just putting a valid point..middle class ppl and common junta force their kids to treat these exams as some life / death for their kid, I believe its just education, have seen enough in world to know fate determines more in one's life
thinker999 SaysLOL..not that I had gnanoday..just putting a valid point..middle class ppl and common junta force their kids to treat these exams as some life / death for their kid, I believe its just education, have seen enough in world to know fate determines more in one's life
If someone is from middle class these exams are pretty important though not life breaking but certainly life making and I guess everyone in the present scenario is aware of this fact.:)
so if in india ppl are not studying from IIM . IITS or top10 b schools....den hw will build a fruitful n rewarding career....coz top notch companies cum der....top placements happen there..
so if nt there/..that is if not MBA...then what else shud 1 do to survive in fast paced competition....c today u ask evn MBBS/BDS//..dr wanna pursue MBA...so jus look at the competition..!!!!!!!
thinker999 SaysLOL..not that I had gnanoday..just putting a valid point..middle class ppl and common junta force their kids to treat these exams as some life / death for their kid, I believe its just education, have seen enough in world to know fate determines more in one's life
i dont think IIT's, IIM's or the other prestigious institutes are overrated.
mayurdhingra Saysi dont think IIT's, IIM's or the other prestigious institutes are overrated.
I feel the same.
It totally depends on u and ur approach towards life. IIMs, IITs and other prestigious institutes definitly provide us with good platform.
They provide ppl from middle class a chance to fulfill there dreams.
Competition will always be there, it is a hard fact of life.
I am not saying there is no quality in IIM / IIT, I am saying for a $1.8 trillion economy, with growth rate of 10% (second fastest on planet) and 1 billion ppl, having just 15 -20 institutes is horrible and pathetic, its not like India as a country is poor, people are poor but country is not. The lack of supply is causing heavy distortion in market.. just look at this USA with 30 cr ppl have more than 2000 universities and any thing in top 100 -150 is respectable. The government policy on lack of education spend is root of this
this thread is reminding me of half a dozen GD's which i faced from Feb-April this year and finally landed in FMS.
thinker999 SaysI am not saying there is no quality in IIM / IIT, I am saying for a $1.8 trillion economy, with growth rate of 10% (second fastest on planet) and 1 billion ppl, having just 15 -20 institutes is horrible and pathetic, its not like India as a country is poor, people are poor but country is not. The lack of supply is causing heavy distortion in market.. just look at this USA with 30 cr ppl have more than 2000 universities and any thing in top 100 -150 is respectable. The government policy on lack of education spend is root of this
you are sufficed with some briliant stats,& in some terms you are right.
but what else could we do,our representatives(politico polticians) not performing their respective duties well,say as in the case of education very few prestigious instis are out there in market seeing the demand
.
IIM's and IIT's are waaaay over rated because of pure demand supply mismatch and monopoly, you cannot have 10 -15 colleges for 1 billion people, it just does not work. This has made entrance exams like CAT, JEE, GATE have perceptions among common people like some life-changing-exam.
IMHO no 3 hour exam is life-changing / should be used to filter people on massive scale, I am sure lakhs of people equal to or more worthy of people studying at these colleges failed those exams. Because of this artificial demand, new industry popped up "coaching institutes" just to crack these exams. Anyway, point is the lack of institutes and huge population are causing this perception, case in point - kellogs starts ISB and look what happened..LoL..
Discuss..
What you've pointed out represents a classic perception of society on JEE/CAT. IIT's and similar institutes of national importance were set up with an idea of producing high quality manpower/researchers that could contribute positively to India and the world. However, over the years, JEE has become an exam a 12thee has to take because the neighbour's distant relative has secured an under 100 rank and has got a seat in IIT B and he's suddenly GOD! So, we all want to become GODs...Hence...JEE do sablog.
How many of these IIT appearing candidates really want to do engineering? How many of there IITians really take up relavant engineering jobs? Times have changed. IITs have remained the same. They're a class apart institute in the world. JEE is a class apart exam in the world. 3 hrs can change your life yes! The whole point of craking the exam is not just getting a seat in these institutes. The whole honesty and discipline you get in the course of preparation is an experience that will make anyone a success in any field he goes to.
The problem is with us. It's not with the institutes or the exam.
Coming to CAT. I can bet. and a very very honest bet...90% of CAT aspirants want a seat in IIM's because:-
1) They're not happy with their Job.
2) unsatisfactory pay.
3) Again...bragging rights.
This is the primary thing that drives us. They're not over rated. They're simple high quality institutes that give high quality education. If we expect unreasonable things from the institute, if we expect 50 LPA package after just getting a seat in IIM A, we're stupid and even if we get 50 LPA, our entire career path will still be based on wrong approach.
Demand supply problem...well it will always remain in India. There isn't any solution to it. and to assume that only a guy from IIT can make it big in society is absolutely flawed. If you have a closer look at any industry, you'll realize, you have to survive it and prove yourself. An IITian.....good for him...if he performs below par 2 yrs he'll be kicked out. It's a blatant fact. Any pvt engg collg guy can ace anything anytime. In the long run, it's your mettle that works. Not your college.
P.S - These exams are the best thing about Indian education system. Absolutely not overrated. And it has been an honour to write these tests. An experience to cherish for your lifetime.
P.S - These exams are the best thing about Indian education system. Absolutely not overrated. And it has been an honour to write these tests. An experience to cherish for your lifetime.
I completely second your opinion. The exams are not overrated and nor are the institutes.Not all of them(dont want to go into detailed discussion) but most of the top rated institutes are in places/ranks where they deserve to be.
The problem lies with us, ur thinking. Many of us think or are sometimes forced to think by our families/situations that these entrance exams are life changing. U secure a seat for urself and win half the battle of life.........this perception is wrong. A lot of struggle, a lot of thinking goes behind ones success in professional life and getting a seat in a top rated educational institute is just like putting a step in this direction. Again,i will say it is just a step and not the right step. Whether the step had been right or wrong will only be proved in the future to come. Many ppl from under rated educational institutes are doing well/better than their counterparts from top rated institutes( I am a 2007 Engg pass out from a good institute ,though nt top rated and hv the examples).
So to sum it up, the institutes are at the right place and they always justify their rating, the problem lies with our thinking which makes the entrance exams for these institutes life making or life breaking events. The entrance exams may be life making( again saying may be as u r to prove that only whn u step in the harsh professional world) but they are definitely not life breaking.
you are sufficed with some briliant stats,& in some terms you are right.
but what else could we do,our representatives(politico polticians) not performing their respective duties well,say as in the case of education very few prestigious instis are out there in market seeing the demand.
Its not right to blame others for everything.
Consider this, after passing out of these very good Institutes, how many of us will ready to give up high paying jobs and do something for the society.
I am not saying that what u r saying is wrong, but politicians are also ppl
and i am afraid in their position we might do the same.
If u dont agree then u shud do things which will speak for u.
What makes them lucrative is quality , there are 4000 b-schools , 3.5 lac seats ,every year 1 lac seats go empty ..
And IIMs are not responsible for increasing quality of other institutes , its on the other institutes to come up to their level.. which many have done but many others have failed to do ..
Its not right to blame others for everything.
Consider this, after passing out of these very good Institutes, how many of us will ready to give up high paying jobs and do something for the society.
I am not saying that what u r saying is wrong, but politicians are also ppl
and i am afraid in their position we might do the same.
If u dont agree then u shud do things which will speak for u.
see he generated the point regarding demand for gud collegs as to inculcate million of students.this is disasterous in case of our country.
you are afraid but i am sure if i wud have been their at politician's place i woud have done the same.
but still USA also did some brilliant job in its own freedom tym,we definitly lacked some way.but as in above post shivsundaram mentioned this demand supply is an unending problem in this country.the position will remain the same always
I think these institutions are a boon to Indian society and they motivate students to excel at studies.
What I dislike is the attitude of society towards students who fail to make it to these institutions, Top institutes have become a sort of benchmark for people to judge intelligence which is highly flawed. Just today morning while going through the daily, I came across various matrimonial solicitations seeking matches who are 'IAS/IIT/IIM' add that to the fact that the newspapers have been splashing photos of exam toppers on front pages with coaching institutions making high claims. We need to start looking at the bigger picture and stop looking at students in terms of pay packages.
"I am sure lakhs of people equal to or more worthy of people studying at these colleges failed those exams"
How do u define worthiness.
One eg. I bet there will be thousands of good actors in India, but only few get fame ans success...y.....
"IIM's and IIT's are waaaay over rated because of pure demand supply mismatch and monopoly, you cannot have 10 -15 colleges for 1 billion people, it just does not work."
If you find it overrated than y to apply for it. And there are many other less competitive exams for engineering and MBA...so go for it......
"new industry popped up "coaching institutes" just to crack these exams."
There are coaching institutes for each one of the competitive exams.....in medical, IAS etc...
"lack of institutes and huge population are causing this perception"
Make it lack of reputed institutes....else u will find many engg. and mba colleges in a city.......:)
IIM's and IIT's are waaaay over rated because of pure demand supply mismatch and monopoly, you cannot have 10 -15 colleges for 1 billion people, it just does not work. This has made entrance exams like CAT, JEE, GATE have perceptions among common people like some life-changing-exam.
IMHO no 3 hour exam is life-changing / should be used to filter people on massive scale, I am sure lakhs of people equal to or more worthy of people studying at these colleges failed those exams. Because of this artificial demand, new industry popped up "coaching institutes" just to crack these exams. Anyway, point is the lack of institutes and huge population are causing this perception, case in point - kellogs starts ISB and look what happened..LoL..
Discuss..
Before I jump into this pit, I would like to say that thinker999's point is misread since his headline seems wrong (I think).
I'll tell my opinion which links to his point I believe.
Let's be honest. Today anyone of us getting selected in any IIMs/IITs would be over the moon and would probably be ripping his pants off and why not, it is a matter of prestige, but why? Today, every parent dreams that his/her child gets into an IIMs/IITs if he/she wants to pursue MBA/Engineering.
IIMs/IITs has the best faculty who are masters in their fields and the minds that get selected are the best.....or is it?
thinker999 rightly pointed that 3 hours of maths, verbal and logic and later GD, PI and past academic records are not the ideal parameters of judging a mind. Who knows, a few factors might have hampered the past academic records of the entrance tests. I don't need to get into the details of these factors but you can guess them.
On the contrary though, what else would they do? They can't spend 6 months with every aspirant to judge him/her.
Every child who aspires to be an MBA/Engineer is put through rigorous stress by his parents, teachers, friends, relatives, neighbours, cats, dogs and who not to crack these tests with flying colours. Some students loose their interest, some loose patience, some loose their childhood and some loose their lives.
The problem is not with IIMs/IITs. The problem is with the lack of quality education outside IIMs/IITs. Today, if most institutes provide quality of education which is as close as practically possible to these 'best' institutes, then students won't be falling over each other to get into an IIM/IIT.
IIT takes pride when it says that only 1% of the aspiring students are selected in IITs. Another 15-20% might get selected in the institutes that are closer to IITs in terms of quality. That means the rest 80% are deprived of the 'best' and 'closest to the best' education. Don't these students have equal right to grow?
As I questioned earlier, that all those students getting selected in the IIMs/IITs are the only best minds available in India? A downright NO!
Umm...let me rephrase the question. Are all students of IIMs/IITs the 'best' minds in India? Most of them could be but certainly not all. Let me give you an example.
X student is interested in Marketing. Has great marketing, communication and persuasion skills (essentials for a good marketer), has an excellent past academic record but unfortunately he struggles in Maths. He passed with excellent percentiles in Verbal and Logic but got an average percentile in Maths. He didn't got a call from his 'Dream' institute.
Does that mean he was not amongst the upcoming best marketing minds in the country? Was he any less efficient than those students getting selected in Marketing in his dream institute? No. Was he better than them? Probably, yes. A 'genius' marketing mind was not selected because? MATHS!
Today, our country needs quality education in most institutes which comes closer to that of IIMs/IITs. If that happens then most minds will get excellent training in spite of not being in an IIM/IIT. Parents won't hound their children to sacrifice their life and turn into robots who are only programmed to study. It is rightly said that, "In India, education is a privilege and not a right"
If this happens (and can be made possible), then one day, there will be hundreds of IIMs/IITs in our country and a common mind can dream of getting higher education of high quality.
I'll tell my opinion which links to his point I believe.
Let's be honest. Today anyone of us getting selected in any IIMs/IITs would be over the moon and would probably be ripping his pants off and why not, it is a matter of prestige, but why? Today, every parent dreams that his/her child gets into an IIMs/IITs if he/she wants to pursue MBA/Engineering.
IIMs/IITs has the best faculty who are masters in their fields and the minds that get selected are the best.....or is it?
thinker999 rightly pointed that 3 hours of maths, verbal and logic and later GD, PI and past academic records are not the ideal parameters of judging a mind. Who knows, a few factors might have hampered the past academic records of the entrance tests. I don't need to get into the details of these factors but you can guess them.
On the contrary though, what else would they do? They can't spend 6 months with every aspirant to judge him/her.
Every child who aspires to be an MBA/Engineer is put through rigorous stress by his parents, teachers, friends, relatives, neighbours, cats, dogs and who not to crack these tests with flying colours. Some students loose their interest, some loose patience, some loose their childhood and some loose their lives.
The problem is not with IIMs/IITs. The problem is with the lack of quality education outside IIMs/IITs. Today, if most institutes provide quality of education which is as close as practically possible to these 'best' institutes, then students won't be falling over each other to get into an IIM/IIT.
IIT takes pride when it says that only 1% of the aspiring students are selected in IITs. Another 15-20% might get selected in the institutes that are closer to IITs in terms of quality. That means the rest 80% are deprived of the 'best' and 'closest to the best' education. Don't these students have equal right to grow?
As I questioned earlier, that all those students getting selected in the IIMs/IITs are the only best minds available in India? A downright NO!
Umm...let me rephrase the question. Are all students of IIMs/IITs the 'best' minds in India? Most of them could be but certainly not all. Let me give you an example.
X student is interested in Marketing. Has great marketing, communication and persuasion skills (essentials for a good marketer), has an excellent past academic record but unfortunately he struggles in Maths. He passed with excellent percentiles in Verbal and Logic but got an average percentile in Maths. He didn't got a call from his 'Dream' institute.
Does that mean he was not amongst the upcoming best marketing minds in the country? Was he any less efficient than those students getting selected in Marketing in his dream institute? No. Was he better than them? Probably, yes. A 'genius' marketing mind was not selected because? MATHS!
Today, our country needs quality education in most institutes which comes closer to that of IIMs/IITs. If that happens then most minds will get excellent training in spite of not being in an IIM/IIT. Parents won't hound their children to sacrifice their life and turn into robots who are only programmed to study. It is rightly said that, "In India, education is a privilege and not a right"
If this happens (and can be made possible), then one day, there will be hundreds of IIMs/IITs in our country and a common mind can dream of getting higher education of high quality.
I will like to add few points.....
1) The emphasis on the past academic record has increased since the inception of online test. If you go through paper based test on and before 2008 , you will find that the papers were tough to crack at that time. I remember people use to say if you score 33%, you will some good calls. The CAT paper score was given a lot of weight-age. I remember many of my IITB seniors getting through top IIMs despite of poor past academic record. Only IIMB use to give importance to acads at that time. After 2008, the online paper difficulty level has decreased, so how to differentiate between people with the all most same score.The best possible answer is to include the past acads record. I am not saying this is the best method to differentiate between people but to select candidates among lakhs would be good and an easy one.
2) If a student didn't clear JEE or CAT, it doesn't mean that is the end of life. All the people at senior level management position of a company are not IITians or IIMians. In my company (steel making giant) only 3 people among 50 are form IIT/IIM. Cracking IIT or IIM just provides opportunity in short term, while in long run it solely depends on your performance and caliber.