Hi Puys. My profile :- Indian Male/GMAT-640/6.0AWA/TOEFL-109/6yrs. IT ( 3.5 yrs. in U.S.A. for Fortune 5 client, good Project Mgmt. and Team Leadership exp. too) As the title of my post says, I have admits from :- 1. Thunderbird ( 25%…
Hi Puys.
My profile :- Indian Male/GMAT-640/6.0AWA/TOEFL-109/6yrs. IT ( 3.5 yrs. in U.S.A. for Fortune 5 client, good Project Mgmt. and Team Leadership exp. too)
As the title of my post says, I have admits from :-
1. Thunderbird ( 25% schol )
2. Eller
3. Sauder
4. Alberta ( defn some schol but not known yet )
My goal post-MBA is to get into IT Strategy Consulting. I would like to know your opinion / thoughts to get me out of this quandry.
Thanks.
Honestly (from whatever research I have done and/or whatever limited knowledge I have).
None of the school is especially highlighted for IT strategy or MIS or consulting. However US schools would be a better choice over Canadian ones (In my opinion), Canada might be cheaper but climate + limited consumer base would make it tad bit difficult to absorb international students as Sauder & Alberta doesnt exactly enjoy the reputation of Ivey or Rotman or Queen.
Eller & Thunderbird are more focused in Marketing, but I believe Strategy is stronger in T-Bird amongst the colleges you have mentioned.
Do take note of employement success ratio, average salary, cost occured etc while making your decision.
Thanks Ayonde.
But Eller is Top 5 MIS program in the U.S. after MIT, Tepper and Stanford. And that too consistently for years.
Thanks
@maverick
Eller might be a top MIS program, but i think Eller exactly doesnt resonate as a brand name (not that T-bird, Sauder , alberta does, ) but relatively speaking, I would put my faith in T- Bird.(I somehow believe that a T-bird MBA would be able to sell himself better post MBA)
Should you believe in rankings and place your faith in Financial Times 2010 rankings, observe the Career Progression and Placement Success rankings.
Eller is in 90s as far as Career Progression is concerend, Alberta is in 30s, T - bird at 42, Sauder at 70s.
And About Placements T-Bird at 70s, Eller in late 70s, rest in 80-90s. so guess decide carefully!
(oh by the way FT places Harvard at 44 for Career Progress!!!)
IMHO, try to find out about curriculum, electives, number of faculty in your area of interest having Ph.D or not, the company you wanna work for comes to that particular campus or not.
Hope it helps.
Ayon
Thanks Ayon.
These are good statistics that you have provided. Let me shed some light on this.
1. TBird - is a good brand name but there seems to be a lot of negativity about the program all around the web. I guess its too much for comfort. Its 'best' for IB and CSR but that's not the area I am looking to get into. ALso they have a big class size which I am not a huge fan of.
2. Alberta - Extreme weather conditions for around 5 months a year ( -15 to -25 temp.). Besides that, during my interview I placed a ques. to the director based on my research (and he agreed that I was right). Every year 75-80% of ALberta students get placed in Alberta itself (mostly Oil & Gas as Alberta is the hub ) and the school has tried hard to get out of that but hasn't been able to. It has become more like a regional Canada school. And with this kind of weather, I am not sure if I want to spend more time in ALberta. I might survive 2 yrs. of the program but after that, not sure.
3. Sauder - Good school but short and very very crazy hectic program of 15 months where they try and fit in everything including internship. For a non-accounting/business background students, by the time we get the concepts right, its time for placements, job-hunt etc etc. Furthermore, very similar issues as ALberta. Vancouver is a great place to live but not a financial or market hub of Canada ( as per the admission director in the interview ) and many people end up living in Vancouver itself which pays less. Finally, expensive city jacks up the prices of the program to close to 60K incl. living for 15 months. Tad higher I guess.
4. Eller - One thing that you will find on web is its repute in MIS program. No doubt. Infact it has a distinction of beng only such program which has been in top 5 since its inception and kind of aligns with my IT Strategy goals. Consistently ranked Top50 program in US by most of the rankings. They have great tie-ups with tech. corporations, reasonable fees ( ~30k per year ) ALso, Univ. of Arizona at Tucson is considered as 'Public Ivy' univ. ( one of 4 in Western states )
Over to you :-)
Thanks.
Hey Mav,
Probably you are right;
1) About T-bird there is too much negativity on the web, (this is from what I have heard, but the current students i am in touch with beg to differ)
-ves
Pathetic Administration that treats you like a piece of statstics, they merely acts as facilitator
Career Placement personals are no better
570 class size !!!!!! (even with 60% placed leaves a strong 200 to look for themselves) not to forget the competition!
IB - (this is my own opinion) I dont understand what IB is ? is it marketing + strategy + French & Spanish? or Finance + Consulting + job in Latin america...... or is it OB + operations + a plan to shift something from 1 country to another (like setting up a business or whatever)??
(a very personal take, i think its a marketing gimmick - of course i am a die hard pessimist)
Last but not least; relatively easy to get in, i checked the T-brid thread, never heard of a single reject, Business Week says Selectivity at 75%.....i read somewhere, the harder to get in, the better when you pass out.
Also (personal view) i guess with a class of 570 you need money (since you aint getting any aid from govt), so it doesnt really matter if you have 570 or 610 GMAT or 1-2 years or 10 years of work ex, You are in as long as you show the green.
As a pessimist i see the schols too as a boogy trap, i waive 25% so that you will join and pay 75% ...... I might be critized heavily for this from many corners but thats how i feel!!!
+ves
Its a Brand name, (or so I along with many other believe so). (again a personal view - being a pessimist, i would think of a situation when i dont get a job while i am in school; and i need to sell myself, that time i would use the marketing tools such as #1 in IB, for 14th consecutive years !!!!! ------ though i dont truly understand IB, but being Number Uno for 14 years must mean something!!!)
with a 570 strong student, you are bound to get ample companies with ample oppertunities, No company is gonna come and say i am gonna pick 2!!! (thats my personal opinion)
40% of class comprises of people with 1-2 or 3-4 years of work ex. with your profile, it should be easy competition (not in terms of academic, but when it comes to getting a job, you have worked in US, 6+ work ex etc)
I have every reason to put my faith in the assumption that, 40% unemployed at the end of program and 40% of people having less work ex, overlap greatly! (Again its the way i think, i might be completley wrong!)
About Alberta & Sauder
From what I have heard, good schools, If you are a Canadian, wanna work in Alberta / Vancover , cool
anything besides that ......I will have my reservations!
Again Easy to get in i guess, I am seeing Schols as boogy traps, Not very fond of cold winter (personal choice)
but most importantly, They are regional school, Vancover is a great city to live in, but to work there, i guess you need some french.
I read somewhere in PG itself, you can have an US MBA and work in Canada, but working in US with a Canadian MBA is bit tricky!
In My opinion,
1) talk with current 2nd year students, someone who have similar years of work ex as you have
2) Kinda let go Sauder / Alberta , decide between Eller & T-Bird
3) See what suits you best
I would suggest that with your profile (assuming Probability of Job is a direct function of Number of years of work ex) you shouldn't have a problem finding one (if that your primary motive of doing MBA)
If you want education, I would suggest talk to current International students in 2nd year, the reason i am bypassing Indian students is because, Indians from India will compare the school with a school (or education system) in India, and the US school (irrespective of Eller or T-Bird) will win hands down.
So ask someone who did his/her undergrad from US (e.g. a guy did his Undergrad at U of Texas and doing his MBA in U of Arizona).
And about the Public Ivy thing,......... my pessimist senses tells me that its again a marketing strategy!
I was heavily tilted towards William & Mary (2nd oldest school, public Ivy) - (though i got rejected) but then again Being a Public Ivy school simply means education is good, professors are good, doesnt necessarily increase your chances to get a job ........I read somewhere Eller emplyement rate is 48% , T - Bird (US News says 41% , BW says 71%, T-Bird 2009 emp report says 66%)
Also as i am a huge fan of Regression Analysis (Thanks to Freakonomics); I asked students (e.g. T-Bird) what the USP of T-bird, they told in Unison, " Global " (They tend to prefix Global everywhere), so i kept it as constant (neglected it) and then looked for qualities if it makes sense to go there.
E.g. If you ask a guy, whats Kellogg's strength and he says Marketing; you keep it as constant, even then it would make all the sense in the world to attend it.
so I suggest do the same with Eller.
P.S - How ever all this superficial gyan aint meant to confuse you up, ultimately, go where your heart lies..... It shouldn't be that after 10 years you are having a beer with your pals and thinking " man had i been to that other school, it would have been better"
As in Kaminey, Swami Fahid Kapoor says: "Watt isse nahi lagti ki aap kaunsa rasta lete ho, watt isse lagti hai ki aap kaunsa rasta chodte ho"
apologizes for Typos & sick Humour
:) Ayon
Wow..great analysis. I'll try and work around it.
I have last 3 yrs emp. reports from Eller career management center ( 3 months after grad. ) :- 85% (2007), 60% (2008, bad for int'l but I guess that was everywhere ), 65% (2009, much better than 2008 for int'l students )
Where are you headed to by the way ?
Where did you get the 2009 Eller employement report? the Eller website has 2008 employement report i guess!!
Oh by the way, i noticed that only 9.5 % students took MIS @ Eller, and their average Salary is mentioned at N/A (I am unable to understand why it's N/A, 9.5% is enough to find out an Average on Salary)
About me; I have 610 GMAT, 105 TOEFL, 2yrs 10 months work ex in Telecomm, and a Dozen rejects from everywhere, so I am not heading anywhere as of now :)
Good luck for your Future mate
Cheers!
Ayon
Hey Mav,
I don't know whats the motive behind chosing Sauder / Eller / T- Bird / Alberta. But if you are looking towards IT Strategy Consulting. Why not go towards Europe?
I know of a person who has 640 GMAT, 4 yrs of work ex and no international exposure, and he got an admit in IESE.
Hey Ayon.
Honestly, there wasn't any specific motive. I applied to UC Irvine, SMU COX and Kelly too but got rejected ( too much emphasis on GMAT, I wonder why they write that we look at the whole application. I wonder where my application was wrong apart from GMAT ). Still waiting on Purdue (Krannert) but don't know when it will come.
The motive was to study in U.S. ( quality education ) or Canada and look for schools in reasonable budget but still provide quality education and accept my profile ( basically FT100 ). Never put Europe on radar and I don't know why I didn't. May the post-MBA job scenario was the reason or less knowledge, I guess. SO I still have time to apply to IESE ? How good is it ?
You are right, I too applied at COX and Kelley, As i think that my work ex is very different than most IT - 9 to 5 desk job work ex (no offense) but yes at 610 GMAT , i needed an olympic gold or a black belt in karate or something to stand out!
I checked the Purdue thread too, people say that their admission commitee takes ages to reply.
About the budget thing, Suppose you get an admit at Harvard with no scholarship and an admit at Alberta with 100% scholarship, which one would you join?
Perform regression analysis and keep money as constant, then see the schools you wanna join. IESE is rated in top 10 in FT, top 5 outside US by Business Week, top 5 by QS, top by Eduniversal.
Also from whatever information I have gathered, EU colleges love work ex more than GMAT, try Manchester Bussiness School too, fill in their pre profile evaluation.
US schools are more into improve their rankings, they tend to increase their GMAT scores by 10 units on YoY basis (my assumptions no prove available), so they use Indian in particular as Statistics Building measures..... read my another pessimistic post at Vlerick thread.
With a good Work ex + 640 GMAT, you should make it to many EU schools, Cranfield, MBS, IESE, ESADE etc to name a few (anyway better than Alberta / Sauder if you ask me)
Hope it Helps
Ayon
Did you apply to TBird ? As you said that you have an un-conventional profile, you should be good to get into it.
I will try and look at IESE and fill their profile assessment to see if I fit and they still have seats. As far as U.K. is concerned, not interested. Reason is that I want to work abroad for some time to pay back the loan and U.K. is last or not at all on my list. Where do IESE/ESADE students get jobs by the way ? Do you genuinely think I have a good profile to fit in ? Did your friend had something extra in his/her profiel to make it to IESE ?
I didnt apply to Tbird, My research reveals that few colleges are tad bit easier to get in e.g. T-bird / Schulich etc. but T-bird will give you 25% school above 630 GMAT, and 50% schol above 700 GMAT, 75% schol above 750 GMAT.
at 610, I dont wanna empty my dad's PF account and mortgage our home to go to T-bird, and at mere 3 years of work ex, employement post MBA would be tad bit tough.
Also its quite a task to convince white causcasians that Hardcore Telecomm (I install mobile networks across states in India) is different from IT and IT - Telecomm software testing etc.
about IESE/ other EU schools, open any ranking site or their official site, they have a very impressive career statistics.
@your profile, i dont really know, Statistic wise you seem pretty well placed
Work ex > 6 - Check
GMAT 640 in mid 80% range - Check
International work ex - Check
Managerial Experience - Check (must be)
just dont screw up your essays, which i am sure no one does. try this year, write an email to them, you will be able to judge from their keeness in you. otherwise try next year :)
It seems that we are the only 2 persons replying to this post. However there were 80+ views i guess......people dont really jump in with their 2 cents i guess
anyways, time for dinner
Ayon
hi....i've 4+yrs wrk ex/Real Estate-Project Management/590 GMAT/5.5 AWA/TOEFL score awaited....do i stand a chance of getting in T-Bird? Im confident abt d interview part as I stand out frm d rest as far as the work profile is considered.......pls advise. I'll be applying for fall 2011 batch.
Regards,
You are right, I too applied at COX and Kelley, As i think that my work ex is very different than most IT - 9 to 5 desk job work ex (no offense) but yes at 610 GMAT , i needed an olympic gold or a black belt in karate or something to stand out!
I checked the Purdue thread too, people say that their admission commitee takes ages to reply.
About the budget thing, Suppose you get an admit at Harvard with no scholarship and an admit at Alberta with 100% scholarship, which one would you join?
Perform regression analysis and keep money as constant, then see the schools you wanna join. IESE is rated in top 10 in FT, top 5 outside US by Business Week, top 5 by QS, top by Eduniversal.
Also from whatever information I have gathered, EU colleges love work ex more than GMAT, try Manchester Bussiness School too, fill in their pre profile evaluation.
US schools are more into improve their rankings, they tend to increase their GMAT scores by 10 units on YoY basis (my assumptions no prove available), so they use Indian in particular as Statistics Building measures..... read my another pessimistic post at Vlerick thread.
With a good Work ex + 640 GMAT, you should make it to many EU schools, Cranfield, MBS, IESE, ESADE etc to name a few (anyway better than Alberta / Sauder if you ask me)
Hope it Helps
Ayon
@ Ayonde : hilariously interesting man...u definitely have some humorous ( or humongous!!) way of writing FACTS (which makes it imteresting though)..when u get thru some univ, forward me ur essays..would love to read them!!
Hey Superguy619 (619 Ray Mesterio?)
Nice Username, (at 710 GMAT you deserve to be a superguy :P) Thanks for your comments.
well my essays are just like my posts, humongous (had to search online dictionary for meaning) and basically lack an underlying theme.....so its rejects so far :)
anyways let me know which schools are at your crosshairs