Dark realities of us mba

Well i had to give this thread such a name to attract views. I want to spread a message like a fire in the jungle. Mods don’t get upset so i am attaching a note of caution: * P.S. The writer of this post is very frustrated with US MBA and is n…

Well i had to give this thread such a name to attract views. I want to spread a message like a fire in the jungle. Mods don't get upset so i am attaching a note of caution:

P.S. The writer of this post is very frustrated with US MBA and is neck deep in this "DALDAL". So the views may be biased highlighting only negative aspects of US MBA. So take these views with caution and exercise your own judgment after due diligence

@mods: please keep my identity secret for obvious reasons. Else delete this post and duniya goes to hell.
The subject matter of this post is top 30 USA MBA colleges
Ok, first let me burst some myths about quality of USA MBA. I will take each so called "strength" of USA MBA and talk about them. Here we go:
1) Diversity: Well no doubt in USA MBA classroom has a lot of diversity. So they contribute like what happens generally in their industry. I would say this is something that you can learn by even reading newspapers and some organizational hierarchy book on specific sectors.
2) Quality: Many people believe that USA MBA is rigorous. But to the disappointment of many it is nowhere near rigorous. In USA, all colleges have Monday to Thursdays routine only with each day having 2 classes only. Now some people would say class is not the way to learn. But I would say that this is the time profs. spend with students. So only two situations are possible. Either prof. teaches quality in that case he cant go too far or if prof. tries to go far he cant teach quality. This is because he is not giving enough time in class or it generally doesn't happen across USA. Why this is so will come later in this post.
3) Grade Inflation: While applying I bet many Indians would be looking for scholarships/loan combination to fund their mba. Well I also did that. Every scholarship/admission letter will contain a clause that if your GPA in any semester falls below 3.0 you will lose your scholarship. Now I don't know what to say whether this is something to cheer or not.

In USA u CANT CANT CANT LOSE SCHOLARSHIP. Why?
In USA, grade inflation is rampant. Grade inflation was started by none other than "Harvard" so that their graduates grab top jobs and others get nothing. They also got caught but before market criticism could dictate a reversal other schools adopted it. As a result recruiters now know grades are useless and so nobody cares about grades. This now applies not only to MBA but also to all other courses except PhD. So, in every MBA college it has now become a trend. Every college has a rule now that no professor can give the class an average grade of below 3.0. If the prof. has to do so he/she has to take dean's special permission which studies suggest gets rejected 99% of time. So, no prof. can give you below 3.0 and unless your gpa goes 3.0 below u cant lose scholarship. So in short u cant lose scholarship. Uske liye prof. ki m** bh** karni hogi. So everybody in usa doesn't study and parties day and night i.e daaru and se*. So if you want to make good friends you also have to socialize leaving you no room for studies.

I have a friend who god only knows somehow managed to pass an engineering in india but flunked in many courses. He came to usa for MS and scored a good GPA. He always used to boast to me about him being a bond, james bond, 007. Now I know the truth and he has stopped boasting about his james bondiness. So if you have such a friend slap the truth on his face.

To read more on this just google "Harvard grade inflation" u will get loads of articles.

Ok, I know above is not a concern for many, people come to usa for jobs only. So let me bust some myths/hearts of aspiring Indians here:
Biggest hurdle: Well the biggest hurdle in getting a job is an H1B visa. Well my knowledge of H1B visa is. It is given only when a company needs talent that it cant find urgently in USA. Then only USA govt. grants a visa. In USA, as I have said no one studies. Americans have stopped studying technical courses. In my univ. there are 128 PhD students out of which staggering 114 are Indians and Chinese. Americans only want masti, daaru and se*. But everybody including those Americans want to earn shit loads of money. So Americans are crazy after mba. Every 2nd American these days is now an mba.

These facts USA government knows i.e behavioral trends of Americans towards education. So for technical jobs companies can give H1B easily to outsiders as USA govt. knows that there is acute shortage of technical people. USA govt. also knows that there is no shortage of MBA's so sponsoring a visa to an MBA outsider is DAMN DAMN TOUGH. Thus to complete legal formalities companies have to hire a lawyer. For each person a lawyer charges arnd 12,000-15,000 USD. Yes such a hefty money basically exploiting a person and company. This is apart from visa fees. So add current visa fees which is around 7000 USD these days. So for one MBA company has to incur an extra expenditure of around 20000-22000 USD. There is no shortage of American mbas here Wharton has 1200 students Harvard has 800. So these two institutes alone produce 2000 american mbas. So that's y lawyer exploits people and companies for outsider mba job visa.

Many companies don't want to see themselves on wrong side of law and politics. So, many companies have a policy that they wont hire international MBA students. Yes many multi-billion dollar companies have such policies of not sponsoring visa or not hiring international mba students. Your career center people will say, when u land to respective colleges, that this is rubbish. Impress the company and they will sponsor visa. Let me tell u such policy decisions are taken at MD level so if u don't have an MD contact then whatever career center people say is nothing but banging ur head against the wall.

If you don't trust me, then write a mail to all schools u r applying to and ask them 2 questions:
1) How many companies visited on - campus last year for recruiting.
2) How many companies outright didn't allow international students. That is they didn't allow international students even to apply to their companies.

Reply to these two questions should clear all ur doubts. Most of you wouldn't disagree with me that on-campus jobs are the best way to have a job. But for us we have to contact alumini and "network" with them. That is why most schools don't have Friday classes so that you can travel and meet alumini and ask for help in jobs.
Now imagine u r a traditional Indian IT male, aspiring to do usa mba. You take a hefty loan and don't get a job in usa. Loan ka kya hoga?. What will be your life?.
Imagine Indian IT male doing mba so obviously poor chap doesn't have relevant consulting, finance, marketing etc. in short relevant business experience. Do u really think a company will spend extra 20000USD-22000USD for such a person. Don't blame recruiters. Put yourself in recruiter's shoes. Blame colleges for hiding truth. People with relevant experience do get INTERVIEW calls but they have to crack it really big time so that companies are ready to gamble extra 20,000-22,000 USD.
Yes, buddies even in top colleges people don't get internships. If you don't get internships you cant a job in USA. This is because companies hire internships more than what they are planning for full time next year. Best performers return to 2nd year in colleges wikth full time job offers in hands. So if you don't get good internships in first year, you are not getting a job in 2nd year for dead sure. By good I mean, international internships prolly developed countries. Indian experience these people never value.
So, another bomb now. Because of irrelevant experience many people don't even get INTERVIEW calls for jobs. Yes companies don't even INTERVIEW such people.
Caution: Don't do the blunder of taking above problem because of current recession. Trust me even in boom times people have struggled, returned empty handed who were deserving but couldn't get thru H1B law. This H1B visa problem for international students is a law problem and not a RECESSION/BOOM problem.

good insight!!

I admit to all these.These are REAL TRUTHS of a US MBA.Not all face these situations, yet the degree is increasing. Getting H1B is getting tougher. Getting slashed later on is also on rise.

neva knew that

I request all to not delete this thread... as I think the author has done a rare and brave thing...
To share the truth so that others dont suffer...

His post has a ring of desperation to it...

I urge the mods to keep this thread and as the author himself says let others "exercise their due diligence"


- Kudos

This thread can push US-MBA aspirants to research before going to US

I personally do not think that deleting this thread will achieve much in fact it will be foolish to delete it.The person has expressed his views and its totally upto you whether to follow it or not.He is just asking you to be cautious.

If you just do not go to US just because of this post then you might not be too bright yourself so better to stay here.

This is an open forum and everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.

My friend sent me this after I showed him the post :

YouTube - Arnold Schwarzenegger's 2010 Emory Commencement Address.

It's important sometimes to believe in your abilities..

Good luck.

@mods:Please dont reveal my identity else delete the posts for obvious reasons

dude first read the post clearly.

i clearly said for people with technical masters looking for jobs is not a headache there is an acute shortage of american technical talent. if u dont believe me take pains to search google. u will find some senators even saying that us should have a policy of giving green card to outsiders just right after completion of PhD. for MS also visa is not a problem. ur cousing did MS so situation is different.

i am talking abt. MBA.

there is no shortage of american MBA's here. so MBA intl. students irrespective of business cycle face problems. because H1B u get only when company "CANT FIND AN AMERICAN". no company wanna take that chance.
as govt., public knows there is no shortage of american MBA's

P:S My post was specific for mba degree only
Well i had to give this thread such a name to attract views. I want to spread a message like a fire in the jungle. Mods don't get upset so i am attaching a note of caution:

P.S. The writer of this post is very frustrated with US MBA and is neck deep in this "DALDAL". So the views may be biased highlighting only negative aspects of US MBA. So take these views with caution and exercise your own judgment after due diligence

hey chill dude how can we rely one you unless you reveal your identity or why is not your freind coming himself and saying all this.who knows you are cooking up tales.well even if its true but it doesnt happen with anybody and why to blame US B-schools or job market.and why do you expect US to give you degree and pay you for job when you are not US citizen and more than 50% people like you work there only to earn enough money to come back to home country to settle down,at present crisis any country will try to save its citizen's economic condition which they have suffered due to recession.yes situation is improving now.
my own cousin did MS from US when recession was at peak still got job yes pay package was less what was prior to recession but it was atleast enough to earn bread and living and other basic amenities only extra comforts was bit expensive.

dont generalise the individual case just because a guy from india not getting job all indians are at trouble and dont forget that the same indians due to lack of quality of work and transparency even in Indian companies prefer to work in west because work satisfaction as well as payment satisfaction is there

My request to Shashank Sir and other Mods to close this thread lest people will always have biased opinions about going abroad.

I think there is a lot of truth in it. As per the part he said Academic standards are relaxed in US its one big truth. I know a lot of people who werent able to pass any semester without a back in india scoring a 3+ GPA (out of 4) is some of the reputed universities in the US. This i think everybody will agree to.

Brave task indeed. It takes courage to acknowledge this. :thumbsup:

@mods:Please dont reveal my identity else delete the posts for obvious reasons

dude first read the post clearly.

i clearly said for people with technical masters looking for jobs is not a headache there is an acute shortage of american technical talent. if u dont believe me take pains to search google. u will find some senators even saying that us should have a policy of giving green card to outsiders just right after completion of PhD. for MS also visa is not a problem. ur cousing did MS so situation is different.

i am talking abt. MBA.

there is no shortage of american MBA's here. so MBA intl. students irrespective of business cycle face problems. because H1B u get only when company "CANT FIND AN AMERICAN". no company wanna take that chance.
as govt., public knows there is no shortage of american MBA's

thats quite obvious whats wrong in it US would give first prefernce to American citizen rather than international student seeking for H1B work visa,you cant expect American governement to let its citizens starve at the behest of international students seeking to work there through H1B .any country will look for the interest of its own citizens next comes for other international students.


I feel you are missing the point here.

There is probably nothing wrong with what the US govt is doing All the author of the thread is trying to do is protect the hordes of Indian students who reach US shores with starry eyes, thinking that they have it 'all in the bag'... He is Showing Them the REAL Picture
Well i had to give this thread such a name to attract views. I want to spread a message like a fire in the jungle. Mods don't get upset so i am attaching a note of caution:

P.S. The writer of this post is very frustrated with US MBA and is neck deep in this "DALDAL". So the views may be biased highlighting only negative aspects of US MBA. So take these views with caution and exercise your own judgment after due diligence

@mods: please keep my identity secret for obvious reasons. Else delete this post and duniya goes to hell.
The subject matter of this post is top 30 USA MBA colleges
Ok, first let me burst some myths about quality of USA MBA. I will take each so called strength of USA MBA and talk about them. Here we go:
1) Diversity: Well no doubt in USA MBA classroom has a lot of diversity. So they contribute like what happens generally in their industry. I would say this is something that you can learn by even reading newspapers and some organizational hierarchy book on specific sectors.
2) Quality: Many people believe that USA MBA is rigorous. But to the disappointment of many it is nowhere near rigorous. In USA, all colleges have Monday to Thursdays routine only with each day having 2 classes only. Now some people would say class is not the way to learn. But I would say that this is the time profs. spend with students. So only two situations are possible. Either prof. teaches quality in that case he cant go too far or if prof. tries to go far he cant teach quality. This is because he is not giving enough time in class or it generally doesnt happen across USA. Why this is so will come later in this post.
3) Grade Inflation: While applying I bet many Indians would be looking for scholarships/loan combination to fund their mba. Well I also did that. Every scholarship/admission letter will contain a clause that if your GPA in any semester falls below 3.0 you will lose your scholarship. Now I dont know what to say whether this is something to cheer or not.

In USA u CANT CANT CANT LOSE SCHOLARSHIP. Why?
In USA, grade inflation is rampant. Grade inflation was started by none other than Harvard so that their graduates grab top jobs and others get nothing. They also got caught but before market criticism could dictate a reversal other schools adopted it. As a result recruiters now know grades are useless and so nobody cares about grades. This now applies not only to MBA but also to all other courses except PhD. So, in every MBA college it has now become a trend. Every college has a rule now that no professor can give the class an average grade of below 3.0. If the prof. has to do so he/she has to take deans special permission which studies suggest gets rejected 99% of time. So, no prof. can give you below 3.0 and unless your gpa goes 3.0 below u cant lose scholarship. So in short u cant lose scholarship. Uske liye prof. ki m** bh** karni hogi. So everybody in usa doesnt study and parties day and night i.e daaru and se*. So if you want to make good friends you also have to socialize leaving you no room for studies.

I have a friend who god only knows somehow managed to pass an engineering in india but flunked in many courses. He came to usa for MS and scored a good GPA. He always used to boast to me about him being a bond, james bond, 007. Now I know the truth and he has stopped boasting about his james bondiness. So if you have such a friend slap the truth on his face.

To read more on this just google Harvard grade inflation u will get loads of articles.

Ok, I know above is not a concern for many, people come to usa for jobs only. So let me bust some myths/hearts of aspiring Indians here:
Biggest hurdle: Well the biggest hurdle in getting a job is an H1B visa. Well my knowledge of H1B visa is. It is given only when a company needs talent that it cant find urgently in USA. Then only USA govt. grants a visa. In USA, as I have said no one studies. Americans have stopped studying technical courses. In my univ. there are 128 PhD students out of which staggering 114 are Indians and Chinese. Americans only want masti, daaru and se*. But everybody including those Americans want to earn shit loads of money. So Americans are crazy after mba. Every 2nd American these days is now an mba.

These facts USA government knows i.e behavioral trends of Americans towards education. So for technical jobs companies can give H1B easily to outsiders as USA govt. knows that there is acute shortage of technical people. USA govt. also knows that there is no shortage of MBAs so sponsoring a visa to an MBA outsider is DAMN DAMN TOUGH. Thus to complete legal formalities companies have to hire a lawyer. For each person a lawyer charges arnd 12,000-15,000 USD. Yes such a hefty money basically exploiting a person and company. This is apart from visa fees. So add current visa fees which is around 7000 USD these days. So for one MBA company has to incur an extra expenditure of around 20000-22000 USD. There is no shortage of American mbas here Wharton has 1200 students Harvard has 800. So these two institutes alone produce 2000 american mbas. So thats y lawyer exploits people and companies for outsider mba job visa.

Many companies dont want to see themselves on wrong side of law and politics. So, many companies have a policy that they wont hire international MBA students. Yes many multi-billion dollar companies have such policies of not sponsoring visa or not hiring international mba students. Your career center people will say, when u land to respective colleges, that this is rubbish. Impress the company and they will sponsor visa. Let me tell u such policy decisions are taken at MD level so if u dont have an MD contact then whatever career center people say is nothing but banging ur head against the wall.

If you dont trust me, then write a mail to all schools u r applying to and ask them 2 questions:
1) How many companies visited on campus last year for recruiting.
2) How many companies outright didnt allow international students. That is they didnt allow international students even to apply to their companies.

Reply to these two questions should clear all ur doubts. Most of you wouldnt disagree with me that on-campus jobs are the best way to have a job. But for us we have to contact alumini and network with them. That is why most schools dont have Friday classes so that you can travel and meet alumini and ask for help in jobs.
Now imagine u r a traditional Indian IT male, aspiring to do usa mba. You take a hefty loan and dont get a job in usa. Loan ka kya hoga?. What will be your life?.
Imagine Indian IT male doing mba so obviously poor chap doesnt have relevant consulting, finance, marketing etc. in short relevant business experience. Do u really think a company will spend extra 20000USD-22000USD for such a person. Dont blame recruiters. Put yourself in recruiters shoes. Blame colleges for hiding truth. People with relevant experience do get INTERVIEW calls but they have to crack it really big time so that companies are ready to gamble extra 20,000-22,000 USD.
Yes, buddies even in top colleges people dont get internships. If you dont get internships you cant a job in USA. This is because companies hire internships more than what they are planning for full time next year. Best performers return to 2nd year in colleges wikth full time job offers in hands. So if you dont get good internships in first year, you are not getting a job in 2nd year for dead sure. By good I mean, international internships prolly developed countries. Indian experience these people never value.
So, another bomb now. Because of irrelevant experience many people dont even get INTERVIEW calls for jobs. Yes companies dont even INTERVIEW such people.
Caution: Dont do the blunder of taking above problem because of current recession. Trust me even in boom times people have struggled, returned empty handed who were deserving but couldnt get thru H1B law. This H1B visa problem for international students is a law problem and not a RECESSION/BOOM problem.


Dude.....u've admitted it yourself that u r a frustrated man......so it is obvious that ur judgment will be prejudiced! It is evident that your comments have languid, melancholic cynicism oozing out.

Don't mean to be discourteous but you seem to be a quitter! MBA is for those who do not let it get the better of them. If you cannot comprehend it then it will let off steam out of all possible orifices in your body

Also, you haven't highlighted anything new. Everyone who chooses to go abroad for Higher Education is well aware of the expenses they will incur and so try very hard to get scholarships.

MBA in the US is better than in India and the plus points about them are far greater than the minus ones. So get a life and don't influence people's opinions unnecessarily.

PS: Mods, plz close this thread. This guy is playing reverse psychology. I'm sure you understand what I mean.

Mods,

I don't think there is a need to delete this thread...I think this thread gives some insight to those who just "fancy" American MBA...Those who are clear with their goals and don't mind spending money ain't gonna get carried away with this thread...I wish more puys with US MBA contribute to this thread

I feel the old saying holds good: "stretch your leg only so long as your quilt". Unless one has a lot of wealth, one should try to have a cool head and be less ambitious.
A lot of ambition in an average person may take him to success but he may have to lose so many things.

Thanks man..... I really appreciate this post.... The facts u mentioned have been told to me before by several other friends of mine....
Also from ur writing i see u have been one of the worst affected indiaviduals.(At least it luks like)..... But take some positives... U are an MBA.... Im sure u can find a decent job for urself off campus as well..... I know bout guys who had a tough time but are now working wid companys like Texas Instruments and Sun Microsystems drawing unbelievable packages.....
I feel for cases lik u.... But the truth is many of us wud continue to venture into US and UK cause we have seen more positive results than not bro...... be positive and work hard.. that's the way up the ladder.....:cheerio:

I am not biased and I don't particularly agree with a lot of things mentioned in the post. My 2 cents

- If you want a profile change and a decent CHANCE of securing a job after MBA ( to repay those hefty loans), try getting into one of the top 10 B schools in US. When people say "Even graduates from Top B schools cant make it.."- Sorry guys , Either the MBA did not help you to groom yourself or you are not capable !. An MBA from a good school not just raise your merit, it gives you a membership for the priceless network of alums:thumbsup:

- If you belong to this cadre - "I want to do an MBA from US,not sure if I can make it to the top ones". Please check for schools with good specialization and try getting in there. Again, that gives you an advantage of securing a job at US and you can repay your loans somehow.:cheerio:

If you dont belong to either of the 2 groups, chances that you might end up jobless is more likely.

In life you have to take some calculated risks. Move out of your comfort zone. As Robin Sharma says "The Real risk lies in the risk less life". If you have the passion to do an MBA and believe that you can sell yourself after completing MBA, you can always find a way to survive.:thumbsup:

I have something to add to the post:

1.Diversity : - check out the next one. I dont buy this.

2.Quality: may be they are giving a chance to increase the diversity by reading newspapers and some organizational hierarchy book on specific sectors.Jokes apart, IMHO from UG to Phd, nothing is spoon-fed in US. When you are there for a management education - Attend classes, Find people, talk to them, build your network. Believe me, they don't recruit CEOs and CFOs by conducting interviews or even if they do, they wont be asking questions from books which talk about diversity. ITS ALL THROUGH CONTACTS !

3.Grade Inflation: You bet! I go with the author.:oops:

4.H1B - True. Its tough to find an employer who can offer one. Again, I want to stress the same point "If you dont belong to either of the 2 groups, chances that you might end up jobless is more likely":lookround:

If you have a clear vision on - Why MBA?,Why now? What am I going to be after MBA ? - two years is more than enough for you understand the market/ make you salable.:cheerio: If you don't know where you are going, better don't take the bus.

Stop cribbing and start working!:cheerio:

i agree with some pionts but most of them r just bull

ramboramji, that's the perfect answer to this thread... I would say you have provided a much broader and hence, correct picture of the subject...

Fully agree with your reply....

You can find detailed information about the placement statistics of all the Business Schools on this web site.

Business School Rankings and Profiles: EMBA, Executive Education, MBA, Part-time MBA, Distance MBA

That will enable you to make a good judgement about what your prospects are for getting a job and repaying your loan.

It looks like the placement statistics for the Top 10 MBA programs is quite good, so you will not have any difficulty in repaying your loan if you are able to get admission to a Top 10 MBA program.

But you MUST examine these placement statistics very closely BEFORE you take out a huge loan and put your house in India at risk.

Also, when you are looking at the placement statistics, it is safe to assume that most of the unemployed people are international students who need H1-B sponsorship. It is MUCH easier for an American citizen to get a job than an international student.

Please understand that an MBA alone will not catapult you to the position of an executive, immediately after graduation. The value of MBA comes from what it allows you to bring to the table at work.