Hi Babu
I have been reading all the good information and guidance provided by you and other valuable contributors of this thread. I have done PGDBM in Finance and to consolidate my position i have regd for the MS(Finance) course. I will be taking Alpha group exams in Oct.
Could you please send me alpha group papers or any group papers you have.
And, I would also, appreciate if you send me the ebook versions of Warrren Buffet books.
Thanks a lot
hello babu and tumtum
i need advise guys...
i graduated in 2006 bcom(hons) and worked for a year for a private company for a year...simultaneously prepared for cat,xat etc etc...right now pursuing mba from isbm kolkata...right now in first year....infact just started with classes..had hopes of getting into the creme da la creme but i guess destiny had something else in store...verbal pretty much screwed me in both cat and xat giving me 87 and 86 percentiles only...
now what i want to know is should i go along with ms finance along with mba..putting in long hours and studying wont be a problem for me...but i want to know that whether an mba from a decent college clubbed with ms finance from icfai could take me places..because i would obviously want my hard work to pay me rich dividends...i also have the international cfa thingi in sight but i guess it'd be premature on my part preparing for it right now as i want to take small steps towards building a career in finance...
i am interested in finance no doubt but have basic knowledge only,basically whatever i studies in commerce but still am interested to learn more,know more and pursue it seriously as a career...
can the ms finance along with mba be completed....i am not a superhuman but am prepared to work hard for it...
suggestions,tips and advise would be indeed appreciated
Hi Babu
I have been reading all the good information and guidance provided by you and other valuable contributors of this thread. I have done PGDBM in Finance and to consolidate my position i have regd for the MS(Finance) course. I will be taking Alpha group exams in Oct.
Could you please send me alpha group papers or any group papers you have.
And, I would also, appreciate if you send me the ebook versions of Warrren Buffet books.
Thanks a lot
This link will be helpful: 4shared - free file sharing and storage - share folder - CFA Papers
I deleted warren buffet e books. I did sended to many people long time back. I will ask some one to send it you if they have a copy.
Thanks.
hello babu and tumtum
i need advise guys...
i graduated in 2006 bcom(hons) and worked for a year for a private company for a year...simultaneously prepared for cat,xat etc etc...right now pursuing mba from isbm kolkata...right now in first year....infact just started with classes..had hopes of getting into the creme da la creme but i guess destiny had something else in store...verbal pretty much screwed me in both cat and xat giving me 87 and 86 percentiles only...
now what i want to know is should i go along with ms finance along with mba..putting in long hours and studying wont be a problem for me...but i want to know that whether an mba from a decent college clubbed with ms finance from icfai could take me places..because i would obviously want my hard work to pay me rich dividends...i also have the international cfa thingi in sight but i guess it'd be premature on my part preparing for it right now as i want to take small steps towards building a career in finance...
i am interested in finance no doubt but have basic knowledge only,basically whatever i studies in commerce but still am interested to learn more,know more and pursue it seriously as a career...
can the ms finance along with mba be completed....i am not a superhuman but am prepared to work hard for it...
suggestions,tips and advise would be indeed appreciated
Not easy to do ms finance + mba together. You can not finish ms finance in 2 years along with MBA. The best you can hope is to get CFA after 16 papers and that should help you with your placements. Ms finance is vast, lengthy and very broad. CFA as a professional qualification deals only with valuation part.
I certainly dont believing in dampening your mood and enthusiasm about being a CFA charter holder but frankly speaking, do you really think that you will be taken in at an analyst level in ER or IB with the new and modified CFA consisting of 16 really basic papers? I doubt..even if you will, you may not be able to get that kind of a profile which is needed to kick start your career and yoy may have to battle for a good long time to get a good placement and a good pay.
I have interacted with many people on this and the general consensus is that nearly all in the industry regard MS (Finance) as the main qualification (and not the new IU Tripura CFA program) as the superior of the 2 and irrespective of the designation, would prefer an MS (Finance) candidate rather than the Alpha + Beta + Gamma + Delta = CFA candidate.
Hence, irrespective of the fact that you may be able to finish the papers and get the designation after your name on the resume, you should fight till the finish and get the MS (Finance) degree because it is the baap of all. That program is far far exhaustive compared to the new CFA program and employers view it in a really good light.
I may have disheartened some by this post but the fact remains that irrespective of the controversy and irrespective of the CFA designation being granted in a new fashion, it is for all to see that the better of the 2 gets a welcome in most cases.
Forget the CFA designation and charter- go for MS (Finance) as that is the real course.
Does this mean the entire existance of CFA/MFA is meaningless and worthless ???
What about the people pursuing this course ??
Arif
Does this mean the entire existance of CFA/MFA is meaningless and worthless ???
What about the people pursuing this course ??
Arif
Arif.
Please read the opening line of my previous post that you have quoted.
I have very clearly stated that I dont intend to dampen anyones enthusiasm.
Hence, I dont intend to say that the new CFA is worthless or that people doing that have been duped or something. Not at all.
I am just stating a fact that the MS (Finance) is much broader and since it is older, it is more recognized than the new CFA program.
I dont think I am wrong to say that the investment community recognizes the MS (Finance) program more than the newbie program and arguably there are obvious reasons for it to do so! Some of the most compelling reasons are
o It has nearly 22 years of existence.
o It was touted as ICFAIs answer to AIMR originally.
o It included 32 papers earlier, which expanded to 36 later with the inclusion of Group Theta in exams schedule. This means it takes twice the effort to complete the MS (Finance) program compared to the current CFA program even if we assume a constant quality of examinations.
o It included case studies in investment analysis which were also graded and the grade factored into the final evaluations.
o Later on, ICFAI also started internships to fortify the program participants with industry knowledge.
o All this was noted by the industry experts and that is how the value of MS (Finance) program has risen steadily over the years.
Can the same be said of the new program? I guess the answer is NO.
This is all that I was stating. I have no intention of breaking anyones morale. On the contrary I have always supported various thread members by giving them correct advice.
Hope you take this in the right spirit.
well MFA is A PG degree... And Its New And not as much broder as Ms finance But Its Worth doing For those who really want to go for Equity/Stock.
And Again What matters Is knowdlge in the End. These degrees Can give to Start Buts its Ur knowldge And the experiance Which will Excel ur Carrier....
Ms Finance> MFA>CFA(After Delta)>Graduation
Its As simple as that...
Arif.
Please read the opening line of my previous post that you have quoted.
I have very clearly stated that I dont intend to dampen anyones enthusiasm.
Hence, I dont intend to say that the new CFA is worthless or that people doing that have been duped or something. Not at all.
I am just stating a fact that the MS (Finance) is much broader and since it is older, it is more recognized than the new CFA program.
I dont think I am wrong to say that the investment community recognizes the MS (Finance) program more than the newbie program and arguably there are obvious reasons for it to do so! Some of the most compelling reasons are
o It has nearly 22 years of existence.
o It was touted as ICFAIs answer to AIMR originally.
o It included 32 papers earlier, which expanded to 36 later with the inclusion of Group Theta in exams schedule. This means it takes twice the effort to complete the MS (Finance) program compared to the current CFA program even if we assume a constant quality of examinations.
o It included case studies in investment analysis which were also graded and the grade factored into the final evaluations.
o Later on, ICFAI also started internships to fortify the program participants with industry knowledge.
o All this was noted by the industry experts and that is how the value of MS (Finance) program has risen steadily over the years.
Can the same be said of the new program? I guess the answer is NO.
This is all that I was stating. I have no intention of breaking anyones morale. On the contrary I have always supported various thread members by giving them correct advice.
Hope you take this in the right spirit.
Thank you for all the deep insight and correct information
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I have been a member of this thread for almost one year and has found that every one including myself is confused about the course.
It is a very sad thing that we are so much confused and even then we have joined the course.
Is it worth doing such a rigorous course under such tremendous presssure and negative frame of mind? I think, No.
My sincere advice to all is that instead of ending up with high BP or any other phsycotic ailment, the best option will be to do an MBA from a reputed B-School or at the worst from a B - Grade School. At least this will give peace of mind.
What is the point in wasting so much efforts in doing CFA and that too with a doubt in mind. Instead of that, why not study hard for the entrance test and go for an MBA from a good B - School. Put 5 - 6 hours in test preparation instead of wasting them in CFA. As far as I am concerned, I can continue the course as I am working full time with a PSU Bank because of which Ful Time MBA is out of scope.
MBA can be completed in 2 years flat and you become employable the moment you complete the course and that too in the same profile a CFA/MS(Finance) gets.
Look, I am not against CFA/MS(Finance), infact I feel it is much superior to MBA coverage wise and reputation wise. But is it worth having such tensions throughout the course. I think No.
Please note that I am just expressing my views, so no fights/bad feelings, please.
Dear Ketan,
Getting into a good b-school is a challenge in itself. Its great to be optimistic but one would need to balance ambition and ability.
Take an extreme estimate of an intake 333 students(which I know is way off the mark) per institute among the top 15 institutes which would include symbiosis ands NMIMS that means a total intake of 5000 students out of some 200k aspirants. (obvious that most would be cumulative apllicants of cat).
And what is b-grade b-school? MET or Sydenham, Nirma and their kin. Just to let u know Cos come to these institutes to pick up sale people, period. I am not talking or taking a short in the dark but great Cos. like Kotak, Edelwiss and other huge brokerage houses and even several AMC's come to these 2nd rung institutes to pick up sales people, even if ur done finance.
I mean u spend 2 yrs of ur life doing and MBA and then get into an RM position, I mean what the hell is wrong with you? Why do an MBA and get into selling MF's, Brokerage products, acquiring HNI's, selling insurance and other retail products. I mean I have been competing with guys from MET and Somaiya and trust me most do'nt have an edge, so much for a b-grade school. (assuming no long run impact and initial salary package)
Yes, there ar cos like crisil, BA Continum that have come to MET and sydenham but have picked 2 or 3 students for research and other operations positions. So next time if u see someone from Nirma and MET having joined Edelwiss or for that matter HSBC securities, be warned he mostly(and I say this with some conviction) be into just selling of Financial products. I mean I have clinched positions for RM's without any post grad. Its just goes to show what pre-requisite skills one is looking forward to.
Lehman Brothers for ex in Mumbai has several f***ed position with decent packages and need MBA's for it but trust me I have seen those profiles and speak to anyone who has been into hardcore backoffice operations in equities and u 'll know that their experience will never be considered seriously. Its great to be associated with such a huge brand in te BPO space, down the line people have regretted cause ur learning is limited and ur scope is just restricted eventually to team operations rather than financial operations. People have joined cause of the pay but down the line many would regret and have regretted!!
Why do an MBA and become a SAP consultant? Yeah right I'm sure its been an ambition since childhood to a SAP consutlant after a BCOM+MBA! Mant guys find it real difficult to get into mutual fund accounting where a plain CA would do and know of some grads who have clinched these positions(obviously with a little luck).
I'd rather start as a dealer and work my way upwards than land up for retail sales after a freaking 2 yr course. So whats better 2 yrs of CFA with work -ex or MBA from B-GRADE?
I mean type CFA and MBA on job site. Why wouldn't u find one position for a CFA in sales and why several MBA-Finances into sales? The answers lie therein......Its obvious that the recruitment market isn't confused about the course.
I posted with the assumption of not having made it into a top b-school....
00000000000000000000000000
Vinit, you have got wrong information, companies have positions for equity/research/finance positions for MBAs from A as well as B-Grade Schools. Look there aren't many CFAs as well as Top B - School MBAs in the country and hence obviously MBAs from B - Grade Schools are recruited in these profiles. You can have a first hand experience by searching research jobs on job sites, you will find that they are looking for MBAs/CAs. If all MBAs were inducted for marketing then there would have been only one specialisation i.e. Marketing.
Mind you, MS(Finance) is ten times tougher than these tests.
Please update yourself and then comment.
I'm not sure if I like the last comment but would look beyond it neverthless.. and kindly do'nt question awareness cause it would be very subjective. I'll defend my want to get into operations leading to research later, if warranted.
I did not state that the value of doing and MBA from B-grade and its relevance in order to clinch positions in research is non-existent. There is a larger point which u may not be aware of.
First please define what a B-grade bschool is, is it NMIMS or sydenham. If sydenham then kindly check the positions that have been recruited by cos. from collegdes like Sydenham and MET.
I have friends that have graduated from both colledges and have several offer for sales that is MF's and HNI Aquisition. They slog it out 16 hrs a day Yes there are positions for which hardcore equity research has been offered but very few. Last I know in MET as 12. Cos like BA, edelweiss, crisil, kotak securities and then the other BPO/KPO processes like Netscribes and Integron and nowadays its gridstone research- headed by Basab Pradhan ex head of infosys.
The point here is to limit ur self to just an MBA from B-grade institues(defination of which needs to be clarIfied) is wrong if ur clear about research.
If ur among those who are confident to get into the 10 odd positions that come to Somaiya and Chetna for hardcore research and operations which includes MF accounting then great!!! Else please be informed that initial perceptions/offers would be in sales.Period. If u still insist on contesting this point I'm sorry, its just lack of awareness of what is a larger tendancy/proportion of jobs that are offered to people from so called b-schools even if u've graduated in finance.
I m not saying that doing an MBA from these institues isn't worth it but it cannot define ur prospects at all again I repeat if one is clear about moving into research.
Don't believe me... go check with consultants and people/consultants who are actually in the recruitment process as they would know better about the industry and also to people in operations who have several cases of MBA doing CFA not just cause of value addition but the elasticity of getting into hardcore reserach.
My view is not my pre-concived notion but a consitent strain of thought that has been presented to me by several individuals who have spent yrs in the securities business, if there is a suspicion of my view in terms of its credibility. Still don't believe, the most credible person here is Tumtum aka Manan. Obviously he wouldn't state his disappointment about NMIMS and SP Jain's courses and is not stupid to consistently be a motivation in working towards the CFA programmes. He is from the industry and knows what he shares or has shared with me,( unless moi taken anything in the wrong sense).
To cut a long story short, if getting into a b-grade school is something that is suggested out of doubt about the CFA course then its inappropriate. If one believes getting into research from Sydenham is something he is confident about then hell with CFA. Else doing an MBA at the cost/expense of CFA to get into research, best of luck!
Views are personal with no intention to comment on anyone's credibility to opine or share his thoughts and do acknolwedge to have the flexibility in order to reform/refine my stated opinion
Forget it guys !
This Ketan has earlier also mentioned comparing himself with B-Grade MBAs. I think he has made up his mind that he is no more worth than a second-grade MBA. Its ingrained into his psyche and we can not do anything about it. Till now I have repeatedly told him to concentrate on studies and he also tells me that he is doing the same but I think he has these bouts of despair when he feels that his life is worthless even if he gets this degree.
Frankly speaking, what can we do? Nothing. It is he who has to fight with the ghosts of his imagination. I don't think the forum members should take his "thoughts in despair" into account.
Keep studying guys, you will surely be rewarded.
@ Vinit:
I could not agree more with you on your ideas buddy ! You are getting the tricks of the trade!
@ Ketan:
Dude, if you think so bad about the course, what were you doing eariler? Why did you not have the guts to go for an MBA from a B-Grade b-school?
Stop breaking the morale of other members !
This Ketan has earlier also mentioned comparing himself with B-Grade MBAs. I think he has made up his mind that he is no more worth than a second-grade MBA. Its ingrained into his psyche and we can not do anything about it. Till now I have repeatedly told him to concentrate on studies and he also tells me that he is doing the same but I think he has these bouts of despair when he feels that his life is worthless even if he gets this degree.
Frankly speaking, what can we do? Nothing. It is he who has to fight with the ghosts of his imagination. I don't think the forum members should take his "thoughts in despair" into account.
Keep studying guys, you will surely be rewarded.
@ Vinit:
I could not agree more with you on your ideas buddy ! You are getting the tricks of the trade!
@ Ketan:
Dude, if you think so bad about the course, what were you doing eariler? Why did you not have the guts to go for an MBA from a B-Grade b-school?
Stop breaking the morale of other members !
It is a very sad thing that we are so much confused and even then we have joined the course.
Is it worth doing such a rigorous course under such tremendous presssure and negative frame of mind? I think, No.
Look dude, you are choosing to have a negative frame of mind. Is it the fault of the course?
My sincere advice to all is that instead of ending up with high BP or any other phsycotic ailment, the best option will be to do an MBA from a reputed B-School or at the worst from a B - Grade School. At least this will give peace of mind.
High BP---- I think you are that kind of a person who is attuned to such diseases. Believe me Ketan, its got a lot to do with your mind, which seems not to be in its right place as of now.
If you so much feel that an MBA is the solution, then why didnt you do it before? Where was all the wisdom gone? Frankly speaking, you are not even fit for an MBA from a B-grade B-school.you dont have it in yourself dear !
What is the point in wasting so much efforts in doing CFA and that too with a doubt in mind. Instead of that, why not study hard for the entrance test and go for an MBA from a good B - School. Put 5 - 6 hours in test preparation instead of wasting them in CFA. As far as I am concerned, I can continue the course as I am working full time with a PSU Bank because of which Ful Time MBA is out of scope. Look, I am not against CFA/MS(Finance)
Waste efforts: Do you even know what you are talking dude? Do you mean to say that those who are studying are wasting their time? If yes then how the hell can you say that you are not against this course?
Please note that I am just expressing my views, so no fights/bad feelings, please.
Keep your views to yourself Ketan. We dont need them in this forum. You cannot blame the course for your own failures in life! Its high time you realize this dude. You are living life like a loser and acting as a kid. GROW UP !
I had told in the beginning that its better that you leave the course. I think you should do it now. You wont be able to take any more pressures. You are not made for it and frankly speaking, you should not aim for much in life if you have such a losers attitude.
Hope this gets through your head.
Hi All,
Just so that all of you know, one of my friends (also a CFA from ICFAI) has been called for an interview at Irevna (Irevna is now a part of CRISIL). This should leave no scope for doubt about where this program could take you.
~ Hindolam
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ketan141979 SaysYou got me wrong. I never felt bad about the course.
Well, the advice that you are dishing out to others says exactly opposite about your thoughts. Go and read your posts once again with a calm mind.
ketan141979 SaysWhat do you think TumTum, are you the only intelligent person on this forum?
Did I say so in any of my posts? Why do you begin inferring things at the drop of the hat?
ketan141979 SaysTime and again I have observed that whenever a single doubting word is uttered about ICFAI, you get hysteric, why? do we need to speak as per your wishes only?
Hysteric? Lol..do you know whats the meaning of this word buddy? Tell me, who gets hysteric when he is not earning more, who gets hysteric when his cousin earns more, who gets hysteric when CFA Institute ads appear in the newspapers, who gets hysteric when the name of the degree is likely to change from MS to MSc ? Please exorcise the ghosts of your past before pointing a finger at anyone else!
ketan141979 SaysI don't understand why you get everything wrong? Please try to understand what a person means to say?
Now after reading your posts for more than a year, I know it for sure that you panic at the first sound and more so, spread the panic onto others. There is not question of me getting you wrong. People like you break the morale of others and BTW, if I find someone bad-mouthing my institute, I have every right to defend it. I have done it on numerous occasions and I will continue to do it. Please take notice.
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I have been a member of this thread for almost one year and has found that every one including myself is confused about the course.
It is a very sad thing that we are so much confused and even then we have joined the course.
Is it worth doing such a rigorous course under such tremendous presssure and negative frame of mind? I think, No.
My sincere advice to all is that instead of ending up with high BP or any other phsycotic ailment, the best option will be to do an MBA from a reputed B-School or at the worst from a B - Grade School. At least this will give peace of mind.
What is the point in wasting so much efforts in doing CFA and that too with a doubt in mind. Instead of that, why not study hard for the entrance test and go for an MBA from a good B - School. Put 5 - 6 hours in test preparation instead of wasting them in CFA. As far as I am concerned, I can continue the course as I am working full time with a PSU Bank because of which Ful Time MBA is out of scope.
MBA can be completed in 2 years flat and you become employable the moment you complete the course and that too in the same profile a CFA/MS(Finance) gets.
Look, I am not against CFA/MS(Finance), infact I feel it is much superior to MBA coverage wise and reputation wise. But is it worth having such tensions throughout the course. I think No.
Please note that I am just expressing my views, so no fights/bad feelings, please.
Thats not an applauding post. You could have expressed your sadness in some different way. CFA bill 2007, ccfaindia website updates, ICFAI ad in economic times inviting employers to hire CFA from ccfa database/promoting CFA- Things are getting positive.
Beta is extremely tough and very very difficult to crack in 2 months along with full time job. Time value of money, bond valuation, risk and return, capital structure, probability, hypothesis etc are difficult concepts to understand and appreciate.
There is no problem in the course. I will end up spending Rs 5 lakhs p.a in the b grade MBA school as compared to 50000 in ICFAI CFA/Ms finance.
Beta and delta are extremely challenging but thats what makes a CFA. In ms finance, kappa and theta are again challenging to make a full fledged finance professional.
It is a fantastic course. All of my friends have got jobs in all sort of profiles. None of them is a relationship manager. Look at the contents. Unbelievable. I wanted to understand nifty strangle, credit swap and LIBOR/MIBOR and i just need to open my CFA books to understand and practice these concepts.
The problem is not the course or placements. The problem is you are not able to handle the rigour along with full time job. ICFAI cant give CFA/ms finance to every one as a generalist degree. It is a professional course and needs effort fine tuned with a personal schedule- Working full time/student etc.
Career is a long term thing- A life changing experience. Doing CFA is one part of the game and sometimes the minor part. Adding 5 years of decent financial experience on the CV is a major part and experience is appreciated along with any good finance qualification- CA,MBA, CFA, ICWA, Masters.
You mentioned once you are not getting career opportunities in a PSU bank. Thats why i used the term ' CFA as a life changing tool'. It has the potential to change your life, salary and career for good. However, it needs utmost patience. It might take you little bit time to clear beta and delta-CFA and then Ms finance along with your job. Then comes the experience part which means going from one place to understand to give interview. However, all the things which you will be doing are shaping all together a different person.
Take a deep breath and re start your preparations. In the last 12 months, i decided to leave this course 3 times because it is extremely tough. I was not able to cope up with vast workbook problems and numericals. But my family, google searches
and a finance professor motivated me and i am now again motivated to finish the course ! Right now, CFA enrollement is around 47000 series like CFA 47XXX. There are 3394 CFAs. That means out of 47000 people registered in the last 22 years, only 3394 have been able to pass this course completely (Ms finance)-7.22 %
. God bless. 😃
My opinion is exactly the opposite of Ketan:
"The full flesh Ms finance program from ICFAI is as good as any top/A + grade MBA school. Look at the contents of Ms finance . The knowledge reflects in the interview making placement effort success. Sooner or later any good ms finance qualified person which has got personal capabilities and is in well developed financial hub will rub shoulders with the likes of IIMs, MDI, SP jain".
"Prefer Ms finance rather then going to a b grade MBA school.My friend at amity business school and TAPMI is also of same opinion. ROI is impressive in ms finance".
"The full flesh Ms finance program from ICFAI is as good as any top/A + grade MBA school. Look at the contents of Ms finance . The knowledge reflects in the interview making placement effort success. Sooner or later any good ms finance qualified person which has got personal capabilities and is in well developed financial hub will rub shoulders with the likes of IIMs, MDI, SP jain".
"Prefer Ms finance rather then going to a b grade MBA school.My friend at amity business school and TAPMI is also of same opinion. ROI is impressive in ms finance".