The scenario of student profile in premiere Indian management institutions is really very pathetic. It is already a very hot discussion that only engineers getting final selection letter in top B schools of India. This statement is not aimed perso…
The scenario of student profile in premiere Indian management institutions is really very pathetic. It is already a very hot discussion that only engineers getting final selection letter in top B schools of India. This statement is not aimed personally to any engineer. Take any top 30 B schools, and you will get not less then 80% of the batch is engineers. If it is the case, then it is really a very serious issue. In fact it is actually harmful to the advocation of management education. Management is a outcome of theories and concepts taken from a varied areas of subjects including technology, analytics, psychology, economics, sociology, communication etc.. So it is never obvious that only engineers will be able to grasp all these concepts and no one else. So if you tell me that in the country with 1 billion plus population, only a bunch of few lacs engineers graduating every year are only able to manage business, then it will be a silly joke. And if the case is true that only engineers are capable, then the education system in India has got real probs. If all the non engineering graduates (those who want to study management) have got no talent, then why you are running such courses. Better stop those courses. Moreover we dont want a business full of engineers only; it has to be a mixed blend. It seems that other body of knowledge has no importance. I admit that many engineer's quantitative skills are very excellent. but the fact is that analytics is just a part of business not the whole business. More over we don't need hard cracking number crunching ability to manage business. Its about idea, its about understanding, its about communication and so on and not calculus. You will get no world class management schools having such a biased student profile other than in India. Some institutions prefer engineers because they are easily employable, then if it is the case where is your credit, you are placing employable students only and not the one who is capable. So you are not able to make those capable students employable. Its Management man not Rocketry science.
The above said statements are just my own views, and not directed to any individual identity.
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The above said statements are just my own views, and not directed to any individual identity.
Ok, we agree with your opinion.
now can you please tell me what is the purpose of this thread?
what is your intent to post this issue here?
do let me know so that we can decide whether to let this thread thrive or dive.
i think he is just trying to vent his anger at our engineers.... i am not an engineer,but yes i do not advocate the aformentioned views...still trying to understand why this has to be made a separate thread altogether...
Ok so if you guys want this thread to be stopped, then I will not write anymore about this issue. I raised this issue not to vent my anger. I have no such beliefs toward the engineers. Its never their fault, if they are getting selected its not their prob. The problem is with the system. I have got many engineering frens some from very good institutes, and i have no personal grudge against them. I have shared my views because I thought this is an issue which has to be discussed about, as it has got some long term impacts. Its about changing the selection criterion or changing the education system as many good students find it hard to find a descent job because of the dismal education system. I think you guys are annoyed with my statements, so i will post this somewhere else, this is not the right platform i think.
The scenario of student profile in premiere Indian management institutions is really very pathetic. It is already a very hot discussion that only engineers getting final selection letter in top B schools of India. This statement is not aimed personally to any engineer. Take any top 30 B schools, and you will get not less then 80% of the batch is engineers. If it is the case, then it is really a very serious issue. In fact it is actually harmful to the advocation of management education. Management is a outcome of theories and concepts taken from a varied areas of subjects including technology, analytics, psychology, economics, sociology, communication etc.. So it is never obvious that only engineers will be able to grasp all these concepts and no one else. So if you tell me that in the country with 1 billion plus population, only a bunch of few lacs engineers graduating every year are only able to manage business, then it will be a silly joke. And if the case is true that only engineers are capable, then the education system in India has got real probs. If all the non engineering graduates (those who want to study management) have got no talent, then why you are running such courses. Better stop those courses. Moreover we dont want a business full of engineers only; it has to be a mixed blend. It seems that other body of knowledge has no importance. I admit that many engineer's quantitative skills are very excellent. but the fact is that analytics is just a part of business not the whole business. More over we don't need hard cracking number crunching ability to manage business. Its about idea, its about understanding, its about communication and so on and not calculus. You will get no world class management schools having such a biased student profile other than in India. Some institutions prefer engineers because they are easily employable, then if it is the case where is your credit, you are placing employable students only and not the one who is capable. So you are not able to make those capable students employable. Its Management man not Rocketry science.
The above said statements are just my own views, and not directed to any individual identity.
First of all I am not an engineer, so don't think I am advocating them.
Yes, you are right that there are a lot of engineers in any dam b-schools.. But have you ever thought why they are there??
Take a broader view of education system in India.
Our system is designed such that a person in class 10th if gets 'good' score is forced/influenced/advised to take science stream for +2.
Yeah, the guy will go and take science thinking that he will get the best career after it. Fair enough that he should ecpect good career as he is one of those who have scored 'good' score..
Now once he is in +2 science stream he has to decide Medical or engineering.
These are the coveted/most respected profession in India.
The guy takes Engineering or Medical. Because Medical has limited seats, most of the bright minds by one or the other way get into engineering.
Now after engineering, they know that they are the brightest bunch of the country and are paid less then an MBA, Plus management is the flavor they would like to taste instead of technical things.
So he decides to do MBA.
Now CAT or for that matter any other exam is just a tester to know how logical, how well read you are.
So if you look at the broader picture you will know that these are not engineers, these are the people who were and are some of the brightest mind in India ( I am not suggesting that other streams are not bright, but the quantity of engineers is much more then any other stream who applies for CAT or other exams)
So blame the society which diverts/forces bright minds to take only engineering.
PS: There is nothing personal against any stream but this is what I have found from my personal analysis.
PPS: Even I was influenced by society to take science in +2 but after that anyhow I decided to be a Pharmacist then an engineer.
The number of engineers who applied for CAT 2010 was more than 60%. So its very natural that the majority of students in IIM's will be engineers.
However diversity in batch is something which is essential. For that to happen more people from different fields would have to apply for CAT and especially capable people from areas from fields other than engineering. If people from different background who are really meritorious ( I know that there is no dearth of them) apply to CAT , I am pretty sure they will be selected irrespective of having plethora of engineers to compete with.
ohkk,
the topic is biased student profiles in top management institutes.
it does not mean that only engineers are to be blamed for that.
in fact, no one is to be blamed for that.
just have a look at this case.
every year only 20-30% (or even less) girls write CAT and still some IIMs maintain that they have to maintain a 'so called gender ratio' in their campuses.
it gives a definite edge to girls who have just applied for that b-school as they will have a greater chance of being selected.
considering further, if the average and median CAT scores for selected girls is say 92 percentile and the same for boys is 98 then who do you think has a good chance and probability of getting selected?
dude, there is heavy biasing which is very innate in the very system which we are a part of.
i won't open my mouth for the category based biasing which would tum this thread into a nightmare.
so, my suggestion is that instead of cribbing about the system, just face the grind and become a part of it.
otherwise, if one thinks to be so much motivated that he/she can raise a voice in a pursuit of changing the system, then be it.
Oh thats what i wanted to hear great , the brightest of the minds should study fields other then engineering also. I never said that i have any personal grudge against the engineers , in my family many are from engineering field, in fact my dad himself is an engineer, so I having problem with engineers is impossible. You told that most of the bright students take science, but my fren now the scenario has changed , i have frens who got top ranks in maths Olympiad in school level but yet they choose studying not science but arts which according to many is the stream for the dull ones(which is a misconception). One of my fren 2 years back got 99.77 percentile in CAT. In IIM A he was told that it will be difficult for them to place him as he was a botany honours student and also not from any very good graduation college. At last he found a seat in IIM Kozikode. A student getting above 99 percentile has got atleast some talent. I will say if his leadership skills, managerial skills are good then take him irrespective of what institute he has studied from or what body of knowledge he had studied. My fren you cant totally deny the fact that engineers are preffered to a very extent. If only the bright minds take engineering then, i will say stop CAT for other fields. Eligibility criteria B.Tech from IITs and NITs over and out. IIT grads have already proved their talent , they are real gems, but then give chance to other guys also man. Thats why you are accepting applications from other fields also, so then take them also man.
blue14 SaysOh thats what i wanted to hear great , the brightest of the minds should study fields other then engineering also. I never said that i have any personal grudge against the engineers , in my family many are from engineering field, in fact my dad himself is an engineer, so I having problem with engineers is impossible. You told that most of the bright students take science, but my fren now the scenario has changed , i have frens who got top ranks in maths Olympiad in school level but yet they choose studying not science but arts which according to many is the stream for the dull ones(which is a misconception). One of my fren 2 years back got 99.77 percentile in CAT. In IIM A he was told that it will be difficult for them to place him as he was a botany honours student and also not from any very good graduation college. At last he found a seat in IIM Kozikode. A student getting above 99 percentile has got atleast some talent. I will say if his leadership skills, managerial skills are good then take him irrespective of what institute he has studied from or what body of knowledge he had studied. My fren you cant totally deny the fact that engineers are preffered to a very extent. If only the bright minds take engineering then, i will say stop CAT for other fields. Eligibility criteria B.Tech from IITs and NITs over and out. IIT grads have already proved their talent , they are real gems, but then give chance to other guys also man. Thats why you are accepting applications from other fields also, so then take them also man.
It's really xkcd: Correlation
unless you have some evidence to show that the percentage of non engineers among 99%lers is more than percentage of non engineers at IIM's.
Most interviewers would probably select the non engineer if they find that overall an engineer and a non engineer are similar, since every director speaks about diversity these days.
In fact its just the opposite, U have an advantage if u r NOT A MALE ENGG WORKIN IN IT COMPANIES, there was an article to this effect on pagalguy itself 
the fact of the matter is you will find engineers everywhere be it bank po/clerk, ias/ifs, advertising, defense services/police, salesman/call center guy, not to mention top ceo's and manufacturing/IT sector....
U wish for a field where u will find no engineer, but then again an engineer will show up... (in short u can run but cant hide) U might even close your eyes and wish they are all gone when you open them...
to get rid of them u might have to stage an extermination or final roundup kind of thing...
PS: i am an engineer
blue14 SaysOh thats what i wanted to hear great , the brightest of the minds should study fields other then engineering also. I never said that i have any personal grudge against the engineers , in my family many are from engineering field, in fact my dad himself is an engineer, so I having problem with engineers is impossible. You told that most of the bright students take science, but my fren now the scenario has changed , i have frens who got top ranks in maths Olympiad in school level but yet they choose studying not science but arts which according to many is the stream for the dull ones(which is a misconception). One of my fren 2 years back got 99.77 percentile in CAT. In IIM A he was told that it will be difficult for them to place him as he was a botany honours student and also not from any very good graduation college. At last he found a seat in IIM Kozikode. A student getting above 99 percentile has got atleast some talent. I will say if his leadership skills, managerial skills are good then take him irrespective of what institute he has studied from or what body of knowledge he had studied. My fren you cant totally deny the fact that engineers are preffered to a very extent. If only the bright minds take engineering then, i will say stop CAT for other fields. Eligibility criteria B.Tech from IITs and NITs over and out. IIT grads have already proved their talent , they are real gems, but then give chance to other guys also man. Thats why you are accepting applications from other fields also, so then take them also man.
My friend, on one hand you are looking and the quantitative point that IIMs have more then 70% engg in the batch, and on the other hand you are putting forward one single case.. In a discussion like this we should not put forward single cases...
Still if you want let me put a case that is opposite to you friend's case..
One of my friend who is a B.Pharm grad and a fresher and not from any well known insti, got into IIM A and now he is placed in one of the telecom company.
So a b.pharm grad if can be placed, a botany grad can be placed as well.
blue14 SaysOh thats what i wanted to hear great , the brightest of the minds should study fields other then engineering also. I never said that i have any personal grudge against the engineers , in my family many are from engineering field, in fact my dad himself is an engineer, so I having problem with engineers is impossible. You told that most of the bright students take science, but my fren now the scenario has changed , i have frens who got top ranks in maths Olympiad in school level but yet they choose studying not science but arts which according to many is the stream for the dull ones(which is a misconception). One of my fren 2 years back got 99.77 percentile in CAT. In IIM A he was told that it will be difficult for them to place him as he was a botany honours student and also not from any very good graduation college. At last he found a seat in IIM Kozikode. A student getting above 99 percentile has got atleast some talent. I will say if his leadership skills, managerial skills are good then take him irrespective of what institute he has studied from or what body of knowledge he had studied. My fren you cant totally deny the fact that engineers are preffered to a very extent. If only the bright minds take engineering then, i will say stop CAT for other fields. Eligibility criteria B.Tech from IITs and NITs over and out. IIT grads have already proved their talent , they are real gems, but then give chance to other guys also man. Thats why you are accepting applications from other fields also, so then take them also man.
While experiences of people we know and are close to are hard to ignore, we have to treat them as one off cases.
For example, a MNC might come in and offer large supermarkets. It will drive my uncle out of business. So my whole family might feel very strongly about MNCs and how they drive small business owners out of a livelihood. However, all my friends look around and say, hey, I now have a lot of choice. I don't have to buy only an Ambassador or a Fiat / Colgate or Vicco Vajradanti. I can now buy anything that an American can buy.
The point I am trying to make is that while sympathizing with your friend, the experience feels a lot more "real" and that tends to bias our opinions. I am not disagreeing with your original post that there is an engineering bias in selection. I am, however, stating that one off cases are not very relevant in a group discussion or for trying to prove a point.
As Khanjan posted above, there can also be examples of people who have gotten into IIM A with a non engineering background.
That was my two paisa on structuring a case for or against something. Waiting to see how this thread and the discussion evolves.
First of all I am not an engineer, so don't think I am advocating them.
Yes, you are right that there are a lot of engineers in any dam b-schools.. But have you ever thought why they are there??
Take a broader view of education system in India.
Our system is designed such that a person in class 10th if gets 'good' score is forced/influenced/advised to take science stream for +2.
Yeah, the guy will go and take science thinking that he will get the best career after it. Fair enough that he should ecpect good career as he is one of those who have scored 'good' score..
Now once he is in +2 science stream he has to decide Medical or engineering.
These are the coveted/most respected profession in India.
The guy takes Engineering or Medical. Because Medical has limited seats, most of the bright minds by one or the other way get into engineering.
Now after engineering, they know that they are the brightest bunch of the country and are paid less then an MBA, Plus management is the flavor they would like to taste instead of technical things.
So he decides to do MBA.
Now CAT or for that matter any other exam is just a tester to know how logical, how well read you are.
So if you look at the broader picture you will know that these are not engineers, these are the people who were and are some of the brightest mind in India ( I am not suggesting that other streams are not bright, but the quantity of engineers is much more then any other stream who applies for CAT or other exams)
So blame the society which diverts/forces bright minds to take only engineering.
PS: There is nothing personal against any stream but this is what I have found from my personal analysis.
PPS: Even I was influenced by society to take science in +2 but after that anyhow I decided to be a Pharmacist then an engineer.
I myself am a pharmacist and completely agree with u
Now this is going to make the discussion interesting. 
Weekend reading (June 19-25): Incoming batch profiles, tuition fee waiver against equity, Rajaratnam trials | PaGaLGuY.com - Indias biggest website for MBA in India, International MBA, CAT, XAT, SNAP, MAT
IIM Bangalores class of 2013 will have 91.32% engineers, at IIM Calcuttas batch comprises 95% engineers.:w00t:
Solid hard facts from the horses mouths themselves.
blue14 SaysMy fren you cant totally deny the fact that engineers are preffered to a very extent. If only the bright minds take engineering then, i will say stop CAT for other fields. Eligibility criteria B.Tech from IITs and NITs over and out. IIT grads have already proved their talent , they are real gems, but then give chance to other guys also man. Thats why you are accepting applications from other fields also, so then take them also man.
You should write that to the email ids given on following page.
Contact us - IIMA
Here you're debating with people, who don't make the unwritten-admission-policies of IIM. So why burn heart, trying to make them view things from your glasses.
PS: Not Engineer. + agree with your views to some extent.