Violence in punjab- who is responsible

10 Posts  ·  4 Users
About this group
*An incident in Vienna, a religious Guru of our country killed by some 6 notorious persons. All are captured, 4 out of 6 are being beaten almost to death by the furious mob present there. Vienna police acted swiftly and take the situation under it...
Page 1 of 1
Scorpio_19 Says
The immidiate provocation for the flashpoint is the deviation from the concept of maryada. If you're a Sikh, you're strictly supposed to follow the tenets of Sikhism. Ramdasiis religious places are also called Gurudwaras, where the Granth Sahib is kept. The provocation in Vienna as claimed was due to this point: In Gurudwaras, where the Granth Sahib is kept, you're only supposed to bow before the Granth, & nobody else. In this case, the Ramdasi 'guru' sat parallel to the Granth. The Ramdasiis first bowed before the Granth, followed immidiately by bowing before their guru, this as I said is against Maryada in Sikhism. The Granth Sahib is the 11th & the last Guru in Sikhism, so followers of Sikhism are supposed to follow the tenets of this religion strictly.. at the same time I would say that anybody can take Sikhism as his religion.

As per my knowledge, they first bow before their Guru, then before the Granth Sahib..


So they don't follow all the tenets of Sikhism, does that give people license to kill them?? Why so much intolerance? Does anyone take into account the reasons they went away from pure sikhism?
Commenting on this post has been disabled by the moderator.
Scorpio_19 Says
The Ramdasiis first bowed before the Granth, followed immidiately by bowing before their guru, this as I said is against Maryada in Sikhism.


As per my knowledge, they first bow before their Guru, then before the Granth Sahib..
Commenting on this post has been disabled by the moderator.
The violence in Punjab was definitely unwarranted but just blaming people won't solve anything. The people who came on the streets were mainly lower caste or Dalits, who are widely discriminated against by Jat (i.e. upper caste) sikhs. That 's why so many Deras have come up.

The onus of reconciliation lies with upper caste Sikhs. The Guru who was killed in Vienna didn't even make any provocative statements against Sikhism unlike Ram Rahim Singh - the Guru of Dera Sacha Sauda; another prominent Dera.

For better understanding of this issue, read these articles in Indian Express,
Deciphering Deras
Why Dera a flashpoint, sets off sparks across Punjab
The fearless at prayer



The immidiate provocation for the flashpoint is the deviation from the concept of maryada. If you're a Sikh, you're strictly supposed to follow the tenets of Sikhism. Ramdasiis religious places are also called Gurudwaras, where the Granth Sahib is kept. The provocation in Vienna as claimed was due to this point: In Gurudwaras, where the Granth Sahib is kept, you're only supposed to bow before the Granth, & nobody else. In this case, the Ramdasi 'guru' sat parallel to the Granth. The Ramdasiis first bowed before the Granth, followed immidiately by bowing before their guru, this as I said is against Maryada in Sikhism. The Granth Sahib is the 11th & the last Guru in Sikhism, so followers of Sikhism are supposed to follow the tenets of this religion strictly.. at the same time I would say that anybody can take Sikhism as his religion.
Commenting on this post has been disabled by the moderator.

That was very informative Atul.

Sikh Ragis and Granthis of every Gurudwara in Punjab or anywhere else in world worship the hymns of Guru Ramdass just like they do it with other hymns. So, there is no sign of discrimination among sikh religion about castes and colours.

I didn't say that discrimination is inherent in Sikhism. Sikhism has no place for castes.

You can go to Golden Temple in Amritsar, the biggest worship place for sikhs and you will see that no one will ask your caste or religion. You will be treated at par with any other sikh present there.

Of course, person of any caste/religion can enter Amritsar temple. But the articles in Indian Express mention that more than 80% of administrative positions of Amritsar Golden Temple Trust are with Jats. And they don't allow people of lower castes to occupy positions of power. That is discrimination.

I born and brought up in Punjab only but not a sikh and i haven't seen any upper class or lower class discrimination in sikhs. This ideology is usually used by Indian Media to hype up the news. Hope this clarifies.....

I have never been to Punjab so can't argue. But Indian Express is a fairly responsible paper and therefore believable. May be, what you say is true. But what would media get by hyping up the news as you say it?
Commenting on this post has been disabled by the moderator.
Arastoic Says
The people who came on the streets were mainly lower caste or Dalits, who are widely discriminated against by Jat (i.e. upper caste) sikhs. That 's why so many Deras have come up.

Friend, you have mentioned that "there is a discrimination between Upper class and Lower class sikhs." A brief explanation to the Dera's issue: Dalit Sikhs are known as Mahjabi Sikhs and Guru Ravidass is considered as the Guru of those Mahjabi Sikhs. During the days when Shri Guru Nanak Dev ji was spreading the message of peace and harmony among the people. At that time Guru Ravidass ji was not allowed to enter any Gurudwara b'coz of his lower caste as untouchables. At that time Guru Nanak Dev ji took Ramdas ji as his disciple and set an example for equality in castes. Even in Shri Guru Garanth Sahib, there are 40 hymns of Guru Ramdass ji are included as his unforgettable contribution towards the betterment and equality in the society.

Sikh Ragis and Granthis of every Gurudwara in Punjab or anywhere else in world worship the hymns of Guru Ramdass just like they do it with other hymns. So, there is no sign of discrimination among sikh religion about castes and colours. And If there is any such discrimination, then it is limited to a particular group of people with notorious ideology.

You can go to Golden Temple in Amritsar, the biggest worship place for sikhs and you will see that no one will ask your caste or religion. You will be treated at par with any other sikh present there.

Talking of emergence of Deras, there is Dera Radha Soami (Beas Dera) which is the biggest Dera today in terms of the followers. The Head of the Dera is also a Jatt (which you have mentioned as upper class sikhs). But you will see more Dalits followers than any so called upper class there. There is no sign of discrimination.

I born and brought up in Punjab only but not a sikh and i haven't seen any upper class or lower class discrimination in sikhs. This ideology is usually used by Indian Media to hype up the news. Hope this clarifies.....

No offences mean to anyone.. Correct me if i am wrong anywhere..
Commenting on this post has been disabled by the moderator.
pendyal Says
i thought one of the premises of sikhishm is that there are no castes allowed in the religion.....how cud this happen after so many centuries of the religion having been established? someone pls enlighten me......

That's a big irony in India. You see, over the years, many lower caste people converted to other religions like Sikhism, Christianity, Islam; hoping that they would get rid of caste based identity. But unfortunately that didn't happen. The baggage of caste went with them.
Commenting on this post has been disabled by the moderator.

With time things change but somethings remain same.An incident in Vienna, a religious Guru of our country killed by some notorious person.Vienna police acted swiftly and took the situation under its control.
What happened in punjab was very much dissapointing.People burning their own property.
There could also be peace demonstrations but people chose other options.People should understand, these things are to be dealth with maturity not with agression and voilence

Commenting on this post has been disabled by the moderator.
The violence in Punjab was definitely unwarranted but just blaming people won't solve anything. The people who came on the streets were mainly lower caste or Dalits, who are widely discriminated against by Jat (i.e. upper caste) sikhs. That 's why so many Deras have come up.

The onus of reconciliation lies with upper caste Sikhs. The Guru who was killed in Vienna didn't even make any provocative statements against Sikhism unlike Ram Rahim Singh - the Guru of Dera Sacha Sauda; another prominent Dera.

For better understanding of this issue, read these articles in Indian Express,
Deciphering Deras
Why Dera a flashpoint, sets off sparks across Punjab
The fearless at prayer

i thought one of the premises of sikhishm is that there are no castes allowed in the religion.....how cud this happen after so many centuries of the religion having been established? someone pls enlighten me......
Amat Victoria Curam
Commenting on this post has been disabled by the moderator.

The violence in Punjab was definitely unwarranted but just blaming people won't solve anything. The people who came on the streets were mainly lower caste or Dalits, who are widely discriminated against by Jat (i.e. upper caste) sikhs. That 's why so many Deras have come up.

The onus of reconciliation lies with upper caste Sikhs. The Guru who was killed in Vienna didn't even make any provocative statements against Sikhism unlike Ram Rahim Singh - the Guru of Dera Sacha Sauda; another prominent Dera.

For better understanding of this issue, read these articles in Indian Express,
Deciphering Deras
Why Dera a flashpoint, sets off sparks across Punjab
The fearless at prayer

Commenting on this post has been disabled by the moderator.
An incident in Vienna, a religious Guru of our country killed by some 6 notorious persons. All are captured, 4 out of 6 are being beaten almost to death by the furious mob present there. Vienna police acted swiftly and take the situation under its control.

And what has happened in Punjab is an perfect example of lunacy and craziness. The people are destroying their own property, burning their own trains and cities. They are on the road to combust every vehicle coming in their way. The govt is appealing and appealing and only appealing for peace. No stringent action.

Everyone knows the meaning of the phrase "Divide and Rule" but still they can't understand it and doing such fatuous acts again and again. Don't imitate the imbeciles acting like naive leaders. Do what your preachers preach you to do. Try to spread peace, harmony and love everywhere.

May God show the right path to we human beings.
Commenting on this post has been disabled by the moderator.