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    IIM Indore has 65% freshers while IIM Rohtak has 90% with work-ex. What's going on?
    by Lajwanti D'Souza in IIM Indore, IIMA, freshers, work-ex, IIMK, IIM Trichy on 07 September '12

    Pic: Flickr

    The Indian Institute of Management Indore (IIMI) has 65% freshers in its 2012-2014 batch. This figure is the highest among all the Indian Institutes of Management and other top schools this year. What becomes incidental is that the number of work-ex is about 35%. While IIMI decided to go with a bigger ‘fresher’ group, some of the other IIMs consciously decided to keep the number down and increase the intake of work-ex students instead.

    Is there a perfect ratio at all?

    According to Prof Rohit Kapoor, who teaches Operations Management and Quantitative Techniques at IIMI and also looks after admissions, the institute did not go out of its way to get in more freshers this year. “It was unplanned. We stuck to the criteria and got this mix of students. We are extremely happy with this batch.”

    IIM Rohtak on the other hand, decided to tactfully cut down on the number of freshers in its 2012-2014 batch. According to its director Dr P Rameshan, while last year the ratio of work-ex to newbies was 70:30, this year it is 90:10. “We had decided that we would get a bigger batch of work-ex students and worked towards it. We planned for a 90:10 ratio in favour of work-ex so made sure we got it.”

    When asked why the change, Dr Rameshan said that a typical MBA class should be well-informed and knowledgeable about matters regarding work dynamics. “This only leads to a healthy discussion in class.” According to the IIM Rohtak director while the ideal composition of a class should be 2/3 work experience and 1/3 freshers, in worse case scenarios, work-ex should not go under 50%.

    Most other institutes have more or less kept this rule in mind. While IIM Bangalore has 27% freshers in its current first year batch, IIM Calcutta has 23%. IIM Ranchi on the other has 32 freshers in its class of 117 while at IIM Kozhikode, 40% of the class does not have any work-ex. IIM Trichy comes close to IIM Kozhikode with 38% freshers. The Shailesh J Mehta School of Management at the Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay has 11 newbies from 115 students.

    IIM Ahmedabad has 30% freshers and there were reports that this year IIMA had made it clear that those with work-ex would be definitely preferred to others. And to the extent that a slight dip in the CAT score would ignored in favour of work-ex aspirants.

    The SP Jain Institute of Management and Research,on the other hand has 81% of the Class of 2014 with experience of average 24 months. According to Professor AbbasAli Gabula, Deputy Director, External Relations and Administration, it would be naive to put a figure or ideate on what should be the right % which should be with or without experience. "It is important to know the batch composition about their career path," Prof Gabula said.
    SPJIMR iinsists on specialisation selection upfront on application. Each specialisation has different criteria for shortlisting and final selection. At SPJIMR Marketing has 31% freshers, Finance has 40% freshers, Information Management has 6% freshers and Operations has 100% experienced ranging from 14 to 54 months.
    Prof Godwyn Tennyson, Placements Chairperson at IIM Trichy says that work experience is just one of the many components of its selection process.”Whatever mix we see is purely an outcome of the process. However, in certain universities abroad, work experience is a prerequisite for applying to the management programme.” Prof Tennyson added that the ideal intake of the proportion of the freshers is driven by the requirements of the companies recruiting from the campuses. “Some firms strictly look for students with work experience while some look for freshers. From the academic front, freshers add an additional dimension to the diversity of the batch and adds flavor to the classroom learning," he added.

    The debate concerning freshers over work-ex is quite a recent one. In the last decade or so, most top schools flaunted huge chunks of freshers, except say for a school like the Indian School of Business, Hyderabad where work-ex has always been a clear requirement.

    Another faculty who did not wish to be named said that the need to get in diversity can sometime skew ratios one way or the other. “Since the trend is to take in fewer engineers and more women, the ratio of freshers can always rise. Some of the older IIMs did have huge number of non-work-ex students earlier but the trend slowly shifted towards getting in more work-ex."

    One viewpoint is that many of the newer IIMs for their first intake did take in a good portion of freshers, keeping in mind the availability in the source pool and being new at the admission game. The cut-offs for the Common Admission Test were and are also lower with the older IIMs. “But over time even the newer IIMs have been trying to increase the number of work-ex students to attract good companies for placements," said an admissions official from one of the new IIMs.

    A faculty member from an IIM in the south said that he would love to see more students from the humanities and social sciences background applying to his school, and if he does get a healthy group of diverse students, he would not mind them not having anywork-ex. . It's ironic that the IIMs have such varied admission criteria in place. While, on one hand the institutes need to be appreciated for being able to retain a personal character, on the other hand, they are letting out confusing signals to the student community at large, more so since the IIMs admit from a common student pool.

    Also, the fact cannot be ignored that if the IIMs want to speak to a more global audience, they will have to make work-ex a condition. Yes, most MBA programmes abroad are of a year's duration and often undertaken for a 'change of career path.' In India, the course being two years, it is usually taken to 'build' one's career.

    Students themselves however find the contest between freshers and work-ex students baseless. Kavya Amarnath from the current first year batch of IIM Indore says that it does not work negatively to have so many freshers in the class. “There are some subjects that experienced students can add to like operations and marketing. But for subjects like HR etc it is good that s much fresh perspective comes from those without any work ex.

    Mainak Bhowmik also from the same batch who has some work-ex says that for many subjects having a new perspective which is not discussed before, adds to the knowledge flow in the class. “Those with work-ex will know things the way they have experienced it but when there is no prior experience, there is no limit to the ideas.” Mainak adds that to really know the worth of work-ex, students should have completed a few years on a job, not just a year or two like what is mostly seen.

    An alumnus from IIM Calcutta told PaGaLGuY that it was safer to have a bigger proportion of experienced students in the class because experience at a work place gets in uncommon and many views to a classroom. "While if there are too many freshers, the experiences to be shared are far fewer."

    • Reply
    • Like 32
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    AdiPo, mbavishal & 30 others like this
    visionIIM-ACL shared this
    • Page 2 of 3  
    • yashasvi5 bhaiya pehle itna percentile aa jaye for an iim call..:) phir to chance pe dance hain..nybody can be confident and applicable from den on...
      #21 • 07 Sep '12 Like
    • acat2011 yup..whatever @Rohitphulsunge said is so, so true..thats why we have certain IIM'S which never change their criteria..like C because it has to provide the market, managers of a field in which it specializes and has proved its mettle, thus why to change the criteria.
      #22 • 07 Sep '12 Like
    • shrinivassg ^^ Even C has changed their criteria ;)
      #23 • 07 Sep '12 Like
    • acat2011 cmon yaar..gd/pi shortlisting mein 3 points add kiye hain gender diversity ke.which means if you score 99.7 + , which anyways you would be trying to get if you are thinking of C, you will, still,have a shot at C...final selection mein almost everything remains the same.
      #respect for joka
      #24 • 07 Sep '12 Like
    • memoryremains Freshers are a must for any class, they lead by an example. :)
      #25 • 07 Sep '12 Like 1
    • ramki_281 is work-ex of 6-12 months good for B Schools to consider during admission?????
      #26 • 07 Sep '12 Like
    • Rohitphulsunge @ramki_281: This is a very subjective question. Any work-ex in a company of repute is good to have under one's belt.
      #27 • 07 Sep '12 Like
    • bitsg @Rohitphulsunge thanks for clarification.Do message me when u come to nagpur.
      @sb29 thanks for not taking it personally.
      #28 • 07 Sep '12 Like
    • hrishikesh1234 In my institute more than 80% of the batch carries a work-ex which is essential in my opinion. Even I joined as a fresher... trust me the kind of variety & knowledge the work-ex people bring to the discussion in a class is unmatched.
      #29 • 08 Sep '12 Like 1
    • ishanjr “But over time even the newer IIMs have been trying to increase the number of work-ex students to attract good companies for placements" Guys this is the bottom line of IIM's business. Becoz the placement numbers & salary figures are the most important factors to decide the fate/Ranking of these institutes......
      #30 • 08 Sep '12 Like 1
    • cn22 The article does not look biased towards either freshers or experienced candidates but the IIMs sure do.
      After reading the article I think there is only one important thing left undone by most of the IIMs, they would be better off changing the eligibility criteria of CAT. I mean why are freshers even allowed to take the CAT if only a few of them are going to be considered for an admit. If they are aiming towards having a batch which they think suits the institution or whatever, why dont they just disclose that in the eligibility criteria. No offense intended but year by year they are just giving CAT takers enough reasons not to take the CAT. I know they wouldnt but that is how all this seems to be.
      Nonetheless, beware freshers another category of reservation is on its way!
      #31 • 08 Sep '12 Like 3
    • cn22 “Those with work-ex will know things the way they have experienced it but when there is no prior experience, there is no limit to the ideas.” Mainak adds that to really know the worth of work-ex, students should have completed a few years on a job, not just a year or two like what is mostly seen.
      Golden words!
      #32 • 08 Sep '12 Like
    • KnowledgeMine @gvipul443, watch your language... edit your comment to remove the B word now... there is a time and place for attitude, but not for mindless filth.... @Apurv, please note this comment and delete it....
      #33 • 09 Sep '12 Like
    • gvipul443 I don't think what I said was 'mindless filth'. These people are playing with our future.
      #34 • 09 Sep '12 Like
    • shrinivassg How exactly are they playing with your future? It's your choice to take up admission there as you want an MBA from one of these institutes. Then you have to go by their criteria no?
      #35 • 09 Sep '12 Like 2
    • KnowledgeMine @gvipul443, by mindless filth I am referring to your use of the word that starts with a B and means an illegitimate child...
      #36 • 09 Sep '12 Like
    • gvipul443 @shrinivassg we study all year to get an admission in an IIM. Then, they select 10 freshers in a batch of 100. If tomorrow all good private hospitals say ' we will only admit those patients whose monthly household income is above 2 lakhs. Would you say its justified?
      would u say 'its up to u to choose a private hospital or a govt one where there are not many facilities. Would you not oppose such senseless conditions?
      #37 • 09 Sep '12 Like
    • shrinivassg So if I make it clear upfront to you, like phoren B-schools do, that's fine with you? Everyone's made their selection criteria available upfront. It is upto you to interpret it and make your choices :)
      #38 • 09 Sep '12 Like 2
    • young_monk Every institute has to differentiate and also many institute concentrate on some specific sectors. So depending on demand in the sector and changing trends they try to tune. Management is such a diverse field and different competencies (matrices) are required for different fields. An Investment banking firm looks for a totally different guy compare to a Consulting firm. Now an institute based on its reputation in particular field and it alumni presence has to admit a specific candidate pool. Nothing confusing about it
      #39 • 09 Sep '12 Like
    • Nipunkumar It is sad that IIMs, which say they want you to look at the world without any bias, look at aspirants with a preconceived bias.
      #40 • 09 Sep '12 Like 1
    • Page 3 of 3  
    • sajjansin The so called "work experience" need to be assessed. Large number of them have experience as technical workers. In no way it 'enriches' the diversity required for MBA classes. Tehnical workers come for MBA since they get career blocked in their respective organization and the same organization come to recruit at higher pay (may be same job) and also they take chance to get employed by others. Thanks to poor understanding of employers what they are looking for.
      #41 • 09 Sep '12 Like
    • ankitgalgat this is just a funda for IIMs( mostly new).. IIM rohtak is new one so it wants to top among all new nd its only possible by giving good placements :) and companies attracts if the institute is having stuff with WORK-EX.. simply solved :)
      #42 • 10 Sep '12 Like
    • Psychamour @sajjansin

      If you feel the need for assessing "work experience" then you must also feel the need for assessing who the 'technical workers' are.
      I can write down some 20 odd types of 'technical workers' all having mutualy exclusive set of roles and responsibilities ranging from puny work of maintenance to high end development of complex management systems to the RnD of future technologies.
      The diversity in a class is build up by personalities of the people attending it.'Work ex' is just one of the many dimensions of a personality. Two 'technical workers' coming from same background can have entirely different set of perpectives, intelligence, strengths and myriad of other qualities which make them two different individuals.
      In fact, more than building diversity, 'Work-ex' builds the 'Maturity' level of the class. The quality which helps a manager or for that matter any individual take intelligible and responsible decisions.

      Perhaps you would you like to tell in detail how exactly a career is 'Blocked' in technical cos. It may be of use to our younger siblings who are aspiring for technical careers.
      Also I would encourage you to name such cos. which come to bschools looking for people who left the job at those cos. to do mba and then recruit the same people at 'higher pay' and then make them do the 'Same Job' which they were doing before leaving the co.
      It will be quite a revelation !
      #43 • 10 Sep '12 Like
    • jitrana @ashutoshjuve you are very intelligent.
      #44 • 11 Sep '12 Like
    • Psychamour @ashutoshjuve indeed you are very intelligent !
      #45 • 11 Sep '12 Like
    • ankush_khoba After reading this news, I have some hope to get into IIM's.
      #46 • 12 Sep '12 Like
    • abhidutz @ashutoshjuve u must be a fresher.!
      #47 • 04 Jan Like
    • thedestint This debate is very disheartening to me , now I feel guilty for having wasted my dad's 40k by joining a coaching institute to prepare for CAT '13. I'm a fresher without an exceptional grad score( a 7/10 ) and even if I manage a 100percentile in CAT , my chances of being selected by IIMs are gonna be next to nil :( , reason being gender diversity and non-engg stuff and preferance to people with >2 year work ex.
      The funny part is that IIMs only consider work ex of a "good" company , and good companies do not come for placements in average colleges (non A+ colleges) . So, the guys who weren't able to get into the 'oh so great' undergrad colleges are automatically out of the race , seems to me that the super seniors have made such rules deliberately so that only the IIT/SRCC/NIT crowd gets to go into IIMs in spite a poor CAT. Isn't this bias on its peak? If you are giving a -2 to engineers in Stage-2 just 'cos they are assumed to be good in quant , then shouldn't you deduce -2 from SRCC guys too 'cos they are good in Verbal/DI.

      Also ,IIMs don't have a gpa normalisation , that means a candidate who has scored a 7/10 gpa from a stringent university is treated as same as a candidate who has a 7/10 from a south Indian/lenient university (no offense to south-Indian folks but this is a known fact to everybody ).
      Another thing that I am not very comfortable with is CAT , I mean what is the point of conducting a CAT if past scores are given a weightage way more than the tough nut
      , I know people who have a >9/10 gpa in their college score 85%ile-90%ile in CAT even in multiple attempts and 6.8-7.5/10 guys from the same college score a 99+%ile in their first attempt. Grades do not reflect a candidate's true ability, but aptitude tests such as CAT do. A nerd can get an 8.5/10 gpa by mugging stuff throughout the sem and by having no social life at all , so would you call such a person better than a guy who is :
      1.academically average (he's a kid , he's immature , he's overconfident but he's smart)
      2.communicative , has a life outside the book world
      3.On an evolving stage , he wasn't aware of the fact that IIMs demand an 8.5 gpa else he too would've studied in his college ,
      shouldn't these points be considered by the IIMs too (esp IIM A,B, *Shillong* ) ??

      Ending on a high note though , I'm gonna keep trying until I'm shortlisted in a good management institute , not just the IIMs , anything good would do. :)
      #48 • 11 Feb Like
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