
(Photo credit: Aashish Mylapally)
After growing a franchise on the back of the two-year MBA format degree for 50 years, an Indian Institute of Management (IIM) has for the first time announced a foray into undergraduate education.
With the five-year Integrated Post Graduate Program (IPGP), IIM Indore seeks to deliver a BBA+MBA type cocktail to students directly after class XII. Although the institute hasn't gotten the IPGP recognized yet, the idea is to make it equivalent to holding a Bachelor's degree followed by the IIM PGP.
There is an exit option after 3 years too, but there lies a catch. Those who leave after 3 years will not get a full-fledged Bachelor's degree but an undergraduate diploma. IIM Indore Director Dr N Ravichandran says that the b-school will be transparent in informing applicants about this caveat. But that's a risk few will want to take, so whoever joins the course is likely to stay put for the entire five years. But at a tuition of Rs 9 lakhs, this shall probably be the most expensive undergraduate education in the country that doesn't result in a degree.
Dual-degree programs, conceptualised and popularised by American universities, are also offered by the Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs). Such degrees are typically structured such that the Bachelor's degree is in fundamental subjects (Science, Medicine, Social Sciences, Arts) and the Master's degree is a professional specialization or super-specialization.
The IIM Indore degree is different in that sense: it begins and ends with business management, a subject which the world is not yet fully done categorizing as a science or an art. According to the institute, 40% of the course content in the first three years will comprise multidisciplinary subjects ranging from literature, political science to biological science and soft skills. The intention is to provide deeper grounding in business management by placing it against multidisciplinary backgrounds.
Dr Ravichandran illustrates with an example. "When we teach courses in Business Law or Business History to our 2-year PGP, often the understanding of the subjects in social contexts is missing. What we want to do is teach such subjects along with history or political science so that their contextual understanding is better. Along with that we will teach the students important soft skills and leadership abilities at a young age."
Interdisciplinarity has been gaining currency at worldwide educational institutions in recent times. Even the IITs now sprinkle their engineering degrees with healthy doses of social science subjects with the similar objective of providing a worldly base to technological learning.
But is it prudent for an 18-year-old to devote the next 5 years of his/her life to learning what is essentially a super-specialization? Will these graduates survive the ups and downs of the job market and the accompanying fluctuating demand for management talent without having an alternative to fall back on? Would these graduates have the intellectual wherewithal to understand increasingly complex businesses and systems in sectors such as technology or manufacturing and compete with managers who have prior education in fundamental subjects? Time will tell.
Another 10% component of the first three years would make the students gain international exposure and intern in social organizations. The remaining 50% would teach functional areas of management such as Accounting, Finance, Organizational Behaviour, etc.
After completing the 'undergraduate' level, the students would join the standard 2-year PGP stream at IIM Indore. Would they have to study some management subjects all over again? The institute will work on those details in due course, says Dr Ravichandran.
The multidisciplinary content of the course would be taught by visiting or adjunct faculty drawn from central and state universities and top rank science and commerce colleges of India. Looking at the past track record of courses in India that rely very heavily on visiting faculty, they invariably regress into mismanaged shows wherein a 'course coordinator' constantly grapples with arranging some teacher to show up for class and often ends up settling for a sub-standard option more easily available, or classes happen only on weekends when the 'top faculty' has spare time from work at his/her home institute. This has already started to happen in some of the new IIMs started in the last couple of years and IIM Indore will have to avoid falling into this trap. On the upside, IIM faculty will for the first time teach a much younger set of students.
The lure of high pay packets and future-readiness after an IIM is so strong that even top ranking IIT graduates join one immediately after graduation without any work experience, clearly not because they want to be 'better managers'. It is easy to buy into the illusion that "if two years at an IIM can make you richer and future-ready, imagine what five years will do". Parents and students considering the IPGP should carefully weigh the course against the alternatives of first studying domain education in fundamentals (engineering, science, arts, commerce) followed by work experience before joining b-school and then decide.
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manish_harodia Needs more clarity as I would not like to put my son in a course where 'The institute will work on those details in due course'. But Yes, surely a better option than falling prey to the crooks like MPII, who also claim a similar takeaway.#1 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
paljor_chhering i think IIM Indore will come up with a tagline" Dare to think beyond ****".
#2 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
saurabh.spnf I do not understand why the respected Director of prestigious institute like IIM-I is working on revenue basis only. We already have heard complaints of students from Indore about the illogical expansion of batch size from 200+ to 450... and now this step. In fact, one of my friend at IIM-I told me that they are planning to increase it to 900 per batch in coming years... IIM-I is all set to be a UNIVERSITY
#3 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
pagalguy Wharton has an undergrad business degree program as well. I found the kids to be ridiculously smart and hard working in most cases. But since it wasn't an 'integrated MBA' program, very few of them went on to do the MBA course. Most of them took up jobs after graduating and then worked for a few years and then considered a masters degree if they felt the need for it. Also if you do an undergrad from a place, it is really better to a post graduation from another one. It really puts you into a different place, different culture and that is really helpful as you grow along in life. Most of the Wharton undergrads didn't necessarily return to Wharton for an MBA degree. Hope to see a strong undergrad college in business in India and then hope to see the graduates work for a few years before deciding on their business destinies.#4 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
iitr.abhishek Very risky move... i must say!! 1) What if the batch quality thye get is not that good? 2) What about the diversity IIM people always talk about? 3) Or to solve these problems Will they have GDPI Essay etc for 16-18 year old people, to solve these problems? if they want to follow iits then one fact is that iits have 100 types of courses so they can manage(also they have very less number of students in dual degree courses generally around 10-20)... but these people will only teach same courses to everyone!! 4) Do they have faculties who teach a 18 year old guy/girl? 5) Had heared they didnt have faculties to run IIM Raipur, now they have got Udaipur as well there also they dont have faculty and they want one more course. Just want to screw student who has come to them for better education, because of the brand name established by ABC. Newer IITs have done the same thing but they increased seats after getting good number of facutlies... they dont rely always on visiting ones!! 6) IIMs had preferred people with work experience earlier but can they get people with work ex. or can they allow someone to have work ex. first and then come back and complete the degree? I feel that they are not getting quality students so this is just to get more number of students, or block some bright students at the age of 18 so that they cant go to better IIMs. But certainly a good move if it is at some established college with excess facilities, because the students will have network with 6 batches of the institute, it can be better if some student exchange programm is there may be with DU or IITs or any other institute. Moreover one should be asked to take work ex. of some yrs since the Becholor degree is of 3 yrs only unlike engineering or CA etc!!!!#5 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
dijker Well we wont have this suspicious look if that stupid,age old,13th century UGC Act wasnt modofied.I think that act prevents institutes from giving degrees which are titled MBA or BBA in this case if a student opts out after 3 years he will get an undergrad diploma instead of BS or BBA which is just like PGDM instead of MBA. So Kapil Sibal instead of creating Jokepal bills should look at revamping the laws which are directing the education into a gutter#6 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
VivekMishra2010 I agree with Van Dijk#7 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
Anonymous Agreeing with and adding to what Abhishek sir had already said 1> Why IIMs are going backwards. Why are they not planing to improve other MBA programs (read executive MBA ) 2> If IIMs are all equipped with resources why dint they are starting Specialist course MBA why only generic PGDMs and PGPs 3> In one particular IIM director interview or say all them are hue crying in the name of diversity. How are they going to establish divversity in the BBA + MBA batch u cant classify them more than Art , commerce and Science 4> 25 Lakhs fees isnt this looks like selling the brand IIMs to rich people who can afford this course I think this move from a particular IIM is nothing more than initiative in the sake of initating some newthing and an attempt to distinguish itself from new IIMs and other IIMs apart from Big 3. Another reason could be that the particular IIM in discussion wasnt able to place Workex ppl, who atleast knew the reason from being there , so inorder to save its image with more such embrassement in future ; it wants to try some new adventure in other field#8 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
dijker "According to the institute, 40% of the course content in the first three years will comprise multidisciplinary subjects ranging from literature, political science to biological science and soft skills. The intention is to provide deeper grounding in business management by placing it against multidisciplinary backgrounds." Another possible flaw is that after 5 years these 12th passed kids will have an MBA degree with 0 years work ex.(I know IIMs accept freshers) To correct this flaw IIM could make internships compulsory at the end 2nd,3rd and 4th year but will the students have enough knowledge to work in the relevant fields because as said 40% of the curriculum will be from multidisciplinary subjects? And whats the admission criteria?Dont tell me only 10th and 12th marks there should be another aptitude test plus essays from students and recos from college,school professors#9 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
ankit9doshi I know this is a tricky one and we will have to see how this actually pans out, but this concept somehow strikes a chord with me. Here's why: If I have the option of wasting 4 years in engineering v/s 5 years in an IIM....I would go for the latter(assuming cost is not an issue). Majority of engineers end up doing MBA. Why waste 4 years to figure out engineering is not for me, the take up a job you don't like and then get into the CAT prep rigmarole?#10 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
meshed Yes I never had any clarity about what I wanted, but for that I can only say I never took the pains to be adequately informed. Instead I just chose to go with the flow. Institute quality, brand, teachers all that notwithstanding, I'd say this IIMI course is definitely better than 4 years BE, 3 years TCS/Wipro etc (irrelevant experience) and then 2 years MBA. Shortcut for sure, and I'd any day go for it.#11 • 06 Jul '11 Like 1 -
nayas I don't think its the right time to appraise about this course. Till the finer details about the course are explicated , its better to just be aware of such a course. One of the major points that is not clear is whether the BBA students will be eligible for placements from the institute even if they drop out at the undergrad stage. Also when people say that its not a core course I would like to say a few points about this. I passed out from computer science from a leading college and after passing out there were only a core group of subjects ~ 6 or even less which we had to be aware of to crack the campus placements in any big company( Microsoft, Google, Adobe , Oracle etc ). Now computer science is still probably the most in demand course in engineering the country and if those core subjects in computer science could be taught in one semester and the students can assimilate those subjects, I don't think it would matter much. I feel an MBA is mostly a generalist and versatile person and if I could learn a bit of core computer science, mechanical and electrical along with main subjects like economics, english and maths , I would be able to stand on par with any engineer after completing my BBA. The only point of concern is that the course wont be a degree but with the government thinking of giving autonomy to IIM's and allow IIM's to give degrees in the future I see even that problem will be solved.#12 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
Sin_Guru now this is ridiculus..MBA without workex was already silly enough. this is really sad state of affairs#13 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
DEVILISHANGEL Brilliant Move. Very Good points brought out by the Pagalguys. In the long run, this course will benefit more than it can ever harm. India needs to allow multi-disciplinary graduation and specialised masters.#14 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
DEVILISHANGEL But yes - the perennial mba without work (as said by sin_guru) is something that India should really get out of...#15 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
first_timer some of the comments state that there's no point in "wasting 4 years in engineering and then irrelevant workex", better to jump right into management after 12th. The flaw in this reasoning is : just as most of the students don't have any clue about engineering after 12th, like that most of them would have no clue about management also. So cases of getting "hopelessly stuck in management" can also happen.#16 • 06 Jul '11 Like -
nayas Here are some interesting views given by a prof of IIT Kanpur on the same http://dsanghi.blogspot.com/2011/07/why-i-like-5-year-integrated-pgp-at-iim.html#17 • 07 Jul '11 Like -
anaadijamwal ok my 2 cents here 1.) I think it is a very good move considering that we desperately need a good institute for an undergrad. course like BBA...everytym we see a new IIT popping up but someone somewhere thought about entering into this area is fabulous...but all this only holds true for standalone BBA not BBA+mba 2.)Y would every student completing your BBA course gets the privilege of studying a PGP at brand IIM??..... a direct entry into PGP at IIM-I is an area of concern for me...what if a bba guy from IIM-I is good with his BBA subjects but is not good with quants or reasoning or verbal (or a combination of these he still gets to study in a top notch IIM ..just because he did his BBA from there, whereas others who take CAT prove their worth n then come for it.. Also, what if a BBA student at IIM-I turns out to be bad at academics? will IIM-I overlook his bad academics performance in his undergrad n still give him a direct ticket to PGP... yes seems the answer as of now..but if that is so why can't CAT takers get the same privilege. 4.) If IIM-I refutes the point that CAT takers prove their worth and then join IIM by saying out loud that they have a screening test for these BBA+MBA candidates as well...and they will only take the best of the lot...still the point is that the number of students who will appear for this screening is way less than those appearing for CAT (reduced competition) and also the quality of students will not be as great as those appearing for CAT (since cream would still prefer an IIT or a BITS neday) ....so lot of questions that need an answer as of now#18 • 07 Jul '11 Like -
fashd i dont think its a good move,because its risky and also involving UG level in IIM's will definitely ruin its lusture. probably there is no greater value for integrated courses these days, even if u get the same degree,and even if u r studying more years than a normal IIM sttudent#19 • 07 Jul '11 Like -
ankit9doshi While I agree about the points on costs and the dilemma after 3 yrs to continue or stay put at IIM Indore, I can't seem to fathom the ' brand dilution' and 'losing lustre' argument. How will a undergraduate course which is setting out to be multi-disciplinary in any way affect the brand of the institution? the 2 yr PGP through CAT is not getting discontinued.#20 • 09 Jul '11 Like - Page 2 of 2
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cazarekar I consider this is a best move of IIM Indore. We do observe that most of IIM PGP students are from engineering. I believe what engineering help students is improvement in their analytic skills, but focus of engg is ultimately on technical aspects which may not be completely necessary after management education. For example, E & TC engineer who has studied power electronics, Integrated circuit design subjects will not help him mostly, if he join management career after MBA. So, i think his efforts on those subjects are not getting properly utilized. And same case happen with students from another fundamental branches like B.sc. etc. So, here if IIM I is focusing on development of analytic skills, especially on business acumen, I am damn sure it will help IPGP students in becoming legendary business professionals. Also, internship they are doing will help them in getting exposure to practical industry scenario. Hence, Cheers up for IPGP !!!! :):)#21 • 09 Jul '11 Like -
reality_bytes IIM Indore is playing with fire. It is trying to bite off more than it can chew. Rather than trying to improve its flagship MBA program, it is branching off in other directions. The institute is leveraging on the fact that given the poor state of higher education in our country, there would be swathes of less deserving students flocking to an "IIM" even as truly meritorious students would keep away from a program which offers just a diploma after 5 years. IIM Indore is indulging in shamelessly commercializing its offering. The focus is more on profit making than on imparting quality education. I am not sure how many of you are aware of the dismal summer placements of the current batch. Even the EPGP program's placement record is appalling. Saddest of all the director of the has stated that "placements are not his primary concern" and if because of that the institute ranking goes down he wont bat an eyelid.#22 • 10 Jul '11 Like -
lukkeydude Well, i am pursuing MBA(Tech) from NMIMS. Its a bit different from the IIM-I offering as its is amalgamation of Engineering and MBA. The course even has the same 10-20% management subjects being taught in the first three years. Few quick points from the personal experience: Pros: 1) Management subjects taught with UG subjects definitely broadens thinking prowess. 2) Polishes the overall personality. Cons: 1) Students generally are not mature enough to take such a big decision at the age of 17/18. 2) Students who find there calling in Tech. area are generally not interested in the MBA subjects(Here IIM-I offers exit option) Will love to discuss, if you guys got any queries. Njoi.
#23 • 10 Jul '11 Like -
reality_bytes @lukkeydude : According to you "Students who find there calling in Tech. area are generally not interested in the MBA subjects". Please check the batch profile in any IIM (or for that matter any reputed B school); more than 90% students are engineers. More often than not this percentage is even higher.#24 • 10 Jul '11 Like -
nerd0422 @reality bytes dont open a can of warms regarding IIMI's summer placement. It has already been discussed earlier also. At the same time, what do you know about EPGP program?? Get your facts right dude. EPGP's placement was simply superb.#25 • 11 Jul '11 Like -
lukkeydude @RealityBytes: Not sure about 90%+, but yeah majority of the students are from engineering background. But, what i meant by the statement was the 'calling' in tech. area and not just simply holding an engineering degree. Assuming that you are an engineer yourself, you can understand the difference between the two facts. Njoi
#26 • 11 Jul '11 Like -
raamcharran i have been offered Msc Economics +BE dual at BITS pilani goa campus. I am alose extremely interested in this new program started by IIM I since i have always been interested in a career in finance(hedge funds in particular). Should I opt for the novel system of engineering(and a economics in my case) or go for this new program. My heart tells me to go for this program as i can focus on my career right from the begining and have to take no deviations. I am looking forward to advices from people in this website. Thank you in advance#27 • 14 Jul '11 Like -
sanjeev_malik as it is for the first time, how good it may be as a option to select?? any scope of such course? it is also mentiond they will provide finally a diploma not degree.. i find it very risky..... i want someone to explain the couse details and its merits... how a 10+2 student can match up to that level... as after btech or a other degree atleast they have specialisation or knowledge about a field ... i mean that finally we would have basics of management and no field/ knowledge to apply some where...(i am a science student)#28 • 29 Aug '11 Like -
rajque so what are the requierements to be met for this program!#29 • 23 Apr '12 Like
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