• Home
  • News
  • Forums
    • CAT & related B-schools
    • XAT, SNAP, IIFT, MAT, CMAT   and related B-schools
    • CAT: Quant Prep
    • CAT: Verbal Prep
    • CAT: GK & other resources
    • GMAT & GRE prep
    • GMAT accepting B-schools
    • Jobs & Careers
    • Pre-MBA Jobs
    • Post-MBA Jobs
    • Chit-Chat
    • PG-Meets & Events
    • Life @ B-schools
    • Touching Lives
  • Apps
    • Townhall
    • Badges
    • Birthdays
  • Rankings
 

Messages

Send a New Message
View All

Notifications

View All

Karma Updates

View All
    Live Ticker
    Login
    • Forgot password?

    New to PaGaLGuY?

    Login ×

    New to PaGaLGuY? Sign Up!

    Login

    Login
    Forgot your password/username?

    Forgot your password? ×

    Advertisements
    Advertisements
    CAT could evolve to become an adaptive test: IIMC director Shekhar Chaudhari
    by Lajwanti D'Souza in IIMC, Prof Shekhar Chaudhari on 14 September '12

    Prof Shekhar Chaudhari

    The Indian Institute of Management Calcutta (IIMC) has kicked-off a few radical moves in the last few months. From initiating ‘reservation’ for women applicants to aggressively going after alumni to keep its infrastructure plans ticking. IIMC director Professor Shekhar Chaudhuri, spoke to PaGaLGuY about these measures and also on his institute's contribution to homogenising higher education in India.

    What, in your opinion is the contribution of older IIMs, in raising the bar of management education in India?

    IIM Calcutta and IIM Ahmedabad – the first two IIMs to be established by the Govt. of India have played a pioneering role in introducing formal management education in the country and in making a major contribution in professionalising management in Indian organizations.

    The IIMs have been successful in popularising management education to such an extent that it created a great interest amongst students in the country to opt for ‘management’ as an attractive career option. Over the years, some of the brightest students in the country have been opting to join the IIMs in the two year post graduate programmes. A large number of the alumni of the older IIMs are today occupying top leadership positions in different companies that straddle many industries including manufacturing, IT and ITES, agro business, management consultancy, investment banking and financial services, the NGO sector, micro finance, retail, etc. Many IIM alumni have been successful in establishing themselves as entrepreneurs and several alumni have established themselves as management gurus.

    You have made a plea to your alumni to contribute funds for IIMC’s infrastructure projects, when the IIMs receive government grant.

    The alumni of many US business schools have been making financial contributions to their alma maters. However, in India it is a new thing. So far the IIMs have not depended on alumni funding; however we believe that they can contribute in many other ways. Alumni funding can be very useful for undertaking many projects which may not be possible to fund through tuition fees alone. The older IIMs having reached a level of maturity and have become self-sufficient and are therefore not dependent upon the Government for funds.

    In schools abroad, don't alumni play a bigger role in the school’s activities?

    We see the role of alumni as being multi-faceted. Our alumni have been taking interest in organising workshops on strategic marketing and entrepreneurship. Many of our alumni have participated in conferences organised by us and several of them are currently playing very important roles as members of the Board of Governors. Specifically I would like to mention that Mr Ajit Balakrishnan an alumnus of the 1971 batch is currently the Chairman of the BOG of the Institute. Currently several of our alumni are involved in helping the institute design a programme to develop entrepreneurs.

    You have recently established a research centre at IIMC, but are yet to get to a 100% case-study teaching method.

    I am very confident that the case study method is very suitable for our student population. It only takes a few weeks for the students to understand the case method of teaching and learning. I sincerely believe that the case method helps the students to understand a managerial situation from multiple perspectives as in a case discussion class the faculty conducts the class in such a way that multiple viewpoints impinging on the situation are brought out. The problem that we are facing is the lack of enough cases of Indian origin. The IIMC Case Research Centre has been established with the objective of developing Indian cases for classroom use as well asoto promote case-based research.

    So our approach to research is hampering our global reputation?

    The older IIMs have already made a name for themselves. Their students are recognised all over the world, especially in the top institutions in the United States, Europe, Asia and Australia. IIMs are today recognised for their excellence in teaching but they have yet to make a mark in research and publications.

    Selection criteria in the IIMs always attracts attention.

    Each IIM has its own selection criteria; however in general, they look for various qualities that are essential to become business leaders. CAT measures different abilities including quantitative ability, data interpretation and verbal reasoning. A leader requires many other qualities which are attempted to be identified in the interview stage. Because of this, the weightage of CAT scores in the selection process has come down.

    And diversity continues to be the buzz word.

    In real life there is a lot of diversity but in the classroom in IIMs there is little diversity. Our intention is to mirror in the classroom the real diversity that is present outside. By giving additional marks to women and non- engineering applicants we would like to change the character of the applicant pool so that the selection of the final list of students to be admitted is from a larger pool.

    Even after three years, the online CAT continues to be questioned.

    The computer based CAT is very new. Over time my feeling is that this test would evolve into the adaptive type test.

    Don't placements play the biggest role in b-school selection?

    I agree that the applicants do give a lot of importance to ‘placements’ in deciding on which IIM to join. It is very natural for a candidate who has to shell out approximately Rs 10-15 lacs for the two year programme. However students need to realise that earning money cannot be the only factor that will bring happiness in life. The IIMs are trying to convey this message to the students through different courses and counselling sessions.

    • Reply
    • Like 22
    • Share 0
    • Follow
    aditimathur23, adi3005 & 20 others like this
    • Page 1 of 4  
    • charak1987 interesting thoughts
      #1 • 14 Sep '12 Like
    • naga25french Everything fine .. "A leader requires many other qualities which are attempted to be identified in the interview stage" - Why don't they test these qualities in the written test to some extent rather than making the aspirants solve only maths and verbal question ?
      #2 • 14 Sep '12 Like 47
    • Quantohelp @naga25french A very pertinent question indeed....
      #3 • 14 Sep '12 Like 1
    • Brobdingnagian You know what does not make sense? Giving caste based reservations. And giving brownie points for not being a male and/ or an engineer on top of caste based reservations. If you want diversity in your classrooms, then stop the QUOTA non-sense. Give more importance to merit, start looking at profiles instead of caste certificates. It is high time IIM's stop talking about 'leadership' and start displaying some. Forbes India recently reported (read: went berserk) on IIM- A. Many of those things apply to IIM-C too. Although I don't agree with all the points they have made, the report hits the bull'e eye in its entirety. Links:
      http://forbesindia.com/article/boardroom/iima-needs-to-step-out-into-the-real-world/33689/1
      http://forbesindia.com/article/boardroom/iima-did-not-evolve-fast-enough/33747/1

      Better yet, instead of creating hoopla over diversity - something you can not totally control, start embracing what you already have. Engineers are the backbone of this country. You may despise us, but you can't stop us.
      #4 • 14 Sep '12 Like 31
    • Brobdingnagian naga25french Quantohelp I think the pattern of CAT makes sense. Judging personality aspects such as leadership traits is more of a subjective phenomenon. But I think CAT fulfills its objective only partially. I hate the way IIM's go pedantic over percentiles. To them, 99.55 is better than 99.54. And in a less than perfect computer based test, it becomes unfair to the students.
      #5 • 14 Sep '12 Like 3
    • shrinivassg @Brobdingnagian
      It is impossible to stop quotas as they are mandated by the government. Not happening any time in the short term atleast.
      #6 • 14 Sep '12 Like
    • shrinivassg @naga25french
      When you start getting subjective with 2L plus aspirants, it becomes a very tough game. That too with RTI rearing its head. It becomes quite tough to objective to judge subjective answers. And CAT is more of an elimination criteria today. And not the only criteria, at all IIMs today. Which I feel, is the right way to go :)
      #7 • 14 Sep '12 Like 2
    • shrinivassg And @naga25french, how do you test leadership aspects? Psychometric test? Ethics or decision making based questions? You wont quite get the right persona even then, as people will go for politically correct answers (helped by coaching institutes who will decode such questions as well)
      #8 • 14 Sep '12 Like 7
    • Brobdingnagian @shrinivassg Yes, that is true. But if IIM's can stand against MHRD over administrative issues, faculty salaries, then they stand can against caste based reservations, making case that it affects quality and is one of the biggest hurdles for diversity. But they don't, and that is my point. Instead of complying with politics fueled govt. initiatives, they should support what is best for the institute and its students.
      #9 • 14 Sep '12 Like 4
    • shrinivassg I am not sure how caste based reservations is a hurdle for diversity.
      Being a government institute, there is only so much that you can oppose the government on. This is one thing where they cannot. It will only lead to a LOT of bad blood, bad publicity.
      #10 • 14 Sep '12 Like
    • naga25french Psychometric is tested one. Even ethical/decision making makes a lot of sense .. Moreover my point is just keep this subjective part as part of testing (they may /may not considered for shortlist . that's Cat Adcom wish) ..40 different decision making/Psychometric test per year can be done if they really want to implement it.. If quant + verbal is cleared , then check this subjective part else ignore it .. In that way ,One shot at glory for 15-20 min in interviews can be increased to two chances..After all everyone need second chances in life :)
      #11 • 14 Sep '12 Like 5
    • Brobdingnagian @shrinivassg It is a hurdle because it badly affects proper utilization of limited resources that our institutes have. Instead of restricting half the seats for students from particular section of society, those seats could be better utilized to encourage students from diverse backgrounds.
      #12 • 14 Sep '12 Like 2
    • shrinivassg Well, like in the case of OBC, those seats wouldn't have been there otherwise :-/
      #13 • 14 Sep '12 Like
    • shrinivassg @naga25french
      Do you answer pyschometric or ethical questions honestly? Or do we go for the answer that will help us getting selected?
      #14 • 14 Sep '12 Like
    • naga25french Depends on the individuals :D The same ethical dilemma arises in interview questions as well ..Honesty Vs getting selected with smartness can be a never ending debate :) You know that better than me having gone through all those process ..
      #15 • 14 Sep '12 Like 2
    • Psychamour "A leader requires many other qualities which are attempted to be identified in the interview stage. Because of this, the weightage of CAT scores in the selection process HAS come down"
      Have they realised this thing recently or Leaders have changed their traits over the years?
      #16 • 14 Sep '12 Like 1
    • sourabh6949 even i am against the cast based reservation system.. how can student with a descent score compete against student who has worked his back side off just to get into prestigious institutes.. i mean just because of reservation a good meritorious student wont get what he deserves.. so if iims can stand against other decisions they can think through this point as well ..
      #17 • 14 Sep '12 Like 2
    • alokkhg @sourabh6949 see sourabh its a vote bank tactics. If any of the IIMs go against the reservation they will lose there autonomous stature. Government will change everyone in the institute opposing reservation that will include directors also. The only way to eradicate reservation is to dilute it. Give reservations to everybody and thus there would be no effect on reservation. At this moment that's what I think is happening in the country. Every cast and sect now want reservation. Now the day are not too far when every Indian will get reservation.
      #18 • 14 Sep '12 Like
    • shamz13 There was a greyhound race, where 100 dogs are participating. A group of 50 dogs were well trained, well fed, raised under very good conditions as they had best owners. Another set of 20 dogs had owners who cared for their dogs. One more set of 20 dogs owners were finding difficult to feed their dogs. A set of 7 dogs were taking care of themselves as well as their owners. The left out 3 dogs were differently-abled and wanted to run the race to make their living. Dog owners and the organizers understood the parity between these different groups and divided the prize amount into 5 pieces. Whereas, the dogs didn't try to understand the concept and went furious, they always wanted all the dogs to include under a single pool and select the winners ;-)

      Note: No offense meant. Not ready to argue as well.
      #19 • 14 Sep '12 Like 3
    • Psychamour @shamz13
      Everything you reported is picture perfect , you just walked over one detail- That Mighty race was not only for Greyhounds. It was one race for all kinds of dogs- the Hounds, the Terriers, the Mastiffs, the smallest Chihuhua and the biggest Great Dane. All kind of dogs were made to run one same race - so as to create a so called - level playing field.
      #20 • 14 Sep '12 Like 1
    • Page 2 of 4  
    • Ricky25 ^ I concur with your logic but I think that MOST of the dogs in those other sets of 20 , 20 and 7 who qualify the race are well trained ,well fed, raised under very good conditions as well
      #21 • 14 Sep '12 Like 3
    • khanjan @shrinivassg I doubt that those seats wouldn't be there otherwise..
      IIMs anyway had to increase the number of seats, it is just that Kapil Sibal gave a name to the inrease in seats and tried to make everyone happy..
      So it is like giving name to the increase, not more than that..
      #22 • 14 Sep '12 Like 1
    • shamz13 @Psychamour - In similar terms, does people expect to just have one BOXING competition between the heavy weight, middle weight and light-weight? I wonder why they expect to have a race between smallest Chihuhua and biggest Great Dane ;-)
      #23 • 14 Sep '12 Like 1
    • shamz13
      @Ricky25 - people always assume by just pulling one example, but what they assume is actually not true. If there exists an opportunity to case study different sets of people among broadly classified groups in India, then comes the reality which the government is aware of right from 1951.
      #24 • 14 Sep '12 Like 1
    • acat2011 He talks of diversity but adding only 3 points, that too, not in final selection might not make the process different in a big way....#thankgod.
      #25 • 14 Sep '12 Like
    • sagac "By giving additional marks to women and non- engineering applicants we would like to change the character of the applicant pool so that the selection of the final list of students to be admitted is from a larger pool." They want diversification in class on the cost of more talented and deserving applicants. If they have to test skills other than just IQ and soft skills then they can add a new section and customize the test as per their need. I don't know how such a intellectual person can justify propping up less competent applicants. We are so used to prop ups (reservations, quotas, subsidies....) that we are keeping ourselves oblivious to other plausible solutions.
      #26 • 14 Sep '12 Like 5
    • imcoolrvid "In real life there is a lot of diversity but in the classroom in IIMs there is little diversity. Our intention is to mirror in the classroom the real diversity that is present outside."--- One thing which all the IIMs turn a blind eye to is that you have to see the diversity among top class talent and not just diversity among the entire population..

      The IIMs should be the "ABODE for THE BEST" and not a "SHRINE for THE MEDIOCRE".. The IIMs are trying to ape the West where there are equal number of boys and girls belonging to the CREAMY LAYER in terms of TALENT take science, arts, commerce, engineering, medical etc. In India, the situation is quite different.

      You select the 50 best schools in each state (28 states are there), then select the top 10 students in class 7 to class 10 (40 CREAMY LAYER students from each school). Now you have a pool of 50x28x40= 56,000 students.. You ask these 56,000 CREAMY LAYER students just one question-- "What do you want to become in the future??"...... Out of those 56,000 students, 50,000 will say "ENGINEER", 5,000 will say "DOCTOR", and the rest 1,000 may say Arts, Commerce, Mass Comm, Pure Science graduate..

      So, you see that there is no diversity in the creamy layer in India. >90% of the top students of the country want to become ENGINEERS. Till date, I haven't seen the topper of a reputed school wanting to do Arts/ Commerce. >95% of those who take arts/Commerce in PLUS TWO are those who do not have sufficient marks to get Science in a good school or those who do not feel they are good enough to crack the competitves like IIT/AIEEE and that they would rather pursue something where competition is less. I have rarely seen a CREAMY LAYER guy or gal take Arts/Commerce of their will.

      So when there is no diversity in the CREAMY LAYER (in terms of talent) in the country, when >90% of the CREAMY LAYER become engineers, then expecting a diversity of <90% engineers in an IIM is really like replacing CREAMY LAYER engineers with MEDIOCRE arts/commerce guys.... Which is indeed very unfortunate..
      #27 • 15 Sep '12 Like 6
    • imcoolrvid <90% engineers in an IIM is really like replacing CREAMY LAYER engineers with MEDIOCRE arts/commerce guys.... Which is indeed very unfortunate..
      #28 • 15 Sep '12 Like
    • imcoolrvid <90% engineers in an IIM is really like replacing CREAMY LAYER engineers with MEDIOCRE arts/commerce guys.... Which is indeed very unfortunate..
      #29 • 15 Sep '12 Like
    • imcoolrvid <90% engineers in an IIM is really like replacing CREAMY LAYER engineers with MEDIOCRE arts/commerce guys.... Which is indeed very unfortunate..
      #30 • 15 Sep '12 Like
    • jitrana @Brobdingnagian kaash tumhari baatein un "rule-makers" ko samajh mein ati... liked it.
      #31 • 15 Sep '12 Like
    • jitrana this is the same professor who in an earlier interview said "i haven't looked at the CAT question paper ever since i appeared for it..!!"
      #32 • 15 Sep '12 Like
    • jitrana @shamz13 fantastic story.. Nobel in eng lit!! i didnt understood it though!!
      #33 • 15 Sep '12 Like
    • imcoolrvid When there is no diversity in the CREAMY LAYER (in terms of talent) in the country, when >90% of the CREAMY LAYER become engineers, then expecting a diversity having lesser engineers in an IIM is really like replacing CREAMY LAYER engineers with MEDIOCRE arts/commerce guys.... Further, if you go to any top Engineering/Medical College you will find not even 10% girls. When there is open competition, girls stand nowhere compared to boys. So reserving for women is essentially replacing a CREAMY LAYER boy with a MEDIOCRE girl... Which is indeed very unfortunate...
      #34 • 15 Sep '12 Like 5
    • acat2011 @imcoolrvid: u should be thankful to the new PG..no groans :P
      #35 • 15 Sep '12 Like 3
    • adityaknsit "By giving additional marks to women and non- engineering applicants we would like to change the character of the applicant pool so that the selection of the final list of students to be admitted is from a larger pool."

      I am a guy from the general category pursuing engineering from a government engineering college (stingy professors, low marks) and when I learn that the IIMs hate me....I....I feel blessed,....now it will be quite sweet when I enter a top notch IIM...You hate me, so I'll be there...
      #36 • 15 Sep '12 Like 2
    • DEVILISHANGEL naga25french: Haha...dear old timer...hello first of all :P -back to the question-How I wish, How I wish...but probably it would be very difficult to judge the leadership qualities in a question paper...thats where qualitative perspective comes to matter. But yes like I said...How I wish...How I wish :) But i accept the psychometric testing funda. That is very true...esp stuff like Firo B, MBTI, BIG 5 etc. It is industry recognized and industry used. Also in case anyone wants to look at how things like IQ can be tested look at LSAT questions
      #37 • 15 Sep '12 Like
    • DEVILISHANGEL @imcoolrvid: Exactly Correct, that is exactly what needs to change :) and its changing very very rapidly. After all India is such a top-down country so it has to. This is churn time - Thoda Pain hoga but this pain is necessary for the larger good. I know its sad but it has to happen, sooner the better.
      #38 • 15 Sep '12 Like
    • DEVILISHANGEL @imcoolrvid: If you look at career decisions today by the informed students the current choice of career is changing very very rapidly. Check for example commerce, law and literature and Math - Very bright kids are getting into them and frankly living much better lives than most engineers today - Ofcourse they will when nasscom says 50% of passing engineers in India are not employable - that data on an average of 9+ lakh engineers passing every year is not pretty. This can obviously be mapped against the kind of harrowed madness to change stream once they passout of engineering or land their first IT job. Also, let me be very honest, the request comes from corporates for more inclusion and diversity - not the mhrd or colleges themselves - they are just part of the delivery process. Diversity brings in difference in opinion deriving from different experiences in life because of different decisions taken at different stages of life. This is what its about - The constant fight for difference and not the mundane. we are all a product of Nature and Nurture. And since Nurture is 50% it will always play a role in real life.
      #39 • 15 Sep '12 Like
    • royy @imcoolrvid what are u saying bro we need girls even if she's a MEDIOCRE girl ....and we find bschool grad's also speaking of diversity ....its jst attitude(no hard feelings)...once i get admitted i"l also speak of diversity :P :D......and sir when Mr Ajit Balakrishnan was admitted IIMC had lots of criteria r8 to check his leeadershiiip qualities.....oh may b diversity in his batch made him a good leader :P
      #40 • 15 Sep '12 Like
    • B I U
      Press Shift+Enter to add a new line.

    • © 2013 PaGaLGuY
    • About Us
    • Careers
    • Advertise
    • Contact Us
    • Help
    • Privacy
    Report This Content ×

    Your report does not guarantee removal of this content from the site. It will be removed altogether only if a Moderator finds it especially useless after reviewing it.

    Warn User

    ×

    Repeal a Warning

    ×

    Promote this post

    ×
    web03:8006