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FT Ranking 2008

Guys, FT 2008 MBA ranking is out. ISB is now Rank #20. It has been a long wait for ISB!! _LINK_ Cheers Ankur
Wow, it looks like everyone here is an EXPERT on B-Schools.. much more so than FT, which has only been doing this for years now.

Look.. Ranking mean very little. The perception of these ranked colleges is what matters. And the perception in the market in which you wish to work in is that much more important.

It simply means this -
ISB can now claim to be a rank 20 college. ISB grads will be viewed as superior. ISB grads may get more money. ISB's rank will remain high.
The truth isn't as important as perception.


And yes, I think the IIM's are overrated. 200k people fighting for the privilege of studying with a few thousand others, who like them, are fresh out of college and believe that marks mean everything.
Gimme an ISB anyday, where I gotta compete with people who've actually survived office politics, bad bosses, learnt from real office mentors and have had their asses handed to them when their projects lost money.

Now.. THAT is learning.

The PGPX program now.. c'mon. Thats the crazy. I have to be 27 to get in? Why? Age Bias? I've been working since I was 17, ran my own business, worked for 2 startups, and most a lot of people who've worked under me were over 27. The work-ex reqyuirement is understood, but what kind of college puts an age restriction? How is that fair? How is that something a reputable college does?


Anyway.. Congrats ISB :)
PG Posters.. don't be so militant pweese. IIM is still very nice.
PGPX can only qualify in FT Rankings when at least three batches have graduated. Right now, their second batch is graduating and third batch will start in April 2008.

I am copy-pasting below a link related to PGPX 2nd batch placements. Really impressive --- I think no program globally has managed to get such placements in its second year.

IIM-A`s executive batch gets CEO, COO offers

The third batch starting in April has 10 years of average experience in diverse industries like Mgt. Consulting/Banking/Manufacturing/Retail/IT Consulting/Automotive etc., approx 730 average in GMAT, about half of the class are people from India and the other half Indians from US/UK/Australia/Japan etc.

My belief is PGPX will start participating in global rankings from 2010 and based on everything I know they will be ahead of ISB.

Thanks.


It will be really embarrasing for students if IIM-A PGPX makes it to rankings ahead of PGPM.. coz for years PGPM has been the flagship course and PGPX has just started off... and hence PGPM is well known in market as compared to PGPX..

Secondly either of the courses are difficult to put into comparision wid other b schools...
- min work ex for PGPX is 7 years as compared 2 for most of the international b-schools... so its outright killing the compeition... and obviosuly then it shld fare better than ISB as well...
- for PGPM course, its strong biases towards CAT and hence freshers, makes the avg work ex really really low compared to B-schools... and hence it cannot come anywhere close to othe leading b-schools...

I believe that even if IIM A does not come into rankings it does not really matter - the purpose of both its course are being served well... And as long as the students are happy with the courses, the rankings do not matter...
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PGPX can only qualify in FT Rankings when at least three batches have graduated. Right now, their second batch is graduating and third batch will start in April 2008.

I am copy-pasting below a link related to PGPX 2nd batch placements. Really impressive --- I think no program globally has managed to get such placements in its second year.

IIM-A`s executive batch gets CEO, COO offers

The third batch starting in April has 10 years of average experience in diverse industries like Mgt. Consulting/Banking/Manufacturing/Retail/IT Consulting/Automotive etc., approx 730 average in GMAT, about half of the class are people from India and the other half Indians from US/UK/Australia/Japan etc.

My belief is PGPX will start participating in global rankings from 2010 and based on everything I know they will be ahead of ISB.

Thanks.


akshra_fate Says
u r right even i felt that.. at least PGPX could have qualified..i would like to know more on this if you can discuss it..
  • 1 Like  
True in the past, not anymore... what I'm really surprised about in this flamewar across a lot of different threads is that no one has talked about the fact that IIMA has a program called PGPX that is meant for those with 7+ years of experience.

Personally, since I'll qualify for this experience threshold by the time the next round of applications roll around, PGPX is the course I'm hoping to get through.


u r right even i felt that.. at least PGPX could have qualified..i would like to know more on this if you can discuss it..
One very interesting thing i found out was that both IIM's n ISB r segmented differently.. And one of the major points which we need to highlight is that IIM is not elligible for the FT rankings becoz "FT takes into account the incoming salary of students, which is absent in case of IIM's as they take freshers also"

So here the argument that y IIMs cud not make it to global ranking for so many deacdes.. n ISB did it in jus 7 odd years !IIMs do not qualify due to their intake of freshers.. although the same thing has been highlighted by fellow puys.. i wanted to giv my 2 cents on this
JAt the same time, however, I find it surprising that you have asked for people to take a look at the methodology and yet not analyzed it yourself. Understanding the methodology is very different from analyzing it to draw some conclusions about validity. Visit this blog to get some guidance on the areas where the methodology could use some improvement.

Let me wear a Suit. Please! necromonger @ INSEAD MBA Blog: Financial Times FT MBA Rankings 2008 - Analysis and Review Part I


Well, given that I do not represent FT, I do not require your offer of guidance to improve the methodology. Frankly, if you have any issues with this process, it will be really nice of you to write to FT instead.

And this post of mine that you have quoted was in response to people who were shouting their mouths off saying (due to whatever reason) that the whole ranking is fraudulent without even understanding how it was constructed.

Good methodology or bad, any Indian or Chinese B-school will score very highly on it due to the kind of salaries and salary growth alums from these institutes would have got. And of course 100% placement rates. That is one reason why you see 2 Chinese schools also in the top 20 ranks.

Further, whether I understood the methodology and analyzed it, whether I feel this is incorrect or not is something that is not discernible from my post because it was made for some other reason. So i do not see how you can claim whether or not I analyzed it or understood it. So my friend, stop speculating.

indianMBA2008 Says
Secondly, IIMA and IIMC have become more truly global in a sense by emulating other institutions by introducing both a "freshers" MBA program (PGP) and one for experienced candidates (PGPX/PGPEX).


No argument with that, I havent said anything to the contrary anywhere.....

indianMBA2008 Says
I remember reading an interview mbauniverse.com had held with the FT rankings head, where they said that PGPX did not qualify for the rankings because it's not been around for 4 years yet. If they were eligible to take part, their average salary of 22L would have converted to $240K. Do you really think that's a valid number? I suspect the only reason why the $169K salary figure for ISB was allowed to stand is because it wasn't drastically outside the salary range of other institutes.


It doesnt matter if it is valid or invalid as per me. I do not represent FT. But if PGPX programs were to be rated, and if this methodology is to be followed, then this might be the salary that will be quoted.

And your suspicion about whether the 169K was quoted by FT because it is" believable: is mere speculation. Unless of course you spoke to the FT team and they confirmed that they only quote numbers that look "believable".

Finally, in the same interview, the FT rankings head said that IIMA's PGP program would qualify for another ranking they have - the Master of Management ranking which is for programs with a high percentage of students without experience.

I think ISB's a great institute that has done a lot in a very short time. But get to #20 in the world? Not quite yet.


Good to hear that....

And Finally, this is a controversial topic and there will be people who will have different opinions, so my suggestion to people is to offer their viewpoints and accept that other will have different view points rather than offer unsolicited "guidance", which in my opinion smacks of arrogance. Given the nature of this topic and unending possibility of debate, this will be my final post on this topic.

Regards
True in the past, not anymore... what I'm really surprised about in this flamewar across a lot of different threads is that no one has talked about the fact that IIMA has a program called PGPX that is meant for those with 7+ years of experience.

Personally, since I'll qualify for this experience threshold by the time the next round of applications roll around, PGPX is the course I'm hoping to get through.

mbabuster Says
ISB deserves to be ahead of IIMA just based on the fact that IIMA takes freshers.
ISB deserves to be ahead of IIMA just based on the fact that IIMA takes freshers.
  • 1 Like  
Just started getting active on PG, and going through to figure out whether I would prefer ISB or IIMA/C's PGPX and PGPEX programs. I found this post interesting, so thought I would reply.

Agreed that FT is a very reputable paper, so I think we can eliminate "planting" a story. At the same time, however, I find it surprising that you have asked for people to take a look at the methodology and yet not analyzed it yourself. Understanding the methodology is very different from analyzing it to draw some conclusions about validity. Visit this blog to get some guidance on the areas where the methodology could use some improvement.

Let me wear a Suit. Please! necromonger @ INSEAD MBA Blog: Financial Times FT MBA Rankings 2008 - Analysis and Review Part I

Secondly, IIMA and IIMC have become more truly global in a sense by emulating other institutions by introducing both a "freshers" MBA program (PGP) and one for experienced candidates (PGPX/PGPEX).

I remember reading an interview mbauniverse.com had held with the FT rankings head, where they said that PGPX did not qualify for the rankings because it's not been around for 4 years yet. If they were eligible to take part, their average salary of 22L would have converted to $240K. Do you really think that's a valid number? I suspect the only reason why the $169K salary figure for ISB was allowed to stand is because it wasn't drastically outside the salary range of other institutes.

Finally, in the same interview, the FT rankings head said that IIMA's PGP program would qualify for another ranking they have - the Master of Management ranking which is for programs with a high percentage of students without experience.

I think ISB's a great institute that has done a lot in a very short time. But get to #20 in the world? Not quite yet.

The true mark of a person's maturity is not to shoot off one's mouth at something, but to understand and investigate it before stating your opinion. Do you think that FT is like some Rag Newspaper where you can plant your story for a few lacs?

My suggestion to people is to go to the Financial times website and read more about the test. Understand the methodology before trashing something.

It is quite obvious that the FT people have normalized salaries across the world (i.e. adjusted for purchasing power parity) in order to make an "apples" to "apples" comparison.

Heck, the avg salary last year at ISB was around 16 lacs, so it is plain obvious that they have taken $1=Rs 8 or 10 as the PPP conversion rate.

So folks...... understand the mechanics behind a story before trashing it completely.

End of the day, it should be a proud day for us all that an Indian Institute has made such a debut in Global rankings.

Peace.....
Hai friends,

I'm aspirant for 2010 ISB...i hv researched many insti's and ISB and IIM's are dream. I recently saw financial times 2008 mba ranking and wuz thrilled to see isb on top 20.....gr8 achievement kudos! but i also found some analysis Let me wear a Suit. Please! necromonger @ INSEAD MBA Blog: Financial Times FT MBA Rankings 2008 - Analysis and Review Part I whereby one blogger has analysed how isb became in 20 ....i wuz a li'l disappointed at the outcome.......has ISB deserved it really ahead of IIM-A or it is just fluke? but i still think ISB is a great mba insti.............i hope to get there in 2009-10:2gunfire:
The thing is that Management Education is all about broadening one's perspective about the world & then influencing it to achieve the desired objectives.This is easier said than done & to teach it one requires an optimum mixture of merit & practical exposure.ISB has been modelled on this very realization & so are the best B-Schools in world.Hence ISB is where it is.On the other hand,bureaucratic interference in IIMs often hampers the academic innovation & improvement so the IIMs cannot evaluate a person more holistically as ISB does during it's admission process.If the IIMs are given more autonomy regarding selection procedure they can also be like ISB & other world class B-Schools.

Other than this, there are factors such as extremely high GMAT scores. ISB's avg GMAT acceptance is way better tahn most top B-Schools. A healthy male:female student ratio given its based out of India. A 100% placement record that most international B-schools fail to acheive.


Hi tank_I,

I agree with most of your points stated above. In fact I do agree that ISB is rising exponentially and will make its mark once it gets more global exposure.

I do respectfully disagree that the rankings have been based on a high GMAT score. If you go through the criteria specified on the FT website: FT.com / Global MBA 2008 - Methodology: How the FT compiles its MBA league tables the GMAT is nowhere to be seen. In fact, the most heavily weighed parameters are, as you said, the Weighted Average Salary and the salary increase (%).

I wrote this on the issue: Progress in Life: Why is ISB ranked 20th in FT Global MBA
Kudos ISB !!

For those of you who still haven't figured out the $160k+ avg salary funda, here is some more gyaan.

To normalize financial studies across the world we use a concept called purchasing power parity or PPP. This figure for India stands at 3.27. In simple terms, with 1$ you can buy 3.27 times of what you will get in US.

Using this funda, the avg salary for ISB will be

20 lacs(after 3 yrs. of grad) = $ 51,300
$51,300(nominal) = $167k +

Other than this, there are factors such as extremely high GMAT scores. ISB's avg GMAT acceptance is way better tahn most top B-Schools. A healthy male:female student ratio given its based out of India. A 100% placement record that most international B-schools fail to acheive.

ISB is surely rising up that chart in future.

As for making wise choices. IIM(PGP) makes sense only if you dont manage a decent job out of college. Otherwise its always better to go through the grind of industry for a few years and then do an MBA when u actually feel a need for it.IIM PGPs apart from a few laterals end up getting entry level jobs and are bound to feel the need for another course when they are breaking into the top league.

Best time to join ISB - 3-6 yrs. work-ex (when u are targetting middle management roles)
Post that look for an exec-MBA frm either IIMs or some univ abroad (when u want to grab the senior mgmt. profiles)

Cheers!
To get things straight, IIMs & ISB are competing in two different areas... So lets not compare either of them, both are great in their respective arenas.. Its just that a person with 2-3 yrs experience might find it in his/her favor to join an IIM whereas a person with 5-6 yrs of work ex would find it in his/her interest to join ISB. Overall we should be happy that an Indian B School has made it into the world rankings... Congrats to ISB!

Just think on the lines of which companies would find it in their interest to recruit from IIMs and which would like to recruit from ISB, u'll clearly see a demarcation arising... :)..and of course there will be those that recruit from both campuses for different roles...
  • 3 Likes  
Given below is the link to an interview of FT London's Business Education editor, Della Bradshaw. The interview makes for an interesting read and clarifies many of the questions raised on the forum

The MBA Universe :- News & Updates

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