you had to send one PM to me so that i could have known that you filled the form... couldn't add you hence!

Please add me at varun.eces

You are added now but unfortunately only 2 people ( including you ) from across 3 slots scheduled today have turned up so far.

Calling off the sessions today!!

@ All genuinely interested in GD and mock PIs at skype
Please add me at skype: varun.eces

We shall be having with all those online at 10.30 pm on 22nd Jan, 2012 now. No slot distribution now, we will have simultaneous GDs organized at skype through different people from our team in case number of people turning up is high.

Cheers!

Do we have anything today Varun ?

I need good material for CAT/ GMAT preparation, please share some resources
Thanks

sorry for late entry ( just finished reading 43 pages of this thread )

Regarding the topic : Lokpal Bill : How successful is the idea to prohibit corruption

According to me Lokpal Bill can play a very imp role in decreasing the corruption to a certain extent.
Every body in the indian legislature is bounded by some rules which makes it ineffective to blame a particular corrupt organisation or a person. Even if it becomes possible the case is forwarded to our super - efficient judiciar system where the case files have more chances of playing in dirt rather than being worked upon. In this case a specialized body ( read : lokpal ) can be of help as it is clearly stated in the bill about the specific time period within which the desicion has to be made regarding a case.

Individual Feedback for GD on CSR Topic
catomania11
1st iteration - You started off the GD... it is expected that you will atleast say 1-2 lines on what is CSR before straightaway taking the stand on 2 options mentioned in GD Topic.

Please see that person starting GD should always try to explain the topic first to entire group in a line or two atleast. Also, please avoid words like ' basically' in your statements.

2n iteration - good response to sushant's point !

rags at work -

1st iteration - decent start but ' ITC planning to shut down tobacco business' , as far as i know from internal resources there is nothing in pipeline like this... so, while stating such points as facts it is always appreciated if you can also quote the source from where you read the same??

It is always good if you mention the facts with source quoted as it validates your statement.

vipin11

1st iteration - good start .. try to elaborate a bit more on examples put forth by you.

sushantvit
1st iteration - good start .. perfect entry :thumbsup:

2nd iteration - decent way to agre with what catomani11 responded to your point.

ankurbhargava07
1st iteration - Good perspective been brought up by you..some more elaboration on the same would have made it perfect !

2nd iteration - your response is kind of repeated point.. please say a new point while responding. Repetition is not preferred.

3rd iteration - 1st point mentioned was kind of repetition of what sakshi said and 2nd point could have been elaborated a bit more with example.

4th and 5th iteration - good point as response to Venkat's statement. Though, response could have been bit more elaborated for Sakshi's point.

sakshi kukreja
1st iteration - perfect entry Good to start with a relevant quote.. it immediately draws the attention ! Good examples for both sides of the coin!

2nd iteration - good and different perspective on CSR brought forward about internal work culture.

3rd iteration - ankur didnt illustrate the 2nd point with example and you carried it forward and gave an example. It is always appreciated as it reflects that you are attentive in discussion as well as know how to explain things as the example mentioned did the same.

4th iteration - good point put forth about CSR not being personal donations. People often get confused on this like it happened here and you caught it. brownie points here !

5th iteration - good point as response to comparison on Asia and developed countries.. though would have preferred if you could have given one example each to strengthen your case ( as you already gave quite a few examples, they were again expected. You gave example of Amul etc for Asia but none for west ). Also, examples always get you brownie points.

rest of the iterations - most of them are good ones. Appreciated the factors which you mentioned on CSR turning complex .

manikandanp
1st iteration - Kind of repeated point. As i have said earlier as well, pleasse try to come up with new points when entering slightly late. We have lot more examples on CSR beyond TATAs. So, try to explore a bit more on this front, shall be helpful for real GDs.

mrinalkvbr
1st iteration - you have used strong words like ' sheer capitalistic activity '.. you need to demonstrate such words with examples . You could have added examples and/or more elaboration.

2nd iteration - good points put forth this time... you should have started off with these ... good comparison of India and America

3rd iteration - good clarification on rags's point about ITC closing tobacco business.

4th iteration - tried to clarify your point on personal donations, but not a very valid one. Though a good try

venkataraman
1st iteration - late but good entry full with examples and especially the example from chennai based company also reflects that yo are aware of what is happening around in your region. :thumbsup:

2nd iteration - another good point. Was surprised to see that no one mentioned Premji so far but you brought his example.

3rd iteration - perfect point again... as i have heard you in skype session as well, surely i can see you doing good in GDs!!

4th iteration - another good point, example of Anil Ambani a new one. :)

rest of the iterations - decent responses yet again :thumbsup:

sakshi.shivi - good point on government doing similar tasks been brought up and decent explanation of the same.

shriraaam - quite late entry... few repeated points! Please take care on this front.

@ All who are of the view that CSR can be made legal obligation or should be legal obligation.
Just one point to ponder... corporates are already paying lot of taxes on what they are earning as profits plus they enhance employment! Why should they be made bound to spend beyond already paid huge taxes which are ultimately used for common people and welfare of society through government.

Just a point to say that it can be slightly biased against corporates if CSR is made a legal obligation.

PS: Shall be posting individual analysis on FDI discussion soon.

Request to all
Please start reading some stuff on finance updates from web sources, our next topic of GD shall be something from financial world

Cheers!

nitinkbhaskar Says

plz lemme know. i really want to pull myself up. also i didnt get any invite for the same. what else i have to do ??

you had to send one PM to me so that i could have known that you filled the form... couldn't add you hence! :

Please add me at varun.eces

|sid1989 Says

hey me 2 didnt get ne invite

You are added now but unfortunately only 2 people ( including you ) from across 3 slots scheduled today have turned up so far.

Calling off the sessions today!!

@ All genuinely interested in GD and mock PIs at skype
Please add me at skype: varun.eces

We shall be having with all those online at 10.30 pm on 22nd Jan, 2012 now. No slot distribution now, we will have simultaneous GDs organized at skype through different people from our team in case number of people turning up is high.

Cheers!

hey me 2 didnt get ne invite

nitinkbhaskar Says

i also filled the form for skype GD. but i am at ZERO level. would try to learn from others. is there a problem if i take part ?? :(

plz lemme know. i really want to pull myself up. also i didnt get any invite for the same. what else i have to do ??

Yes, it would be. We are engaged in lot of events these days apart from the helpline, so things got slightly delayed .. but none of the things will miss out is our promise.

Please be patient and we shall help you out to the best of our abilities! :)

thanks a lot, appreciate ur time and effort:)

seniors, will we have an individual feedback for each participant as well, i mean wrt to the FDI topic?
thanks in advance...

Yes, it would be. We are engaged in lot of events these days apart from the helpline, so things got slightly delayed .. but none of the things will miss out for sure.

Please be patient and we shall help you out to the best of our abilities!

seniors, will we have an individual feedback for each participant as well, i mean wrt to the FDI topic?
thanks in advance...

i also filled the form for skype GD. but i am at ZERO level. would try to learn from others. is there a problem if i take part ??

sid1989 Says

how to be a part of it, already given my skype id and other details

Please be patient... shall send you the invite after 9 pm for the same!

rohit1988singla Says

Please do come . It was really awesome :)

how to be a part of it, already given my skype id and other details

sid1989 Says

and what about the next skype session? i really want to be a part of it!

Please do come . It was really awesome

Following is the analysis for the GD topic
FDI in Retail: Only politically driven decision or a decision that can benefit India?

FDI definition:
FDI as defined in Dictionary of Economics (Graham Bannock et.al) is investment in a foreign country through the acquisition of a local company or the establishment there of an operation on a new (Greenfield) site. To put in simple words, FDI refers to capital inflows from abroad that is invested in or to enhance the production capacity of the economy.
Foreign direct investment (FDI) plays an extraordinary and growing role in global business. It can provide a firm with new markets and marketing channels, cheaper production facilities, access to new technology, products, skills and financing. For a host country or the foreign firm which receives the investment, it can provide a source of new technologies, capital, processes, products, organizational technologies and management skills, and as such can provide a strong impetus to economic development. The direct investment in buildings, machinery and equipment is in contrast with making a portfolio investment, which is considered an indirect investment.
FDI in retail:
FDI in retail can be segregated into the following two types:
Single Brand Retail: This would refer to (a) only single brand products would be sold (i.e., retail of goods of multi-brand even if produced by the same manufacturer would not be allowed), (b) products should be sold under the same brand internationally, (c) single-brand product retail would only cover products which are branded during manufacturing and (d) any addition to product categories to be sold under single-brand would require fresh approval from the government.
Multi Brand Retail: FDI in Multi Brand retail implies that a retail store with a foreign investment can sell multiple brands under one roof.
Periodical review of FDI:
The periodical review of the foreign investment policy by the Ministry of Commerce and Industry is required as it provides a mechanism to the government to consider the policy on investments into India in various sectors and also address concerns of investors which may act as a deterrent on an on-going basis. It should be noted that the periodic revisions should be gradual and not jerky to enable smoother adaptation to the changing policies.
Current position:
Following are the current stands taken by India in retail:
Single Brand Retail: FDI has been opened to 100% currently. The single-brand retailers setting up ventures with more than 51% stake will have to source at least 30% of the value of products sold from Indian small industries/village and cottage industries, artisans and craftsmen.
Multi Brand Retail: FDI in Multi-Brand retailing is prohibited in India.
Advantages of FDI in retail:
One could gather the following points for the requirement of FDI in retail sector:
Sourcing: The mandatory 30% sourcing from the local markets of India is already crudely followed in the present system and hence a huge change may not be perceived in the sourcing patterns. What could be focused on would be the increased emphasis on the market of the skilled artisans.
Inclusive growth: The present 5 year plans focus is on inclusive growth and FDI involvement could allow the increase in the same.
Food inflation: It is known that about 35-40% of fruits and vegetables, and 10% of food grains are wasted. With the FDI, newer technologies and efficient Supply Chain Management can be put into place thus allowing for decrease in food inflation.
Jobs creation: Newer jobs will be created to the tune of 1.7 million even if 10% extra people are required for backend.
Tax revenues: The exchequer would be able to generate more tax revenues.
Consumers: Consumers will be able to benefit largely due to competitive prices and an access to the products sought. This will allow for better engineered portfolio of products for consumption.
Impact on Kirana shops:
The following are the reasons why Kirana shops will not be hurt:
Presence: About 5-6 million Kirana shops of the total 8 million are present in the rural areas and will not be affected by the FDI in retail. The presence will be felt in mostly 53 cities only which are mainly newer settlements.
Adaptation: The Kirana shops have adapted from time immemorial to the changing economic weather and are expected to understand the consumers better to accommodate the new changes.
Credit system: Khaata credit system which is followed by the Kirana shops is modelled to follow the long tail strategy and thus would not lose the market share.
Share of FDI in Multi brand retail:
In the present scenario, 0% has been offered. For a smooth transition into the FDI, a small percentage is sought. The debate by the foreign companies is that without the 51% share, they will not be able to control the operations in an effective way. So it needs to be
seen as to what would be the right share that could be allowed at the moment.
Political view:
Opposition is regarded as the watchdog of the democracy by the Indian constitution. The Oppositions main role is to question the government of the day and hold them accountable to the public. The Opposition is equally responsible in upholding the best interests of the people of the country. The political parties are expected to debate on the issues and come up with constructive policies. Thus the political parties need to concentrate on the relevant fears and answer them satisfactorily in order to propose a well-balanced policy.
Present political scenario could be the reason for some baseless debates. But one could also sense the hidden fears of the public being reflected through the representatives which need to be allayed at the earliest. Education produces rational human beings, and the power of thinking develops the power to discriminate between good and bad. Thus, the call for the day is responsible criticism from all the stakeholders. If the Opposition behaves irresponsibly, and indulges in unhealthy, destructive criticism, instead of constructive discussions, the entire democratic fabric is endangered.

A vigilant public also plays the role of the Opposition. Democracy, after all, is participation in the administration in a responsible manner. The competition commission of India is enabled to participate in the formulation of policies and reviewing of policies relating to competition at the instance of the government is required to create competition culture is required to act as a competition advocate. Competition Commission of India will have to play a better job to regulate the new players on the basis of strategies and prices in the view of new challenges through FDI inclusion.

sid1989 Says

and what about the next skype session? i really want to be a part of it!

;)
Its tonite ,isn't it !!

By tonite!!

And also the individual analysis of CSR discussion shall be posted by tonite as well.

Sorry for the delay!

and what about the next skype session? i really want to be a part of it!

sid1989 Says

seniors wen can we expect the analysis of the last gd:)

By tonite!!

And also the individual analysis of CSR discussion shall be posted by tonite as well.

Sorry for the delay!

and baki public kahan hai, why just 4 or 5 of us, more ppl will mean more points:)

neways i urge everyone not to turn this into a debate. we all have healthy points, lets discuss them and maybe we can have a solution which benefits vre1 and is acceptable to all, we are after all vying vying to be the future managers of this country:)

i do agree with your point my friend, there has to be a change in the existing system but what i am tryin to say is that why do u consider that the bill will only be another in the long list? Why not consider it as Santa Claus which is there so that people "behave":)
anyways jokes apart what needs to be understood is that the bill by itself is not a solution to our problems, it can never be, there has to be measures taken with regards to some core issues.
Poverty, the rich poor divide, making people believe they have a stake in the governance, all these combined with the bill can make a change.
most People like money, they dont like being corrupt. Its at times a vicious cycle. If you can cut one thread, the other automatically falters

BTW , i don't get ur point of separating governance and corruption !!
Containing corruption is a part of governance !! You can't separate these two !!
BTW , If i hold your argument , if the LOKPAL fails,then would you add another body to take care of it!!
LOKPAL is only making the system more complex !!
And to be fair , you have forgot that the POLICE is a tool which completes the government !! Government in a sense is whole - the MLAs,the MPs , the POLICE , the CAG , the JUDICIARY system,the CVC ,the CBI ,the military, the citizens !!
By adding a LOKPAl ,you are just increasing a number in the above list !!
All the above are institution to protect the people !! I would say it is a joke to say LOKPAL will bring about a change,a leash of hope etc!!
Pls take a look at the above list !! We are talking about a gamut of institutions gone wrong !!!
Dont create another institution !! It wont answer the problems!!
We should revisit our judicial system and be judicious in elections !!
LOKPAL will only make things a lot complex !!

The Police is under state control,CAG is just an audit body,Judiciary relies on investigative agencies for its function, CVC again is only a body which can suggest, CBI is under central government , the military is for the defense of the country. Now if a minister does a scam who will prosecute him ?? My friend we have been a part of a joke for the last 60 years.Let us get out act together so that this circus ends somewhere.

I agree with u on the point that there is a strong need to look at the existing system and its flaws but i fail to understand why should the lokpal bill be made a scapegoat for ineffective policies existing till date.
THe bill is aimed only at corruption and nothing else, our MLAs and MPs are meant for governance:)
If i hold your argument, we should not even have the police and the CBI manning our politicians, since eventually we have elected our representatives:)

BTW , i don't get ur point of separating governance and corruption !!
Containing corruption is a part of governance !! You can't separate these two !!
BTW , If i hold your argument , if the LOKPAL fails,then would you add another body to take care of it!!
LOKPAL is only making the system more complex !!
And to be fair , you have forgot that the POLICE is a tool which completes the government !! Government in a sense is whole - the MLAs,the MPs , the POLICE , the CAG , the JUDICIARY system,the CVC ,the CBI ,the military, the citizens !!
By adding a LOKPAl ,you are just increasing a number in the above list !!
All the above are institution to protect the people !! I would say it is a joke to say LOKPAL will bring about a change,a leash of hope etc!!
Pls take a look at the above list !! We are talking about a gamut of institutions gone wrong !!!
Dont create another institution !! It wont answer the problems!!
We should revisit our judicial system and be judicious in elections !!
LOKPAL will only make things a lot complex !!

Moving further , if we see the genisis of Lokpal , it was by the first Administrative Reforms Commission (ARC) in 1966. What they wanted was to increase the efficiency of the system and make provisions for public grievances . We need to understand that maladministration and corruption are different problems . And what we need , is a reform for maladministration, because we already have reforms for corruption.
The Lokpal bill does not justify why is there a need to create a watch dog . Ammendments after ammendments will further delay the process of corruption only..what is the point of starting from the scratch for something we already have ? We can act speedily by giving more powers to the existing bodies and make anti corruption efforts a reality .

Yes , the LOKPAL of the last 50 years ,i.e.,MLAs and MPs have performed so efficiently that till now only one acting Union Minister has gone behind bars for corruption . There can be two reasons for this : Either we are a country ruled by such honest representatives that the need to put anyone behind the bars was not felt at all or the same reason for which we are 94 on the CPI as per Transparency International.We are having a close look at the system for the last 60 years but none has deterred our so called 'Lokpal' from doing a Bofors or a CWG or a 2G.
Moreover MLAs and MPs are not Lokpals in the real sense . They are elected to formulate policies for the welfare of people and the function of Lokpal is to check that they are not making laws for their own welfare.

exactly my point:)

In our Indian Democracy , the government is actually a 100-0 representation by the citizens (all citizens) by virtue of Polls !! If such an entity has failed ,it is time to study the reasons for its failure rather than creating a new body with a 50-50 representation !!

Dont you think ,there is a striking smilarity between the 100-0 and 50-50.The only difference that could possibly happen is when we assume that the 50% representatives of Civil society are genuine .Isn't that the same belief with which we elect our MLAs and MPs.When MLAs and MPs fail,what guarantees tha the 50% cicil representatives won't?
The proper way of answering this is by ensurin a stronger law for "people who contest elections" .People should not elect anyone,if they are not satisified with the available pool of candidates in an election.
It is high time the "India Penal Code" underwent a severe scrutiny.
The Laws are outdated and justice is delayed ,which is why coruption is on the high !!
LOKPAL is not the answer !!
A strong judicial system and a well thought out election process is the answer !! :)

I agree with u on the point that there is a strong need to look at the existing system and its flaws but i fail to understand why should the lokpal bill be made a scapegoat for ineffective policies existing till date.
THe bill is aimed only at corruption and nothing else, our MLAs and MPs are meant for governance:)
If i hold your argument, we should not even have the police and the CBI manning our politicians, since eventually we have elected our representatives:)

SID , that is not what I meant by deriving powers from government!!
The CBI till date has been an entity under the governent and suddenly even if it is given an independent status or moved under LOKPAL ,I dont think the government would be let go control of CBI genuinely !!
It will certainly be a case where the government would plant enough safety moles in the CBI !!

And BTW , what are the necessary changes you propose my friend !!
Infact we have to have a closer look at the existing system!!
The MLAs and Local legislatures are nothing but LOKPALs which have been created by the citizens themselves !! When such a body has failed, I dont think another body to do the same job will create a change!!

A country cannot have a 'watch dog' to watch another 'watch dog' !!
This will only slow down the entire system ,slowly the entire system will become a victim to indecisiveness or power struggles !!

Yes , the LOKPAL of the last 50 years ,i.e.,MLAs and MPs have performed so efficiently that till now only one acting Union Minister has gone behind bars for corruption . There can be two reasons for this : Either we are a country ruled by such honest representatives that the need to put anyone behind the bars was not felt at all or the same reason for which we are 94 on the CPI as per Transparency International.We are having a close look at the system for the last 60 years but none has deterred our so called 'Lokpal' from doing a Bofors or a CWG or a 2G.
Moreover MLAs and MPs are not Lokpals in the real sense . They are elected to formulate policies for the welfare of people and the function of Lokpal is to check that they are not making laws for their own welfare.

SID , that is not what I meant by deriving powers from government!!
The CBI till date has been an entity under the governent and suddenly even if it is given an independent status or moved under LOKPAL ,I dont think the government would be let go control of CBI genuinely !!
It will certainly be a case where the government would plant enough safety moles in the CBI !!

And BTW , what are the necessary changes you propose my friend !!
Infact we have to have a closer look at the existing system!!
The MLAs and Local legislatures are nothing but LOKPALs which have been created by the citizens themselves !! When such a body has failed, I dont think another body to do the same job will create a change!!

A country cannot have a 'watch dog' to watch another 'watch dog' !!
This will only slow down the entire system ,slowly the entire system will become a victim to indecisiveness or power struggles !!

the fact that u urself concede that the govt would be afraid to let go of CBI suggests that the bill has already brought a fear psychosis among the "babus":)
Regarding the changes, i strongly believe that there has to be a strong debate about the infrastructure requirement of such a huge project. that apart contentious issues like bringing the PM under the bill ambit need to be discussed too.
Actually what the bill can more generically do is put a fear among the corrupt that they may not get away easily, there is someone watching over them all the time. One might argue that there was already numerous institutions like the CBI etc doing the same job, but frankly speaking the track record of the existing institutions does not generate fear among the corrupt nor does it bring a sense of confidence among the prople. What the lokpal may do is make the people believe that they have a stake in the working of the system and that their voice will be heard. This combined with the fear psychosis i was taking about may really help the scenario in our country.
At time what is required is a CHANGE, a change the people believe and have faith in. There is no questioning the fact that people believe that there is a change required, this bill might just be the impetus and the CHANGE required.

sid1989 Says

Having a 50-50 civil society govt representation ensures that the bill is "for the people" and "of the people". most parties are today shunning the bill for the simple reason that they feel they would lose the sense of "POWER" to the civil society.

In our Indian Democracy , the government is actually a 100-0 representation by the citizens (all citizens) by virtue of Polls !! If such an entity has failed ,it is time to study the reasons for its failure rather than creating a new body with a 50-50 representation !!

Dont you think ,there is a striking smilarity between the 100-0 and 50-50.The only difference that could possibly happen is when we assume that the 50% representatives of Civil society are genuine .Isn't that the same belief with which we elect our MLAs and MPs.When MLAs and MPs fail,what guarantees tha the 50% cicil representatives won't?
The proper way of answering this is by ensurin a stronger law for "people who contest elections" .People should not elect anyone,if they are not satisified with the available pool of candidates in an election.
It is high time the "India Penal Code" underwent a severe scrutiny.
The Laws are outdated and justice is delayed ,which is why coruption is on the high !!
LOKPAL is not the answer !!
A strong judicial system and a well thought out election process is the answer !!

sid1989 Says

my friend the Lokpal bill is NOT under the govt, that is in fact its biggest differentiator. it will be 50-50 civil society and govt, that is the essence of the Lokpal bill. and u r right that most govt bodies tryin to maintain a vigil over the govt fail and that is the biggest reason to believe that the lokpal bill along with other necessary changes can bring about positive results.:)

SID , that is not what I meant by deriving powers from government!!
The CBI till date has been an entity under the governent and suddenly even if it is given an independent status or moved under LOKPAL ,I dont think the government would be let go control of CBI genuinely !!
It will certainly be a case where the government would plant enough safety moles in the CBI !!

And BTW , what are the necessary changes you propose my friend !!
Infact we have to have a closer look at the existing system!!
The MLAs and Local legislatures are nothing but LOKPALs which have been created by the citizens themselves !! When such a body has failed, I dont think another body to do the same job will create a change!!

A country cannot have a 'watch dog' to watch another 'watch dog' !!
This will only slow down the entire system ,slowly the entire system will become a victim to indecisiveness or power struggles !!

Sorry for being a late entry to the discussion . Some of my friends have said RTI is a failure really ? 2G scam was unearthed because of RTI,Adarsh was busted with the help of RTI and still RTI is a failure!! Agreed it takes time to deliver information for so many RTI applications but does that mean the bill is a failure ? It is one of the strongest weapons we have with us today . It not only has the teeth to deter the corrupt but also has given hopes to so many deprived souls who lost faith in the democratic institution our country .
Coming to Lokpal becoming an unmanageable body - If our information minister ,our high courts and many alike can think of supervision of social networking sites having billions of content by millions of users I fail to understand what is stopping them from thinking that some lakh employees can be overseen.Nothing can be perfect in the first instance , look at UIDAI - the flagship project anchored by one of the most successful business tycoons of our era has been at the receiving end of the Standing Committee of lately . Does this mean that the project should not have been launched at all ? Was our constitution perfect ?? How many amendments have been accommodated in the Constitution ?
Lokpal is no panacea for corruption but it is a medium through which ordinary citizens of our country can come out fearlessly in the open against the corrupt.It has been decades since the Lokpal is in Parliament coffers,it is high time the bill is passed .It will only be a start which will get refined as and when it is required .

having said all this, i do agree that there are some fundamental flaws associated with the bill.
For one it does pose a massive problem in terms of manpower availability, to maintain a vigil over such a large group.
Secondly there are issues of inclusion of Pm which may become a threat to national security..
also the fact that the lokpal bill is a magic wand which will wipe out corruption is a myth. But what the bill does most effectively is divide the power between the people and the govt which is in true spirit of democracy. Having a 50-50 civil society govt representation ensures that the bill is "for the people" and "of the people". most parties are today shunning the bill for the simple reason that they feel they would lose the sense of "POWER" to the civil society.

I agree with Sakshi!!
For that matter any new body which is formed to check the government deriving powers from bodies which have been under the government (e.CBI) till now will only fail !!

LOKPAL will be a failure !!
LOKPAL is in fact a mirage!! A false sense of power and justice!!

my friend the Lokpal bill is NOT under the govt, that is in fact its biggest differentiator. it will be 50-50 civil society and govt, that is the essence of the Lokpal bill. and u r right that most govt bodies tryin to maintain a vigil over the govt fail and that is the biggest reason to believe that the lokpal bill along with other necessary changes can bring about positive results.:)

Every bill / law talks of quick redressal . That sould be the very agenda of having a bill/law .
RTI as an Act failed to do so . The information commissions are being starved of resources. There are only six central information commissioners instead of the allotted 11, for instance, and limitations on hiring additional staff prevent them from clearing their backlog of complaints. Moreover virtually no department has voluntarily complied with the provision requiring proactive disclosure. Everyone from the Supreme Court to the Central Bureau of Investigation is fighting to be declared exempt from information requests. How can you call it a success ? RTI combined with CVC , with the help of CBI can do everything a Lokpal can do !

A lokpal will rather limit the use of CVC . Moreover when we already have laws to control corruption , why to spend the taxpayers money in establishing one more institution instead of correcting the previous ones ? This will be a reform ! This will be what the system needs ! Not the Lokpal Bill.

u actly answer your own question:)
all the problems associated with RTI u just mentioned are management or executive problems, nothing wrong with the bill per se. And i agree that the same problems may be faced by lokpal too, but that isnt a justifiable reason to shun it:)
i call RTI a success because 90% of the scams that are doing the rounds today have their bases in a RTI query:)

The fact that most govt bodies are tryin to duck the RTI itself speaks how powerful the act is:)
Anyways the fact is these problems will be faced by Lokpal too, infact we can learn our lessons from RTI and bring about neccessary changes which may facilitate proper implementation of lokpal bill

Every bill / law talks of quick redressal . That sould be the very agenda of having a bill/law .
RTI as an Act failed to do so . The information commissions are being starved of resources. There are only six central information commissioners instead of the allotted 11, for instance, and limitations on hiring additional staff prevent them from clearing their backlog of complaints. Moreover virtually no department has voluntarily complied with the provision requiring proactive disclosure. Everyone from the Supreme Court to the Central Bureau of Investigation is fighting to be declared exempt from information requests. How can you call it a success ? RTI combined with CVC , with the help of CBI can do everything a Lokpal can do !

I agree with Sakshi!!
For that matter any new body which is formed to check the government deriving powers from bodies which have been under the government (e.CBI) till now will only fail !!

LOKPAL will be a failure !!
LOKPAL is in fact a mirage!! A false sense of power and justice!!

Also ,in the present scenario -with so much of media attention and hue and cry and discussions ,the movement has not been able to attain a significance and everytime old man goes on a fast only to see a dwindling no of supporters !!
For instance, the MUMBAI chapter didnt receive the expected support and the reason was said t be that the working class of Mumbai were busy !!
When such a celebrated media event not getting a good support ,I dont think the same working class would be interested in supporting "every day " wars of the local LOKPAL bodies !!

well sakshi, just to put matters into perspective, i differ with u on the matter that RTi hasnt been successful. It has infact been one of civil society's biggest success stories till date.
it talks of accountability, quick redressals and public debate, thus making it probably one of the most effective bills having brought till date.
But yes at the same time i do agree that the bill alone wont do miracles, but what it will do definitely(that is if it is implemented effectively) is make a person think twice before taking a bribe. If the bill is brought and implemented effectively, it will lead to a feeling among people, that "Big People" cannot always escape the law, thus increasing public confidence in the system which would in effect lead to more adherence of laws thus leading to lower corruption.
But again i would like to reiterate the point, that the most imp tool against corruption would be to attack the cause, because prevention is always better than cure.

Every bill / law talks of quick redressal . That sould be the very agenda of having a bill/law .
RTI as an Act failed to do so . The information commissions are being starved of resources. There are only six central information commissioners instead of the allotted 11, for instance, and limitations on hiring additional staff prevent them from clearing their backlog of complaints. Moreover virtually no department has voluntarily complied with the provision requiring proactive disclosure. Everyone from the Supreme Court to the Central Bureau of Investigation is fighting to be declared exempt from information requests. How can you call it a success ? RTI combined with CVC , with the help of CBI can do everything a Lokpal can do !

A lokpal will rather limit the use of CVC . Moreover when we already have laws to control corruption , why to spend the taxpayers money in establishing one more institution instead of correcting the previous ones ? This will be a reform ! This will be what the system needs ! Not the Lokpal Bill.

Double post!!

2) Having Lokayukthas or local LOKPALs just creates a very huge network of people with power and hence creates or tends to create a sort of power shift or power check . This can turn out in any way - But seeing the way our legal systems work,the future looks leak!!
there is always a possibility of a sort of alliance between the LOKPAl and the LOKAYUKTHA .
If people cant agitate against the local MLAs and MPs, i dont htink they will against a local LOKPAL officer with the power and the support of LOCAL MLA..
That just makes the option worse.

double post!!

Going by the topic given for the GD ,I would say LOKPAL has not been a success in preventing corruption nor it will be .The reasons are as simple as stated below :

1) The 'Lokpal' is just the outcome of the continued perception of people that the epicentre of corruption lies with the government workers and having a sort of power to overview their activities with a provision for 'punishment' can eradicate or reduce corruption.
As I said this is only a perception and not the reality !!
The concept doesnot attack basic reason for corruption ie, a need or greed to accept bribe .
The need can come to anyone with an opportunity and how clean the LOKPAL members are ,they are susceptible to it !!We have to remember that the top enginners and administrators (IES and IAS) are the ones who turn corrupt and hence there is no easy way to judge the "honesty" of person .
Even being Biased is a sort of corruption and hence,Lokpal or for that case any legal body which acquires power will be prone to corruption !!

The idea to prohibit Corruption was a genuine one and was the need of the hour ...after a series of scams 2G,3G, Commonwealth Scam... Acquisitions of illegal properties it was indeed a step that has to be taken sooner or later.
And I think it is working to some extent.
There are Different type of Corruption that are going on in our country but we need to identify which are the ones that have to be attacked or taken care of first.
Anna Hazare movement brought people from Different Ethnicity to a common Platform where they stand against a common so called Monster of Corruption.
Everyone including anna hazare knows this fact eliminating corruption altogether from the system is not at all possible coz it rests in roots of the society so eliminating it all together will create a chaos and mayhem.
I Agree with Anna Hazre and the points made by Anna hazare committee but the way they have moulded this protest into Common Man Vs Corruption into Common Man Vs Government is what is to look into.
At present it has become Common Man Vs Congress/Political Parties.
My take would let government imply their Lokpal Bill, it would not as effective as the Jan Lokpal bill but it would sereve it purpose to some extent.
After that if people need that their is a need of any change amendments can be made in it...
Then Anna can definitely challenge the Government.
Right now the Whole scenario of fighting Corruption has become political and has lost its interest in common man.

seniors wen can we expect the analysis of the last gd:)

rhareeshkumar Says

i agree that the lokpal bill will bring transperancy in the system... But it should be passed first. When the govt. is ready to give 70- 80% of what is being demanded, why not let the bill pass first?? Team anna should agree up on a lokpal draft... And after it is implemented, if it proves to be effective, there is always a scope for amendment... There will never be a lokpal if this demand continues... Eventually everything will be forgotten...

well my friend the problem is if 70-80% of the bill is passed, and if it turns out to be a disaster(which i am sure it will considering that it would have no investigating powers in its current form), then the govt will easily find a reason to say that the bill was always flawed in the first place and thus would put it in the backburner.

I agree , we must be the change we wish to see in the world . But considering the history of our bureaucracy how will u ensure that Lokpal is free from the red tapism prevalent in our country . Or it will act fast ?
For that matter the idea of Right to Information act was as utopian as the Lokpal .What went wrong with it was that the govt. was flooded with RTI applications and could not handle it . How in such a scenario we can be sure that a Lokpal would not prove to be redundant ?

well sakshi, just to put matters into perspective, i differ with u on the matter that RTi hasnt been successful. It has infact been one of civil society's biggest success stories till date.
A lot of my colleagues have put forward the point that the Lokpal bill might turn out to be one of the 100 others that already exist and how do we ensure that it remains utopian?
Well i agree with you and the others on this issue but only partly. Yes u are absolutely right when u say that red tapeism may engulf this bill too, but if you look closely the Jan lokpal bill is one of the strongest and most complete bills been brought into the public domain.
it talks of having a mix of politicians and civil society members at the head, it has made provisions for including almost every person possible thus bringing into perspective both the big and small scams.
it talks of accountability, quick redressals and public debate, thus making it probably one of the most effective bills having brought till date.
But yes at the same time i do agree that the bill alone wont do miracles, but what it will do definitely(that is if it is implemented effectively) is make a person think twice before taking a bribe. If the bill is brought and implemented effectively, it will lead to a feeling among people, that "Big People" cannot always escape the law, thus increasing public confidence in the system which would in effect lead to more adherence of laws thus leading to lower corruption.
But again i would like to reiterate the point, that the most imp tool against corruption would be to attack the cause, because prevention is always better than cure.

i agree that the lokpal bill will bring transperancy in the system... But it should be passed first. When the govt. is ready to give 70- 80% of what is being demanded, why not let the bill pass first?? Team anna should agree up on a lokpal draft... And after it is implemented, if it proves to be effective, there is always a scope for amendment... There will never be a lokpal if this demand continues... Eventually everything will be forgotten...

eventually what happen with us after series of scam is we are losing trust to other indian...yes i m saying this being an indian .. india slipped 7 ranking in Corruption index within 1 year it is now at 94

the lokpall bill will help to eradicate corruption but not without us ... Jan lokpall bill is also an a issue because of infrastructure .. manpower and most imp CAPITAL...

30k people will going to work under this org ... and still we are not sure about the success

but yes there has to be some governing agencies .. because corruption is the main issue so we cant sit idle and just wait and watch...

the other things what government can do on the side ways :

Create transparency in the system ..the foremost imp

Yearly auditing of company can also be helpful

when there are time bound projects appoint some personnel to look such indifference

Create Awareness in the public to abolish ...

create stringent laws ... and democracy does have advantage and disadvantage..


so in my opinion we can remove this evil though it will take tym but this is for our better future and
towards better world

1. The leader who is fighting against corruption is concerned only with one side of the coin... The politicians... What about the people who r giving bribes????

Very rightly said. Corruption is a 2way process and only officials/politicians cant be blamed for increasing corruption. Remember for every bribe taker there is someone who is giving bribe.
This demands for greater responsibility on our part(as a citizen). We need to spread the awareness. On the one hand we talk about how corrupt our govt officials are and on the other we are ready to pay them bribe in order to get our work done. Though I wont go in this everlasting debate of ethics.

I would say none of the law can guarantee 100% removal of corruption, their are some loopholes in this lokpal as well.I am sure these can be taken care once we implement it and test it in real life scenario.But by looking at a broader perspective we should work on spreading the awareness and
Corporate in our country should become more responsible.

1. The leader who is fighting against corruption is concerned only with one side of the coin... The politicians... What about the people who r giving bribes????
2. The fight against corruption started by team anna looks like a political stint today... They started fighting against corruption and are ending up fighting against the congress. There is a decline in the number of people turning up to support these days...
3. The inclusion of the prime minister under the lokpal when he is in-house is bound to cause political instability (not germane here :P).
What team anna has to focus on is bringing back the support their movement once had. Otherwise the movement is going to die out...

framing policies and making institutional bodies in a way help to stop corruption but it all depends upon Us ...

I agree , we must be the change we wish to see in the world . But considering the history of our bureaucracy how will u ensure that Lokpal is free from the red tapism prevalent in our country . Or it will act fast ?
For that matter the idea of Right to Information act was as utopian as the Lokpal .What went wrong with it was that the govt. was flooded with RTI applications and could not handle it . How in such a scenario we can be sure that a Lokpal would not prove to be redundant ?

i think in india people are getting used to it ...

there are 2 type of corruption that is based upon there transaction :

one is daily corruption : we violate the law . give the police man 100 rs and go on ...this effect individual so at present

2nd is big scams and large scale corruption: like cwg and 2g or Satyam ... this will not hamper growth at present but will show real side effects after sum years ...because if such a huge amount is utilised in the proper manner things would be changed

but do our system support corruption : in a way yess

recently there is a event where DLF wants quick approval what did dlf did was submit extra amount with the copy and get quicker approval by Deptt of INfra and dev.

lets take a daily example :- tatkal scheme , or the passport registartion u pay more u get work fast and easier in a way so this ultimately challenged the psychology in the human that the short way is easier .


Mahatma Gandhi has said : We must become the change we want to see."

So the Change should come from our end ... atleast CVC are not going to deal in the matter of 100 rs corruption ..

and we know how fast is our courts ... recently there is a report that even if they worked in full efficiency they will take next 130 years to complete the due cases...


The Lokpall will frame a new System and will be at the top of the Lokayutta 's so who is going to ensure that the person sitting there is not corrupt

framing policies and making institutional bodies in a way help to stop corruption but it all depends upon Us ...

Lokpal Bill requires establishment of a body that checks for corruption in every sphere . Now corruption has been such a vocal problem in our country that everyone was facinated by this idea and thought it to be utopian . The tradition of corruption is dated back to the mughal era. We must concentrate on the points that is Lokpal the ultimate solution? What are the other bodies and acts like India Penal Code , CVC , CBI doing ? How will Lokpal ensure that it will eradicate corruption. Most importantly , considering loopholes in other reforms and judiciary system ..how will we ensure that Lokpal will survive from this problem ? Will it be a reality or a clause on paper ?

okk here goes,

our parliament has spent(some would like to call it wasted) close to two and more sessions on the lokpal bill. We have had debates, fasts, mass movements, "unpaid" people movements which are reminiscent of the Freedom struggle. The country has had a new hero, the anna factor swept aside almost all others, including our favorite bugbear cricket.
So the question arises what is this Lokpal Bill on which we have had such an unprecedented response from the "aam admi"?
well to put it simply its a law, an institution to look for corrupt, arguably stronger than the existing ones, which would eradicate corruption. Sounds simple?? well actually it isnt.
For one there is no common consensus on the major issue, that whether this bill will achieve its desired results. Whether a strong law would be good enough to stop another CWG or another telecom scam.
well i believe, the law by itself will and can not eradicate or prohibit corruption, for the simple reason that a law is meant to punish and prohibit the wrong, but it does not address the root cause.
The root cause of most ( and i dont at all mean all) corruption is poverty.
Consider this, our common hawaldar makes about 6 grand a month, seriously people, how is one expected to actually run a family, bring up kids, pay for their education, look after ones familys health, find a place to stay, get good food in just 6 grand???? result? Corruption. In all this i am no way justifying the corrupts act, what i am saying is that Lokpal bill can not by itself bring about an end to corruption. What we need in addition to a strong bill, is an urgent need to address the root cause.

lokPal bill : was proposed in the year 1968 . though it get passed in lok sabsha but cant get through rajya sabha ...

and ever since 1968 .. the govt prime goal changes to something else .. or i would say ruling party goal changes ..

Subsequently, lokpal bills were introduced in house but they were never passed even after so many years

now in year 2011 .. again this bill is in news but this time things were not the same the Team India against corruption introduced the Better or i would say strict Bill and Termed it as Jan Lokpal bill

Here goes the next topic for discussion We shall be posting the analysis of FDI topic in meantime!


Topic: Lokpal Bill : How successful is the idea to prohibit corruption

House is open for discussion!

Hi all

Due to certain reasons, we wont be able to conduct the session on Skype scheduled today. We shall be having it tomorrow.

Extremely sorry for the inconvenience caused due to it. :

Regards
Varun

|sakshi_kukreja Says

Sir , if every one is done with their points on FDI , can we have a new GD topic here ? Or is it only after the analysis of the first topic that the second one will start ?

Varun bhai, seems a nice suggestion. Could we have a new GD topic (if you're okay with it)?

Sir , if every one is done with their points on FDI , can we have a new GD topic here ? Or is it only after the analysis of the first topic that the second one will start ?

Hi all

Due to certain reasons, we wont be able to conduct the session on Skype scheduled today. We shall be having it tomorrow.

Extremely sorry for the inconvenience caused due to it. :|

Regards
Varun

hmm true... neways i am putting in my summary, any one else whos willing is most welcome:) here goes

I think FDI in retail is an issue which has immense benefits mainly in terms of providing a much needed economic boost, increasing employment and most importantly bringing about a sense of management and efficient structuring in our haphazard supply chain management. Ofcourse like most policies this one too has its share of problems most prominently the issue of farmers being marginalized, the issue of profits of MNCs taking centerstage, and local vendors being affected.
But if proper safeguards like gradual inclusion of FDI, proper Govt. tabs, regulations etc are implemented, then i am sure this country will surely reap the benefits of a much needed policy change

I pretty much agree with the gist, but would like to add that FDI issue should be handled with care by the govt and proper discussion and debate needs to be done before it's final implementation involving all parties concerned viz Different Political Party Representative, Corporate Houses, Farmers Associations, Civil Society members, Different Independent Think-tanks, and then after giving considerations to everybody's concerns, decide the best course of actions which takes care of everybody's viewpoints and choose the middle path which is more or less acceptable to all. Lest, It ends up becoming a big political tangle which despite it's best intentions and benefits end up in vane without any actions.

hmm true... neways i am putting in my summary, any one else whos willing is most welcome:) here goes

I think FDI in retail is an issue which has immense benefits mainly in terms of providing a much needed economic boost, increasing employment and most importantly bringing about a sense of management and efficient structuring in our haphazard supply chain management. Ofcourse like most policies this one too has its share of problems most prominently the issue of farmers being marginalized, the issue of profits of MNCs taking centerstage, and local vendors being affected.
But if proper safeguards like gradual inclusion of FDI, proper Govt. tabs, regulations etc are implemented, then i am sure this country will surely reap the benefits of a much needed policy change

I think that pretty much sums up my views!!