not to offend anyone but quotes like "its u who maters and not ur degree" are used when u are not able to make it.

very true AS ...
its the same story of fox and grapes are sour.

stories goes on .. wihic one is on majority and which one are the minorities .. cant be found out ...

its after all its what u believe .. u r free to choose ...

time will only tell ...

but then the catch is, that doesn't mean that a mediocre guy can't achieve all that....but chances are that opprotunities are gonna come by hard and not deffly easy by any definitions....!!

buddy..me saying the same thing....

I never blamed MBA...given a chance i wud be the first person to join a good MBA ....

And guys, don't take Surya seriously when he praises Wipro to the skies. I have worked elsewhere also before joining Wipro and I can assure you that this is not the zenith. But yeah, I will back him on one point. Nothing in this world is easy. Whatever line you choose, Marketing or otherwise, life is tough everywhere. Marketing gives you more of an oppotunity to explore yourself and evaluate options. It also gives you an amazing choice of lines and jobs to choose from.

Mike

buddy....me never praised Wipro to the skies...just it is a good place to work with...

but ....i am praising Sales and Marketing field to the skies.....

not Wipro......

Mein wohi socha ki tum log kis wipro ki baat kar rahe ho

I guess thats the deal with all large companies : They suck big time for munchkin level programmers.

But one thing about Wipro is its amazing training programs. One can be updated to almost any damn technologies (if he is benched that is ) through the training programs

Arun

well, i think we'r making much noise abt no issue at all....the fact that we all believe MBA adds value to our professional worth is well established...and that's the reason why we'r all here to pursue our respective post grads....

now i really dont understand what are we trying to prove by citing examples of xyz, CEO of abc Corporation who rose up the rungs without doing an MBA....??? or course, there are thousands of managers who might have done so, Read "I'd Like the Entire World to Buy A coke" by the legendary CEO Roberto Goizueta who as a chemical engineer later headed this top US corporation...

are we trying to say that just becuz ppl like Bill Gates, IBM CEO made it big with 2 penny of education, that holds that every Tom **** and Harry would be able to do the same....?? and Surya when u compared that MBA dude not being able to match his numbers and your cousin doing so in a jiffy...i'd like to say that there are just guys who want to do a MBA juz to cover their professional incompetency....stuff like i ain't getting a break here, lemme do an MBA and things shall just about be fine....well, i'm sure majority of the junta fall in this category....me included...!! and i can say that life ain't going to be hunky dory and bed or roses once we'r done with an MBA.....hell, if i dont slog i still stand the risk of not rising or at worse getting fired.....doing and MBA doesn't entitle u to lax your competency...!!

yeah, at the same side if there's a guy whoz a quality fella and really bending his balls and working real hard..chances are that he'll make better uses of avenues which will be thrown open once an MBA....which is what MVB meant, i'm sure....

but then the catch is, that doesn't mean that a mediocre guy can't achieve all that....but chances are that opprotunities are gonna come by hard and not deffly easy by any definitions....!!

ppl...

it z like this....

MBA is definitely an advantage.....but the Lack of it is not a disadvantage....

if you get a chance to do an MBA frm a good institute...go ahead and do it...nuthing like that......but remember that...even after MBA it is you that counts....

have seen many guys frm premier institutes to struggle a lot to meet their numbers....

there z this guy frm IIMB...my cousins colleague ( both in the same ranks...my coz is an Engineer....)...he z there in the same rank for over 5 years....he struggles to meet his numbers....where as my coz a just zipped through the ranks ..got two promotions in 3 years time....his pay almost doubled in these three yrs....


so....it boils down to .....if u have an MBA degree ..itz like a blind gene....u shd make it work.....it cant do wonders for you....you shd exploit its advantages....

itz like....if u r upto it...it does wonders for you.......

there is this product division head of IBM....whoz just a grad ( not even an engineer)...

how cud he make it?????????????

PS: Gautam....yeah you are correct.....itz easy to say that an MBA is not all that great when u cant make it.....

but.....believe me....I say it again....u shd be good enough to make use of it.....

cheers....

Yeah, but by this very logic and example you have proved that an MBA gives you a head start!!! That is the point being debated. No1 is disputing that you can theoretically make it wothout an MBA, but once again I repeat, this is WITHIN your organisation!!! How many jobs do you see in the market (at high positions) OUTSIDE your organisation where an MBA is not a pre-requisite????

Mike

ppl...

it z like this....

MBA is definitely an advantage.....but the Lack of it is not a disadvantage....

if you get a chance to do an MBA frm a good institute...go ahead and do it...nuthing like that......but remember that...even after MBA it is you that counts....

have seen many guys frm premier institutes to struggle a lot to meet their numbers....

there z this guy frm IIMB...my cousins colleague ( both in the same ranks...my coz is an Engineer....)...he z there in the same rank for over 5 years....he struggles to meet his numbers....where as my coz a just zipped through the ranks ..got two promotions in 3 years time....his pay almost doubled in these three yrs....


so....it boils down to .....if u have an MBA degree ..itz like a blind gene....u shd make it work.....it cant do wonders for you....you shd exploit its advantages....

itz like....if u r upto it...it does wonders for you.......

there is this product division head of IBM....whoz just a grad ( not even an engineer)...

how cud he make it?????????????

PS: Gautam....yeah you are correct.....itz easy to say that an MBA is not all that great when u cant make it.....

but.....believe me....I say it again....u shd be good enough to make use of it.....

cheers....

well if u call CEO of IBM and exception then go ahead with it ..
actually its no point discussing this .. its a never ending debate


history is replete with exmples from all domains .. undergrads, dropouts , postgrads, mbs , phds etc etc who have made big.

bottomline its u who maters and not ur degree/ qualifications

cheers
:)

just tell me are these ppl minority or majority ??



not to offend anyone but quotes like "its u who maters and not ur degree" are used when u are not able to make it.if u know u can make it big without an mba ...why waste two years ...better use those years in gaining more work experience

sorry for degressing

Gautam

Bang on dude! There definitely is a glass ceiling that exists in the industry. Before any1 starts harping about guys who have made it w/o a post-grad, lemme make it clear. There is an exception to every rule, but that exception does NOT change the rule!

Mike

well if u call CEO of IBM and exception then go ahead with it ..
actually its no point discussing this .. its a never ending debate


history is replete with exmples from all domains .. undergrads, dropouts , postgrads, mbs , phds etc etc who have made big.

bottomline its u who maters and not ur degree/ qualifications

cheers

uRmad Says

Can a non-MBA really dream of making it big quick in today's highly-competitve atmosphere? Doubtful.

err......not really addin much to the discussion here....but talking of an mba.......yest while on the train, met a person who had been working with a leading electrical company for over 20yrs....was into project mgmt, supply chain mgmt, tendering et al.....diverse but in senior roles...was only an electrical engr all along......but after so many years of hard core prokect mgmt xp, he felt the need for an mba coz to him, it was a lot more than a degree....it was also a visa to greener pastures in his orgn.....his reasoning was cut to the minimal......to break the ceiling at top levels u need that mgmt orientation in ur thinking.......and best way to prove that is to have an mba in ur back pocket.......did his mdp at iima a few years back and since has switched into a completely new field in his company since....... :)

Cheers

Bang on dude! There definitely is a glass ceiling that exists in the industry. Before any1 starts harping about guys who have made it w/o a post-grad, lemme make it clear. There is an exception to every rule, but that exception does NOT change the rule!

Mike

MvB ACM No9 Says

Can a non-MBA really dream of making it big quick in today's highly-competitve atmosphere? Doubtful.

err......not really addin much to the discussion here....but talking of an mba.......yest while on the train, met a person who had been working with a leading electrical company for over 20yrs....was into project mgmt, supply chain mgmt, tendering et al.....diverse but in senior roles...was only an electrical engr all along......but after so many years of hard core prokect mgmt xp, he felt the need for an mba coz to him, it was a lot more than a degree....it was also a visa to greener pastures in his orgn.....his reasoning was cut to the minimal......to break the ceiling at top levels u need that mgmt orientation in ur thinking.......and best way to prove that is to have an mba in ur back pocket.......did his mdp at iima a few years back and since has switched into a completely new field in his company since....... :)

Cheers

And guys, don't take Surya seriously when he praises Wipro to the skies. I have worked elsewhere also before joining Wipro and I can assure you that this is not the zenith. But yeah, I will back him on one point. Nothing in this world is easy. Whatever line you choose, Marketing or otherwise, life is tough everywhere. Marketing gives you more of an oppotunity to explore yourself and evaluate options. It also gives you an amazing choice of lines and jobs to choose from.

Mike

buddy....me never praised Wipro to the skies...just it is a good place to work with...

but ....i am praising Sales and Marketing field to the skies.....

not Wipro......

Hmm....nice points raised here. I'll go pointwise in this 1.....

1. Ace, I am not under the impression that an MBA will catapult me into senior management and strategy stuff. But an MBA will enable me to bypass the glass ceiling and will open newer avenues for me.

what glass ceiling u r talking about : :


isint the example of CEO of IBM not good enough that there aint any glass ceiling what so ever

:)

When you look at the corporate world today, there will be people at the top who rose from the ranks, but how possible is it today??? Every ad you look for which advertises a senior management post mentions MBA as a prerequisite.

Again, all these guys started in the same company as they are in today. How many of us are sure that we will never shift???? And let me tell you that NOBODY at the top who has risen from the ranks has risen in the ranks of one company and reached the top in another.

Also, how applicable are the rules of the 70s today? Can a non-MBA really dream of making it big quick in today's highly-competitve atmosphere? Doubtful.

How many consultants do you see who don't have an MBA?

I have seen guys getting calls from KPMG losing the job because the guy he was competing with was an IIM grad!!!! So you can not discount the value of an MBA today, specially if it is from an IIM.

And guys, don't take Surya seriously when he praises Wipro to the skies. I have worked elsewhere also before joining Wipro and I can assure you that this is not the zenith. But yeah, I will back him on one point. Nothing in this world is easy. Whatever line you choose, Marketing or otherwise, life is tough everywhere. Marketing gives you more of an oppotunity to explore yourself and evaluate options. It also gives you an amazing choice of lines and jobs to choose from.

Mike

Hmm....nice points raised here. I'll go pointwise in this 1.....

1. Ace, I am not under the impression that an MBA will catapult me into senior management and strategy stuff. But an MBA will enable me to bypass the glass ceiling and will open newer avenues for me.

what glass ceiling u r talking about : :


isint the example of CEO of IBM not good enough that there aint any glass ceiling what so ever

:)

yeah Ace.....I completely second that....

there r no ceilings....only Sky is the Limit.....

and the CEOs name...Palmisano.....

Hmm....nice points raised here. I'll go pointwise in this 1.....

1. Ace, I am not under the impression that an MBA will catapult me into senior management and strategy stuff. But an MBA will enable me to bypass the glass ceiling and will open newer avenues for me.

what glass ceiling u r talking about : :


isint the example of CEO of IBM not good enough that there aint any glass ceiling what so ever

ppl...

Marketing and Sales in any cos is the same ...irrespective of the Co.( except in MS..where ppl really meet their targets... )....

first thing u shd have the heart for it....itz a bad world out there....

but one thing buddies.....u learn a lot if u r in sales and marketing....

u see all the kinds of ppl....u get to a level where u can listen to anything whether u like it or not.......some ppl call it maturity....

and u can grow very fast if you r willing to...

and Wipro...

man itz a good co with lot of scope for growth...because...you have the option of switching between the jobs....many ppl shift frm Sales to Consulting etc...though after working for considerable time....

but buddies dont expect to be a Phaneesh Murthy momentarily.....it takes time and the field experience matters a lot....u learn real things in life there....donnno abt others but I leaned a lot as a field guy.....

ppl might belittle you saying that...You r a Sales Man....but..ppl worlds richest man is a Sales Guy....only things is that he has some unparalalled skills.......

guys dont think that this job gives u that and that job suxs....

u ll njoy ne job only when u have a heart for it and want to excel in that field...

sales is a struggle in the starting yrs...but after that....itz really worht the struggle....

i have seen many coders remain as coders throught their lives....but ...never seen a sales guy to remian in the same post for ever....untill and unless he is a Chickenshit.....

Hmm....nice points raised here. I'll go pointwise in this 1.....

1. Ace, I am not under the impression that an MBA will catapult me into senior management and strategy stuff. But an MBA will enable me to bypass the glass ceiling and will open newer avenues for me.

2. Sales job at HCL. Interesting one. The thing that you can be assured of is that beginning there will equip you to be successful ANYwhere. Gruelling or not depends on how you work and in what segment you work. I had an easy life. Looked after the corporate sector, concentrated on 3-4 major clients and used to meet and exceed my numbers, while internally projecting my in-depth knowledge of IT as a heightened advantage. PM me and I'll send u my mobile number. This thimg is too long to post here.

3. Arun, if you move into software/solution sales, you should be able to leverage your present experience to get a decent post. You can also try an internal shift of profile which is pretty easy at Wipro.

4. Nils, I am in Wipro Infotech.

5. I am speaking purely from experience. However for those interested in sales, Reliance Infocomm and Tata Tele also have good posts with high pay-packages. The jobs there are more of field work and low on technology content, but that's a call you guys have to make.

Anything else, I'd be glad to help out.....

Cheers!
Mike

I'm in the Marketing division at Wipro, Mumbai. Dude, first things first. Do you really want to do sales????? It's a f*cked up job and really irksome. Unless you re willing to roam around in the sun and visit all sorts of idiots (customers!) and listen to all sorts of trash (ur customers as well as bosses and collegues) from all sorts of idiots, all day every day, it's not the job for you.

If you are looking at a "Marketing" job, as in a boardroom job where you discuss strategy and all that, wake up. I fell into that and that's why now I need an MBA to get me outta sales and into Marketing!!!!!!

Mike

Relax pal .. me too used to think on the same lines a year back, that I should be in the driving seat with deciding all strategy and stuff like that ..
but friend one needs to start from the ranks and then rise..

one has to do all this shit or rather know how to deal with this .. in the start so as later he knows how to manage it.

no one is going to give u the command of the machine right from the start unless he is sure that u are the one

if u think MBA would make u do all that .. then think again of doing an MBA .. cos a fresher in MBA also has to do all this .. they also have to visit the market .. take the shit of customer etc etc ... and thats where these IIM mbas lack .. they think they are above all this and prefer to stay awaay from market .. insted foucs on making power point presentations .. and then thats the end of them..

ill give u a very pertinent exmple of this ..
the biggest IT company of the world (revenues wise) ... hmm IBM his CEO forgetting his name started just like u from ranks and 1973 .. he joined IBM as sales executive .. selling servers and stuff .. exactly the same work u do ... he was from John Hopkins univ ..

the he went on to rise .. headed almost all the departments of IBM .. held various senior posts and now in 2003 is the CEO of the biggest IT company of the world .. drwaing 10 millinons dollars of pay packet per year ...

NO MBA degree he has whats soever

can things get better than this ...

have patience and perseverance

cheers

Gr8 to hear such details abt my beloved company...

well I m in to s.w dev with Wipro Technologies...MVB, u with Wipro tech or Wipro Infotech???

thats also matter a lot...

well guys, wipro tech is recruiting people for s/w dev as well...I was one of the panelist on last saturday...
if anyone is coming for it...PM me...I guess the registration is over...but will be more than happy to help out PGs...

hey MVB, PM me man....there r many wiproites on this forum I guess...

Okay, Im thinking out aloud here.

I have an MCA degree from a decent place with decent acads (at Masters level). Needless to say I have a B.Sc. degree from a decent place with horrible acads.

I had a 15months break after B.Sc when I worked at a small place (cybercafe cum computer retailer) to earn some pocket money and have a workexp letter from them. Since passing out from MCA, I have about 36months of solid workexp in development (mostly maintenance) and am currently working as a Project Engineer at Wipro Technologies.

My point is I think Im not too much of a tech-oriented guy. I am more of a sales/mktg guy. But at this point in my career I dont want to start off too low down the ladder (I mean its like wanting to be a doctor now just beyond my scope and timeframe). Any suggestions how or what I could do ? Esp for those in mktg.

Arun

hey

i am a computer engg with poor acads and no wor ex.would like to pursue a career in mktg.....need a job in sales in Mumbai...can anybodyhelp me out...will help a great deal.. thanks a lot

hey mike,
so u worked in hcl infosys is it?? me got a sales job there too.. tell me abt the work there dude.. i'd like to know how it's gonna be.. really tedious??

please reply man!

aravind

hey mike
i am from mumbai and have a call from their andheri(e) office...and if you say that the job will be primarily field....i have thought of not going for the interview...

Hmm....the Andheri (E) office (Saki-Vihar Road) is the office where the services team functions from. The sales gfuys work out of the Vile Parle office. Who is the person (as in designation and division) who's issued the call? That should give an idea of the role you have been considered for. Also, if you have s/w workex I really have no idea what they have considered you for. Dunno if I'm late in responding to your post, but you could go, check it out and then decide whether you want the job. All the best.

Mike

hey mike
i am from mumbai and have a call from their andheri(e) office...and if you say that the job will be primarily field....i have thought of not going for the interview...

this is some thread man!!

I have been in IT sales for 1.5 years now.. our line of business is datawarehousing and business intelligence solutions.. working for a company called saama technologies...guys think twice aboput comming to sales specially in IT ( cant comment about other verticals) .. its sad scene out here.. man its march end now ( quater ending ) and you can feel the temp rising!!

its not that you dont have opportunities.. i get calls form consultants like anything for a new job.. but then dont get carried away that sales managers have no work.. only their targets are more than the sales reps!!

but marketing is a diff picture altogether.. and hence to get out im joining scmhrd this year

cheers
Shashi

hey mike

thanks for the info...i have an interview from them tomorrow..thought i would go and give it a shot..have a year of exp in s/w dev and an offer from iflex..b
interested in marketing and with cat screwed up thought this kind of a job would be good for mba prospects...
anyway dont want a field job

anil Says

so MVB.. what sort of peepz does Wipro look for S&M; Jobs ??? and the type u mentioned in the 1st para.. its a sales-man job rt ?? so whats the diff. b/w a sales manager and a sales man.. I know the answer.. but whats the diff. takin Wipro into consideration..?

1. Wipro, HCL or any IT organization will generally look for Engineers (in the non-MBA ranks). In freshers, they look for people who have good communication skills, are not brilliant in their acads (those r the types who'll run away n do an MS :D:D ) They want people whom they feel can face pressure, deadlines and can talk to a wide variety of people easily.

2. Yeah, it is a "salesman's" profile, but trust me, a "Sales Manager" is just a promoted salesman. You'll never be SMgr w/o being a field guy. And even as a Sales Mgr, you will continue to go visit customers and all that.....except that now you will also be responsible for cleaning up behind your subordinates.

3. From a Wipro perspective, I'll define a typical Sales Exec and his Mgr.: The SE will go dig out customers, talk to them abt their reqmts, talk about why he should buy from Wipro, blah blah blah. He will also figure out the hierarchy of the orgn. His Mgr will make visits to the cust. and meet all the ppl there. He will co-ordinate the pricing offered, the negos that will happen etc etc. The Mgr will do this for a number of Execs reporting to him and will be answerable to the mgmt for the performance of each of his subordinate SEs.

Whoof. Long post....

Mike

so MVB.. what sort of peepz does Wipro look for S&M; Jobs ??? and the type u mentioned in the 1st para.. its a sales-man job rt ?? so whats the diff. b/w a sales manager and a sales man.. I know the answer.. but whats the diff. takin Wipro into consideration..?

Hi

can anyone tell me how is a job in Marketing and sales in wipro...anyone working in that dept in wipro, please shed some light about the nature of job etc etc ...

Thanks

I'm in the Marketing division at Wipro, Mumbai. Dude, first things first. Do you really want to do sales????? It's a f*cked up job and really irksome. Unless you re willing to roam around in the sun and visit all sorts of idiots (customers!) and listen to all sorts of trash (ur customers as well as bosses and collegues) from all sorts of idiots, all day every day, it's not the job for you.

If you are looking at a "Marketing" job, as in a boardroom job where you discuss strategy and all that, wake up. I fell into that and that's why now I need an MBA to get me outta sales and into Marketing!!!!!!

As for getting in, I did not get in as a fresher. HCL (Infosystems) recruits freshers (Engineers) and I got a job on campus. After a year of working at HCL, Wipro made me an offer with a 33% higher pay....so I jumped after all, 25K a month in hand (+ incentives of 1.25L pa over n above) ain't so bad after 15 mths workex!! :D:D:D:D:D:D

What's ur profile though? Where are you based and which division do you want to join in the Sales/Marketing team?

Mike

Ok so as long as we toking abt jobs at WIPRO...tell me...how do u get a job there
I mean ne decent jobs besides call centre ones for B.Com 1st div grads in Wipro?