You see this is the level of crypticness i am more comfortable with

K

@all others. This is just a bit of juvenile humor that is very characteristic of two very cynical and slightly insane buggers with a liberal dose of Post CAT euphoria...

@DG glad that I cud oblige

convolutedsignal Says

When did I ever say after? And this is actually a matter of fact when it comes to consulting atleast Will not hold good if u take say Chemical engineering or civil

You see this is the level of crypticness i am more comfortable with

K

convo Yaar good work... But you cant disguise your enormous verbal and DI skills by trying to say this clearly that after the top three IITs its BITS Now I am not saying you are not right... But I believe you could be should be more cryptic than this...

Anyways back to this thread... I think Consulting is quite sexy a field and along with finance i banks one of the only good reasons for joining a Bschool...
Maybe more after I learn more gyan from you consult studs...

K

When did I ever say after? And this is actually a matter of fact when it comes to consulting atleast Will not hold good if u take say Chemical engineering or civil

convo Yaar good work... But you cant disguise your enormous verbal and DI skills by trying to say this clearly that after the top three IITs its BITS Now I am not saying you are not right... But I believe you could be should be more cryptic than this...

Anyways back to this thread... I think Consulting is quite sexy a field and along with finance i banks one of the only good reasons for joining a Bschool...
Maybe more after I learn more gyan from you consult studs...

K

Ok I thought I'd kick back some life into this thread by posting a little bit about Strat consulting..

What is strat consulting?
Basically advicing companies on their strategy. Usually very specific to a certain area, HR, outsourcing, M&A; and so on. The higher you go the more the companies need to pay. So its usually a case of swoop in , understand the mess, give sum data backed gyaan on how to clean the mess, actually clean the mess if the company asks you to and finally charge 200 dollars an hour while doing it

Who works there?
Contrary to popular perception, you don't necessarily need an MBA to work for a strat consulting firm. Every consulting firm has a divison of analysts working to back the consultants with specific data and also to provide a research backing in the form of syndicated research on specific markets/industries . A good proportion of analysts are engineers in addition to the regular MBAs. Also graduates from well known colleges also stand a good chance in the support category.

What do they do?
I am sure none of the MBA's are reading this so let me address the better half of the population- the engineers. You will have to analyse data. Simple no?? Not really. Very few engineering colleges in India have a hard problem solving approach to teaching and so not everyone will find the job of making some sense out of a bunch of data easy or appealing. Also it is my personal experience that other than students from colleges which test your problem solving ability others find it tough to get through the case studies. The thrill of the job lies in the challenge that you face every day trying to give some structure to some arcane piece of unstructured data. Of course there is a great deal of searching involved. In google we trust. But at the end of the day there is a certain degree of mental satisfaction involved like the one you get after solving medium level SUDOKU

What's the life like?
Pretty good actually. Most consulting firms are US based and do believe in concepts like a 10 hour workday and free weekends. Moreover the lifestyle is good because of added perks (healthclub, golf, theatre) The pay is good. The good thing about the pay is that they give you you what they claim and the bonuses are extremely performance oriented..and u get what u deserve.

So the BIG question; How do you get in?
India is on the verge of becoming a research hub (in the consulting context). The cheap cost of an Indian analyst is a major factor apart from our brilliant engineers. Most consulting firms take pride in the number of engineers they hire and India has abundant talent. Unfortuantely they are also very elitist because consulting firms byt default operate on a league mentality. So bein an IITian(the top 3) or a BITSian helps. I know a good number of Stephanians also in the hunt. You need a capability to analyse. Try the case studies at www.mckinsey.com or www.bcg.com . www.vault.com is an international portal for MBAs. and they have some really good articles and goodies for consulting jobs. try out the case studies. Get the ability to give shape to any form of unstructured data. Example: How many marriages happen every year in Delhi? Think about it.

I have put in a few points which I felt were of basic nature. Please note that the above points need not be relevant to IT consulting or operations consulting. And anyone who wants further info please use the thread to post questions. Will be helpful to all.I am also on the look out for a few research analysts (1-2) you have to fit in all the above qualities and so do pm me only after confirming this.

hehe... thread dying a slow death... goes to show how few ppl ppl are actually into consulting..... its a boon as well as our bane i guess.... as in it keeps u "exclusive" at the same time restricting the job opportunities...

as to the work i do... involves a lot of statistics... lot of number crunching..... lot of forecasting...... and unlike other types of consulting usually the cross questioning is lesser bcoz the clients are ignorant abt the field

dude, I doubt there's any kind of work I'd like more than consulting... I have been following this thread almost since it began... struck me as being one of the most intersting topics on PG! But I don't have any exerience in this field! biding my time... Will love to look into this and then get some gyaan...

For some reason, I don't see my self working at an established company... at least in the beginning... have been with a start-up for the past 18 months and theres something great about growth that I would like to have in a job post MBA... my dad's at this blue chip... all sorts of clout, benefits and all but such companies are too risk averse for my liking... even if they do new stuff, its along tested lines...

What I like about consuling is exactly the Problem Solving that is inherent in it... i would like to be at a Crisis-workout Specialist... thats usually an I-bank's area of course but the nature of work is consulting...

hehe... thread dying a slow death... goes to show how few ppl ppl are actually into consulting..... its a boon as well as our bane i guess.... as in it keeps u "exclusive" at the same time restricting the job opportunities...

newaz..... i am a business analyst in a very small consultancy which is in a very niche area..... while small has meant that my job responsibility is more, at the same time the brand name is missing... but then i guess our work more than makes up for it...

as to my background.... i am one of the ubiquitous engineers from IIT..... and while even the role of analysts is taken up by MBAs now, some firms still hire engineers..... thankfully but then i know an MBA is imperative if i am to make it BIG in this field..

as to the work i do... involves a lot of statistics... lot of number crunching..... lot of forecasting...... and unlike other types of consulting usually the cross questioning is lesser bcoz the clients are ignorant abt the field

newaz... so guyz in strat consulting like convolutedsignal... wht is the kind of projects that u handle?

nw, thtz sounds a vry captivating thread, thnks to Arun,
Well adding my 3 cents on this theme wud be, tht Consulting is one fo the most Taxing and exigent Jobs we have in any sector these dayz.
and something which i hv nt done since [Oct 2004] moi Joinin Date wud b my Official Intro
me an Enggr:whatthat: working with an US based Offshore Consulting Firm :huh: @ERP domain,bt has a pipelined exposure on Business analytics too, the adage of being an Consultant doesnt really rationalize in terms of ur Work exp[ as some1 earlier said] bt rather the Creme de Experience which counts majorly.
Me planing to get into the Strategic Consulting, bt the deflating angle being tht am still an Non-MBA.
Nw wnt to have some gyan frm biggies here @ Consulting, hv got a call from an an Major Consulting Firm who's got an Amazing startlets of IIM & Havard guyz on its board
Co. Applied: INDUCTIS
Role applied :would be as of an Associate Consulting in Marketing Strategy (Customer Segmentation, Customer Value Improvement, Driving Loyalty, Marketing Optimization, etc.) concretely into the IT arena.
can some1 throw a bit lite over the Co. brand image or the growth prospects..
Newayz wud b looking fwd for regular inflow of post @ this thread.

-Dilip-

A nice thread indeed by Psycho.

Off late I had been receiving PM's from many members about ERP, Consulting in ERP, and the job profile after an MBA in ERP. I shall try to answer a few queries based on my 1.5 years of experience in SAP an ERP Product.
I am not an MBA and joined as a fresher but was trained in Domain processes like Supply Chain Management, Finance, and Accounting, SD etc. I shall speak more from the Technical point of view of ERP.
There are 2 types of Consultants in SAP, Functional Consultants and Technical Consultants. MBA is not obligatory for either. But an MBA starts off his/her career as a Functional Consultant depending upon his/her area of specialization like MM, Logistics, PP, FICO, HR. At the same time, the FC will be generally trained in the technical aspects of SAP because Functional and Technical areas of SAP run hand in hand.
A Technical Consultant of SAP usually works on ABAP which is Advanced Business Application Programming. Depending upon the business requirements of a particular module, the TC customizes the already existing SAP code. For doing this, the TC looks up to the FC. Similarly, for the core technicalities of SAP, the FC will look up to the TC.

In a typical scenario, the Business Analyst or a FC designs the business logic for the client and the TC customizes the ERP Package as per the requirements by adding or removing code. It is at this place that the 'Consulting' comes in where the Business Analysts or FC's help the client choose the 'to be' business for obtaining the best results through leveraging the concept of the ERP Product. There are different ERP Products like SAP, Oracle, Baan, JD Edwards but which ERP product to go for is generally decided after looking at the 'as is' business and the nature of the business of the client.
Generally manufacturing companies go for SAP, Banking and Financial Institutions for Oracle Financials and Construction companies for JD Edwards. There can be deviations in these though. Once the ERP package the client wants to go is decided, the 'as is' business is thoroughly analyzed and the Business Analysts advice the client regarding the 'to-be' business. Once the whole process of analysis is done and the 'to-be' business is decided, an agreement is made with the client, which accounts for the targets which the Analysts promise. This is followed by the customization of the ERP package by the FC's and TC's.

My two cents about what I had experienced at my company.

Vijay

Anyway, I ain't got much to contribute here, except for this very funny line that I read the other day from this site

Hmm, If ya think thats funny, u oughta read the Dilbert take on consultants...wicked n sooo full of malice

Whoa !! Some interest in consulting I guess Never seen a thread in this forum generate so many posts so fast ;)

Anyway, I ain't got much to contribute here, except for this very funny line that I read the other day from this site

What do consultants do?
In terms of level of difficulty, the question is arguably next only to Freud's legendary doubt-what do women want?

Cheers

ps: btw, dontya guys think "strategy" is a thoroughly abused word in general, and more so when it comes to a field like consulting

pps: Wetfeet guides would give a pretty broad idea of consulting....Although they take a spoon-feed approach

Enlightening discussion this.. as snan said.. not all claimants to mgmt consulting do strategy consulting. Mck & BCG are the only ones among top tiers having sizeable presence in India. Mck has arnd 150 & BCG would be less than 100 in India. Not sure of the verticals they work in India but Mck does a lot of work for State & Central govts.

Some useful links for a high level gyaan on consulting.. Nothing specfic though ..

http://www.careers-in-business.com/consulting/mc.htm
http://www.managementconsultingnews.com/
http://www.consultingmag.com/
http://top-consultant.blogspot.com/

& the usual suspects like the vault/wetfeet guides to consulting careers.

& psychoD.. regarding your query on consulting scene at ISB.. we've been slowly building strength in strat consulting. Mck offered 6 jobs last yr, BCG 2 or 3, Marakon 2, Diamond Cluster 1 & then the rest like ATK, E&Y;, IBM BCS, Accn, Deloitte, PwC, Sapient & some boutique firms. Booz Allen & Bain didnt come last yr. Overall, pretty wide variety of offerings if you're interested in consultig & have the grades.

Now that's some detail. Actually even when Accenture and the others in that rung get strat consulting , the work is more on the sourcing strategy than any real high level strat work. btw Hay does HR consulting and organisation strategy right? Do they work on Indian clients?

BTW curious to know a few things:

(a) The list of pure consulting companies based out of India.

(b) Also, what kind of work is McK doing here ? Biz Consulting or Data crunching to provide stats to supplement their core work done out of elsewhere ?

(c) In the list provided for consulting companies recruiting from BSchools, why is ISB (pardon the cliche') conspicuous by its absence ?

Arun

PS: Just mailed Suhas about this thread. Now he is a guy who can provide a lot gyaan here

Hey thanks, psycho for mailing me bout this..

Apart from mck and BCG we have atk/monitor/kpmg/pwc/E&Yaccenture; etc..but again lot of them are not "pure" consulting firms - E&Y;'s strenght wud be more accounting related stuff and corporate finance...but then Mck is also eyeing at corp fin engagements in India -recently formed a corp fin group...so the lines are fast getting blurred

MCKC does the data analytics part for foreign and domestic engagements of Mck..but Mck per se does strat and operations work mostly in India.(Just like anywhere else)....they also have an organistion practice (same case with BCG)..Hay has only organisation practice/strategy decode & implementation as far as consulting is concerned....
Lot of firms like CRISIL / ICRA have their business advisory section - which essentially is similar to what the big firms do....so options are a lot...Then one also have firms with specific market focus like Feedback Ventures in Infrastructure, KSA Technopak in Retail. Another interesting player is TSMG - started of as captive for TATA but now have clients outside of the group...
IBM BCS, Accenture,Deloitte etc do not do high end strategy work...they can be said to be doing derivative strategy - defining systems/MIS/IT backbone etc taking the business strategy as given.....They often claim they also formulate the biz strategy too but i dont believe they get a lot of engagements in that..:)

Though there is this perception that strategy consulting is the most "intellectually stimulating" I guess each of them have elements of stimulating work as well as laborious data crunching and interviewing and presentations...at least in the analyst level.

I think McK have recruited from ISB but probably the list was their key long term partner schools and hence IIM A...btb they also recruit frm B and C in India atleast for finals though they stick to only A for summers....

a) I think u r referring to the India offices. Then we have Mck, BCG, Accenture, Everest, TPI and a host of boutique firms.
b) Biz consulting. That data crunching part is done by their Delhi office. MCKC (Knowledge center)
c) Its a list only for Mckinsey not all the firms. Not aware of ISB's strength in this field though.

And Suhas is goin to Hay I suppose. IIMA guys have all the fun

hey ... by anychance.. u checking ur messages box ??...

Better4worse

thanx for d insight
is it a KPO or something??? Can a non MBA, non engg guy workin in a KPO enter this field???

Its not a KPO. Kpo's do not do consulting . They normally take on custom projects of usually small sizes.
Non MBA, Non Engg wud find it tough but not impossible though. I have a guy in my office who is just a grad from Stephens. quality work experience though.

BTW curious to know a few things:

(a) The list of pure consulting companies based out of India.

(b) Also, what kind of work is McK doing here ? Biz Consulting or Data crunching to provide stats to supplement their core work done out of elsewhere ?

(c) In the list provided for consulting companies recruiting from BSchools, why is ISB (pardon the cliche') conspicuous by its absence ?

Arun

PS: Just mailed Suhas about this thread. Now he is a guy who can provide a lot gyaan here

a) I think u r referring to the India offices. Then we have Mck, BCG, Accenture, Everest, TPI and a host of boutique firms.
b) Biz consulting. That data crunching part is done by their Delhi office. MCKC (Knowledge center)
c) Its a list only for Mckinsey not all the firms. Not aware of ISB's strength in this field though.

And Suhas is goin to Hay I suppose. IIMA guys have all the fun

BTW curious to know a few things:

(a) The list of pure consulting companies based out of India.

(b) Also, what kind of work is McK doing here ? Biz Consulting or Data crunching to provide stats to supplement their core work done out of elsewhere ?

(c) In the list provided for consulting companies recruiting from BSchools, why is ISB (pardon the cliche') conspicuous by its absence ?

Arun

PS: Just mailed Suhas about this thread. Now he is a guy who can provide a lot gyaan here

Ahem..U make me sound like a kid. I am a BE from BITS Pilani and had an offer from a KPO (Evalueserve) on campus. I went around asking people about what would be an ideal career path. We have an amazing aluni network and I got talking to an alumnus who is currently in Mckinsey USA. He referred me to McK Mumbai and at the same time to my current firm which is smaller (30 in India) but offered a better package and greater growth opportunities (this is not a cliche!) . I went through bothe the processes simultaneously and after the first round was kinda convinced about my current firm and chose to value suitablity over brand name (for now of course) . I dropped out of Mck's process got placed here after 6 rounds of interviews ( 3 of them Case interviews). I have had the opportunity to work in international assignments already (we do not have indian clients ) and have started heading my own agenda. So I guess am happy with the choice I made. My company has just arrived in India and so in the 4 months I've been here already become some sort of a senior. I am of course not a consultant full time and carry the of a research analyst. Since I work in teams on consulting assignments anyway I guess I am a consultant too albeit a rather inexperienced one.The job offers you the level of challenge enough to keep on you on your toes eternally and also the chance to work with the sharpest minds around. Its good fun for now but I need an MBA fast cos I don't think I can last for more than 3 years without an MBA in this business. So thats my story.
Have any specific queries pm me. I am not very comfortable discussing my firm's name in a public forum.

thanx for d insight
is it a KPO or something??? Can a non MBA, non engg guy workin in a KPO enter this field???

Hi folks,
I am looking to the following profiles after doing my MBA, am appearing for CAT and other tests this year. Apart from the IIMs', which b-schools in India would typically be offering opportunities in treasury, risk mgmt., analytics, non-IT consultancies (I am a plain vanilla graduate). I'm primarily interested in finance and Economics combinations in MBA, I know SCMHRD and XLRI do offer these combos'. Hope to get reply from you folks soon.

Hey dude,

To start with ...update us with ur background..how u got into the firm..and then moving onto the kinda work u do? I believe ur all of 22 ...and already a consultant.

same goes for "vaguefunda"....guys enlighten us with the kinda work u do ?

Better4worse

(PS : Arun...... thanks mate... for this new thread on consultancy!)

Ahem..U make me sound like a kid. I am a BE from BITS Pilani and had an offer from a KPO (Evalueserve) on campus. I went around asking people about what would be an ideal career path. We have an amazing aluni network and I got talking to an alumnus who is currently in Mckinsey USA. He referred me to McK Mumbai and at the same time to my current firm which is smaller (30 in India) but offered a better package and greater growth opportunities (this is not a cliche!) . I went through bothe the processes simultaneously and after the first round was kinda convinced about my current firm and chose to value suitablity over brand name (for now of course) . I dropped out of Mck's process got placed here after 6 rounds of interviews ( 3 of them Case interviews). I have had the opportunity to work in international assignments already (we do not have indian clients ) and have started heading my own agenda. So I guess am happy with the choice I made. My company has just arrived in India and so in the 4 months I've been here already become some sort of a senior. I am of course not a consultant full time and carry the of a research analyst. Since I work in teams on consulting assignments anyway I guess I am a consultant too albeit a rather inexperienced one.The job offers you challenge enough to keep on you on your toes eternally and also the chance to work with the sharpest minds around. You have to know your numbers and be ready to be challenged at any point of time. The perks are good ( I have my own golf club membership and regular wine tasting sessions ) Its good fun for now but I need an MBA fast cos I don't think I can last for more than 3 years without an MBA in this business. So thats my story.
Have any specific queries pm me. I am not very comfortable discussing my firm's name in a public forum.

convolutedsignal Says

Me in a strat consulting firm..Do let me know if I could be useful. Actually lookin for a few people for right now in consulting (Post MBA) and analyst (post BE) positions..LEt's hope this thread works out well

Strat consulting ? Impressive. Do you do it for clients in India ? What are the pre and post MBA differences in your company ?

I work in an IT consulting company. So what it basically means that we go one step ahead of munchkin code writing and interact a lot with our clients. Our value proposition is based on various things. Among them, the chief being "doing what makes sense" even if means a lot of pain and a Fixed-time-fixed-price approach in outsourcing for almost all the projects.

BTW, got this link, sign up for a free copy:

http://management_consultant_international.consultingcentral.com/vsf/international_consulting

Arun

convolutedsignal Says

Me in a strat consulting firm..Do let me know if I could be useful. Actually lookin for a few people for right now in consulting (Post MBA) and analyst (post BE) positions..LEt's hope this thread works out well

Hey dude,

To start with ...update us with ur background..how u got into the firm..and then moving onto the kinda work u do? I believe ur all of 22 ...and already a consultant.

same goes for "vaguefunda"....guys enlighten us with the kinda work u do ?

Better4worse

(PS : Arun...... thanks mate... for this new thread on consultancy!)

My desig says "IT Consultant" but I aint doin much of consulting as of now. I plan to get an MBA and get into the Functional/Business Consulting space. In case my MBA plans dont quite materialize, plan to make the move to ERP consulting (am currently more on the implementation side)

If u r nt too strict abt privacy issues, dare i ask which one ?

me in a boutique consultancy..... non MBA.. Business Analyst..... but practically a consultant what with carrying out whole projects on my own....

Ive pmed u

Here's a business week news report on Mckinsey's target schools

McKinsey & Company
Number hired: 385

Schools where McKinsey & Company hired MBAs:
(Click any school name to see profile, including top 15 recruiters) School Number INSEAD 91 University of Pennsylvania 48 Columbia University 47 Northwestern University 38 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 26 University of Chicago 21 UC Berkeley (Haas) 11 IESE Business School 11 London Business School 10 University of Michigan 10 Oxford University 10 Indian Institute of Management Calcutta 7 Virginia (Darden) 7 Yale 7 UNC Chapel-Hill (Kenan-Flagler) 6 UCLA (Anderson) 5 Carnegie Mellon 5 Duke University 5 IMD 5 Indian Institute of Management at Ahmedabad 5 Dartmouth College 4 Erasmus University 2 ESADE 2 University of California, Irvine 1 University College Dublin 1

convolutedsignal Says

Me in a strat consulting firm..Do let me know if I could be useful. Actually lookin for a few people for right now in consulting (Post MBA) and analyst (post BE) positions..LEt's hope this thread works out well

If u r nt too strict abt privacy issues, dare i ask which one ?

me in a boutique consultancy..... non MBA.. Business Analyst..... but practically a consultant what with carrying out whole projects on my own....

Myself, a Business Intelligence Consultant.
For those new to the jargon, data analytics or market anlytics might help.

Me not an MBA.

Me in a strat consulting firm..Do let me know if I could be useful. Actually lookin for a few people for right now in consulting (Post MBA) and analyst (post BE) positions..LEt's hope this thread works out well