Hi Chindoo
u probably don even know me or may not even read this post!! But let me tel you sumthing that came from my hear .. Thank you boss .. Youve have motivated me to ultimate levels!

1 more thing I dont thing your VA is so bad & it doesnt always needa topper to give advice !
Your post & effor was out of the world
All the best 4 future .. my best wishes r with you !
chow
luv nd luk
namit

Lessons on the road to B-School Part I

First things first, a clarification: this isnt an attempt at a how-to guide for MBA preparation no one, least of all yours truly, would be in a position to come up with such a generic tips-n-tricks handbook. Neither is this intended to be some sort of inspirational gyaan there are plenty of been-there-cracked-that seniors, instructors, well-wishers and more experienced CAT-takers who could be applied to for that. This is just a simple and honest chronicle of the months and weeks before and after I took CAT, appeared for interviews at four b-schools and finally managed to secure an admission. Encapsulating the entire experience and all that Ive learnt from it, in just a few paragraphs isnt easy but given that I wouldnt want this piece to substitute for sleeping pills, Ive made a conscious attempt at space control. Part 1 deals with the first half of the battle the written exam: CAT. The second part will be dedicated to the next round the group discussions and interviews.

CAT or GRE?
This is unarguably the number one dilemma most third year engineering students are faced with. Take GRE, stay tech-focused and hop continents; or take CAT, wave pleasant good byes to engineering and jostle for space with a billion others right here in India. Decisions are often governed by many factors other than just interest and aptitude the latest IIMA foreign salary reported in the previous days newspaper, the US software job situation, the MS funding scenario, the is MBA better with work-ex? argument and so on. Happily for me, the choice wasnt all that difficult after the phenomenal amount Id been learning in college from the most outstanding faculty in a top-of-the-line engineering institute, I could think of nothing but taking CAT!

Getting off the blocks
Six months of preparation, two hours a day, is sufficient to crack CAT. Needless to say this wisdom came from a leading coaching class. I wouldnt say theyre wrong, but Im uncomfortable with the generality of the claim. One size never fits all there are many individual factors which should determine how much time you need to put in for CAT. I always had it at the back of my mind that CAT and my seventh semester exams would most likely clash, and felt more comfortable budgeting more than the conventional six to eight months. When the great Mumbai University announced two final semester exams on either side of November 21st (CAT day), I felt relieved Id given myself the extra time allowance.
Lesson: 150,000 people may take CAT every year but theres no need to match your preparation schedule with the other 149,999!
Down to the Nuts and Bolts
Goal setting, self discovery, visualizing yourself treading the corridors of Blah Blah Institute of Management the first few weeks at any coaching class is likely to be full of such inspirational sessions. Im sure these pedagogical techniques have some sound theoretical foundation, but personally I found them to be a waste. To a certain extent succeeding in CAT is about self belief and motivation, but isnt that the case with everything? Its far more important Id say to get cracking with the nuts and bolts of the exam: Quant, English and DI.
Lesson: Cut through the hype and hoopla surrounding CAT. You dont have to be a Zig Ziglar to achieve a decent score (and by the way, neither do you need to be a Shakuntala Devi!)
QED: Quant, English and DI!
The first rule of CAT preparation, I was told, is that all sections of the test are equally important. Theres nothing to be achieved by cracking two sections and goofing up one. There is perhaps enough evidence now to cast serious doubts on the credibility of this conventional wisdom, but nevertheless its a useful thumb rule to follow. I didnt find anything a huge struggle but wasnt particularly extraordinary in any one section either (even my final result pretty much indicated that!).

Quantitative Ability: They say all engineers are good at Maths. Id like to stick my neck out and say that they have got it wrong! At most, theres no discomfort with numbers because of constant exposure to them but an engineering degree certainly doesnt inculcate any special numerical powers. My personal quant barometer fluctuated through my preparation quite dramatically initially I found the going good, then I hit rock bottom once the practice tests began, only to recover towards the end (and thankfully on d-day!)
English/Verbal Ability: Probably my most comfortable area the only advice Id give anybody is: READ. Im more of a newspapers and magazines guy, but I made an effort to lay my hands on different types of books. Apart from being the best way to tackle RCs, I think reading is a great vocab builder any day preferable to mugging enormous word lists.
Data Interpretation: DI is perhaps the trickiest section of CAT. Unlike the other two sections, no one generally ranks DI as their biggest strength or biggest weakness. I was never particularly fond of the number crunching caselets, so I looked to score in the analytical reasoning questions. As it happened, CAT eventually delivered something which fell somewhere in between these two categories and left me quite stumped!

Lesson: Dont assume you are good or bad at anything. Solid practice is far more important than believing your aptitude or background will see you through.
The Mock Tests
Practice tests are undoubtedly the most important phase of CAT preparation. They give you a feel of the real thing and highlight weak areas much faster than any amount of non-test practice can do. The first thing the mocks did for me is show me the Quant mirror cut offs of 10 marks out of 50 were hard to achieve and this was demoralizing to say the very least. All I can say is that Im glad I persevered even after those pretty severe setbacks. But its not just about hanging in there its about improving! Thats where the importance of analyzing tests once theyre done cannot be over-emphasized. Most analyses lead to the irritating, but at the same time encouraging, observation that more than a dozen easy questions exist in every section but have missed ones kind attention. Perfecting the art of sitter spotting is the key, I would say, to scoring well in CAT.
Lesson: Use the mocks wisely. Use them to discover strengths and weaknesses and to formulate a strategy for the big day. Many people fret about the second decimal places of their mock test percentiles this is pretty pointless if not accompanied by some serious introspection.
Leading up to D-Day
The most stressful part of the entire preparation for me was the time just before CAT. Much to the exasperation of the student community, University exams had been announced to coincide beautifully with CAT. And preceding them was the usual rigmarole of submissions, class tests and vivas. There was little time now to go through new topics (Permutations & Combinations being the first casualty!!) and the Mocks and home tests were all that I could manage. The only time I could seriously relax was the day before D-Day, when at the cost of my Advanced Microprocessors paper two days later I decided to hang up my boots and watch some TV!
Lesson: Its ideal to finish off exam prep well in advance so that CAT can hold prime importance in November. But having spent four years in engineering college, I can safely say this is IMPOSSIBLE! So there is no real option but multi-tasking the most important of those tasks being praying!
And then it was done
The paper was a shocker weighted marking for the first time ever in CAT, 123 questions for the first time ever in CAT, sub-sections for the first time ever in CAT, DI with no conventional DI yikes! My first thought on seeing the paper was: CAT 2005. My next thought, two hours and 60-odd attempts later, was: CAT 2005.
Lesson: Never expect anything from CAT except a frequent change of stripes!
Results and Missed Calls
The time I logged into the CAT results web site of one of the IIMs, was the first of many tense moments of the last six months. I found that a number was now associated with my name: 99.34 percentile. Actually, there were three other numbers as well Quant: 98.9, DI: 94.58, Verbal: 97.31. The initially feeling was one of ecstasy I had, after all, outperformed my mock CAT scores!
The next morning though, was like being yanked from the clouds right into a rabbit hole. One after the other, five hallowed Indian Institutes of Management flashed a rather impolite Sorry, you have not been shortlisted for GD/PI message. Only IIM Calcutta, for some reason, deemed me fit for the next round of their selection process.
Lesson: Two consecutive days are capable of delivering two absolutely opposing emotions!
But the others came a-calling!
After the five missed calls (or would wrong numbers be more appropriate?), there was plenty of why didnt I make it analysis. Actually, to be honest, it was more like why the &#$% didnt I make it! Each time I almost managed to convince myself that my DI score did me in, Id come across people with lower DIs and Ahmedabad calls! And then there were lower verbals and Indore/Kozhikode calls and lower everything and Bangalore calls!!

Thankfully, things just looked up from there on. I got calls from all the other institutes I had applied to: SP Jain, MDI and NITIE. Things were now really looking up ... it was time to shoot out of gloom and begin preparation in right earnest for the four interviews I was shortlisted for!


Coming Up (hopefully soon!): Lessons on the road to B-School Part II: The GD/PI experience

After having taken CAT a couple of times, i think i can surely lend some tips to future IIM aspirants. Well, I had started with a percentile of 97% in my first casual attempt at CAT (real CAT) which came down to 93 in the second more serious attempt (thanks to DI). Having finally made it to one of the IIMs this year here is my ten cents of input.
Well, to begin with i was not very good at Verbal, real good at quant and unpredictable with DI. My strategy for CAT was something like 45-50 min. for Verbal (to clear cut-offs) , 30 min. for quant and 40 min. for DI. I nearly always managed to clear verbal and quant cut-offs but struggled with DI which was somewhat unreasonable since i was pretty good at quant in general. The basic flaw which i have identified is the strategy lot of us apply to the DI section. I personally (very strongly) feel that the key to cracking the DI section is in sticking to timelines (close to a question a minute), mugging fractions, tables and attempting max. sets. I realised that a compromise on accuracy still seemed to work for me (since the net score still shot up if i stuck to timelines). I think the mindblock or the DI scare is the main impediment. No wonder, once i changed my strategy i had soon shot into the comfortable league of people with 20+ marks from previous individual scores of 12-16 at max. Also, another important observation was that it is important to keep trying our hand at tests from various institutes since these tests have their individual pros and cons. The IMS tests help u build on accuracy but CL tests are really good for building up on speed. Last but not the least, the old mantra of experimenting with various strategies really helps in identifying what works best.

Njoi

hey people,


just thought i would share this you guys; my two cents worth :)

Prep for CAT 2004.

Belling the CAT:

Joined my company in july, and was working hard for the first 2-3 months..I had pretty much decided that CAT wasn't going to work out as it was already october and i had not started the prep yet. That was when one of my cousins who is an IIM alumnus pumped some sense in my head, and i realised that a month's hard work might just see me thru, and now i realise, that the prep in that last one month, is the one that really matters.

Since i started late, i didn't have time to go thru the IMS Basic reading material (BRM) or any other notes.. Most of my preparation was through tests. I started out with the section tests in Math, Verbal and DI. Used to do one to 2 sectional tests a day on weekdays, depending on how late i got back home. Around October end, I started giving full length tests- atleast 4 per week.

Preparing only through tests may seem like an ad-hoc way of going about it, but here is why it worked for me:

The most important part of the test, is the post test analysis. I put in an average of 1.5 hours solving the remaining qns in the test, and then i made a grid with the Q Nos. and the type of qn (eg. geom, avgs, %ages etc.) just to find out what my strengths were. Also this helped me recognise what kind of problems i usually got right..and what kind i usually goofed up in, where i needed to put in more effort, where i needed to brush up my concepts..

in CAT, there are some qns that one shouldnt even touch. (for me these qns were Simple interest/compund interest) This exam is about taking a look at as many qns as possible. I looked at every question beginning from the first- if i didnt know how to solve it within15 seconds, i would leave and go to the next. If i knew how to solve it, but it wasn't working out even after 2 minutes, i would leave and go to the next. And after the test, i would realise that these qns were well left, coz they gave me time to do other questions.

These are just my strategies. It may or may not work for someone else, but who knows...it might just help.

My split up of time was 30 minutes Verbal, 45 minutes Quant, and 45 minutes DI. i sucked bad at DI.. somehow a lot of practise helped me. Actually, even in the actual test, i had a lousy performance in DI. But it worked out, and i'm not complaining.

GD/PI:

Then, in around end of december, i got calls from all IIMs except B. Now there was a task at hand- I had to improve my GK. Believe me, in 22 years, i had rarely read the newspaper! So i spent the next three months reading newspapers (TOI, ET) like there was no tomorrow. didnt read any business mags though.. i barely had the time.

Brushed up on my BE project, picked up a bunch of subjects from engg and browsed thru the chapters, read up on my favourite authors etc.

Did a lot of introspection and came up with long essay answers for the B school forms (man, that was a pain!)

Basically in a B school interview, there are 5 broad areas they want to cover.

1. You

2. Acads/ work ex

3. Extra curricular

4. Career plans

5. General awareness

1 is clearest, and 5 is the vaguest. I tried to make sure i concentrated on all of these.

My GDs were always ranging from good to near perfect, and PIs from horrendous to fabulous :)

Finally converted all the calls i had, and now joining A
What i realised was, that it is not important to answer all their questions.. if you don't know, the best thing is to tell the panelists. "i dont know". If the question is a riddle/math puzzle, atleast think about it for a couple of minutes before you say "i dont know".

It is better not to make excuses/blame the system for your lack of knowledge. Just make sure you come across as a person with clarity of thought, with firm views on matters of concern, which are based on facts and not on bias.

Whoa.. I have gone on and on.If you have managed to reach this point...you must be a tolerant person of boring long mails! Thanks for giving it a read :D

cheers,

mad.

CAT is all abt holding ur nerves while appearing as it is abt accuracy and speed. all the efforts can do down the drain if one loses his/her calm. one should try and relax in the week b4 CAT (personal opinion).
should CAT b conducted on the lines of GRE?? one will not have to wait to have another go at it, plus one can get the result on the same day. if planned properly it can b a success, eliminating chances of paper leaks. wat say guys???????

D.M.

The toughest test which tests your decision making skills along with your problem solving skills...you have to decide quickly whether you are going to attempt a question in CAT or not....ppl say in CAT speed matters but i would say that if you can improve on your efficiency than attempting 80 questions can bring avery good score for you as well...but one thing is never ever concentrate on just one section you will have be very good in all the 3 quant, DI and verbal...and there is no escape from this

CAT is not about how much chunk u know its abt applying the chunk the u already know.
I hail from a very week educational background from where i did not get the g\hradcore concepts of MATHS and as well as English. I'm basicllay week in the big chaptes of both of them. But I have a storng concepts of things like P/L, DI, ratios, Geomatry(but not trigo).

tried to concentrate on only these concepts. Now it was by left hand work to solve these probs(I'm left handed btw).

So in CAT tried to find good questions in both ENG & MATH to attept as few probs as posible but those should be choosen which r sure that u r correct. and then i pour my whole time in the section of DI.

But couldnot clear math section. hard luck next time.

I would say its about applying urself as u r and not applying urelf after trying to change urself.

How to improve RC.

You must have heard this umpteen no of times. There is nothing new I am gonna add. But still.............

The mantra to crack RC of CAT is to
Read, read and read.

now the question comes Read what.

Well dovote atleast 1 hour only for reading. Read Newspaper editorials, magazines and some novel or book. After reading an editorial column or a magazine article, close your eyes and try to recollect what have you read, try to summarize that. This will improve your comprehension.

Time yourself while reading editorials. try to improve by 1 sec each day, this way you can improve your reading speed.

By following these two steps, you ll be able to strike a balance between your reading speed and comprehension. And that is the only thing required to crack RC.

Besides reading, make a habit of attempting 1 RC passage everyday. By doing this, you ll be exposed to lot of RC passages on varied topics and you ll come to know about your mistakes. While attempting practice RC passages try to be accurate. And see it as a challenge.

Try it for few days.

-Vishal

Was thinking of posting here for quite sometime. well, sometimes Republic day helps in other ways too :D

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All I Wanted to Say about GD/PI

Before joining IIM Indore in July 2004 I have attended 9 real GD/PIs. I am able to convert 3 of them. There were lots of key takeaways from all these experiences. This post aims to throw some light in what works best in a GD/PI and what can make one a failure in GD/PI.

GD

-Reading: many people say that for a good GD performance reading a lot is sine-qua-non. Well, I would say more than reading you need to have an opinion on diverse topics. This need not always come from reading. You can gain a POV on hazaar things by watching TV, chatting with friends (basically arguing), surfing, and more importantly using your gray cells. So even if you are not a very avid reader there is no point worrying about it now. In whatever little time you have try to gain an opinion on most of issues in most of the areas.

-Structuring your thoughts: many of us would feel often shucks, I forgot to say about this point in the GD. Well, my dear friend you are not alone. I felt the same way after at least 7 of those 9 GDs. The key to beat this is to structure our thoughts. Through out our schooling/college teachers constantly bombarded us about reading and doing. But no one told us how to think. I guess this is the reason why some of us fail to objectively analyze the issue before us in GDs. There are some very good websites where you can get some basic guidelines on how to structure your thoughts.

-Going to new places: What do we think an evaluator does in the GD? By no means he/she can remember the whole 20 mins of discussion happening in the room. Also many a times memorizing the entire 20 mins discussion wouldnt help him/her in judging the people. One of the things they look in a GD is who is going to new places? by new places I mean taking the risk of thinking in new directions and channeling the discussion in those directions. It is not always easy to think in new directions. Especially when you lack in point no 2. One best way to do this could be negation. Whatever the speaker is saying you can think of the opposite and sometimes it yields good results. Also sometimes the discussion moves towards a cul-de-sac and group loiters there without any purpose. At this time if you can take the role of moving the group from there you get the brownie points.

-Listening: I cannot tell you how much this is important for you in a GD.

-Gaining groups support and airtime: there are at least 1001 ways of gaining support/airtime by being rude or noisy. But most of them suck. Some of you might be feeling that no matter what you do in the GD you dont get a chance to speak. Try this next time. Get an eye contact with the person who is speaking. Smile gently at the person. Nod your head and pay attention to him. At one point or other he also smiles back. Snatch the opportunity and speak. You can find such body language tips in your GD material or websites.

-Optimism: All said and done, if you dont have belief in yourself no tip, no amount of training can help you in cracking a GD. It takes a lot of guts to come out in public and speak and make sense. So dont feel belittled if you are not very good at that right now. Rather persist and you will have your day soon.

Interviews

-Know thyself: If there is anything that the interviewer doesnt know very well and you know way too much, it is YOU. So the best way to start preparation is to start knowing yourself. Prepare a killer CV. Know more about your family, hometown, college, hobbies, friends, job, education etc. gather some interesting trivia about the above listed items and if the chance comes tell them to the interviewer. He/she will definitely be impressed.

-Acads/Job: You know what to do.

-Admit your mistakes: many people feel that if they admit a mistake their interview is screwed. In MBA jargon we call in escalation of commitment. Believe me there is nothing like admitting your mistakes and going back to comfort zones.


Some of the key mistakes you can avoid in GD/PIs

-Dumbness: no matter what happens in a GD try speaking. Dont complaint about the GD becoming a fish market. If it is a fish market you be a part of it or better still try making it more sensible than staying silent. I did this mistake in my IIM B Interview and lost it.

-Ignorance: prepare well for the interview. Dont take it too casually. Staying cool interview doesnt mean staying uniformed about the key areas. For example I was grilled on probability/statistics/queuing in IIT SOM interview. I dint prepare much in that area despite it being a course I did in graduation and highly relevant to my field (comp sci). I failed to convert the interview

-Lack of Passion: Sometime if everything is worse in you and if you still have the kick ass passion to make it to the school then you might get selected. All you need to do is display your passion and why you want to join the school through out the interview. But passion isolated to PI is not going to work. You need to display in the SOP, GD and other stages as well.

-Running away from reality: B schools also like people with high levels of creativity. But that doesnt mean that you should move away from reality. Suppose if the interviewer asks where do you want to be 10 years after MBA and if you say something like I want to be a project manager or CEO of an MNC it doesnt work. Try to be more sensible and realistic in your answers.


Well, that is all I can think of now. Meanwhile my request to other b schoolers: post your tips/tricks/suggestions/ideas here and lets make the journey painless for would be class of 2007.

All the Very Best for GD/PI 2005.

Goodday ,
Chandoo

Very interesting and inspiring posts by Chandoo and Pendyal.
I took printouts of their posts and always keep them with me. (Compiled all of Chandoo's posts into a single file).

Read them whenever I feel the motivation flagging. It always perks me up whenever I read their posts.

Thanks guys.
By the way, me going to give CAT for third time in 2k5.

Hi Pendyal,

great work with good intentions.

thanks for sharing your journey towards IIMs. I believe you will make it to those which you desire and deserve.

keep posting your good as well as bad moments of CAT preparation.
It will definitely serve as an impetus to all of us.


thanks.

My first attempt at writing something substantial. So probably gonna have a lot of mistakes. Add to it the fact that I am really bad at putting down my views in black and white. So I will take Chandoos post as a guiding post.

I am from a commerce background doing my ICWAI simultaneously. My parents always wanted me to take the CAT. In my 2nd year one of my lecturers insisted on my taking an open mock test by prime (Hyderabad). Scored decently in that one. After that I decided to plunge headlong into prep for CAT. Joined time as soon my grad exams were over in March 2004. Reasons for joining an MBA program? Hmm. first is the fact that I can boss ppl around add to it the fact that it is just a logical extension of my field of graduation and thats what I really wanted to do and of course the pay packet and the social standing.

In the first class at time we were asked to identify our strengths and weaknesses (just an estimation of what we feel). My strengths are quant (and hence DI) and also my reading speed in RC and I was a bit weak with the verbal/vocab part. So I spent most of the time in doing the practice exercises from the time material. This is not to say that I didnt bother about the quant/DI part. I had done the speed maths booklet in the first month after joining time (march-april). In the beginning all there was to do was to attend classes and just do some follow-up at home. But this I felt was the most crucial part of ones prep. It can really affect ones chances of a good performance if one is not really bothered about ones prep at this stage. Even though we cant do the quant on our own without help form someone it makes a lot of sense to finish as much of the verbal prep at this point because this section requires the least help from outsiders. Also if one is comfortable he/she cud also do as much of DI as possible (I mean understanding the different graphs, charts, etc.).

I tried to finish my verbal sections preparation as fast as possible coz it had been emphasized from the start that this was the section where one cud score. Did my word lists (cue cards given by time as part of the study material). Apart from that reading papers and mags and writing down and understanding all the new words I came across really helped me boost the one area I was weak in (vocab). For other areas of verbal like sentence correction, correct usage of words there is no other way of being good at them other than to do all the practice exercises and to read as much as possible.

For DI all I did was to do the exercises at least 5 times each. This helped me to recognize just by seeing which questions were sitters, which were doable and which were to be left. For LR there is rally no other way other than to practice as many LR sets one comes across. DS requires us to have a strong grounding in basic math and also knowledge of certain shortcuts which can be had from class X , XI, XII textbooks or from the material given by the coaching instis.

Quant: my strongest section. I never prepared for this section in the true sense of the word. Going through the material, doing the exercises and the speed maths was all I did for this section.

RC was another of my strongest areas. All the time I had wasted during my school and college days reading books has been of help in this section. Apart from reading speed a good vocab is also necessary for this section as most of the passages one comes across are bound to contain at least 5 new words. Reading a lot will help not just from the reading speed point of view but also by helping us to understand what the author is saying if we come across new words.

Now the most crucial part of the prep for CAT is the mock tests. After 2 months of doing nothing in the classes (apart from a few topic based tests) I was really looking forward to writing my first mock CAT. As luck would have it , the date of the mock clashed with that of my ICWAI exams. So couldnt take it. took all the mocks from the second one onwards. My performance in the mocks was good. But the really important part of the mocks was not what I did in the test centre but what I did after coming back home. As soon as I was back, I would first evaluate my performance in the test from the key given. Then sitting down and identifying the mistakes I made in the test (leaving sitters, spending too much time on a question, etc.). this would take up a good 2 hours of my time but it was time well spent. All the strategies were put to test one by one and by the time I had taken my 14th mock CAT I had finalized my strategy for the real CAT (assuming that the paper would not be very much different from what we were given in the mocks). Its a different thing that this strategy had to be thrown out of the window as soon as we were given the paper on Nov. 21st. spent the last few mocks fine-tuning this strategy. Taking as many mocks as possible is a good thing but one has to be wary of fatigue or burnout. I didnt take any mocks in the last 2 weeks apart from the Sunday AIMCATs as I felt my performance was going down.

After all the prep for 7 months at last the day of reckoning had arrived. With the constant hammering of the coaching instis (the only thing that we can be sure about CAT is change) and my fathers words ringing in my ears (trust your instincts) I went into the hall hoping that I was prepared for everything. The paper sent all of us in the room into a shock. Luckily for me my instinct took over and I am glad that happened. How else can one explain the fact that I started of my quant section with the 2 mark questions which were supposed to be tough. It was the best thing that happened to me as far as I can remember. Coming back to the paper, I started of with VA section. First the half mark questions, then the one mark ones (RC included except for passage 2) and then 2 of the 2 mark questions (the paragraph jumble ones). Spent 40 minutes on it. next was the quant section where for some reason I decided to have a look at the 2 mark questions first. Felt that they were easy and finished all of them in about 20 minute. Came back to the one mark questions, did 15 of them in around 20 minutes and proceeded to section I. didnt find it as tough as other people though it was definitely tougher than last years DI. Spent the last 40 minutes on this section. Attempted 26 from part A and 8 from part B.
Overall I was satisfied with my performance and was expecting a good score. After seeing the keys released by various instis was really happy with my performance. But 100%? That was even beyond my wildest dreams.

Right now the only thing I am sure of is the fact that I will taken apart by the interview panels of the different management institutes. Just hoping everything goes well.

All the very Best to everybody

Bye..

Do you really think somebody will go thru more than 1.5 lakh profiles!! I hope not.
And do you really think that it is random.....iim ppl are not fools!!......so better not crib about iims if you have lack of info.
Have you heard of linear programming???
By using this, a model is made where you put constraints of what you do not want and get the solution accordingly.
Few examples of constraints:
1 overall percentile>=96 (when work ex > 3years )(and something else if something special....w.r.t different iims)
2 overall percentile>=98 (when work ex <=1.5 years)(and something else if something special....w.r.t different iims)
3 percentage in 10th and 12th>=80% (when work ex greater than 2 yrs and something else when greater than that) (and something else if something special....w.r.t different iims)
These are just few examples, I am sure things are much more complicated...in reality....and then you run all 1.5 lakhs profile in the model and you get the result....and in this process some ppl mite get some advantage and some mite be less lucky to fall in the right mix..... Sometimes you will find ppl cribbing about that they were good in everything than a particular person in all these things....then you are missing out on things like accuracy about which even you do not know.......for ex: attempting 40 questions and getting 23-24 right will get you that percentile which you are proud of.....but that also signals that you have been guessing in the paper.....which IIMs mite not want.....and now can you get me the statistics of accuracy......and this is just one possibility.... .. and what you calculate according to some answer keys given by some institutes is not the very accurate figure (last year 30 answers given IIMs and instititutes were different) so the answer key can also be pretty much different than what you or any institute think is.... Sometimes it turns out to be unfair but go to another end ......it is not that simple......and is not partial in any way.....it might just be that you mite not have the rite kindaa balanace which a perticular iim is looking for on the basis of which they form this model.... so either you fall in the model or you do not....
and ppl talking about transparency.....it can not be made transparent bcoz iims always strive to make the model more and more efficient.......and there is no perticular set model that iims follow year after year....so what you mite find this time, you mite not find next year.......and that is also not random it on the basis of students getting admission every year.....suppose a student who gets very good percetile but had dismal performance in degree.....and gets thru in a perticular model.....and is not able to cope up in iims....then next year one constraint might increase ex : percentage in degree shud be greater than what was there in the model used in last year.......but yeah if you do not get calls then you might find some solace in criticizing about the system.... then you go ahead, i should not deprive you of that liberty....."india is a free country Smile" you shud speak what you want to.... but dude, think logically and you will get the answer to your own queries.....but you gotta see the big picture.....just do not let stats come in your way to think logically......There is always a reason behind everything!!... i hope i made my point clear.....so guys stop thinking about what you did not get and celebrate for what you got.....and try to encash it......by the end i will just say....."there is something called destiny"....Good Luck!!

CAT results out. Now what?

I posted this in my blog coz a coupla ppl asked me... but our Praveen thot it'd be useful if I post here... so just a copy-paste.


For those who didn't make it, well, there's always a next time. Trust me, there is no such thing as geniuses getting 98/99, and the second rung getting 96/97. Its mostly a matter of luck and sincerity in preparation. I'm stating this as a fact coz after being with 6 months with people who scored between 97.5+ to 99.8s, I'm quite convinced that preparation and luck matters a lot. Better luck next time!

Some myths and facts based on some questions I've been asked:

Myth: Sub 98, I wont get calls.
Reality: There are people in our batch with 97.5 whereabouts, although few and far between. Typically, if your resume is different, you stand a chance.

Myth: Sub 90 in one section, I wont get calls.
Reality: We have 2/3 who have 80 whereabouts in one section. But then, I havent spotted a guy with less than 90 percentile in VA.

Myth: I can't improve CAT scores.
Reality: I've seen people from 68/70 percentiles one year getting 99 percentiles next year, with sincere preparation. Trust me, they weren't prodigies.

Myth: Percentiles matter for converting GD/PIs to final calls.
Reality: It doesn't appear to be so. Percentile effects, if anything, would probably be minimum.

Myth: Order of interview calls reflect relative positions.
Reality: Order of interviews would depend on you CAT registration number. You might end up seeing the same people again and again.

Myth: Entry barriers for freshers would be high.
Reality: Everything depends on the relative application levels. IIMs try to make a balanced batch. But typically, its quite true that freshers need more percentiles for getting calls. I don't see a bias in GD/PI though.

Well, for all those who crossed the 98/99 percentile barrier, congrats. Get ready for the real rat race. Most importantly, brush up your current affairs etc, and read a lot of newspapers. If possible, join some of the coaching institutes to take training (IIMB guys would conduct a GD/PI course in Bangalore) or form some interest groups made of aspirants who got calls. Make sure that you aren't so close to those guys coz that would bring a personal touch, which would make it informal. If you are looking for more information, feel free to mail me (http://govar.blogspot.com) or Chandoo (http://chandoo.org/blog) or Jam (http://mahabore.blogspot.com)

Thought I would write about my tryst with the feline monster.

Even as a kid , I was aware of IIMs ,thanks to my father who
is an IIMC dropout - 1970 batch,(dropped out owing to ill health).
I became interested in doing my MBA partly because of
my disillusionment with the Computer-Science course that I'm
pursuing and partly due to my interest in a number of management-
related disciplines.

I seriously contemplated writing CAT 2004 in aug-2003.Wrote the
IMS diagonostic test(cat 2k2 paper)and got a decent score of 50 with
zilch preparation.IMS counsellors(who specialise in misguiding students)
told me that an ideal score was 90 in that paper(which was apparently
the score of the 100th %iler that year, as I learnt later) .As I wasn't a member of PG at that stage,I believed them implicitly and looked down upon myself. The mistake I did at that time was to hype up CAT
and IIMs out of proportion.

I conceived IIMs as institutes inhabited by Supermen fulfilling
Neitzche's ideal.I thought only IIT/NIT geeks with exceptional number crunching skills can dare to think of IIMs.This defeatist attitude set me back at a very early stage of my preparation.
I joined the ims Classic course.Didn't solve the BRMs systematically.
My average Simcat %ile was around 98.5,which wasn't great.
Ranks were in the 100-400 range, the best being 60.Despite decent
overall scores, I never made it to the national achievers list,QA
being my nemesis on most occasions. I would advise 2k5 aspiirants
to give as much attention to sectional %iles as to the overall %ile.
Getting 90+ in all sections is the only hope of getting a call,if you are
not in the 99.5+ bracket.

In the end,CAT was a flop,with a single digit score in QA and an overall
score of around 50-53(which is almost the same as my diagonostic test score)What are the takeaways from my experience?
1. Don't create hype around the exam or the institute.While you probably
need to be very ,very good to get 100th %ile, an average IIM student
is by no means exceptional.

2. Classroom coaching is a waste, especially for engineers with
reasonably sound fundamentals.

3. Think big always. Don't be satisfied with 98-99 ish %iles.
Consider anything below 99.6-7 to be a failure(especially if you are a fresher).

4. DO not overlook your sectional performances.

5. Don't study for CAT at the expense of something else.
After all,as someone else has said on this thread, CAT is an aptitude test
and a person's aptitude can improve but not by much.

Dear Chandoo ,

was really moved by ur posts specially when u lay bare ur emotions on not getting where u wanted to be , but ur grit determination and attitute to share ur experience with others is just great .

gr8 job .

wish u all the best in ur life .


p.s what is chandoos favourite band

aasma lol chandoo ke chacha ne

hehe :D
that is just a part of a very big picture :d
well, score.. i dont think i remember it. percetile.. here you go...
va - 90
di - 99.1
qa - 99.8
net 99.5
calls BIK
converts I

God bless you ,
Chandoo

nice inspiring articles by the been there,done that crowd.but i dont have nethin to offer in terms of inspiration.instead,i remember the dayz just after the final IIM results were out(i got into IIM CLIK).twas time when i didnt have much to do,n one of the things which struck me was that i had got into an IIM without really knowing wat n MBA is.n i feel that this is a kinda wierd thing.n in this ironical state of mind,i made the following post in my blog.retrieved it frm the archives--

do u really want n MBA ??

why is there such a rush for doin mba these days.some 6-7 years back,not many wanted to do it but these days even iitians are desperate to get into an iim.what brought about this?is it that suddenly the world has started being managed ? wasnt it managed earlier ?i think to find the reason for this,i need to look at the people who want to do it.The biggest snag in the whole situation is that guys are deciding to try for an mba too fast.straight into your pre final year at graduation college ,and u find every second person in the class talking of TIME n CL n IMS.You hear of the iims,read about them in the papers,remember your cousion who passed out of iim lucknow some years back but is still remembered as the sole guy deserving a place in the family,find ur parents asking questions like " beta,iim ka try karega ?",see the cold and proud faces of the brilliant acheivers in the coaching instis ads on the third page and suddenly you feel -"if there is anything called success,it cant be got without an iim".and it gets an all consuming passionate chase once you fall in the cycle of the mock cats,the scores,the ranks,the comparisons,the analysis and so on.the class begins to know about ur burning chahat for an iim and some even name u "catman" or "caterer".all the while,ur experience at the campus placements is serving to give u one more reason to run away frm the coding jobs.you think of iims all day,graduation looks necessary only to be eligble for an iim.come march,and the front page of your daily paper declares that the mncs just made kings out of 1000 odd iim students at the placements yesterday--you feel all the more pumped up.this single minded hot chase lands you the seat in your dream institute,you feel like you have just beaten mike tyson to pulp.the classmates who looked down at you as if you didnt know hot to sign wave down ur bike at college and admiringly congratulate you.you see ur name on the college bulettin board and suddenly everyone at college wants ur email id.ppl call u at home n ask fr tips fr their kid whooz been hitting his head against cat for the last three years.u scan
tha papers expecting ur photo to whip out frm the next page.feels good.but like everything,the aura begins to fade over days.u kinda seek to move forward.cat done,admission done,adulations done.NOW WHAT????now what.....now for the mba!!!wait a minute,what am i supposed to do here?an mba,what does he do?watz his job like?wat sorta companies hire them?will i have to go to some other city after my mba?n here lies the greatest stupidity.you have cracked cat not bcos u wanted to do an mba but bcos u wanted to crack wat the world sees as a really hard nut .u dont even know much abt an mba.but bcos people are so myopic ,n ur one of them,u have given it ur all without pausing and looking at the place u r heading to.

this may not turn out to be bad at all,infact,most probably it will go on to make ur life better and richer,but still,i believe a momentous decision as this deserves a lil more thought .

What I wanted to speak about CAT :

well my CAT story has been one full of up's and down's...

It started in april 2003 when one of my seniors (whom I considered my mentor) made it to IIMA. All I knew about CAT then (infact, till july) was that it was an exam you had to crack to make it to the IIMs. The IIM placement figures (which are definitely bloated - I have seen ridiculous placements figures reported for IITs and IIT-SOM by the media and IIMs would be no different) made me along with my friends sign up for the IMS correspondence course.

And the beginning to my CAT journey was pretty rosy. I scored a %ile of 99.87 in the open simcat given by 40K people. In the 10 simcats I gave, only once did I score below 99.3 %ile. And according to IMS people, your final CAT %ile would always be greater than your simcat %ile.

Well not always. I scored 98.84 %ile in CAT. I knew it was the end to my IIM dream (for this yr atleast). I had a scholarship from UIUC for a PhD, but somehow at the back of my mind, I knew that was not what I intended to do. Overconfident about cracking CAT (thanks to my simcat scores), I had stayed away from the placements till february. After CAT, I decided it was time to hunt for a job and give CAT again the next year (failing to crack CAT had hurt my ego). I did manage to bag a job through the placements soon enough, and decided this was where I would be for one year, before heading to an IIM. The job was something to do with CRM consultancy - greek to an engg geek like me !!

About a month back I started thinking - would an MBA really help me (a fresher) at this juncture ? I would be doing a stop-gap job for a year in a field I had no clue about, then ditch it for an MBA (again something I have no clue about ) - would it help me in the long run ? What about my 5 yr engineering post-grad degree ? It was then that I made my decision - no CAT for this year atleast. and I decided to look around for a job that would atleast help me professionally. Miraculously I found one (though its in chennai )

So now I have decided that I will not let an exam - CAT - dictate my career plans and objectives. And I have also realised that its not necessary to do an MBA to be successful in life (something I strongly believed until sometime back)

whether I want to give CAT or not will now depend ONLY on what value addition an MBA will have to offer me, and the time, if it comes, shall only be later.

thats about it. Sorry for sounding so "sermonious" or "hypocritical" if I do so, but I just wanted to express my feelings about CAT, and MBA in general. :)

cheers

the freak

My story! - Inspiration (??!!) for the late starters
Caveat:
Please don't take these if you are real serious in preparation. If you are lagging in preparation, I guess this post will zap you up. :-)

Starting problem:
I took the first CAT in 2001. I didn't know anything about CAT, the competition prevailing, and the type of questions that can be expected. I didnt know the USP of different institutions either. I took it just because I wanted to do something useful during the last of my college days. I already had a job in Oracle which made me as lax as a guy can be.

I remember taking 5 full time tests, at home, in total. Obviously the test bombed. I wasn't least expecting to get a call. Fortunately the scores weren't disclosed that time. ;-)

Second try:
I was too busy with the work, doing good stuff there. I was also enjoying a good reputation in the company, and most importantly I was enjoying the work along with a good pay. But since coding was something I didn't want to settle with in the long run, I wanted to take CAT in November 2004 with 3 yrs experience. This was in June 2003. Since there was 4 months left for Nov 2003 CAT, I just wanted to give a shot, a serious one.

I enrolled in IMS correspondence. I didn't take the full course because I had a real tight schedule in the company, and I was always thinking in the back of the mind that Nov 2004 CAT is for me. Materials started piling up every week, and didn't even touch. And then, one fine day - the usual enlightenment wake up - made me take the books. Then I joined PG, and closely followed the things here, and suddenly I wanted to give a full try.

I was overconfident about English, and I didn't spend a single minute for English apart from the 40 minutes in exam. This I suspect was a real mistake. I only concentrated (???!!) on Quants, and I was confident that DI will automatically come (Second mistake!)

Ranks:
I was never in the top 100s anytime. My usual IMS ranks were in the range 600 to 1000 kinds, with intermittent trespassing either sides. The highest I got was some 201 once. But take home tests (AIMCAT papers) were the real cushion. After evaluation most of the time I found that I was close to AIR 50s and 100s. Don't ask me why I didn't get such ranks in SIMCATs. I don't know. But then, I must add: SIMCATs really sucked. They were outdated - to say the least.

CAT:
I guess I had a consistent average performance in both the CATs - the leaked one and the next one. I remember getting some 60+ in the leaked CAT. Low by all standards.

The 'real' CAT was equally bad. I remember getting some 50 to 55s, as per the IMS key. But people who claimed 60s and 65s got lesser than me finally. So, I really don't know what my score was. All I know is: I got 98.1 percentile, calls from L and I.

Interviews:
L interview was a nightmare (as posted in PG), the worst one can expect. I interview was cool, and naturally I'm in I now.

Wanted to post this for a long time, and got the time now - tomorrow is a holiday for us here. Some friends say I must have went according to my original plans and should have taken CAT seriously next year to get into A/B/C. But I'm in IIM-I, what the heck? Feeling satisfied.

Chandoo's account was amazing... inspired me to post my experiences too

All I wanted to speak about CAT

The Early Years

The first time I heard about CAT was in Class XII... when I thought MBA was for Commerce grads.

The second time was in first year of graduation. I was wondering what I should PG (postgraduate) in. I knew it had to be a communications/journalism related field. Looked up the MICA site & saw that they select thru CAT. At that time I thought... "Oh.. CAT's that super-tough test. Not worth slogging it out if I'm gonna apply to only one insti."

Over the next couple of years I met people who had actually taken the test, and it didn't really sound super tough. Still, the profile of the average CAT-taker appeared to be Techies-who-hate-coding or Engineers-who-wannado-something-else.

Summer of 2003... my decision was finally made. Thanks to a combo of friends in B-Schools, an old Math teacher from my schooldays & CNBC - corporate India suddenly appeared very glam. IMS & CL successfully sold CAT to me. I decided, management, or more specifically, communications management was my calling.


The Preps

So, I targetted MICA & signed up at IMS, Hyderabad in April-May 2003 for the classroom course. Also started with the customary worship of ET, BT, BW & CNBC India.

I took the prelim test at IMS & found I almost maxed the VA/RC section. Quant, I wasn't so good at. LR & DI were cool. Religiously attended the 6:30 am classes at IMS. Rushed back home. grabbed books and rushed to college in the opposite direction. I'd be solving Quant sheets during ImmunoGenetics lectures in college. I enjoyed every minute of the preps, because I liked Math.

Never "worked" on VA/RC. I don't believe in concepts of Reading Speed & stuff that IMS prescribes. Instinct helped a lot in this section.

For DI, I tried to learn the speed calculation techniques etc, but on Test Day, I don't think I used any of it.

So, CAT preps took up abt 1 or 2 hours a day from April-September. Most of it was for Quant. Solved every problem from BRMs & section tests. Dug out my CBSE math books & worked with those too.


The MockTests

I took tests at IMS & PRIME. Also solved all the TIME mocks at home. Invariable fell short of the cut-offs in Quant. I cleared all SIMCAT cutoffs only 3 times. Lowest rank was in 1800s, highest was 21 (IMS). Averaged between 50 to 400 otherwise.

I found the feedback sessions awfully frustrating. "Recognizing sitters" was something that I couldn't perfect. The take-home tests were decidedly easier... but somehow, I couldn't carry the form into the SIMs.

November 23rd & After

LeakCAT came and went. I felt I had done decently. But not close enough to the scores posted on PG.

Shut my books till Jan 1st. FMS was around the corner, so I restarted preps. Panicked a bit coz I had no material left to solve. SO I signed up for the CL take-home tests. Suddenly I had a deluge of papers to solve. Went at the rate of a-paper-a-day, till ReCAT. Got calls from FMS & NMIMS meanwhile.

Feb 15th

Felt decently prepared. Did the test. Came out feeling I had messed up DI... I should have attempted more. I was a nervous wreck till the online solutions came out. Then it hit me: DI was okay... it was Quant that I screwed up royally.

Still, I had hopes. But the minute I entered my CAT No. on the IIM-B GD/PI call page, they crashed. IIM-B was my dream-school for a while, but I guess Lady Luck listens only to your first wish

Final position in CAT: Overall a 99.38 %ile. 99.57 in VA/RC, 97.3 in DI. 77.7 in Quant.
Applied: IIMs, SPJain, MICA.
Calls: MICA

Interviews

In hindsight FMS was a sad story. They hated my profile... suspicious about the "BSc in Genetics" background. NMIMS was disgusting too.... last person in panel to be interview in a session where 90 people had GD/PI. Didn't have any hopes.

MICA was far far far better. Profile was appreciated, even respected. Qs were friendly. GD was dull, but still managed to make a point. A "feel-good" experience.

The Wait

Was shocked to find that I was waitlisted at MICA. An excruciating 20-day wait, & I was in.

So, The pre-MBA experience:

It had highs and lows... but it was a wonderful 10 months. Met a lot of people, made some wonderful friends (at IMS, at PG, at interviews), learnt a LOT. There were some sacrifices made too... Had to give up freelance assignments which popped up during cruial prep days; missed out on a lot of college activities, quizzes etc; also went through a break-up.

But those were ten months of my life that I'll always treasure. Getting admission ensured a sweeter end to the pre-MBA process. Because i'm not sure whether I'd have had the will to go through it all again.


Lessons learnt:
I don't have an MBA-call-getter profile: "Life Science grad from Hyderabad" (as opposed to "Engineer" or "Grad-from-swanky-Delhi-college") and no full-time work-ex. Still, no regrets... I can't complain coz I ended up getting to what I initially aimed for - MICA.

All the best to all MBA aspirants 2004. PG is the coolest place to be! :)

Deepa

CAT hota kya hai.

My two elder bros ar both from IIMs (A and c resp), and both did not prepare for CAT. Got through in their first attempts. Both C.As. CAT did not give perentile around then, but i know that their Math was far worse than mine.

I have prepared for CAT twice (grudgingly and without much seriousness). Have got high percentles (98+) both times, and am half a CA. Got into L and I last year, but still gave it up to finish CA.

I feel that if you can keep your cool, then clearing cut-offs is amazingly simple. getting 15 is not that difficult if you choose the rights Qs.

So please stop sweating 'bout CAT and get on with your lives. Just a couple of hours a day reading papers, and solving puzzles is good enough for the above average candidate. And take some Mock CATs for practice. Do Math BRM's on your own and leave hte rest to lady luck (the most important ingredient, i say) .

And work on GDs and interview, they are more difficult than CAT as quality of competition is much better.

p.s. (food for thought): Heard that IIM-A is the most difficult B-school in the world to get in as applicants per seat is highest. But would not that logic make iim-i and iim-k much tougher to get in as seats are lesser and 99% of IIM-A applicants also apply to these.

Some Links for Vedic Mathematics

ics.uci.edu
truman.edu
geocities.com/vedicmathematics
Vedicmaths.org
vedmaths.tripod.com
Mahrishi.UK
TCY Online
lesmurdie.wa.edu.au

Acha, So I hope you have clicked in @ least some of the links. No need to waste time by going to any of the links buddy , It is highly improbable that you will apply any of this shortcuts in a pressure cooker type MBA entrance exam.But still, In case you are interested you can go and check. I never bothered to check.





Some Other Useful Links


Urpercentile


Cat2k2

Cat2003
Bized.ac.uk
Magical Methods
Tryets
Sheppard Software
Amos Web Tutor
Investor Words
India Infoline
CoolAvenues
Economist
Remittag
BrandQuest

Some tips no one else in this world will give mane indyan Inputs

1.When you start preparation keep some target B schools that you want to get into.Make sure you choose B Schools in such a way that you will get a better opening after completing your MBA.ie No need to go for a A- or B rated School in case you are working in a reputed MNC.It wont offer any value addition to you.

2.Ranks in Mock CATS are not the actual indication in case you are not consistent enough.I had ranks ranging from 22 to 600 and I screwed up CAT quant big time ;-D.But I was lucky enough to getinto FMS where the rejection ratio is even higher ( 60 seats and 30000 applicants).If D Day of an exam is your lucky day you will get through. In case you screw up it is your fate , no need to crib take it as it comes.

3.Plan your preparation in such a way that you will attain peak on the week of the D Day.I know quite some people who burned a lot of midnight oil but couldnt get any call @ all.It is not a case of hard preparation but smart preparation.

4.Finish your basics well in advance so that you wont have any doubt regarding the basics while you start off with the tests.Identify your strong areas and try to maximise in those areas.

5.In entrance exams the only thing that matters is score and not the number of attempts .Try to have a decent score across all sections so that you will clear the sectional cutoffs.

6.If you have good accuracy it will help you a lot in cracking CAT big time.Try to pickout the right questions and Of course it is not easy .It comes only through practice.

7.Read far, wide and deep .It will help you in Verbal Section and during your GD's and PI's.

8.Dont be overawed by the tag of any of the top B Schools or the rankings by major magazines.As long as you are sincere and smart in your preparation you have a decent enough chance anywhere. There will be hazar institute wars going on in Internet and between students.Remember that you yourself are creating a negative image by taking part in this cheap gimmick game , it doesnt add any value @ all.You are wasting your energy by taking part in Institute Wars .After all majority of the companies that comes to all these schools are same which means you may end up in the same job whether you have done your MBA from UVW or XYZ.


9.Try to get some study partners who are almost in the same level as you in the initial stages.Take common tests and compare your performance to gauge the level of preparation.

10.Remember that a B School entrance exam is not a knowledge based exam , it is a matter of startegy , presence of mind , common sense and your luck .The only thing that you can hope is that everything will go well on the D day and others screw up.

Hey Guyz ..here goes Lijo aka Indyan's two pennies worth..poor guy does not want publicity..but real good info must never be hid..so here goes LIJ's article on CAT prep.

Preparing for MBA Entrance Exams - Indyan Inputs

Buddies, No need to read this if you are not preparing for MBA entrance exams ;-D .Why waste your time?



I will tell you my experience. I had a lot of money to blow up when I joined a software company fresh out from College .I laughed out loud when I heard the Citibank Interactive voice response system announcing the hefty amount of my first salary because I was thinking about my shoe string budget during my graduation. It was treats , parties and eating out for the first three months but after that I realized that well, this is not I wanted to do. The Salary was good and everything was fine but there are weeks in which I had to work 88 hours (out of the 168 hours in a week) and what is the point in working hard in case you are not interested in what you are doing.

I was contemplating about a post graduation in management when I was doing my final year engineering .Even though I had an offer from a software MNC I had written CAT earlier to see what 'mother of all entrance exams' is like;-D. Preparationa for CAT is an emotional roller coaster ride if you are serious enough .You can see your scores fluctuating across various tests and your ranks rising and falling. It will help you a lot in understanding your personality and may have an overall positive or negative impact on your personality. I have seen people cribbing about not getting into IIMs after making it to other premier B schools. What the hell? An MBA from IIM is of course highly rated but still you can't say only an MBA from IIM will make you a better manager ;-D.I know one guy who was selected for IIM K four times including this year ( when the panel asked whether he knows where Kozhikode is ) but never went citing that he wants to do an MBA only from A.B or C.Then there is the case of one guy who had A B C calls but he was late for two interviews and couldnt convert the other.It is a matter of priorities , seriousness and what people want.

In case you are working you may have met all these people giving out all these reasons
-- 1 year exp ("too early, still not settled in job"),
-- 2 years exp("never got time to prepare, project pressure"),
-- 3 years exp ("had to go onsite"),
-- 4 years exp("maybe I should save some more money and then try for an MBA in a American B school"),
-- 5 years exp ("currently contemplating marriage")... :-)

In case you are serious about MBA I am of the belief that you should try for it seriously @ least once. In case you are already placed in cushy jobs and are happy with their work should really give a hard look before taking the plunge to do an MBA.This mail that I got from a senior who is working in Unilever will help you

"Another thing that gets lost in the din created by the 7 figure salaries, placements abroad, and colorful brochures.. is that.. even in the best of B schools in India only the top 15% (at max top 25%) get all these talked about jobs. The rest of the 75%+ percent still get jobs, but not of the high flying type. Of course there is still the promise of making it to the top leagues soon (by virtue of having a B school tag and working hard the first couple of years..). So people who are already placed in cushy jobs and are happy with their work should really give a hard look before taking the
plunge.

At the end of the day. no decision is easy. You must learn as much as you can before you make a decision so that you are not driving blind. At the same time, once you take a decision, stick to it even if it hurts. Having been through all this, these are some of my learnings..

-- If you are good and hardworking... it really does not matter what the qualification - you will do well in your career - not having the "right degree" might at best delay your progress
-- CAT is really no great deal.. its 100% hardwork.. and then praying that the other guy screws up. Once inside a BSchool, you realise again.. its only hard work that matters. Guys from IITs, RECs, Univs abroad etc.. are no different from you. Infact some of them are real specimens.. and make you wonder how thay got so far!!
-- If you don't make it to one of the top B schools, its worth taking up a job and trying again rather than doing an MBA anyway. An MBA from an unheard BSchool, has virtually zero value.

Hope this helps you take a more informed decision" .

So see MBA is not all rosy and shining and even it will have the travails but if you are going to like what you are doing well I dont feel then it shouldn't be a serious problem.

Ever wondered what is special about people from premier B schools or why people from Premier B Schools are given high packets? (It is like the Ad of Jockey underwear when one guy exclaims about another "What does he have which I dont have?")All students in premier B Schools have been filtered across various strictly followed criterion and they are expected to perform from Day 1.Every year IIMs and other Premier B schools are in news during their placement time for the hefty pay packets that have been offered in the respective campuses(other than MM Joshi vs IIM Fee controversy) .But even after these rigorous course the number of students who wish to start something on their own is very less. Why? I dont know.If the course is so rigorous why do everyone opt for an Aaram Se job ?They are supposed to take on any real life challenges after the B School stint..
.

What is so special about B Schools was one of my genuine doubts when I started of with my preparation and it was answered by K S Bhaskar who runs Ascent Education in Chennai .He told me " An MBA is a jack of all trades.He is expected to perform from day 1 and what B Schools does is filter students who can perform , if you can be among the top 1000 in say 1,50,000 students or say top 60 among 30000 students after a written test which is considered to be tough and a gruelling(?) interview then you will definitely perform.But once you do an MBA may be after two years your experience and performance will count. It wont matter whether you have taken MBA from say XYZ institute in kanyakumari or ABC institute in Mumbai.But the opportunities provided by ABC institute in Mumbai or any other metro will be far greater when compared to anyother.So try to get into a premier B School in Top 10"



The basic allure of all MBA entrance exams is that everyone thinks it is easy to crack it since it has only some basic maths and Angrezi.Agreed what matters is those two hours , but in case you are not born brilliant then you may have to work very SMART to crack it.The only thing to remember is that the final score and clearing the sectional cutoffs count and other than that nothing else matters in a B school entrance exam.You are expected to work hard and smart for cracking the entrance exam because that may help you in the intense cut throat competition in your B school.




All B school entrance exams are a matter of two hours.Plenty of hype is created now a days regarding MBA and stuff . If you see the ads in THE HINDU metro in Chennai you will feel that half of the world wants to get into a premier B School. Dont think about others , think about you.You need only one seat among the coveted 2000+ seats in premier B schools and if you feel that you have the potential to do it then you will . "I was born Intelligent , Education ruined me" is a slogan which is fit only for T shirts. What an MBA entrance exam be it CAT,GMAT,XAT,FMS or SCMHRD tests is what are the fundamentals you have acquired through 15 or 16 years of education in comparison with others. Even if you have got first rank in JEE and thoughout your school the only thing that matters is those two hours.If you screw up , well your fate -your preparation has been like lines drawn on water .If you crack it , well good for you. So never ever give up your job, things you like for a year etc... to prepare and crack for this feline ghost and dont be afraid of this ghost.You yourself can know whether you can crack it or not once you write the first three Mock CATs by your institute.However if you feel that you can still crack it after scoring low then buddy you may, who knows?I have seen people like that too. Let us hope the best may happen to you .

In case you are preparing for MBA entrance exams here are some resources that may help you and I hope you will share it with your friends who are preparing for B School entrance exams.


The best Link that you will find in Internet for any of the Indian MBA entrance exams

PAGALGUY

Some Links for Online Word Subscriptions
Dictionary.com
MywordaDay
A Word A Day
Merriam Webster
Yahoo Words
Your Dictionary
Number2.com
All Words
Onelook Dictionary
365 words


Most of these sites send a word everday to your mail box.It is a nice way to improve your vocabulary in case you are a wordophile or someone who is preparing for a vocab based entrance exam.

CAT GYAN # 6

*********************************

PART I


Let me begin with the resources on the Web. For starters subscribe to word services. They send an email everyday in your inbox with the meaning, etymology and sample usage of a word. The best and most popular service is run by Anu Garg (featured in Wall Street Journal and Readers Digest among many other newspapers/mags) Anu is an Indian living in the US. Catch him at www.wordsmith.org/award The words are sometimes arcane. However, do not get intimated by them. Easier words come from Merriam Webster by mail everyday. Hit
www.m-w.com


Websites (humble comments by yours truly)

www.coolavenues.com (Annual average salary survey this year published in many magazines. Decent source. Runs another yahoo group called catavenues. It was so voluminous and crappy thats why i started this group. catavenues has 2400+ members)

www.bizkool.com (OK)

www.indiabschools.com (Most pages not in place. Made a survey of
top B schools for Outlook)

Websites of Coaching classes

www.imsindia.com (Good place for initial intros to institutes)

www.cflogic.com (Good place for finding out results. They also have analysis of various papers on their site)

www.careerlauncher.com (They email query handlers generally respond with alacrity. i have had good experience. i mailed them some bouncer math fundas to which they made diagrams in MS Word and replied within a couple of days. Mail
helpme@careerlauncer.com)

Others

www.naukri.com (Good GD/PI tips. already posted on catprep)

www.iimcal.ac.in (Few tips for IIM aspirants. They also have CAT chat with their own students. Most user friendly institute. They sent my friend a CD when he got a call for GD/PI)

www.indiainfoline.com/bisc

Lots of portals have their own education sections where they have covered MBA studies in detail. ex education.sify.com Also check education vortals like egurucool.com and if I may add www.pagalguy.com/cat here now :wink:

Also go thru the following links

http://soyouwanna.com/site/syws/wrerrors/wrerrors.html
(To avoid writing errors. Will help you in english section)

http://soyouwanna.com/site/syws/logic/logic.html
(Some stuff on logic)

www.grammarbook.com (Decent)

Hit www.excelatexam.com for GD/PI experiences of sucessful
students.



PART II

The debate/discussions on whether to read questions before attempting a passage is like debating whether the chicken came first or the egg. Try both for 10 odd passages each. You'll find out for yourself which is easier.

Familiarity helps a lot. Attempt passages which you are aware of. In case you are an arts student you are better off starting with a passage on psychology than say, NTTDoCoMo.

I had the habit of underlying a few things here and there. I found it helpful. Try whether it works for you.

The biggest myth that I came across while preparing for CAT is the widespread belief that engineers are not good in English and non-engineers are good in English. The opposite holds true for Math. This is to put in one word 'baloney'. Engineers who matter have their English as well Math polished. Stop thinking in terms of engineers and non-engineers.

I was an IMS student. Have studied very little from Career Launcher. But from whatever little i did, i found IMS english at a higher level and hence more suitable for CAT. Math from CL is better. It seems that this times CAT had a couple of sums straight out of CL's preparatory matter. (For the record only - a sum about some water in grapes)

Keep reading editorials. Cannot overemphasize it. Any newspaper - business or non-business. I particularly found Indian Express editorials better than Times and Business Standard editorials better than Economic Times. (This, by the way, is a classic mistake used by paper setters over and over again. The english here is wrong since i am coming editorials of BS to ET rather than editorials of ET) Arguments suggesting that editorials are boring to read and other things are OK are specious at best. Nothing else in a newspaper is worth reading.

Do not spend disproptionate time mugging up words. CAT, unlike GRE, does not ask synonyms or antonyms (Atleast thats what the trend's been) This year they had a new type of question where they checked whether you knew how to use words.



PART III

Caution : Coaching Class preparatory matter have sums that have never ever come in CAT and never will. The clock some is a good example. CAT has never asked "What day was 23rd July 1983?" You can dodge these questions and not waste time studying them. For more info, consult some experienced person.

I started studying in late May. I was studying regularly for CAT. In case you intend to do the same, May-July is a good period to start depending upon your individual abilities. Ideally study less of English from October onwards. English cannot be improved in two months. Maths can. However, keep practicing English passages.

Data Interpretation : Can't write much. Know your reciprocals. And always read footnotes.


PART IV

You could ask your local class for last years paper. They reproduce all papers. This is how they do it. Senior faculty fill CAT forms like you and me. They then sit for the exam and analyse the paper. They do not mark a single answer. Meanwhile, the junior faculty is asked to memorise 5-7 questions with options. These questions are pre-assigned. After the test, the junior faculty then reproduces the paper to the best of their ability. (Obviously English passages cannot be reproduced. )However, the topic and difficulty is noted.

This time the top institutes have emphasized quite a bit on accuracy. Speaking to quite a few students, I realized that there were many students, who had attempted few questions with very good accuracy, who had got calls from IIMs.

-------------------
Tht's it folks! All The Best

CAT GYAN # 5

Step one:
"Macro-Picture"
Last few months have gone in addressing every single important issue of your test fundamentals, short-cuts, test taking techniques, simulated tests, etc. Now is the time for us to move away from these important but operational matters and look at the macro-picture ahead of you.

One or two sections are not to the best of your liking. You hate some sub-sections, etc. But forget all that for the next 17 days. Your task is not to solve the entire paper. Re-look at the objective. Do your best in those two hours. Get a minimum score on each section and maximize your overall performance. Worry about CAT as a whole.

Time to freeze your broad strategy with the understanding that it may have to be altered slightly after you face the CAT.


Step 2:
"Match Temperament"
All your hard work and sweat put in single-mindedly (!!!) will be tested in those 2 hours. Just 2 hours!! How can a two-hr test pass a judgment on your ability to make it to an IIM? Is it not too cold? Perhaps even cruel!! No scope for any error.

But this is a reality. And champions are made of stuff that brings out their best when it is needed the most. What you need in you now is match temperament. BIG MATCH TEMPERAMENT (BMT)

We need not travel far to understand what it is - Steve Waugh, Sachin Tendulkar, Glenn McGrath. They are BMT personified. Put them in a difficult situation. One realizes that they have reserved their best for that day. Unshakable self-belief is the virtue of all these champions.

All your brilliance and high scores at home is a waste if you cave in under pressure, under competition. These are excuses invented for lesser mortals called Losers. Pressure and competitions are always in ones mind.

Step Three:

The Ultimate Mantra SELF BELIEF

An average performer overcomes his own limitations with the mantra of Self-Belief and surpasses the benchmark of expectations others set for him. Because his self defined performance standards are much higher than set by others - Sachin, Steve Waugh.

This mantra is hidden somewhere in each of us. The champions have discovered it for themselves. You need to discover it for yourself. This is the best occasion for the discovery.

Work consciously on it. Nobody can do it for you. Not even the most sincere of your well-wishers parents, friends, teachersTell yourself
"ONLY I CAN DO IT. AND I SHALL."

CAT GYAN #3.

Logical problems are generally time consuming. My suggestion is that avoid these problems in the first instance.

Remember, your objective is to score the maximum amount of marks in the
given time. You will not be penalized for having solved all the easy problems in CAT. Neither would you be given special credits for digging out the tough problems. CAT, fortunately, to date, does not have adaptability in difficulty levels as GMAT does.

So, the first lesson in test taking strategy is -- choose your questions smart. It is easier said than done. You gain confidence about the questions that you can attempt adn the ones you have to skip only by continuous practice and scrupulous analysis of your previous test papers. Take each of the tests that you have done to date and
analyse every single question - see how long you took to crack the question - was it out of fluke you got it right? or you actually knew how to do it? Second, check out if you made use of the answer choices to arrive at your choice - if so pat yourself - you are on the right track.

Sometimes, it helps to have some very simple rules.My advice would be to crack only those problems where you can use the answer choice (like substituting them in the question) to arrive at the solution in the first instance. And after solving all of those questions where you can use the answer choice, if you are still left with time on hand, attempt the other questions.

Given all this logic - logical question does not fit in the first or the second go. If you still have time and the only question you have left unanswered is logical question, then try and solve them. To get sufficient practice, get one of the GRE books like Barrons. they have sufficient exercise on these type of arrangement problems.
Draw tables and try and represent whatever data is given to you in either tabular or pictorial form. It helps you to crack the problem effectively.


CAT GYAN #4

One of the key things to note is to have a strategy before you take a Mock CAT.

One thing that I have found to have worked for a lot of people is this.
Whether there is a section wise time limit or not, set a limit for yourself.This year CAT, as mentioned in the brochure, is one where there is going to be no section wise time limit.

So give yourself time limits for each section. Say, Quant 50 minutes, DI 40 minutes and Verbal 30 minutes. The individual section wise limit will vary from person to person. But the above is a reasonably good representative sample. Then attempt questions in each of these sections and move to the next section 5 minutes before the time limit that you have set. That is in 45 minutes for Quant, 35 for DI and 25 for Verbal. At the end of 1 hour 45 minutes take a quick evaluation as to how you have performed in each of the sections. If you feel, you have not done well in say,
DI, spend the remaining 15 minutes on DI. On the contrary, if you think you have done reasonably well in all three sections, spend the last 15 minutes on the section that will give you the maximum returns.

In all of these, keep one thing in mind. Maintain as much accuracy as possible in the first 1 hour 45 minutes. In the last 15 minutes, make intelligent guesses. For instance, if you can eliminate 2 out of the 4 answer choices and you are not sure which of the other two to tick, take an intelligent guess. This does not mean that you mark anything during the last 15 minutes. Remember, what I said was INTELLIGENT GUESSING and not random ticking.

I was browsing through my mail box,came across few mails I use to treasure as a CAT Aspirant.They were posted by Arun (Psychodementia,if i'm not mistaken?) in the CAT 2k2 group.

These mssgs were posted in June.Heck,jus 2 weeks to go,so I'm posting them here.
Series of CAT Gyan...6 of them.

CAT GYAN #1

When you take CAT, what makes a crucial difference in determining whether you
crack CAT and get into the IIM s or not is how quick you can attempt questions.

One of the key observations that might throw light on CAT cracking methodologies is that - in most cases students spend about 60% of the time in quant and DI section on calculations. If you can make a difference to your calculation speed, even if it is marginal, it will make a substantial difference to your getting into an IIM. After all people make it to the cut off by a margin of 0.25 marks.

We will intersperse our question a day with a fast calculation tip every now and then and about 5 exercise problems for each method. Practice speed calculation whenever you have to calculate anything. Engineers particularly,should try and throw their fx 100 calculators away, at least, for the time being. And commerce graduates do not go anywhere near your calculators for the next 6 months.

CAT GYAN #2

For those of you who are serious about CAT - I think its a 20 week race from this point. A small piece of advice from an old hat

1. Take a day off from your regular schedule this week and take a representative diagnostic test.

2. Check out where you stand -- identify your weak and strong points.

3. Start identifying ways to minimize the impact of your weak points - if its math - work out a chapter by chapter strategy and start cracking them systematically - remember the math in CAT is not one of rocket science. It is eminently crackable - only that it needs some hard and more importantly a lot of smart work.

4. For those of you with little or no reading experience - RC could come a cropper - start reading extensively from today - always carry a book with you - even if it is a thriller or a romantic Mills and Boon - read, read, read...

5. If you are still in college, it might be a good idea to form a small team of 2 to 3 like minded people and have a healthy competition. This small study circle will also help you share work load in cracking techniques in different chapters. While one could find out all short cuts in Percentages, the other person might be able to have the meanings and usages of common Latin and French words. Co-opetition is the latest management buzz word.

6. Unlike semester exams or month end sales targets, CAT needs sustained effort - so start today. It still is not too late. I started my preparation in late August 1991 - CAT was in the second sunday of December then. And I was working for L&T; at Ballard Estate in Bombay and staying in a Chummery acco in Malad (It is a 34 km one way travel everyday - roughly 3 hours in travel). And I managed calls from B, C and L. I could have worked harder - but then I suppose it was short sighted ambition. Do not let that happen to you. Do not come up with excuses such as -- semester exam, project work, no time -- if you have the determination to crack CAT, you will.

7. There are already over 10,000 excuses for not cracking CAT. May be you can add a few more. But remember, the only reason you will be into an IIM is because you badly wanted to be there.

8. Finally, if you do not believe that you have it in you to crack CAT, do not even attempt CAT. Believing that you can make it is the first step to getting there.

I wish you all success in your CAT exam. I hope this forum helps you in achieving your career dreams.

Chandoo.......I will try to sound different.......your post sucks big time !!

he he he just trying to be "different", "thoda hatke" as most hindi movie/music directors would say about their movies/songs.

You were the first guy I called when I knew the CAT results were out. And you know that you were the first (or the second depending on if Garfield's cell was busy ) I'd call up after each AIMCAT.

Dood, you are dedication, dilligence, perseverance .......... all the "good words in the dictionary" personified. You are the guy my mom would have wanted to exchange for me

Hell, infact even if you didn't go for an MBA, I would still think you are a winner.

Arun

PS: BTW Channe ke jhaadh pe chad gaya toh uttar ja bete.............

Hi Chandoo!!

Urs was a really enlightening one.
Today people sign up fo r cat just for a whim or fancy.ur post has shown that it takes real slog to get to the top. wishing u all the very best for ur future.
when nothing works remember that cat is not life !!!

Hi Chandoo! after reading all those praises and hearing so much from others abt your experience me too decide to check it out today...

It was a marvel :smilecol: the way you went about :snipersm: for CAT.

Your experience is hell affa guide for us : s

Me will definitely try and follow ur advice . But right now (these couple of days) I am .

Keep up the good work as a mod and me hoping that you get to the best of IIMs .

What was that !!!

I always felt that that I had done quite a lot of preparation for CAT.But Chandoo makes me feel as if my preparation was peanuts in front of him . 50 Mock CATs.... never thought of so many...

Its really a mind booster. Had read a lot of such articles previously (Article ???couldn't find another name for it..) but this was different in the sense that it was written by a person who was involved rather than a 3rd person just giving tips on how to crack CAT.

Great repository for those giving CAT 2004 , particularly for picking up small-small ideas that make big difference later on.

Chandoo , please post your CAT result (Percentile break up section wise) , no. of calls received , and an analysis (if possible) to complete this article.....

For other members who believe in doing it in those 2 hours , I accept that everyone has got his own way of doing it best. But I feel that it is better to be prepared (Though the level of preparation varies ). Anyway Would love read your experiences of belling CAT on the first shot.

good post chandoo .. i read thru the whole of it .. was really interesting!
as for preparing, i guess a little bit of it is necessary to fine-tune some topics and formulating some strategy after identifying ur weaknesses and working on them
if you have no weakness as such so far as CAT pattern is concerned then no prep may help

one point i wd like to add here.. prep for me was givng 20 tests seriously and analysing them.. so i am not sure which category i fit into.. but yeah being mentally prepared for something does not mean that it is not the real u who cracked something.. being mentally prepared is something one shd always try to do... of course.. life will try to derail that prep

in some ways , Rajesh is right . I know quite a few people who got calls ( some of them even multiple calls ) , without any serious preparation . But I stand by my opinion that the best way to crack CAT is by preparing well and taking a lot of tests . Agreed , quite a few people may have done well without preparation , but Im pretty sure that the number of such people among the total no. of people getting calls is a small fraction . Sure , things like luck and mental- toughness do have a very significant role to play . But without a strong foundation and solid practise , most people will find themselves directionless on C-day .
So as Navjot Singh Sidhu would say , " BETTER TO PREVENT AND PREPARE , THAN REPENT AND REPAIR " .

Nikhil

Ah! "To Prepare or Not to Prepare"! Well guys can vouchsafe for Rajesh a.k.a "Life and Nothing more" cos he is my college mate and knew how "serious" he was for CAT But the point is Rajesh your case is an exception...it's an irrefutable fact that more than IQ luck also plays a major part on the D-day...things have to click irrespective of your preparation or lack of it....so d00d exceptions don't make the rule..in fact it seldom does!;) Though one may "have it in him/her" preparation always helps. Just my 2p.

Well!
That was a terrific post Chandoo.....
But..er........that raises the BIGGEST question!
Is it really necessary to prepare for CAT?
Am no kidding here guys.......
Its been my belief that CAT is just an aptitude test and it requires no preparation!

All CAT does is test your 'basic' language and analytical skills.A majority of us would be able to answer most of the questions if given infinite time.So CAT just puts one under 'pressure' because you have 150 questions to answer in 120 mins.In a way,CAT just simulates the working condition one might face when he/she becomes a manager.So CAT does nothing but assess an individual's potential to work as a manager!So why prepare for it?

Again,look what happens when you prepare....(There are people who prepare for 2 years or even more!Please!Am not trying to demean their efforts in anyway!).......When you prepare for an aptitude test like CAT,you are continuously pushing youself to become something that you are actually not. You might even crack CAT.......but believe me!its not the 'real you' who has cracked it......you may not be able to reproduce such a result at all times!For those 2 hours you had 2 years of preparation.......you WILL NOT have 2 years to prepare for every two hours in your work as a manager!Preparation can only create a pseudo-aptitude to crack CAT on that day.....nothing more!It infact spoils the chance to assess ones 'real' aptitude!

So.......DONT PREPARE!

Btw,..... I got calls from ACLIK.........n i did not prepare for CAT.Absolutely nothing more than the 2 hours i spent taking the test.

Well!I would love to read the responses!

Rajesh

Hi Ppl
My exp has some sililarity and a little difference from Chandoo's
CAT 2002
Around 4 months of prep and quite a few simcats,flopped CAT,only SPJain call and flopped that big time.
In the meantime ,got placed in campus took the job up.
CAT 2003
Prep for Nov23 CAT - Absolutely NONE
Prep for Feb15 CAT - Nov23 CAT
And Result time - ABC
Preparation is a part of cracking CAT but the most important thing to cracking CAT is to perform at your absolute best for just 2 hours on the appointed day and not crack under pressure.
For CAT2004 aspirants - Prepare as hard as you can but dont over do it.sometime too much of some thing is also as bad as too little of it.

BrainOverflow

This was definitely one of the better posts at PG. Congrats Chandoo...more for your spirit to fight back in 2003 than for the admit per se! And abt your "poor English" because of a vernacular background - dont worry too much about it. I know someone who studied (upto graduation) in Hindi medium but works as an accent trainer in English! (She teaches new joinees to speak correct English with an American accent so that customers can feel at ease when talking to them) at a call center. So if they can do it, you can too - maybe with time and effort.

Afterall everybody knows "Dont mock ppl who speak broken English. It means they know another language".

Good luck!

heyyyy chandoo...gr888 post re...very meticulously mentioned...

m in da same shoes as u were after CAT'02...no IIM calls...just MDI..(m sure aint getting the final call)...no job on hand..tensed...anguished..

but ur post has rejuvenated me...first thing....i gotta find a decent job...

thxx chandoo...once again...gr888 post!!

well, while Chandoo has done a wonderful job in describing his experience which has a lot to learn from, its important that the CAT'04 givers learn to experiment and make their own strategies...and yes, this happens when u give lots and lots of mock CATs as chandoo mentioned.
try solving the paper in a different style each time and practice on the style that maximises ur score...i'll post more on that soon.

bow.