FT - Global MBA Rankings - 2007

[inblue]

Kgkid, Thanks for that post. I did miss out on it a little.

I agree a some funding should come by that Ivy league badge. But as you say Duke, Ross are great schools even without a badge. This tempts me to share a very constructive argument I had with a friend ( 2008 applicant) after each of us visited Stanford. I know I am kind a shifting the focus of the thread away from ranking but anyway.

What amazed me and my friend equally about Stanford is the lack of * their* own infrastrcuture( as compared to other top schools). That left us wondering as to what such a top school was doing with all fees that its has been charging its people in the past n number of years and then we realised that what Stanford has been publishing on its brochures and in their ppts is the University's infrastructure - the Gothic archs and the Oval and the Hoover tower etc.. ( this is back when Phil Kinght had not announced the 105 million $ grant and the new building and plans wasn't commissioned etc )

So now back to the money equation of schools - This is what me and my friend concluded.


1. Top schools - Harvard, Wharton atleast have extremely successful Publishing houses. The royality and the revanue there from is too high to ignore.

2. Faculty consulting, Teaching methods - Harvard, Wharton are successfull business in itself. The faculty earns the school a lot in royatly over their theories and consulting. To cite an example - Robert. S . Kaplan and The Balanced Scorecard Appoach. ( Boy ! every oother company wants to implement it now ) Imagine the money Harvard must have made from it. There should have been too many theories like this the past multiple decades. Wharton licenses its teaching software ( the experimental ones) to a good number of businesss schools.

3. Endownment and Faculty pay- I agree to an extent, but only as far as non sponsored ones. A handsome number of schools have a lot of faculty who are paid in part by the Company/Organizations sponsoring that particular position. Sears Roebuck Professor of ___ Reliance professor of __ ( this applies to the Wharton Dean ). Needless to say, everyone wants to sponsor positions at top schools.

Essentially, top b-schools have multiple sources of income and they keep investing these to generate more revenue for themselves. Apparently, not many schools do this - Run as enterprises in themselves.

Yes endownmnet in case of Yale from its Ivy League status would make complete sense at present in Yale upward rank trajectory. Like Suise already said. They'd rahter get some biggie to name their school after. After all they are one of the handful non tagged schools apart from Stanford GSB, Columbia GSB , HBS and Chicago GSB.

[iday]

Okie - i mentioned the Ivey league status only coz of two reasons:

1. The time the University has been in the education business. When u've been in the business so long, u have the experience and u need to know how to do things You know, the advantage if having been a do-er and not a see-er. That is why i also mentioned the years the university and the schools were started.

2. The endowments as kgkid pointed out.

Apart from these two, i dont see any advantage Actually i believe Yale's higher rank in FT rankings could also be because of these endowments, coz FT ranking includes that as a factor as well (Alumni participation).

[Superguy]

Funny to see no Indian B-skool up there...this shows a lot about where our Education System stands...time for IIM's, ISB's to come out of shell.

[CATullus]

School Name Endowment ($ millions) Endowment per student ($ 000)
1 Harvard Business School 1100 628

2 MIT: Sloan 402 560

3 Stanford University GSB 387 530

4 Northwestern University: Kellogg 380 152

5 University of Pennsylvania: Wharton 338 216

6 Michigan 267 138

7 Virginia: Darden 255 523

7 Yale 255 607

9 University of Chicago GSB 207 87

10Dartmouth College: Tuck 167 420

School Name # of Fortune 200 CEO’s
1 Harvard Business School 20
2 MIT: Sloan 5
3 Stanford University GSB 4
3 Columbia University GSB 4
3 University of Chicago GSB 4
6 NYU: Stern 3
7 Northwestern University: Kellogg 2
7 University of Virginia: Darden 2
7 Emory: Goizueta 2
7 Indiana University: Kelley 2
7 University of Texas: McCombs 2

The endoments for Yale are pretty good. And one thing is the school ranking is immaterial as far as know..Because I dont prefer huge un connected community and dont prefer chicago and would go to hanover or durham for that matter..After all every one goes to school for money and may be 5% go to do something great for society..

The faculty and alumni are the best people and as each school gets its Great Faculty and Great Alumni its reputation goes up..

Its mutual..If u have the best faculty u attract the best students..and so the cycle continues..So if yale can attract some more good profs who can do some publishing and research and put the school name on various banners..It is definetly going to make it to top as The Yale LAW schhol, Which is a great school..

OfCourse..Marketing...Harvard may not advertise on BW forums..But the marketing comes thru its faculty publications and its alumni becoming presidents..

After all schools absorb sons of great people more easily than a IT or Math wiz kid from India (I know many people dont agree..Just my feeling..)

[purple yogi]

Originally Posted by iday

I am not saying Yale is good or bad - but Yale is an Ivy league school. The simplest conclusion i can come up from this is that the university has history and that something u expect from a Ivy league school. I came to know of Yale's Ivy league badge after i visited the website, read their figures and did my investigation and i was like "What?!?! Is this Ivy league???"

Agreed this is the youngest Ivy league business school (the next youngest being cornell, set up 30 yrs before yale) but the university has history (of 300+ years) and they shud have brought it into the school. Actually, Yale University is the second oldest of all Ivy league universities - Harvard being the oldest.

For all facts - check this link

I've investigated at least 20 different schools and i am sure Yale is not top 10. Again, it might be the best school for some folks (great non-profit program) - but we are speaking in general terms here and when someone considers the "overall" program, Yale sure is not top 10.

Susie spoke abt chicago GSB being unheard of in the prev decade - the fact applies only to chicago GSBs global visibility. This (along with many other aspects of the program itself) has increased vastly over the past few years. Inside US, chicago gsb enjoyed the same level of respect from the business fraternity

There might be many schools which fit into this kind of a story. there are 950+ schools in US and all of us put together will hardly know 50 schools i can only speak abt chicago coz i've been reading a lot abt the school off late, for the obvious reasons

Dude, come on u dint know that Yale is IVY league. Here is my take:

Backing of the University- It really does matter. Yale university is one of the best in the world, and where ever you go to YALE sells and wit will sell. Same goes for Oxford 900 years of histroy is unbeatable. The unviersity does attract a lot of talent which potentially beocmes - funding sources and future applicants of the business school. There are a lot of connections with the university and the business school. i was feeling that about oxford as i am joining it but on researching i realized that 34 college option Said Business school gives for Oxford are right up there when you do the rankings. The clear advantages are meeting people from other backgrounds and stroug alumni in the country as oxford and india have very strong ties. A full time life membership to a college at Oxford is very sweet . Really big names have gone to oxford from India.

Right Fit is also very critical for every person, and everyone will not go every school. Fitting in the right culture is extremly important...

And dont forget John Harvard, whose name Harvard is after when to Cambridge...and realized that US needs universities like oxford and Cambridge...

Rock on..

PY

[gdhiman]

Originally Posted by Superguy

Funny to see no Indian B-skool up there...this shows a lot about where our Education System stands...time for IIM's, ISB's to come out of shell.

That will not happen until we have more international faculty, and mroe international students making the class profile.

to afford international faculty, the cost of education will go up in IIM which the government will never allow.!

So for IIM to reach the list, it is a lot of work and open minded thinking required by government. ISB is way too young to be anywhere close to that.

[iday]

Originally Posted by purple yogi

Dude, come on u dint know that Yale is IVY league.

no no no u got it wrong.
i said i came to know of yale's Ivy league status after i investigated about the school. it doesnt mean i came to know of it only now all this is a year back, when i was investigating about a bunch of schools i had shortlisted.

[kgkid]

Originally Posted by purple yogi

Dude, come on u dint know that Yale is IVY league. Here is my take:

Backing of the University- It really does matter. Yale university is one of the best in the world, and where ever you go to YALE sells and wit will sell. Same goes for Oxford 900 years of histroy is unbeatable. The unviersity does attract a lot of talent which potentially beocmes - funding sources and future applicants of the business school. There are a lot of connections with the university and the business school. i was feeling that about oxford as i am joining it but on researching i realized that 34 college option Said Business school gives for Oxford are right up there when you do the rankings. The clear advantages are meeting people from other backgrounds and stroug alumni in the country as oxford and india have very strong ties. A full time life membership to a college at Oxford is very sweet . Really big names have gone to oxford from India.

Right Fit is also very critical for every person, and everyone will not go every school. Fitting in the right culture is extremly important...

And dont forget John Harvard, whose name Harvard is after when to Cambridge...and realized that US needs universities like oxford and Cambridge...

Rock on..

PY

Yale University "has" a great public policy school and an outstanding LAW school.
But, the school of management is far away from being called a distinguished school in traditional MBA exit options (i agree it is a good non-profit school). A nice analogy would be doing an MBA from IITs. Sure IITs have name but are they as good in "MBA"?
Hence, you can get nice stares and couple of dates out of saying you are a "yale grad" but getting a recruiter would be a whole different story altogether.

However, these are my observation as of today. But, 5 years from now it might be different. Yale *might* have distinguished itself then as a solid management school. But, i am more interested in 2 years from now. Infact, spring 2008 when i need the internship.

[cracked-it]

Originally Posted by gdhiman

That will not happen until we have more international faculty, and mroe international students making the class profile.

to afford international faculty, the cost of education will go up in IIM which the government will never allow.!

So for IIM to reach the list, it is a lot of work and open minded thinking required by government. ISB is way too young to be anywhere close to that.

ISB is waiting to complete 7 yrs so that it gets accredited, after which, it would heavily pump in money to go truely international.

[nixbert]

Call it patriotism if you want but ISB is one school for which I have high expectations.

I've spent around three weeks over past two months at ISB campus and i was completely bowled over by the sheer energy and enthusiasm over there. I am sure that with time ISB is going to be one of the leading global schools!