FT - Global MBA Rankings - 2007

[Susie Derkins]

Originally Posted by nixbert

What is the basis of your assertion that made a mess of its program? Care to point us less enlightened souls to some resources/links?

Ok.. Sorry about that.. It does have a strong non-profit program.. but err... tell me again, what's the competition in that category?

Frankly, I was thinking of Cornell/Yale as my back-up - since I really wanted to attend school this year. Finally applied to Cornell (got dinged there!). Didn't apply to Yale since I got to know of the deferred admits and how all this will lead to a few more notches ahead in some lame rankings next yr since fewer will get accepted this yr. OK.. I've digressed... anyway... look at the quality of the students at Yale SOM. I'll wait for 3-4 yrs and see what wonders Yale SOM MBAs do.

It's more than a new syllabus that improves a school.. it's the opportunities and respect you get in the corporate world. It'll take a while for Yale to get there. Sure it can easily carve a niche for itself for some government policy program that only Americans will attend. Other than that, I don't see it becoming strong overall unless they hire a Harvard dean, do hell of a lot of marketing, hire some real thought leaders to teach, get someone to name the school after, use that money to hire world renowned faculty, magically get the best corporates to hire on campus and pay the students $300k average.

[nixbert]

Originally Posted by Incarnation

Yes, Yale'e new curriculm looks attractive and Yale is taking steps to improve its image...But we must realize that it takes time to build a brand and we wd expecting too much if we put Yale SOM ahead of MIT Sloans, Kelloggs, Ross and Dukes of the world...I think it wd take more than just 3-4 years for Yale SOM to be talked about in the same breath as some of the other schools...The other schools have bigger alumni base, excellent reputation, brand etc...Yale SOM is definitely not going to be a top 10 global school even in the next 5-6 years.....But as Iday rightly said, it eventually boils down to 'fit'...These rankings shd be taken with a pinch of salt....If I love a school, I wd definitely choose it over some of the other higher ranked schools...My 2 cents..

Completely agree to every word you are saying !!

However I was specificaly replying to Susie's statement - "Yale has made a total mess of its MBA program".

i dont think there is enough data to support that .... yet!

[nixbert]

Originally Posted by Susie Derkins

Other than that, I don't see it becoming strong overall unless they hire a Harvard dean, do hell of a lot of marketing, hire some real thought leaders to teach, get someone to name the school after, use that money to hire world renowned faculty, magically get the best corporates to hire on campus and pay the students $300k average.

LOL!!
this is spooky! Read following text about Joel Podolny (Dean, Yale SOM)

"Prior to Yale SOM, Podolny was professor and director of research at Harvard Business School and professor of sociology in the Harvard Faculty of Arts and Sciences. He also spent 11 years on the faculty of the Stanford Graduate School of Business, where he also served as senior associate dean of academic affairs and was head of the school's organizational behavior group."

The spookiness index rises several notches up next:

"He lost no time in raiding one of his former employers, hiring Stanford's star professor James Baron to join the Yale faculty. He has also been out on the stump, raising more than $105 million toward a $300 million goal in a capital campaign that, among other things, will fund a 230,000-square-foot campus for the management school."

I also know that Frank Fabozzi is another such dude, a very respected guy in the field of fixed income securities. (i've personally benefited a lot from his 'handbook of fixed income securities')

So

Harvard Dean - Check
Star Faculty - Check
Raise Fund - Check
Best corporate to hire on campus ...(contd) - Check (i think they already do)
..which pay students 300k$ - Fail (but dont think other schools fair v well on this count either)

Susie - Have you thought of a career in helping a school rise up rankings

[Susie Derkins]

Originally Posted by nixbert

LOL!!
this is spooky! <snip>
Susie - Have you thought of a career in helping a school rise up rankings

That sure was funny

Yale needs time and luck. I've heard that Chicago GSB was unheard of 10-15 yrs back. Look where it is now. So yes, maybe someday Yale will have a great program. As of today, it surely isn't No.10 and so FT rankings shouldn't be taken seriously.

[Incarnation]

Originally Posted by nixbert

LOL!!
this is spooky! Read following text about Joel Podolny (Dean, Yale SOM)

"Prior to Yale SOM, Podolny was professor and director of research at Harvard Business School and professor of sociology in the Harvard Faculty of Arts and Sciences. He also spent 11 years on the faculty of the Stanford Graduate School of Business, where he also served as senior associate dean of academic affairs and was head of the school's organizational behavior group."

The spookiness index rises several notches up next:

"He lost no time in raiding one of his former employers, hiring Stanford's star professor James Baron to join the Yale faculty. He has also been out on the stump, raising more than $105 million toward a $300 million goal in a capital campaign that, among other things, will fund a 230,000-square-foot campus for the management school."

I also know that Frank Fabozzi is another such dude, a very respected guy in the field of fixed income securities. (i've personally benefited a lot from his 'handbook of fixed income securities')

So

Harvard Dean - Check
Star Faculty - Check
Raise Fund - Check
Best corporate to hire on campus ...(contd) - Check (i think they already do)
..which pay students 300k$ - Fail (but dont think other schools fair v well on this count either)

Susie - Have you thought of a career in helping a school rise up rankings

Frank Fabozzi is surely a big shot in the investment management field.....and so is another Yale professor-Ibbotson....And if u r considering investment management career-then being in Connecticut(which is the hub of hedge funds and mutual funds)-does give u a lot of advantage in networking....I like ur research on Yale...

And all this tells me that u r most probably not an IT guy....whats ur background....I m sure that i am close enough to finding a guy who has simlar background and interests as mine....

[iday]

I am not saying Yale is good or bad - but Yale is an Ivy league school. The simplest conclusion i can come up from this is that the university has history and that something u expect from a Ivy league school. I came to know of Yale's Ivy league badge after i visited the website, read their figures and did my investigation and i was like "What?!?! Is this Ivy league???"

Agreed this is the youngest Ivy league business school (the next youngest being cornell, set up 30 yrs before yale) but the university has history (of 300+ years) and they shud have brought it into the school. Actually, Yale University is the second oldest of all Ivy league universities - Harvard being the oldest.

For all facts - check this link

I've investigated at least 20 different schools and i am sure Yale is not top 10. Again, it might be the best school for some folks (great non-profit program) - but we are speaking in general terms here and when someone considers the "overall" program, Yale sure is not top 10.

Susie spoke abt chicago GSB being unheard of in the prev decade - the fact applies only to chicago GSBs global visibility. This (along with many other aspects of the program itself) has increased vastly over the past few years. Inside US, chicago gsb enjoyed the same level of respect from the business fraternity

There might be many schools which fit into this kind of a story. there are 950+ schools in US and all of us put together will hardly know 50 schools i can only speak abt chicago coz i've been reading a lot abt the school off late, for the obvious reasons

[nixbert]

Originally Posted by Incarnation

And all this tells me that u r most probably not an IT guy....whats ur background....

Sorry to disappoint you but I do have an IT background! You may have been led to believe otherwise because of my comments on fabozzi !! Well that is because I've worked for over four years in interest-rate derivative settlements as well as fixed income securities systems and operations. Most of it was on my consulting assignment with a fortune 100 IB in London. So i know a bit about IB operations and related lingo. Of late I have taken more of a biz analyst role than something related to hands-on development/implementation.

Originally Posted by Incarnation

I m sure that i am close enough to finding a guy who has simlar background and interests as mine....

Well we can't tell until you tell me more about yourself!
In any case it cannot possibly hurt to compare notes.
I applied to insead, yale and ross this year in R2. I've recvd ding from insead and i am not v hopeful about ross and yale either! So I am targeting an admit in fall '08.

[Susie Derkins]

Ivy League started as some undergrad sports academy but grew to signify a set of 7-8 universities that stood for quality education. But that doesn't mean that the stuff they offer is the best. For eg. Penn State / U of Michigan have better engineering schools than Yale... Anyway, the point is it's stupid to look at the parent university.. one must look at the school/department. Yale/Cornell really don't have great graduate business schools though they are Ivy League universities. It's also quite evident with the application essays!

[inblue]

Does Ivy league matter when we are talking to Graduate Business Schools ? Doesn't the Ivy league badge apply only to undergrad ? AFAIK, this badge has very very less to do with business school/ graduate school.

Ok, now even if we are talking of the *Ivy League University* perspective- how much does that matter anyway ? Aren't most business schools more influnced by its governing board /board of overseers than by university itself. Then it makes sense that a School will rise , change , improve and leap up the ranking list more from the direction of its recruiters, its board and its dean.

[kgkid]

Originally Posted by inblue

Does Ivy league matter when we are talking to Graduate Business Schools ? Doesn't the Ivy league badge apply only to undergrad ? AFAIK, this badge has very very less to do with business school/ graduate school.

Ok, now even if we are talking of the *Ivy League University* perspective- how much does that matter anyway ? Aren't most business schools more influnced by its governing board /board of overseers than by university itself. Then it makes sense that a School will rise , change , improve and leap up the ranking list more from the direction of its recruiters, its board and its dean.

You are right. But, you are a little misinformed. Ivy League status of a university helps the funding for the university in general and hence, the endowment for research activities. Since, endowment improves you can pay your professors better. Problem with Yale was focus and not the quality of education. They have recently raked in Harvard and Stanford professors. Why? because the new dean is very keen on making it a top 10. Believe me, itz ivy league alumni and funding would seriously help it. Whereas universities such as Emory can struggle to be a top tier, Yale does have the potential.

On a different note, Stanford University, Duke University, and University of Michigan are not ivy leagues but share a excellent pedigree in the US.